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"Brotherhood"...did SOE not get the memo...females play Vanguard too.
Teala
Member RarePosts: 7,627
Not trying to start a big bruhaha or seem to come across as a feminazi or something, but isn't the term "Brotherhood" kinda the wrong word to be using in place of the Fellowship system? I dunno about any of the other females that play Vanguard but this kinda strikes me as being considered a second class person to males of our species by SOE/Sigil. Again...I'm not some feminist nut case I'm just little average Jill gamer here OK. Surely SOE realizes that this word is seriously the wrong word to be used in this instance.
To the guys that play Vangaurd, how would you feel if it turned around and it was called "sisterhood" - hehehe do you think it would be appropriate? I mean in my mind sisterhood looks and sounds better then brotherhood so what would be wrong with sisterhood?
Any other females feel a bit bothered by this term brotherhood?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
SOE dont like to listen to their community so no matter how many mistakes they make they will carry on "cough" SWG
As for the brotherhood contension.... most games are male centric these days, the influx of female players has been a recent, but nice addition to player communitys. u go girl and take the Devs to the cleaners
Save a Tree.... Eat a Beaver
I saw your same post on the official (seems odd to think they have those now) Vanguard forums.
As to something that was said there and you replied to. I hear the term "fellow" weekly and perhaps even daily. Such as "he is an odd fellow". So in much of the world or at least in many circles the term "fellow" is still related to males.
That was in regards to the person over on the Official forums that asked you why fellowship would be ok. If you've never heard the word in these modern times used to describe a male.. I guess I can understand your point of view. I'm in my late 30's.. live near a major US city .. and I hear the word still used and commonly used.
Anyway...
I would imagine them renaming the system is more in regards to lotro and trying to distance themself from terms used in that game. Obviously I could be wrong...
As to the term sistership.. no I wouldn't care if that's what they called a group. Then again why not just call them groups?
Beyond that I think most people that work on high fantasy games .. equate them to being in the dark ages one way or another. In those times terms such as "brothers in arms" etc were quite common.
I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. Just when I log into an MMO.. more or less I am looking to escape discussions about things "real".
and to end my ramble.. I would probably be happier if they just kept calling groups.. groups and raids .. raids.
Logging in to find fellowships.. kinships... and whatever other new term various mmo's apply... seems rather pointless. There are better ways to innovate games .. than renaming things that don't really need a new name. (oh plus I think group was at least gender neutral).
Iwinbutton.com | Gaming / MMO Blog
dictionary.reference.com/browse/fellowship
dictionary.reference.com/browse/brotherhood
Contrast the two, and draw your own conclusions. For those that think it is ridiculous to complain about, I propose SOE call them...
A sisterhood.
Yeah, didn't think you would like that.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Puts head down, and shakes it.....
It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with SoE.... vangaurd, or Sigil, or the female employees of Sigil...
SoE/Sigil/EA/Mythic/WolfPack/Blizzard *insert game development team here* / when publishing in english, the language you're reading now ( butchered as best i can ) , uses terms, dictation and language flow native to that language. incase you have missed it, the generalisation of male-pronouns as general pronouns was precidence ALONG time ago.. Oh prolly about the same time people were inventing a written language.... It's part of the language, thats why. brotherhood is not a male only term, it's a generalised male-pronoun and was in use long before computers ever went " beep. "
Sorry, just annoying when topics like this arise, as it has NOTHING to do with sexism, as Sigil/SoE did not invent the english language.. Thank God, i'd hate to see the N.E.E. ( New English Experience. )
As far as the use of " sisterhood " is concerened, the conatation is exactly the same. they would mean the exact same thing, except swapped a femal pronoun instead of the proper use of the male pronoun. Call it a sisterhood, and anyone who gets offended is being just as silly as anyone offended by " brotherhood. "
I personally don't really care what groups or guilds are called... if you wanna call them 'sisterhoods', fine. If you wanna call them kinships, fine. If you wanna call them sects... well, you get the idea, it's fine. It's just an abstarct term for a game mechanic anyhow. As a male I play a few female toons, so whats the difference anyhow?
I think you misjudge most male players reaction to this kinda stuff as well... the PnP D&D rulebooks have refered to all gender specifics in the female since the launch of 3rd edition. Most players don't even notice it now.
I guess Brotherhood makes more sense then Sisterhood due to the overwhelming majority of male gamers.
Tbh, this is all being a litle oversensitive imo. VG has a lot bigger issues then this to worry about hehe.
They aren't sexist, i'm not sexist, and calling a group a brotherhood isn't sexist. But if you're going to nit pick and be all anal about political correctness then you shouldn't even bother playing video games in the first place. And this isn't targeted at the OP, since she says herself she isn't one of those she-devil man hating woman power girls, but rather just a rant in general.
Iwinbutton.com | Gaming / MMO Blog
alliance, association, clan, clique, club, community, comradeship, coterie, fellowship, fraternity, guild, league, order, secret society, society, sodality, union
There are many, many more synonyms... I'll leave you to your inept justifications that you pull out of your hat.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Wow...I'm sorry. Sheeesh...I guess I really should have kept my mouth shut. I apologize, seriously, I didn't think this would cause such a huge uproar and that was not my intent. My bad. I am sorry I offended people by saying anything about this.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I don't think anyone was offended by your query.. Just you're picking a fight with the wrong people, the language precidence wasn't SoE's call.
I thought about this for a while and here's my conclusion....
What they name their "brotherhood" or "fellowship" is the least of Vanguard's problems.
Many fantasy games seem to be based around similar themes of English Imperial Reign. You have castles, knights, damsels in distress, kings, and real smelly animals. This was a male driven society, hence the term "Brotherhood" being used.
If you remove the term "Brotherhood" you ruin part of games immersion. Joining a GROUP is very stagnate and takes away from the games mythical atmosphere.
As for the term fellowship please see a dictionary for the root word. Fellow is defined as a man or boy. This is a very masculine term. Plus I think the folks over at LotR may take issue also. Clanship may be a better used term to use. It seems to be a neutral term.
I know the society we live in is very PC oriented, but this is a RPG. Though I realize that role playing is a smaller percentage of the community, it is an aspect that gets overlooked in MMORPG. I do not identify as an RPer, but I can still immerse myself in a game with lore and history. Remember it is a fantasy game.
If you feel strongly about this I wish you luck in your pursuit. I make no excuse for the developers because they could have caught this internally. Try not to judge them too harshly because they are trying to make a game that many people will enjoy.
all I can say about this subject is..
LOL
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Oh please get over SWG. They have said several times they regret the things they did back then and they learned from it. Have you seen them do that again? No. Have they gotten better? Yes.
EQ2 is proof that they do listen. SWG was old hat before NGE and SWG is also run by LA, not SoE.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
I do have to agree with you though on this. Thought the same thing when they changed the name. There are ALOT of female players in vg.
Winterose-Thunderaxe
When logic fails...
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I'm just happy the O.P. lives a good enough life that they have the time to worry about the gender excluding term of brotherhood.
Me ? i have other stuff to worry about, like feeding family, taxes, meeting payroll, that i don't get the opritunity to be offended by what i percieve a word to mean.
So to the O.P. ; keep doing what you're doing, and stop to smell a rose for me will ya ?
I said i don't have time to worry myself over what i percieve a word to mean, that instead i worry about things with a much more direct impact on my life, than what i percieve a word to mean.
I didn't make any personal attacks to you, nor did i even attempt to slight you in the least, though i disagree with your opinion regaurding the word ' brotherhood ' so please, atleast take some time to recipricate that, thanks. And again, i'm glad your life is rosey enough that you can worry about the percieved meaning of the word, others have bigger things to worry about.
EDIT : Now, if you'd like to take that another step into a more focused application, like in reguards to the game it'self ; It's good your not having bugs or performance issues, and that this is something that annoys you, as every other part of VG is playing out smoothly for you. Like previously stated, if thats the case for you, then excellent.
I'm sure this all comes down to a persons OP. To me Fellow and Brother sounded the same. Brotherhood was a diffrent way or saying fellowship. Now the term Sisterhood is a term only used for women
Whats with the hostility ?
Why do you not undertsand, that i find the issue dismissive, in relation to bigger concerns ? If you'll take a moment to read the EDIT : where i redirect this to game issues specificly, then you'll ( hopefully ) take notice im genuinly glad you're not having bigger issues with the game it'self.
Think that proves my point well enough. Yeah, discrimination is a bad thing, but calling something brotherhood instead of fellowship is such a silly detail, it simply does not deserve such attention. If you would like to fight discrimination start with something more offending, not something ridiculous like this. Talking about why Lara Croft is so popular, and talking about women models being close to nude makes more sense than this, methinks.
But then again, we (the male populus) are not the only ones to blame for this. I mean sure, in this consumer driven society it's only natural that women appear semi-naked everywhere, for that is what us males (presumably) want to see all the time. But step back a second and think about all the ass-shaking, boobie-showing RnB and Rap female stars who are more than happy to show their body as they would a product. This discussion is a double edged sword, for we men are not the sole reason why women appear half-nude on MTV and in games all the times, it's part of the new american pop culture I guess, led by brainless yet successful women like little miss Hilton, Britney and Lindsay.