Why do people say LOTRO has no PvP? Because it really doesn't. Turbine stated that id didn't "fit in" to LOTR lore and had no place. They wouldn't allow an evil race to be playable because it didn't fit in with the lore and had no place. However, they have given you a psuedo PvP wherein you can inhabit the body of a "monster" and gain destiny points and get stronger gaining gear and equipment. Yes, I remember that part in the books where they possessed a Monster. Thats a part of the lore for sure. The reality is this, when Turbine announced the title, the legions that flocked to their community forums were they exact type of you might expect. they openly despise PvP, and go into a siezure at the very thought of griefing. They equate griefing with PvP. They equate imbalance to PvP, they equate Free for all massacres to PvP. It's either black or white. The numbers opposing PvP of ANY sort were overhwlming.. at first. Turbine had already decided not to implement Pvp Of ANY sort- well before Monster play. This labeled the game a care bear title and folks who are of an extremeist perspective and despise PvP came in droves and literally defined the community. As the title became more visibile in the marketplace and news began spreading like wildfire on it's development, it opened up to the actual MAINSTREAM audience of gamers. And we are a diverse community. I remember the threads on the forums (I was a beta player since last August.) and it was one of the most unpleseant environments imaginable. Those who appreciate PvP in some form, be it the old DAoC battlegrounds type, or the Arena type of WoW, or the objective based PvP, faction based PvP, anyone who spoke in support of there being some type of PvP was immediately deemed a psycho-dereanged-you-step-on-baby-kittens-lunatic-teenager. The mere mention or thread title stating "no PvP?" sent the community into attack mode... and I mean viciously. Who would have thought that a community comprised mostly of passifists would be so... I imagine you see the irony here. However, the threads continued as the community grew and turbine said "Oh crap, the attack hounds can't keep out EVERYONE who wants diversity, and since we only have four playable classes, limited character customization and limited class choices, we better do something and QUICK!" Enter Monster Play. Yes it sounds like a Saturday Morning cartoon, and it enraged the passifist community who accused Turbine of bowing to the "frantic" demands of a minority. The minority they spoke of was still arriving by the hundreds, threads appearing, and consequently locked daily. Turbine tried to make everyone happy by intituting a different type of PvP, totally breaking their previous sternly made excuses of "lore" and "history" and brought in this non-spontaneous, really kinda dumbed down type of PvP, that isn't really PvP at all, but an off brand. Many like it however, that is just my personal opinion of it, I apologize in advance if it sounds like I'm generalizing. Not my intention. I myself am an avid RP'er, but I also am able to enjoy the element of PvP in a conditional environment, such as WoW with contested territories, or DaoC when they had a open battleground. I have never EVER liked Free-For-ALL PvP, in my opinion thats asking for griefing and the primary reason I left L2. My preference is the freedom to choose my experience and have self made goals, be they PvP or PvE. Removing myself from my static Avatar to be a monster breaks the fluidity of the experience for me and detaches me from the game entirely. Turbine understands their demographic is primarily fans of the series and storytellers/RP'ers/PvE'ers. They have set aside a small corner of their system for those who prefer a diverse experience, no matter how strange or whatever.
Im ehmm..sorry but I do not understand this..This is not PvP..???!!!?? I think this is all in your imagination or your view how PvP must be setup..Myself i see no diffrence in this PvP compared to DAOC RvR ..
Just because Turbine once said they will never have PvP and the outcome was PvMP for various reasons doesnt make it less PvP..Its full fledged PvP with one minor diffrence you do not have to level the dark side..I think it's a brilliant idea and as it stands it gives us one more little hobby to do when bored, fine tune your "bad guy"
The diffrence i see however is that it isnt even close to balanced (1VS1) and that is intended...I picture it like Turbine's intention was that the monster side has to rely on masses while the Free people comes in small groups, any Freep can atleast take out 2-3 monsters or atleast stand up to 2 without problems..The skills we monsters has are very limited(even when upgraded) when compared to Freeps that has a varity of skills atleast 2-3 times as many..As a spider for instance I have One melee attack, one DOT, one Root, and one entrencement skill..Thats it.and if i upgrade i can get one more enrancement ability at rank 0.
PvP = Player vs player. hmmmm that means fighting against another real live person vs fighting against the computers AI. Darn !, I guess fighting against a monster controlled by a real live person is PvP. Seriously the ones who claim this is not are the type that feel some sort of victory in ganking a level 20 with their level 50. Fighting a fair battle by some sort of rules is against their nature. Turbine made that sort of impossible and leveled the playing field therefore they bitch.
I heard about this game like a year ago and got all hyped joined the forums.
Then i found out that they weren't having PvP or essentially magic, cause apparently that doesn't fit into the lore.... the bollocks arguement was that there where few istari mentioned (5 leaders), but the reality is there was only 1 or 2 female fighters in the lore but they missed that part out.
the reality is there could easily be pvp if they had used thier brains more. you see contrary to the film/book focus on gondor vs orks of mordor, there was actually alot more going on at this time in the world of middle, acording to tolkien. gondor wasn't the only guys fighting, i forget all my lore but dwarfs and men of the lake where fighting evil men armies of the east. so orks wouldn;t have been the only playable evil race you got orks, golbins & trolls of variations, men of south (haradim), mercenaries and men of east all on saurons side.
Just to add my 2 cents since I actually do PvMP quite a bit. I'm also familiar with SWGs PvP which was/is a bit different.
There are a number of players very much attached to their monsters. There was a forum post about the possibility of what MPs would do if they revamped things and had you start your monster over. Most were not sure they would PvMP if they did. It'd almost be like what SWG did to us if they did that I think.
There are a number of players that only come to LotRO just to do PvMP. Most of the dedicated monsters have main characters that are not much above level 10. You DO have to level the monster. They start out as week Rank 0 monsters and even when maxing out the destiny, they are still weak level 50s. As ranks go up though there is definitely a difference. The only way to get rank is by player kills. So when there's some day a rank 15 monster, don't tell me that player isn't attached to it.
You can have a Uruk-hai, and I think it's a neat switch to allowing uruk-hai players which start out as weak level 1s. You can't pick what equipment to wear, but I think all orcs and uruk-hai seemed to be equipped in the same set of armour anyway. You can change the look of your monster as you gain rank.
They have mentioned plans to make additional PvMP areas that are not based on the current capture the fort mentality. Also mentioned plans to add additional monsters (perhaps more than just the warg, orc, uruk-hai, spider).
There is strategy involved. Taking down 3-4 minstrels in a raid group takes quite a bit of teamwork.
Each class needs to understand thier skills and it seems many do not (cause they don't always do the same thing). For example, a warg that does pounce out of stealth will stun. When they do pounce out of stealth they won't. When they do pounce with crippling bite active they can stun. If they bleed the target, a pounce with crippling bite active will not stun.
You need to understand how the different class skills work. For example, how does one stop a burglar from doing hips. Burglars also have a heal when stunned, so you might not want to stun them when they get low on health like you normally do against other classes.
While LotRO, the Monsters Play and everything looks pretty good to me, I never found the IP to really allow for a decent PvP MMO.
You got the Good Ones, with their Heroes, and you got the Evil Ones, with Swarms of weak units. This works well with the RTS games, but in an MMORPG, where you only control one character at a time, it doesn't.
Also, through the IP, the battle is decided already. We KNOW that Mordor will lose. We KNOW that all Orcs and Uruk-Hai and whatnot will be crushed. Where's the sense when you fight for a lost cause?
With a more open attempt to transform the IP to a MMORPG, it could've been very decent. But sadly, the famous IP stands in the way of a really great PvP Game, crippling the game basically.
Originally posted by xAlrythx Just because a product borrows ideas, it does not make that product a clone. By your definition, there are alot of cloned products and living things in this world.
Calling a product a clone is not looking at things objectively. In the coming months the game will be evolving on the already polished surface it has released on. They have confirmed housing in the near-future amoung other things. Whether or not they make good on these promises is another thing, but they have delivered so far, and it's not like they have performance issues to worry about constantly. I doubt I will be playing this game in the future, but if they add and improve what they have now, I see no reason why this game can't become something other than just another mmorpg. Oh and about PvMP, it's PvP whether you like it or not, just because you think it isn't, doesn't make it so. I wonder what your reply will consist of because you can't exactly play the fanboy card on me considering I have little interest in the game in it's current state.
Calling a product a clone is most assuredly looking at things objectively. Objectively speaking, there is little difference in the manner in which you play LOTRO as compared to the manner in which you play WoW. Standard WASD type movement, a hotbar of spells/skills/abilities that you press for combat effects, crafting, questing, etc. You level up your character by gaining xp from defeating mobs or completing quests, and acquire new gear and abilities. Looking at things objectively is fun, huh .
Umm... You're wrong. Asheron's Call 2 - a game developed by Turbine and released well before WoW (2002 to be exact) - used WASD and mouse movement, had a hotbar and everything else you mentioned. In fact, I posted a link to a screenshot of it elsewhere; a simple Google search will suffice if you want proof of this. LoTRO's interface pretty much emulates AC2's. Point is, they didn't copy it from WoW. Period. End of discussion. Please drop this argument because it's wrong.
Next...
If PvMP was exactly the same as PvP, how come its called PvMP? How come if its exactly the same, people keep saying its not the same? How come if you say it is, I can say it isn't? It's like calling a Subaru Brat a truck. Its got 4 wheels and a bed, but it sure isn't a truck.
Players control the monsters. Players control their own characters. Regardless of which side they choose, there's a player controlling each combatant. It's Player-against-Player combat, erego it's PvP. That it doesn't suit what you're looking for makes it no less so. I'd suggest finding a MMO that does have PvP as you'd prefer it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Why do people say LOTRO has no PvP? Because it really doesn't. Turbine stated that id didn't "fit in" to LOTR lore and had no place. They wouldn't allow an evil race to be playable because it didn't fit in with the lore and had no place. However, they have given you a psuedo PvP wherein you can inhabit the body of a "monster" and gain destiny points and get stronger gaining gear and equipment. Yes, I remember that part in the books where they possessed a Monster. Thats a part of the lore for sure. The reality is this, when Turbine announced the title, the legions that flocked to their community forums were they exact type of you might expect. they openly despise PvP, and go into a siezure at the very thought of griefing. They equate griefing with PvP. They equate imbalance to PvP, they equate Free for all massacres to PvP. It's either black or white. The numbers opposing PvP of ANY sort were overhwlming.. at first. Turbine had already decided not to implement Pvp Of ANY sort- well before Monster play. This labeled the game a care bear title and folks who are of an extremeist perspective and despise PvP came in droves and literally defined the community. As the title became more visibile in the marketplace and news began spreading like wildfire on it's development, it opened up to the actual MAINSTREAM audience of gamers. And we are a diverse community. I remember the threads on the forums (I was a beta player since last August.) and it was one of the most unpleseant environments imaginable. Those who appreciate PvP in some form, be it the old DAoC battlegrounds type, or the Arena type of WoW, or the objective based PvP, faction based PvP, anyone who spoke in support of there being some type of PvP was immediately deemed a psycho-dereanged-you-step-on-baby-kittens-lunatic-teenager. The mere mention or thread title stating "no PvP?" sent the community into attack mode... and I mean viciously. Who would have thought that a community comprised mostly of passifists would be so... I imagine you see the irony here. However, the threads continued as the community grew and turbine said "Oh crap, the attack hounds can't keep out EVERYONE who wants diversity, and since we only have four playable classes, limited character customization and limited class choices, we better do something and QUICK!" Enter Monster Play. Yes it sounds like a Saturday Morning cartoon, and it enraged the passifist community who accused Turbine of bowing to the "frantic" demands of a minority. The minority they spoke of was still arriving by the hundreds, threads appearing, and consequently locked daily. Turbine tried to make everyone happy by intituting a different type of PvP, totally breaking their previous sternly made excuses of "lore" and "history" and brought in this non-spontaneous, really kinda dumbed down type of PvP, that isn't really PvP at all, but an off brand. Many like it however, that is just my personal opinion of it, I apologize in advance if it sounds like I'm generalizing. Not my intention. I myself am an avid RP'er, but I also am able to enjoy the element of PvP in a conditional environment, such as WoW with contested territories, or DaoC when they had a open battleground. I have never EVER liked Free-For-ALL PvP, in my opinion thats asking for griefing and the primary reason I left L2. My preference is the freedom to choose my experience and have self made goals, be they PvP or PvE. Removing myself from my static Avatar to be a monster breaks the fluidity of the experience for me and detaches me from the game entirely. Turbine understands their demographic is primarily fans of the series and storytellers/RP'ers/PvE'ers. They have set aside a small corner of their system for those who prefer a diverse experience, no matter how strange or whatever.
You realize you don't *have* to play the monster, right? You can play your own character as well.
And, it *is* PvP. Whether you are facing a monster, or a Hobbit, there is another player on the other side of that screen, controlling that character, choosing and executing their attacks, and so forth - using their skills (or lack thereof) to try and defeat you. Just like in any other PvP scenario.
The setting or style of it makes it no less PvP. Because it doesn't suit some people's perception of what PvP "should be" makes it no less so. Player-versus-Player is an overall way of saying "one person challenging another - or several others". Team sports are a form of PvP. Checkers is a form of PvP. It's a broad concept of competition, not a strict definition.
I enjoy PvE and PvP alike; I can accept either one exclusively or in some combination. I for one think Turbine's implementation is new and unique and certainly adds a neat twist to it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If PvMP was exactly the same as PvP, how come its called PvMP? How come if its exactly the same, people keep saying its not the same? How come if you say it is, I can say it isn't? It's like calling a Subaru Brat a truck. Its got 4 wheels and a bed, but it sure isn't a truck.
My guess Turbine did try to explain the minor diffrence here by taking this name, but to be honest the diffrence to "in your book" standard PvP is so slim you woudn't notice it, atleast not if you play as a Free people characther.
Again..PvMP is PVP plain and simple..but it has some diffrences, just like any other game has, for example the PvP in DAOC is not like the PvP in WoW or the PvP in WoW is not like the PvP in EQ2 or Shadowbane, but it's still PvP..Or are you claiming these titles do not have PvP either ?
I can see now that Turbine shoudn't have named it this way, it only creates confusion and odd ideas,.,,,
Not sure I do follow here. It's a player controlled toon against another player controlled toon, isn't it? Whatever incarnation I do not care really. Anyone want to say there's no PvP in, for example, EVE cos you only got the ships fighting? Plain stupid in my book.
You choose your side and go have some fun in a player vs. player competition. The dainty hick-hack it is, no it is not really delivers.
Because real pvp is about LOSS, thats right ... losing. And most people don't have the balls to take the loss of ANYTHING with their characters .Carebears always talk about how PVPers are the ones stroking their epeen . But its the Carebear that is the one guilty of that crime. Its the PVPers that understand how much losing, and the reward, of pvp make a game SO much more than just a quest for the shiny. And you know who stands to gain the most from pvp? Crafters. If the game is done right.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
You realize you don't *have* to play the monster, right? You can play your own character as well.
And, it *is* PvP. Whether you are facing a monster, or a Hobbit, there is another player on the other side of that screen, controlling that character, choosing and executing their attacks, and so forth - using their skills (or lack thereof) to try and defeat you. Just like in any other PvP scenario.
The setting or style of it makes it no less PvP. Because it doesn't suit some people's perception of what PvP "should be" makes it no less so. Player-versus-Player is an overall way of saying "one person challenging another - or several others". Team sports are a form of PvP. Checkers is a form of PvP. It's a broad concept of competition, not a strict definition.
I enjoy PvE and PvP alike; I can accept either one exclusively or in some combination. I for one think Turbine's implementation is new and unique and certainly adds a neat twist to it.
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
Risk vs reward leads to different concepts of actual implementation. It doesn't render the fact of player vs player combat untrue. Whatever the rules set forth, it will give you a more enjoyable or less enjoyable experience based on your personal preference.
The basic concept or definition doesn't change. Some arguments brought forth seem to me like, you're no real human until you're not at least 1,80m tall but if you're taller than 1,87m you're not real either.
Stupid example, isn't it? On the other hand it's on the same level of some of the argumentation to be found in this thread. Regardless of how tall you are, you are per definition still a member of the human species.
Do you like the pvp system? thats another question.
Do you wish it was something more "old school"? Thats also another question.
It's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not is a different story.
Open pvp? such as shadowbane
realm pvp? such as wow daoc, eq2, and lotro
arena pvp? such as wow and guild wars.
it's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not, how many times do people have to tell you people this?
it's not open pvp, nobody said it was.
And if your definition of pvp is ganking everyone you come across? and if it's not that then it's not even pvp in your opinion... well your a idiot, i hate to bash other people for their opinions... but it's just rediculous. I'm not saying that open pvp is garbage, just your opinion. =P
and honestly open pvp in this game would be stupid. It just doesnt fit in with the ip. You could say i'm a bandit etc etc... i'm sorry but bandits behaved nothing like how people do in pvp games. you can quote examples here and there of it being similar, but i can quote much more...and actually find videos en masse.
open pvp=/=realistic. It's merely a different style of pvp. as is the rvr style combat in lotro.
want open pvp? go cry in the general forum like all you other whiners.
Do you like the pvp system? thats another question.
Do you wish it was something more "old school"? Thats also another question.
It's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not is a different story.
Open pvp? such as shadowbane
realm pvp? such as wow daoc, eq2, and lotro
arena pvp? such as wow and guild wars.
it's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not, how many times do people have to tell you people this?
it's not open pvp, nobody said it was.
And if your definition of pvp is ganking everyone you come across? and if it's not that then it's not even pvp in your opinion... well your a idiot, i hate to bash other people for their opinions... but it's just rediculous. I'm not saying that open pvp is garbage, just your opinion. =P
and honestly open pvp in this game would be stupid. It just doesnt fit in with the ip. You could say i'm a bandit etc etc... i'm sorry but bandits behaved nothing like how people do in pvp games. you can quote examples here and there of it being similar, but i can quote much more...and actually find videos en masse.
open pvp=/=realistic. It's merely a different style of pvp. as is the rvr style combat in lotro.
want open pvp? go cry in the general forum like all you other whiners.
Doesn't fit in the game... don't use that crap excuse.. i don't remember an army of ministrels at the battle of Helms Deep yelling "i can DPS" or legions of Hobbit burglars.. out to get even.
You realize you don't *have* to play the monster, right? You can play your own character as well. And, it *is* PvP. Whether you are facing a monster, or a Hobbit, there is another player on the other side of that screen, controlling that character, choosing and executing their attacks, and so forth - using their skills (or lack thereof) to try and defeat you. Just like in any other PvP scenario. The setting or style of it makes it no less PvP. Because it doesn't suit some people's perception of what PvP "should be" makes it no less so. Player-versus-Player is an overall way of saying "one person challenging another - or several others". Team sports are a form of PvP. Checkers is a form of PvP. It's a broad concept of competition, not a strict definition. I enjoy PvE and PvP alike; I can accept either one exclusively or in some combination. I for one think Turbine's implementation is new and unique and certainly adds a neat twist to it.
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
Oh look, someone once again trying to redefine what is already defined. P= player V = versus P= player. There isn't anything technical about it. Player on one side versus a player on the other side. Guess what? that makes it PvP. Just because you don't like the way its implemented doesn't make it any less so. I've done UO, AC(darktide holla!!!), DAoC, Shadowbane(twice) Lineage2, GW, EvE, even bloody Archlord.... as well as WoW and Lotro and they all have PvP. Just different methods of PVP but ALL are player vs player.
I agree with you. Some people simply seem to think that PvP is ganking other players, but not about fun. I think the PvP (as you call it) is good, I like some aspects of it even more then WoW. The thing with WoW is that you can just go to the enemy areas and gank them there while getting honour points, etc. I like that aspect too but I'm not saying the PvP of LoTRo is less.
You realize you don't *have* to play the monster, right? You can play your own character as well. And, it *is* PvP. Whether you are facing a monster, or a Hobbit, there is another player on the other side of that screen, controlling that character, choosing and executing their attacks, and so forth - using their skills (or lack thereof) to try and defeat you. Just like in any other PvP scenario. The setting or style of it makes it no less PvP. Because it doesn't suit some people's perception of what PvP "should be" makes it no less so. Player-versus-Player is an overall way of saying "one person challenging another - or several others". Team sports are a form of PvP. Checkers is a form of PvP. It's a broad concept of competition, not a strict definition. I enjoy PvE and PvP alike; I can accept either one exclusively or in some combination. I for one think Turbine's implementation is new and unique and certainly adds a neat twist to it.
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
lol... You can split hairs and bring your own breakdown of what doesn't make it PvP - in your eyes - all you want. The fact of the matter is You are a 'Player' controlling a character which is fighting another 'Player' controlling their character. It is *Player* versus *Player* - thus PvP. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp.
What you, and others, are debating over is whether or not it's PvP presented in the ways it's been traditionally presented in other games. And, no, it's not your traditional implementation of PvP. And you may well not like it. And that is your right.
However, it is still PvP.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+ and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about. It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*" no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic. This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
So..By this you claim that PvP is all in the points , and how we upgrade our characthers ? Othervise it's NOT PvP ?
What diffrence does it make that destiny points are shared ?
And plaease go ahead make all the alts in the world you still need to lvl them to get the points, (300 per/lvl after 10) If you get a characther to 18 thats aprox 2000 destiny points, wich is a one time reward for one of the repeatable quests you can do as a monster in Ettenmoors..
The thing is..I think it's rather interessting that the points are shared..that makes it a choice,,do I spend all the points on my monster/monsters or my characther/characthers.
In the comment about monsters are gimped versus players you are right , I believe this was intended to be like this..Monsters come in hordes(has to) and players in smaller teams, this is how Turbine pictured the battles VS the Free People..And i think that was a good Idea..
Mindless arcade button mashing ?? Well..If you wish to call it that..who am I to stop you, but If you cant see that there is tons of work to be succesful with both your Freep and your monster to be succesful, well then you are either blind or stupid..(wops sorry)
Do you like the pvp system? thats another question.
Do you wish it was something more "old school"? Thats also another question.
It's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not is a different story.
Open pvp? such as shadowbane
realm pvp? such as wow daoc, eq2, and lotro
arena pvp? such as wow and guild wars.
it's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not, how many times do people have to tell you people this?
it's not open pvp, nobody said it was.
And if your definition of pvp is ganking everyone you come across? and if it's not that then it's not even pvp in your opinion... well your a idiot, i hate to bash other people for their opinions... but it's just rediculous. I'm not saying that open pvp is garbage, just your opinion. =P
and honestly open pvp in this game would be stupid. It just doesnt fit in with the ip. You could say i'm a bandit etc etc... i'm sorry but bandits behaved nothing like how people do in pvp games. you can quote examples here and there of it being similar, but i can quote much more...and actually find videos en masse.
open pvp=/=realistic. It's merely a different style of pvp. as is the rvr style combat in lotro.
want open pvp? go cry in the general forum like all you other whiners.
Doesn't fit in the game... don't use that crap excuse.. i don't remember an army of ministrels at the battle of Helms Deep yelling "i can DPS" or legions of Hobbit burglars.. out to get even.
Heheh....
Annnd... he makes a sharp left turn onto a completely unrelated point...
Unless you can somehow tie this into your argument that it's not PvP?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Because real pvp is about LOSS, thats right ... losing. And most people don't have the balls to take the loss of ANYTHING with their characters .Carebears always talk about how PVPers are the ones stroking their epeen . But its the Carebear that is the one guilty of that crime. Its the PVPers that understand how much losing, and the reward, of pvp make a game SO much more than just a quest for the shiny. And you know who stands to gain the most from pvp? Crafters. If the game is done right.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
Wow.
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Because real pvp is about LOSS, thats right ... losing. And most people don't have the balls to take the loss of ANYTHING with their characters .Carebears always talk about how PVPers are the ones stroking their epeen . But its the Carebear that is the one guilty of that crime. Its the PVPers that understand how much losing, and the reward, of pvp make a game SO much more than just a quest for the shiny. And you know who stands to gain the most from pvp? Crafters. If the game is done right.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
Wow.
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
So you've been given the authority to deem what "real PvP" is?
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP.
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.He doesn't want real risk. He wants to loot people.
Because real pvp is about LOSS, thats right ... losing. And most people don't have the balls to take the loss of ANYTHING with their characters .Carebears always talk about how PVPers are the ones stroking their epeen . But its the Carebear that is the one guilty of that crime. Its the PVPers that understand how much losing, and the reward, of pvp make a game SO much more than just a quest for the shiny. And you know who stands to gain the most from pvp? Crafters. If the game is done right.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
Wow.
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
Lol......I tend to find more humor in it than anything. It's funny how logic works for some. The haters tend to claim that this game offered nothing new and it has no PvP. When in reality the innovation here is the not so traditional (NEW) type of PvP called PvMP.
Because real pvp is about LOSS, thats right ... losing. And most people don't have the balls to take the loss of ANYTHING with their characters .Carebears always talk about how PVPers are the ones stroking their epeen . But its the Carebear that is the one guilty of that crime. Its the PVPers that understand how much losing, and the reward, of pvp make a game SO much more than just a quest for the shiny. And you know who stands to gain the most from pvp? Crafters. If the game is done right.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
Wow.
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
Lol......I tend to find more humor in it than anything. It's funny how logic works for some. The haters tend to claim that this game offered nothing new and it has no PvP. When in reality the innovation here is the not so traditional (NEW) type of PvP called PvMP.
Fair enough.. But, I mean... We're sharing world space with these people in-game. If such a simple concept as "one player challenging another player = PvP" is completely lost on them.. Who knows what else might be? What's next... A Lore Master is going to run up to a Raid boss, shouting at the Guardians to back off... "Let me tank it!! These robes are magical!!"
-shudders-
But in all seriousness... It is always good fun how some of the rabidly pro open-PvP people will spin the issue 100 different ways to try and "win" the argument - even when the game's setup doesn't suit their playstyle.
My favorites are some who have put it in the context that Turbine somehow goofed and made a mistake with the PvPM setup... as though the designers/devs had *really* intended for a more traditional world PvP system, but somehow they dropped the ball, and one day they realized "OMG... How'd those player-controlled monsters get in here?!"
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Im ehmm..sorry but I do not understand this..This is not PvP..???!!!?? I think this is all in your imagination or your view how PvP must be setup..Myself i see no diffrence in this PvP compared to DAOC RvR ..
Just because Turbine once said they will never have PvP and the outcome was PvMP for various reasons doesnt make it less PvP..Its full fledged PvP with one minor diffrence you do not have to level the dark side..I think it's a brilliant idea and as it stands it gives us one more little hobby to do when bored, fine tune your "bad guy"
The diffrence i see however is that it isnt even close to balanced (1VS1) and that is intended...I picture it like Turbine's intention was that the monster side has to rely on masses while the Free people comes in small groups, any Freep can atleast take out 2-3 monsters or atleast stand up to 2 without problems..The skills we monsters has are very limited(even when upgraded) when compared to Freeps that has a varity of skills atleast 2-3 times as many..As a spider for instance I have One melee attack, one DOT, one Root, and one entrencement skill..Thats it.and if i upgrade i can get one more enrancement ability at rank 0.
/thark
I miss DAoC
I heard about this game like a year ago and got all hyped joined the forums.
Then i found out that they weren't having PvP or essentially magic, cause apparently that doesn't fit into the lore.... the bollocks arguement was that there where few istari mentioned (5 leaders), but the reality is there was only 1 or 2 female fighters in the lore but they missed that part out.
the reality is there could easily be pvp if they had used thier brains more. you see contrary to the film/book focus on gondor vs orks of mordor, there was actually alot more going on at this time in the world of middle, acording to tolkien. gondor wasn't the only guys fighting, i forget all my lore but dwarfs and men of the lake where fighting evil men armies of the east. so orks wouldn;t have been the only playable evil race you got orks, golbins & trolls of variations, men of south (haradim), mercenaries and men of east all on saurons side.
the game is a bias version of the lore imo.
My blog:
Just to add my 2 cents since I actually do PvMP quite a bit. I'm also familiar with SWGs PvP which was/is a bit different.
There are a number of players very much attached to their monsters. There was a forum post about the possibility of what MPs would do if they revamped things and had you start your monster over. Most were not sure they would PvMP if they did. It'd almost be like what SWG did to us if they did that I think.
There are a number of players that only come to LotRO just to do PvMP. Most of the dedicated monsters have main characters that are not much above level 10. You DO have to level the monster. They start out as week Rank 0 monsters and even when maxing out the destiny, they are still weak level 50s. As ranks go up though there is definitely a difference. The only way to get rank is by player kills. So when there's some day a rank 15 monster, don't tell me that player isn't attached to it.
You can have a Uruk-hai, and I think it's a neat switch to allowing uruk-hai players which start out as weak level 1s. You can't pick what equipment to wear, but I think all orcs and uruk-hai seemed to be equipped in the same set of armour anyway. You can change the look of your monster as you gain rank.
They have mentioned plans to make additional PvMP areas that are not based on the current capture the fort mentality. Also mentioned plans to add additional monsters (perhaps more than just the warg, orc, uruk-hai, spider).
There is strategy involved. Taking down 3-4 minstrels in a raid group takes quite a bit of teamwork.
Each class needs to understand thier skills and it seems many do not (cause they don't always do the same thing). For example, a warg that does pounce out of stealth will stun. When they do pounce out of stealth they won't. When they do pounce with crippling bite active they can stun. If they bleed the target, a pounce with crippling bite active will not stun.
You need to understand how the different class skills work. For example, how does one stop a burglar from doing hips. Burglars also have a heal when stunned, so you might not want to stun them when they get low on health like you normally do against other classes.
Anyway, it's fun for a number of us.
SWG - Starsider (retired?)
EQ2 - Oasis
LotRO - Vilya
You got the Good Ones, with their Heroes, and you got the Evil Ones, with Swarms of weak units. This works well with the RTS games, but in an MMORPG, where you only control one character at a time, it doesn't.
Also, through the IP, the battle is decided already. We KNOW that Mordor will lose. We KNOW that all Orcs and Uruk-Hai and whatnot will be crushed. Where's the sense when you fight for a lost cause?
With a more open attempt to transform the IP to a MMORPG, it could've been very decent. But sadly, the famous IP stands in the way of a really great PvP Game, crippling the game basically.
Calling a product a clone is most assuredly looking at things objectively. Objectively speaking, there is little difference in the manner in which you play LOTRO as compared to the manner in which you play WoW. Standard WASD type movement, a hotbar of spells/skills/abilities that you press for combat effects, crafting, questing, etc. You level up your character by gaining xp from defeating mobs or completing quests, and acquire new gear and abilities. Looking at things objectively is fun, huh
Umm... You're wrong. Asheron's Call 2 - a game developed by Turbine and released well before WoW (2002 to be exact) - used WASD and mouse movement, had a hotbar and everything else you mentioned. In fact, I posted a link to a screenshot of it elsewhere; a simple Google search will suffice if you want proof of this. LoTRO's interface pretty much emulates AC2's. Point is, they didn't copy it from WoW. Period. End of discussion. Please drop this argument because it's wrong.
Next...
If PvMP was exactly the same as PvP, how come its called PvMP? How come if its exactly the same, people keep saying its not the same? How come if you say it is, I can say it isn't? It's like calling a Subaru Brat a truck. Its got 4 wheels and a bed, but it sure isn't a truck.
Players control the monsters. Players control their own characters. Regardless of which side they choose, there's a player controlling each combatant. It's Player-against-Player combat, erego it's PvP. That it doesn't suit what you're looking for makes it no less so. I'd suggest finding a MMO that does have PvP as you'd prefer it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You fail.
You realize you don't *have* to play the monster, right? You can play your own character as well.
And, it *is* PvP. Whether you are facing a monster, or a Hobbit, there is another player on the other side of that screen, controlling that character, choosing and executing their attacks, and so forth - using their skills (or lack thereof) to try and defeat you. Just like in any other PvP scenario.
The setting or style of it makes it no less PvP. Because it doesn't suit some people's perception of what PvP "should be" makes it no less so. Player-versus-Player is an overall way of saying "one person challenging another - or several others". Team sports are a form of PvP. Checkers is a form of PvP. It's a broad concept of competition, not a strict definition.
I enjoy PvE and PvP alike; I can accept either one exclusively or in some combination. I for one think Turbine's implementation is new and unique and certainly adds a neat twist to it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
My guess Turbine did try to explain the minor diffrence here by taking this name, but to be honest the diffrence to "in your book" standard PvP is so slim you woudn't notice it, atleast not if you play as a Free people characther.
Again..PvMP is PVP plain and simple..but it has some diffrences, just like any other game has, for example the PvP in DAOC is not like the PvP in WoW or the PvP in WoW is not like the PvP in EQ2 or Shadowbane, but it's still PvP..Or are you claiming these titles do not have PvP either ?
I can see now that Turbine shoudn't have named it this way, it only creates confusion and odd ideas,.,,,
You choose your side and go have some fun in a player vs. player competition. The dainty hick-hack it is, no it is not really delivers.
The same old stereotype of the griefer and ganker is what the carebears use to ward off the boogeyman.
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
The basic concept or definition doesn't change. Some arguments brought forth seem to me like, you're no real human until you're not at least 1,80m tall but if you're taller than 1,87m you're not real either.
Stupid example, isn't it? On the other hand it's on the same level of some of the argumentation to be found in this thread. Regardless of how tall you are, you are per definition still a member of the human species.
Do you like the pvp system? thats another question.
Do you wish it was something more "old school"? Thats also another question.
It's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not is a different story.
Open pvp? such as shadowbane
realm pvp? such as wow daoc, eq2, and lotro
arena pvp? such as wow and guild wars.
it's still pvp regardless of whether you like it or not, how many times do people have to tell you people this?
it's not open pvp, nobody said it was.
And if your definition of pvp is ganking everyone you come across? and if it's not that then it's not even pvp in your opinion... well your a idiot, i hate to bash other people for their opinions... but it's just rediculous. I'm not saying that open pvp is garbage, just your opinion. =P
and honestly open pvp in this game would be stupid. It just doesnt fit in with the ip. You could say i'm a bandit etc etc... i'm sorry but bandits behaved nothing like how people do in pvp games. you can quote examples here and there of it being similar, but i can quote much more...and actually find videos en masse.
open pvp=/=realistic. It's merely a different style of pvp. as is the rvr style combat in lotro.
want open pvp? go cry in the general forum like all you other whiners.
Doesn't fit in the game... don't use that crap excuse.. i don't remember an army of ministrels at the battle of Helms Deep yelling "i can DPS" or legions of Hobbit burglars.. out to get even.
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
Oh look, someone once again trying to redefine what is already defined. P= player V = versus P= player. There isn't anything technical about it. Player on one side versus a player on the other side. Guess what? that makes it PvP. Just because you don't like the way its implemented doesn't make it any less so. I've done UO, AC(darktide holla!!!), DAoC, Shadowbane(twice
) Lineage2, GW, EvE, even bloody Archlord....
as well as WoW and Lotro and they all have PvP. Just different methods of PVP but ALL are player vs player.
_________________________________________________________________________
Currently playing Shot Online: Marlonn - lvl 52 Zygmunt.
"Argueing online is like running in the special Olympics... even if you win your still a retard."
Actually you can ONLY play as your character at level 40+, whereas you can play a monster at level 10+
and it's technically NOT PvP, since the destiny points are pretty worthless... because they're shared throughout every character you create on your realm. For example i can create an ALT soley for the purpose of increasing my destiny points for my main. That's not what PvP should be about.
It's basically an easy way for turbine to say "look we added an area where you can battle good verus evil kinda, it's not like any of the epic battle scenes you see in the Movies but... it'll show us doing something rather than fingers up our asses- we even implemented a quest system for the bad guys which makes no sense, but you'll love it... .. *cough*"
no one has even asked WHY is there a hobbit town in the corner surrounded by evil, like their out for a picnic.
This is not PvP, this is merely a chance to play as a spider among other things and kill the good guys; that's it.. mindless arcade fun of button mashing (they tried to balance this off by only allowing level 40+ to play the good guys.. that way you don't see how bad the evil guys are gimped). Although it's fun for 10 mins collecting elf ears and hobbit feet.... then it's like "i'm questing for destiny points, not experiance... it's end game without the fun"
lol... You can split hairs and bring your own breakdown of what doesn't make it PvP - in your eyes - all you want. The fact of the matter is You are a 'Player' controlling a character which is fighting another 'Player' controlling their character. It is *Player* versus *Player* - thus PvP. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp.
What you, and others, are debating over is whether or not it's PvP presented in the ways it's been traditionally presented in other games. And, no, it's not your traditional implementation of PvP. And you may well not like it. And that is your right.
However, it is still PvP.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So..By this you claim that PvP is all in the points , and how we upgrade our characthers ? Othervise it's NOT PvP ?
What diffrence does it make that destiny points are shared ?
And plaease go ahead make all the alts in the world you still need to lvl them to get the points, (300 per/lvl after 10) If you get a characther to 18 thats aprox 2000 destiny points, wich is a one time reward for one of the repeatable quests you can do as a monster in Ettenmoors..
The thing is..I think it's rather interessting that the points are shared..that makes it a choice,,do I spend all the points on my monster/monsters or my characther/characthers.
In the comment about monsters are gimped versus players you are right , I believe this was intended to be like this..Monsters come in hordes(has to) and players in smaller teams, this is how Turbine pictured the battles VS the Free People..And i think that was a good Idea..
Mindless arcade button mashing ?? Well..If you wish to call it that..who am I to stop you, but If you cant see that there is tons of work to be succesful with both your Freep and your monster to be succesful, well then you are either blind or stupid..(wops sorry)
/Thark
Doesn't fit in the game... don't use that crap excuse.. i don't remember an army of ministrels at the battle of Helms Deep yelling "i can DPS" or legions of Hobbit burglars.. out to get even.
Heheh....
Annnd... he makes a sharp left turn onto a completely unrelated point...
Unless you can somehow tie this into your argument that it's not PvP?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
So you've been given the authority to deem what "real PvP" is?
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP.
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.He doesn't want real risk. He wants to loot people.
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
Lol......I tend to find more humor in it than anything. It's funny how logic works for some. The haters tend to claim that this game offered nothing new and it has no PvP. When in reality the innovation here is the not so traditional (NEW) type of PvP called PvMP.
http://www.straightdope.com/
Sounds like someone needs a hug. And a cup of hot-cocoa.
Uhh.. wrong.
"Real PvP" is however the developers implement it. As long as it's two or more players competing against each other, it's PvP. It's defined in *that* two or more players are battling it out... not in *how* two or more players are battling it out, or the rules or the setting or the tactics used in that battle. Get it?
Once again, as has been stated here, by myself and others, several times now - whether or not you agree with how it's implemented is another thing altogether. But it's not a viable argument that there is no PvP.
Seriously.. Is anyone else finding it disturbing how many heads such a simple concept is flying completely over?
(Edited for more detail and some elaboration)
Lol......I tend to find more humor in it than anything. It's funny how logic works for some. The haters tend to claim that this game offered nothing new and it has no PvP. When in reality the innovation here is the not so traditional (NEW) type of PvP called PvMP.
Fair enough.. But, I mean... We're sharing world space with these people in-game. If such a simple concept as "one player challenging another player = PvP" is completely lost on them.. Who knows what else might be? What's next... A Lore Master is going to run up to a Raid boss, shouting at the Guardians to back off... "Let me tank it!! These robes are magical!!"
-shudders-
But in all seriousness... It is always good fun how some of the rabidly pro open-PvP people will spin the issue 100 different ways to try and "win" the argument - even when the game's setup doesn't suit their playstyle.
My favorites are some who have put it in the context that Turbine somehow goofed and made a mistake with the PvPM setup... as though the designers/devs had *really* intended for a more traditional world PvP system, but somehow they dropped the ball, and one day they realized "OMG... How'd those player-controlled monsters get in here?!"
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops