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Originally posted by healz4u Originally posted by heimdallr I find the ending too dramatic, really.
Thank God it is not just me. In 8 years of gaming, I never heard of a casual guild called "grow-up" guild.
What is it about the 'guild' that makes it essential in an MMO? I mean, if all the guild tags in all the MMOs disappeared tomorrow, we'd still group, we'd still have friends, and we'd still have fun.
Want proof? The next time a GM spawns a spontaneous live event, observe what happens. You automatically have players from all sorts of guilds, from all sorts of classes, spontaneously working together and having fun without needing guildchat, TS, vent, or this "trust" business I hear so much from the gilderburgers. Now the players who participate don't need some gimmick like tags, or "social bonds," or "trust" to know what to do. They simply do it, and they find out that "My goodness! We all know how to play!"
So why do we have guilds? I'm afraid this is something that we just had as a neat cosmetic function back in UO, that we just kept on keeping as a relic. However, we have much more sophisticated ways of organizing players. Factions are something that could solve a lot of accessability issues, immersion issues, and metagaming issues that guilds cause, and function in all the ways that guilds do currently. Realm versus realm is another way of organizing players. Perhaps common areas can be creatively used, like in SWG before it got nerfed.
See, guilds are a way of organizing players that cause as many problems as they solve. Whats more is that the problems guilds cause are beyond the scope of the developers to correct, since they rely upon organizational tools independent of the game.
__________________________"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What problems do guilds cause that would not occur in any case, regardless of how players organise themselves in-game? And all but the most casual players will organise themselves; people are instinctively tribal.
I found the article terribly narrow in it's approach. As several others have said, it ignores many of the reasons for the success or otherwise of guilds, and focusses on WoW alone, which results in a picture that bears no relation to my own experience. I am an officer of a medium sized DaoC guild, and my guild hangs together simply because it's full of people who get along.
It's easy to join or leave a guild in DaoC just as it is in WoW. There are no built-in barriers to joining or penalties for leaving. Guilds are easy to create, too. But whilst I get the impression that guild-churn is high in WoW, it's not in DaoC, at least not on the two servers I've played on. Why? I think it comes down to the fact that guild memership is not forced. It's non-essential, but nevertheless can convery huge advantages, and not just the benefits of a group of people ready to assist with tasks/kit/money. Because it's not forced, there is always an expectation that guild members will be loyal to the guild. This expectation benefits the community as well as the individual.
There are major social implications associated with guild membership. Established guilds have reputations to uphold; they will not welcome players who will tarnish that reputation, conversely players who join a guild will benefit from the positive image that guild has built up; joining a top-flight guild has kudos. A guild is usually also a strong social network, and upsetting a member of your guild will often make you a pariah within the guild. Being kicked out of a guild may make it very difficult for you to be accepted into a new guild. So guilds act as the enforcers of behavioural standards within the community. Obviously, guilds do not all agree on behavioural standards, but even where a guild is known to allow playstyles that the general community disapproves of, the fact that people who enjoy that playstyle are gathered in one place and readily identifiable makes them easier to deal with.
The tribal instinct does of course have its downside - rivalries develop. But as long as those rivalries do not become too bitter and vicious, surely those are also good for the game? Most games are designed to be competetive, after all.