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Biggest Mistake with Xpac

I believe the idea of the expansion was an incredible idea. New races and a "new" class newly allied with each side. The 5man dungeons with the idea of them turning into heroics is a great idea, but poorly implemented. The only real achievable loot worth doing the heroics is the final boss. This piece of gear is supposed to make the whole waist of time worth while. I understand that OOoOOooOO its an epic, but who really cares about the fact that its epic when other blues are equally as good situationally? The progression up to 70 is also an amazing accomplishment implemented with ease. I find all of this to be absolutely incredible about the expansion.



The Biggest Mistake



Having Karazhan (A 10 man 7 day reset instance) Be the stepping stone into 25 man raids. I feel that this has hurt the game even more than anyone could possibly imagine. The people who complained o, I can't get uber leet gear still won't because they lack the skill to raid. Those medium sized guilds that created with alliances with other guilds will prosper much  more than any other guild out of this change. The 40 man established raid content was set in stone for 2 years. Guilds built up to 40 people obviously a core of strong gamers, but those who could fill out the ranks and do half decent allowing for good progression.



The guild I was in was a good portion through or finished with most wings of naxx besides ghoul. The first people to 70 made their way through Karazhan downing attume first try and a laughable joke, but the lack or need of specific classes prevented any further progress first night. As the other classes leveled up and got into Karazhan Rogues became the first to completely get kicked out later to have some stuff changed and allowing 1 or so to be let back in. None the less the balance from a 40 man to a 10 man is completely different, and requires the shaving of guilds completely.



I know many guilds will send multiple groups through Kara, and run through gruul's lair with ease, but none the less I feel that the biggest mistake with xpac is creating this complete bottle neck at Karazhan causing in some cases the complete destruction of guilds and everything that has been built up.



I quit due to this issue, and I may come back next year when another xpac comes out to see how it is, but the Burning Crusade seriously needs to look over how they treat timing for raids. 20 mans were progression to 40 mans at 3 day timers. Now a 10 man is a progression to a 25 man at a 7 day timer. Completely uncalled for in my opinion, and I think has lead to the quitting of a lot of people. Maybe not, but I know 10 people in my circle of people I played with who uninstalled their copy 2 or so months after BC release due to it.





If ya feel the need to flame this opinion due to your own e-peen stroking go for it, but this is just how I feel.

Comments

  • JackDonkeyJackDonkey Member Posts: 383
    thanks for quitting instead of just bitching about it. I quit  early january before BC because I was spoiled by Eve's free expansions and the main reason I quit was no longer being able to make one button mashers.

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  • JJD74JJD74 Member Posts: 45

    In the same boat as Namelessbob... as are a surprisingly large amount of people.  I just quit playing myself.  Had a 70 draenei shaman 4/5 T4... the guild was doing well with three groups clearing KZ in 2 days.  Downing Kazzak, Mag, Gruul, and heading to SSC.

     

    After getting a look at things, first hand... it's all the same grind / raid... encounters have just been made longer.

    For that matter, everything seems the same... just more time consuming.  Progression as well, due to 7 day resets, etc.

     

    I wouldn't say it's the worst expansion I've ever seen, however, it's definately not one of the best.  I expected far more from Blizzard.

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  • hypersanhypersan Member Posts: 63
    Originally posted by JJD74


    In the same boat as Namelessbob... as are a surprisingly large amount of people.  I just quit playing myself.  Had a 70 draenei shaman 4/5 T4... the guild was doing well with three groups clearing KZ in 2 days.  Downing Kazzak, Mag, Gruul, and heading to SSC.
     
    After getting a look at things, first hand... it's all the same grind / raid... encounters have just been made longer.
    For that matter, everything seems the same... just more time consuming.  Progression as well, due to 7 day resets, etc.
     
    I wouldn't say it's the worst expansion I've ever seen, however, it's definately not one of the best.  I expected far more from Blizzard.


    I am just honestly curious ...What more would you have liked to see, what is it that blizzard could have done to pull you back in and keep your account. ? (while at the same time not alienating like 7million other people who think WOW is perfect as it is).





    Games like all things have a finite span. Sometimes its just time to move on. It sounds like it was time to move on for you before the expansion hit actually.
  • JJD74JJD74 Member Posts: 45
    Originally posted by hypersan

    Originally posted by JJD74


    In the same boat as Namelessbob... as are a surprisingly large amount of people.  I just quit playing myself.  Had a 70 draenei shaman 4/5 T4... the guild was doing well with three groups clearing KZ in 2 days.  Downing Kazzak, Mag, Gruul, and heading to SSC.
     
    After getting a look at things, first hand... it's all the same grind / raid... encounters have just been made longer.
    For that matter, everything seems the same... just more time consuming.  Progression as well, due to 7 day resets, etc.
     
    I wouldn't say it's the worst expansion I've ever seen, however, it's definately not one of the best.  I expected far more from Blizzard.


    I am just honestly curious ...What more would you have liked to see, what is it that blizzard could have done to pull you back in and keep your account. ? (while at the same time not alienating like 7million other people who think WOW is perfect as it is).





    Games like all things have a finite span. Sometimes its just time to move on. It sounds like it was time to move on for you before the expansion hit actually.

    Long Story short.... I'm bored.    It's time to move on.   I just quit 3 days ago, and I've seen everything the expansion pack has to offer, thus far.  Black Temple was part of the expansion, but it's not.... implemented yet.  SSC is part of the expansion, but everything after the second boss is "bugged beyond playable".   However, you can skip all of those and fish up the last boss for shits and giggles.  (We did it a few times, and I'll tell you, he hits hard... avoid the swirling water)     It kept me around for 2 years.  I suppose that was WoW's span in my life.   Anarchy Online kept me for 4 years, and the only reason I left that was outdated graphics, and all the freebie accounts.   Character customization was probably a huge part of why I stayed so long... not to mention the content was immense.  A much larger world, mass pvp, better community, and better GM support.

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  • CiredricCiredric Member Posts: 723

    Kaz has caused a lot of friction in our guild too.  People want to do it with friends, but oh no they already killed a boss in there and can't go.  Just absolutely horrid design and if you want to raid, you have to put up with it.

    I think I probably will leave soon, there are many in our guild that are fed up too.

  • cupertinocupertino Member Posts: 1,094
    Going from 40man raids to a 10man raid hurt many guilds, we though ah no problem we'll just run 3-4 goups but my guild split becuase of it, ppl not logging on becuase they dont think they'll be invited and then on the day not enough players to even go.. its was a nightmare.  Blizzard should of had a 25man from the get go.



    Also outlands was to dettached from azeroth, the only active place in azeroth amount 60-70 (majoirty of the pop) is Stormwind city, Ironforge (the old meeting place) is empty with just the odd players running around.



    Blizz should of added heroic modes to the old endgame dungeons to bring ppl back to azeroth.



    I realy dont think blizzard thought about how the oulands would effect the old world, we can only pray for a fix in the future.

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  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    personally I think 10 man dungeons are a good thing, it provides more for the casual gamer and/or for gamers not interested in Raiding. Becuase lets face it, not every jack & tom enjoys spending 56 hours a week trying to get a group. IMO, guilds in WoW have become extremely elitist, only choosing people by their class & playtimes instead of their personality and cooperation, I am absolutely in favor of removing this kind of thinking from a game, becuase thats all it is, a game, its not a job...

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  • cupertinocupertino Member Posts: 1,094
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    personally I think 10 man dungeons are a good thing, it provides more for the casual gamer and/or for gamers not interested in Raiding. Becuase lets face it, not every jack & tom enjoys spending 56 hours a week trying to get a group. IMO, guilds in WoW have become extremely elitist, only choosing people by their class & playtimes instead of their personality and cooperation, I am absolutely in favor of removing this kind of thinking from a game, becuase thats all it is, a game, its not a job...
    10man do have a place, but the problem was that TBC only launched with a 10man and considering raid guilds had a core 40man raid group this was a bad move, a 10man is good but the raid guilds needed a 25man from the start and not have to wait 3 months for the black temple to open.

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  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by hypersan

    (while at the same time not alienating like 7million other people who think WOW is perfect as it is).
    I'm one of those who bought WoW + TBC, and still have an active account. Though I love this game, it IS NOT perfect. I sincerely doubt 2% of the players would consider it "perfect". Such doesn't exist, imo.
  • Originally posted by godpuppet

    personally I think 10 man dungeons are a good thing, it provides more for the casual gamer and/or for gamers not interested in Raiding.



    O, I have no problem with the fact that its a 10 man. The whole point being that it was the KEY stepping point for guilds prior. If Blizzard would of thought a little more about the content of current guilds it may not of happened the way it did, but shrug its over with now and i've moved on for the time being. I think they should of opened up several 10, 15, 20, 25's with just a complete variation of encounters for people to hone and tune their skills, and not make the gear so incredibly different as to require that people participate in the 25mans to have the gear equivalent. I think that the same look on everyone got a bit old as well. I love diversity in player looks.



    O well, hopefully enough people click the 25man raid cap and other and say it was an idiotic idea to create the bottleneck with karazhan when they quit heh.
  • JWPikeJWPike Member Posts: 71
    Persoanlly I think that they should cap raids at 10 man. It is hard enough to find people that know what they are doing to do 5 man instances. As for raids either you have to give up your life or you can not raid with a lot of guilds. Some of us actually want more to life than a digital character in a fanatasy digital realm. Some have lives, jobs, families, schools, other interests, and spend time bettering themselves.
  • JWPikeJWPike Member Posts: 71
    Only problem is to get the best gear you gotta still do 25 mna raids so what is the point of 10 man raids. Cap all of them at 10.
  • sonicsixsonicsix Member UncommonPosts: 66

     

    I agree.  10 man should be the cap... and they should remember it's a game so it shouldn't be insanely hard for the AVERAGE player.  Have heroic mode for those with epeen issues, but the loot should be the same.  If the average pickup group wipes 3 or more times on a dungeon, then it should be retuned.  I can't speak for others but I played for fun, and wiping over and over just isn't my idea of fun.

    Of course this won't happen and that's why my account has been inactive.  So a level 70 rogue and 7 other characters level 60 and higher are just wasting away because WoW is a raiders' game.

    Originally posted by JWPike

    Persoanlly I think that they should cap raids at 10 man. It is hard enough to find people that know what they are doing to do 5 man instances. As for raids either you have to give up your life or you can not raid with a lot of guilds. Some of us actually want more to life than a digital character in a fanatasy digital realm. Some have lives, jobs, families, schools, other interests, and spend time bettering themselves.
  • JJD74JJD74 Member Posts: 45
    Originally posted by JWPike

    Only problem is to get the best gear you gotta still do 25 mna raids so what is the point of 10 man raids. Cap all of them at 10.



    I can understand this point of view, and I also understand the "hardcore's" point of view.

    Unfortunately, until one of these companies decides to make a "hardcore" server AND a "casual" server, which would also divide such content... there's no way to cater to both style of players.

     

    I honestly think the server type thing could relieve a lot of afformentioned irritation. 

    Hardcore servers would have all the 25 man, mind numbing content for the better gear, etc, for those hardcores out there.

    While'st the Casual server would have all the 10man stuff, and epics for the casual gamers.

    As far as not being able to get that 25 man gear... you'd at least never face the issue on your server, because it's not there.

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  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061


    Originally posted by sonicsix


    I agree. 10 man should be the cap... and they should remember it's a game so it shouldn't be insanely hard for the AVERAGE player. Have heroic mode for those with epeen issues, but the loot should be the same. If the average pickup group wipes 3 or more times on a dungeon, then it should be retuned. I can't speak for others but I played for fun, and wiping over and over just isn't my idea of fun.
    Of course this won't happen and that's why my account has been inactive. So a level 70 rogue and 7 other characters level 60 and higher are just wasting away because WoW is a raiders' game.


    Originally posted by JWPike
    Persoanlly I think that they should cap raids at 10 man. It is hard enough to find people that know what they are doing to do 5 man instances. As for raids either you have to give up your life or you can not raid with a lot of guilds. Some of us actually want more to life than a digital character in a fanatasy digital realm. Some have lives, jobs, families, schools, other interests, and spend time bettering themselves.

    I agree that 10 man should be the cap, but retuning an instance if an average pick-up group can't do it is not a good idea. Most of the instances are easy for me and a guild group even in heroic, so why tune them down to the "average" level. If wiping is not fun, then, well, learn to play. I personally enjoy a challenge, but grinding materials for consumables and wiping in 25-man raids due to disconnects is not my idea of a challenge. WoW game mechanics are extremely simple and learning how to master your class should be quite straight-forward.

    Having typed the above, I have to state that I'm a very casual player, my weekly played is around 10 hours. There's a difference in tuning things down to the "stupid" level and to casual players/guilds.

  • SunriderSunrider Member UncommonPosts: 527

    You know, i think one of the most sure-fire ways to know that WoW is slipping is when one of your friends who still plays ask you to get up on your rogue and come to a raid because they dont have enough rogues for DPS...

    /rant on

    god damn i hate the BC.

    If you're going to have a good thing and have it good, dont destroy it by screwing people over. They did exactly this with 40>25 mans... blah. My guild spent 1month exactly on BWL from start to finish and 3 months on farm... i had 4/8's T2 armor and within one GIANT patch (that i still want a refund for) it was all made obsolete, like many of your accomplishments as well. Then they go and effing change the player caps in raids, and make half our raiding gear obsolete... including the FR gear and Ony cloaks.... ::sigh::

    /rant off

    "And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."

  • Pipboy2000Pipboy2000 Member Posts: 44
    I was in a big raiding guild pre BC 3rd tank wrath/dreadnaught  we were on Noth in Naxxaramas with everything cleared prior to it, about a month before BC came out my guild stopped raiding and i quit on vacation.  So I come back from my vacation log on start playing, and I think to myself what the hell am i doing? I played the game for two years and then my reward for paying them a bonus ( the expansion ) is having to level 10 more boring ass levels full of ( go kill 10- boar quests ), all of raiding gear worthless and my talents blowing ( opinion at the time Warrior ).  So with that among multiple family related issues I ditched the game.  Now im just looking forward to The Chronicles Of Spellborn, which is pretty much the total opposite of WoW ( go figure ).  http://tcos.com/
  • taliftalif Member Posts: 141

    I hate to say it but this game will forever stay feeling old and stale due to the design of the game. Think about it for a sec what are you doing now that you where not doing at 60 2 years ago? Raiding in a new but small 1/4 content? raiding kara? using a flying mount that is only usable in a small 1/4 size zone? Doing the black moss? and so on.But if you really think about it you have been doing all of these things in some shape and form for about 2 years excluding the flying mounts.

    What i am really saying is this exp has not really introduced anything really new to the game besides a way to take away more of you time from you. Just think the next expansion will be about the same thing in a new shell and a new lvl cap. Oh i almost forgot the exp pack bought lots and i mean lots of fraction grinds for you to do. really another nice waste of time. Oh yeah jeweraly crafting i would even touch on that  

    And the 7 day wait for a raid  was not smart on there part at all. But what do i and other ppl know right they have 8mill subs right?

    Well for most of you that still play the game and know what i am talking about i feel your pain. I want to ask one last question how long did it take you to get bored with the exp after waiting for it for about 2 years?

    They need to come up with better ideas than just your grind lvls and grind rep and gear idea it is a dying idea. Well if i am wrong and you don't feel like that all not even a little i am sorry. Just really look beyond the name of the game and the hype.

    FFxi Retired
    Coh/Cov Retired
    Guild Wars/Retired
    WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07)
    VSOH/ retired
    AOC/retired that was fast :(
    Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV

  • taliftalif Member Posts: 141

    FFxi Retired
    Coh/Cov Retired
    Guild Wars/Retired
    WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07)
    VSOH/ retired
    AOC/retired that was fast :(
    Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV

  • narakuunarakuu Member Posts: 348

    I only played WoW probably a few months ... I just hated the cartoonish graphics... I dont care if they can get in alot of objects here and there.... I dont wanna feel like im a 7 year old playing "Lead the bunny to the apple tree's" kind of games... that said... I stopped paying them when I heard of the expansion and the features I was hearing about.... NOT REALLY BEING ANYTHING INTERESTING.

    If an expansion for a game as big as WoW releases an expansion with the new classes being what they were (shammy & paladin avaiable for both sides) I just feel like blizzard are being lazy. I dont feel like paying a lazy bum. Though the lazy bum is standing in a very good corner with his hat on the ground and people throwing money in it.... <.<

  • RuthgarRuthgar Member Posts: 730
    I quit WoW because my guild decided they would only take one Priest to Kara. We had 3 that were 70 when we started Kara.



    I could never get a group up to do the lower level dungeons, because I had bad luck with PUGs and I never completed Durnholde.

    I did complete that dungeon twice, but thanks to the lovely PUGs that would fly through and talk to Thrall while I was rezzing someone or drinking, I never was able to complete it. I found PUGs horrible in the Outlands, where before it was usually a 50% chance to complete one before. Being a Priest and having your guild shut you out, not being able to find a decent PUG, and waiting around for another group to hit 70 was just not acceptable to me. I started leveling a Mage up, and got him to 64 when I just said forget it.
  • alphajonnyalphajonny Member CommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Pipboy2000

    I was in a big raiding guild pre BC 3rd tank wrath/dreadnaught  we were on Noth in Naxxaramas with everything cleared prior to it, about a month before BC came out my guild stopped raiding and i quit on vacation.  So I come back from my vacation log on start playing, and I think to myself what the hell am i doing? I played the game for two years and then my reward for paying them a bonus ( the expansion ) is having to level 10 more boring ass levels full of ( go kill 10- boar quests ), all of raiding gear worthless and my talents blowing ( opinion at the time Warrior ).  So with that among multiple family related issues I ditched the game.  Now im just looking forward to The Chronicles Of Spellborn, which is pretty much the total opposite of WoW ( go figure ).  http://tcos.com/
    Ive noticed that almost all of your posts are promoting TCOS.  DOesnt matter what thread its in .

    Trying for some free advertising are we?  You also promote IGN.   Must be a Forum farmer.
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