Trivial Loot Code

Porfat

Is trivial loot code used often?   I hope not.  Thinking about trying this game but this a deal breaker for me.  For me it takes the fun out of getting a high level character if you can't go back slaughter the greys and take their stuff. 

I didn't like it when it was introduced in EQ and don't they will like it in Vanguard.

whitedelight

Wait.. so you will or will not buy this based off of how much loot you can get at level 35 for killing level 5s?

Porfat

Damm straight.   Not that i would spend a whole lot of time killing level 5's but for me it breaks the immersiveness if I kill them and they drop nothing only because I'm higher than X level.    To me that is one of the perks of gaining levels.   

whitedelight

Oh, I thought for some reason the perk of being a higher level is to be able to explore higher areas, kill mobs your level for loot to sell, be able to get the higher end mats for crafting, raid higher level things, look cool in your armor, use a better horse, get a flying mount once it is in the actual game, use your better skills. I guess your right though, getting loot off those mobs that are 20+ levels lower is deff a game breaker.

Amathe

"Breaks the immersiveness" Lmao. So you want a challenging game? Or do you want to farm mobs that are defenseless? It cracks me up when people talk about the "challenge" they want, and then oppose any system that will actually put them at risk.

Porfat

ONE of the perks.    No I'm not going to spend a majority or even a sizable minority of time killing greys but if that's my thing so what.   I guess this game is not as much a sandbox as some claim.     A sandbox game to me means the freedom to do what you want.  

My question was never really answered.   Is it just a few mobs or is every grey mob unlootable?

whitedelight

If you aren't going to spend much time doing this, then how is this a game breaker for you?

Porfat

Like I said it breaks the immersiveness of the game for me.   I understand it does not bother you.  There are probably things in games that bother you but I could care less about.   I'll leave it at that.

 

FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by whitedelight

If you aren't going to spend much time doing this, then how is this a game breaker for you?

Very good question!

Samuraisword

Trivial loot code is stupid. An overwhelming amount of people disliked it in EQ.

 No one likes being told they can't do something or that something is off limits. It's an artificial mechanic that does ruin immersion. How the hell are you supposed to know where to hunt to get specific drops of an appropriate level. Are you expected to read cheat sites with all the drops listed before you play?

whitedelight

In most games, you know the ones that have quests... the quests tell you where to go.

tooned

Loot codes are a pain. I know in EQ1 going back and spanking D'Vinns ass was a favorite pastime of mine. And when I did it I would always let whomever was hunting in the area loot him. If you arent twinking, the earrings that he dropped where pretty good loot.

Having it so that he wouldn't drop anything if I killed him is lame. It's not like I would sit there and farm hir or anything. Just if I was passing through the area I always made it a point to look him up.

Samuraisword

Originally posted by whitedelight

In most games, you know the ones that have quests... the quests tell you where to go.

I don't think you understand what I was saying.

Specific drops with certain stats will sometimes drop off specific mobs. If it's something you would like for your character, but don't become aware of it until after you have leveled past that mob range, you should be able to still loot it regardless of how easy that particular mob is. Punishing players with trivial loot code because they didn't read the cheat sites ahead of time is stupid.

As far as twinking goes, every developer by now should know that all items need minimum level/skill restrictions to prevent twinking. That is the most effective and realistic way to handle it., not trivial loot code.

 

whitedelight

There is also a difference in killing something that is 5 levels lower and killing something 10 level lower. Chances are if something is 10 levels lower than you, there is a piece of equipment that has better stats than that and is dropped off of mobs your level.

sepher

Originally posted by Porfat


Is trivial loot code used often?   I hope not.  Thinking about trying this game but this a deal breaker for me.  For me it takes the fun out of getting a high level character if you can't go back slaughter the greys and take their stuff. 
I didn't like it when it was introduced in EQ and don't they will like it in Vanguard.

There is a trivial loot code. I don't know what you mean exactly by 'often', but I imagine some items might be protected from the code that high level characters might need for some reason. I'm not sure though, but there is the typical trivial loot code in-game.

whitedelight

I think it helps from mobs being camped by higher levels when the lower levels come through trying to quest/grind.

bahamut1

Trivial loot code was added in EQ, and still exists in games today, because high level players would camp out a low level dungeon and farm items. The code was added in RESPONSE to an overwhelming amount of players complaining because they could not hunt in their level appropriate areas.

Fariic

Higher lvl toons could camp low lvl difficult mobs for rare drops that they could then flood the market with. 

Fargol

Originally posted by Samuraisword



 No one likes being told they can't do something or that something is off limits. It's an artificial mechanic that does ruin immersion. How the hell are you supposed to know where to hunt to get specific drops of an appropriate level. Are you expected to read cheat sites with all the drops listed before you play?

Uh, take any MMO and make a list of the "artificial mechanics" that limit what you can or can't do. You'll get a list about 10 pages long, single spaced.



Your post really makes no sense and I suspect you are simply trolling for attention.

Kyleran

Definitely one of the sillier threads of the day....  breaking immersion...right...

Lidane

Originally posted by bahamut1

Trivial loot code was added in EQ, and still exists in games today, because high level players would camp out a low level dungeon and farm items. The code was added in RESPONSE to an overwhelming amount of players complaining because they could not hunt in their level appropriate areas.

Exactly. It's a mechanic to keep people from farming lower level dungeons and areas to twink their alts. I really don't see the devs getting rid of anything like that, just because the alternative isn't all that popular.



Honestly, the complaint in the OP is silly.

ghostinfinit

A few points I'd like to make:

First, I've heard there is a trivial loot code.  Is it in effect?  I'm not sure.  Why?  With all the riding I do across thestra I've come across several named that I typically kill if no lower characters are in sight and most times I get drops, including rares.  My ranger is 35 and I've killed mobs as low as 15ish and gotten rares.

Second, I totally agree with a trivial loot code.  As an old school FFXI'er I've experienced the pain of trying to camp a particular mob for its drop to pimp out my toon only to lose it to a gil seller (gold seller)  or even another higher level character trying to get rich.  Even worse yet, people plant a bot or two in the spawn area.  The only alternative to a trivial loot code is making the majority of anything "uber"  soulbound.  Nobody wants that because you can't pass it to a lower level guildie or sell it. 

Players simply have to look at the big picture not just have a tantrum because they can't play godzilla in the lowbie areas and flood the market with the high end loot appropriate to the mob level.

Wizardry

The reason this NEEDS to be implemented is because of players like you[OP] that i really despise in a game.The high levels players go back and continuously kill low level mobs that low level players need to complete quests.There is another factor.Players that tend on using the drops they attain at the proper level ,are left out in the cold by high level players trying to manipulate/mass control drops for there personal monetary gain.

This is something that first saw when i played EQ2,and right away i was happy to see a game finally wake up and try to keep it a fair playing field for all.We don't need RMT farmers overkilling named drops,to control the game market.It gets even worse when they develope bots that can just sit in front of a named and kill it 24/7.I really hope  you can see the very simple logic as to why this should be in every game.Mature players think of the game mechanics that are good for ALL players,selfish players think only of what the game can do for them at any cost to other players.

ManJunk

Touchy subject.



The way I see it, if a high level player is camping a low level spawn for items that are useful to him and other players than by all means he should be able to do so with no penalty.  That being said, it's the game designers job to prevent such occurances. 



I think you guys are asking the wrong questions.

Why make a low level dungeon so worthwhile to a high level player?  To twink his low level toon?  If that's the case, he deserves to be allowed to do this.  They put in their time and obviously if you're complaining about it, you have not.



Why aren't there a million other spawns of equal importance to spread this problem out?  Too much work?  So no loot is a solution?  That makes no sense.



Why make the spawns so static?  If the dungeon is constantly botted and camped maybe the designers should be thinking about ways to avoid this instead of completely doing away with loot.



Why should someone get aggro from a group of grays with no possible escape and have to fight them with no reward?  If that's the case then do away with aggro.  Sounds like punishment for levelling.





A couple easy solutions...

You kill an npc that is clearly no match for you.  You wait for him to respawn but this time he brings a friend that is only aggro towards you, has no loot, and is one tough cookie to take down.  Every kill after that the npc will spawn more friends eventually making it impossible for the player to camp.

You kill an npc that is clearly no match for you.  He respawns again but this time he is friendly towards you because he already met his fate.  The high level player would only be able to go through the spawn once and afterwards must wait a specific amount of time before these npcs are attackable again.



I agree with the OP.  It does completely break away from immersion.

IMHO this is one of the reasons level based mmorpgs are worthless.  Restrictions like this kill it for a lot of people.

Samuraisword

Manjunk is right, trivial loot code should not be needed if the game is designed well. If there is something on the lower level mob that is worth farming over tackling something of a more appropriate level, then that is the developers fault. Static mobs and a game without enough alternative drops is a poorly designed game. Trivial code isn't realistic and therefore does kill immersion. Every time you kill a mob and get a trivial loot code message it's a reinforcement that the game is lacking and the developers are taking shortcuts.

Lidane

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Manjunk is right, trivial loot code should not be needed if the game is designed well. If there is something on the lower level mob that is worth farming over tackling something of a more appropriate level, then that is the developers fault. Static mobs and a game without enough alternative drops is a poorly designed game. Trivial code isn't realistic and therefore does kill immersion. Every time you kill a mob and get a trivial loot code message it's a reinforcement that the game is lacking and the developers are taking shortcuts.

You're both missing the point, though.



Developers design MMO's with the idea that players will explore as they level, and that they will stay in areas that are level-appropriate to get gear that suits the characters they're currently playing at that moment. They don't expect someone at level 50 to go back to a level 20 dungeon to farm it repeatedly, because there's no challenge for the player in that. The only reason any player would do that is greed.



In the original EverQuest, where I remember hearing the same exact arguments that both of you are making, the problem of higher level people camping and farming lower level dungeons to either twink out their alts or to glut the market with the items that dropped in those dungeons (thereby lowering their value for players in the long run) became a widespread issue. It got so bad that eventually, the devs introduced the Trivial Loot Code as a means to stop it.



The secondary effect of people slumming and farming content that was way below them-- glutting the market and lowering item value-- also had the added effect of making those dungeons unattractive at all, since most of the time, you could just buy the item from another player. There was no point in going into some dungeons because all of the items that dropped in there were already on sale for next to nothing, and chances were you'd just find a farmer inside taking all the spawns anyways. Many dungeons in EQ ended up sitting empty and unused while people grinded XP out in the open, which became even more obvious when the devs boosted dungeon XP just to try and get people back in there.



You might think that it's not a problem for a higher level player to farm lower level items because of the perceived value of those items, but the long term effect on a game can be costly. EQ was proof of that.



The first reactions to the Trivial Loot Code were pretty heated, if I remember right, but eventually, people accepted it, and it remained a part of the game, at least until I left. I don't know if it's still in there, but I'd imagine it is.



Of course, there is one other way to solve the issue of people farming content that  is many levels below them-- making an item immediately soulbound when it's looted, thereby removing any value from the item at all, except to someone who can actually use it. That works too. But there's a reason that some games use Trivial Loot Code. It's not to remove the challenge, but rather to combat player greed.