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LOTRO is not WoW clone - It is DDO done right
Rattrap
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
Many people, including myself often mused about
how LOTRO is nothing other than WOW clone with touch of polish and realistic graphic.
While nothing is wrong with that ... but it is not completely true.
Surely much of gameplay mechanics is very similar to WoW - but this is perfectly understandable - All this types of MMOrpg use very same mechanics - From EQ to Vanguard. So far everything seems very similar ...
But it takes some playing time to figure out the main diference.
In LOTRO you get extremely minimal EXP from killing mob. While completing quest gives you huge amount of EXP.
In terms grinding mobs is useless - while only way to advance is by doing Quests !
So you see - Lotro is bringing a new term to MMO -> QUEST GRINDING
Unlike any other MMO. Take WoW or Vanguard - you do have quests. And they do bring lot of EXP. But in LOTRO quests bring
99% of EXP while grind brings almost none.
Sounds familiar ?
yes.. Dungeons&Dragons Online
Game with great idea , but horrible execution.
DDO brought us the MMO purely based on quests and only Quests - Mob killing even didnt bring EXP . But its sole instancing mechanics - and no out of questing activityes were its downfall.
LOTRO simply sets it right.
DDO fixation on excelent quests. But this time not all is instanced. + EQ2like world with crafting.
Nice to see that LOTRO finaly fixes DDOs interesting but failed formula.
Now only if TURBINE would make some reverse engeenering. And apply what they learned from LOTRO to DDO...
Oh well,one can dream....
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
100% Agree.
Well done Turbine, they hit it right (finally). I suspect the second mass-mmo's birth here
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
LOTRO is the first game which I think will seriously challenge EVE for my MMORPG time...
Amarr Victor
LOTR is just another fantasy MMO clone ....
be a real man and look into WAR, AOC or fallen earth ...
even God's and heros and star trek will be better than this ...
WAR and AOC r both fantasy MMOs so hmm whats that called in your language...oh yeah A FANTASY CLONE!!!!!!!!!!!
war is different ... sure it has orcs .. but its not run of the mill fantasy ... its style has a certain iron mechanical feel to it .. youd know if you ever seen art for the table top game ...
AOC .. not really fantasy .. more like barbarian ... huge apish mofos fawking up shytt ...aint no pretty little elven queens with butterfly wings living in palaces made of flowers ....
and the rest .. speak for themselves
Give me a Williom Gibson cyberpunk MMOG and I'll forget orcs forever
Until then... let me just stick to the current best (most polished, fun to play etc..) ones... the title for what LOTRO has some chance now.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Give me a Williom Gibson cyberpunk MMOG and I'll forget orcs forever
Until then... let me just stick to the current best (most polished, fun to play etc..) ones... the title for what LOTRO has some chance now.
DB
yes you are a very smart man ... i could never argue with a person who loves William Gibson ...
i too would flock to a WG cyberpunk game and never look back at jedi's or wizards again ....
Not to pee on your fire there Rat, logically it's sound however...
Funny thing really 'LOTRO is DDO done right'.. If you take into account DDO is actally PnP D&D directly translated in which case the game fits the IP. DDO wouldn't be 'like' PnP D&Ding in the sence of partying, dungeon exploring, exp gain AFTER questing which FYI is how PnP D&D works (the GM/DM offers EXP based on how the players reacted/RP'ed/whatever after the adventure is done or at the end of the night... Anyone contests this please go read the dungeon masters handbook) , if it wasn't then it would be techally what NWN/BG is an adapation of D&D into gaming, thats where players get confuzzled.. Personally I think the only thing 'wrong' with DDO is soloable content, I've never seen a GM/DM with one person at a table before.. DDO is exactally what it's ment to be Dungeons & Dragons Online...
Anywho main point being that besides the actal engine both games are nout alike however BOTH fit their IP very well (serprizingly liking PVPM) like i've said before LOTRO is basically for the players wanting an MMO Adventure, DDO is basically an online engine for D&D itself it's not technically an MMO by 'MMO standards' however is does what it's ment to do perfectly, it's just that when you affix that MMO tag to it players start to expect a game to 'have' certain things (eg EXP after kill) anything that countermans that is deemed 'wrong', thats the flaw of DDO people see it as an MMO, which it clearly isn't.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Dunno mate...
Who ever told you DDO is perfect conversion of D&D tabletop - and NWN, or BG isnt ... was lying
D&D is not about dungeon crawling. Sure Turbine developers thought " It is called Dungeons and Dragons -> so it is a game about Dragon in a dungeon! "
I dont know who told you D&D is about entering a dungeon with a group of people. Well perhaps it was 40 years ago when it was invented. So perhaps DDO captures feeling of D&D 40 years ago + adds funny twitch combat to it !?
A real D&D campain could be easily played with only one player , that never even lifts a sword , and is actually a mutated pinguin. In fact it can be everything and anything and all this combined twice.
In fact even most standard D&D modules, happen more than 80% in wildeness , and involve traveling large continents...
So where is DDO in relation to that ?
Interesting idea - with lot of mistakes.
Mistakes that so far LOTRO seems to fix
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
- The game graphics are very good
- There are alot of quests
- Gameplay is good
- It is good for newcomers to the genre
- PvP is limited (monster PvP only).
- You can solo to max level if you want to, but grouping is also fine
But I'm still left with a numbering of unanswered questions:
- Is there anything unique and interesting about the gameplay, or is it still tank/healer/dps
- Is there much challenge available for an experienced MMO'r
- How much gameplay is available. Will the quests run out after a few weeks (months?) of play as in DDO
- Roughly how many hours gameplay will be required to reach max level
- What do people do after they have reached max level? Does the game become raid-centric?
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Sorry Rat but I'm actally a D&D player, and it's actally QUITE true, what your aurguing there is location (which I do actally agree DDO needs more outdoorsy areas which it's being worked apon) but not machanics which your OP is basically about. Having played a lot of what WotC and WW have to offer, even tho I never said 'perfect converson' (i actally said 'translion') DDO is closer to actal D&D then BG/NWN could be, granted DDO is 'missing' some things i'd lke to see in (list of PnP diffences: http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/PnP_differences) that BG/NWN includes but unlike BG/NWN it could be updated at any point (and for free might I add) although it's swings and roundabouts there as areas of each can outmatch the other, perhaps to put it better DDO captures the PnP 'experience' better.
Your two main aurguements are how EXP is gained and location, which like i said from a MMO perpective DDO is 'wrong', but like I said DDO isn't, but for the IP it represents it works..
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
- Is there anything unique and interesting about the gameplay, or is it still tank/healer/dps
Depends what you mean by unique. If you mean anything new that you won't have seen before and gives the game it's unique selling point, the answer is a no. Anyone who's played WoW, DDO, etc will pick the game up and understand instantly how to play it. LOTRO's uniqueness comes form the fact it's set in Middle Earth, other than that it's standard fare.
- Is there much challenge available for an experienced MMO'r
In terms of gameplay, no. I've done a few of the instanced and group encounters now and they are fun but not on the same sort of learning curve as raiding Naxx and having to put real effort into learning the encounters. That's not necessarily a bad thing though as you won't have to keep wiping over and over again until you crack it.
- How much gameplay is available. Will the quests run out after a few weeks (months?) of play as in DDO
Taken me about a week to get to the early 20's and i've not run out of quests, if anything i've had to abandon loads so the replay value on it with an alt seems quite high. That said, the quests are very much 'go here, kill this' and don't generate much excitement until you get an NPC you recognise from the books
- Roughly how many hours gameplay will be required to reach max level
Tough one to answer. My levelling has definitely started slowing down and quest chains are getting noticeably longer. It really depends on how many hours you put in and if you're playing to level or playing to enjoy the game.
- What do people do after they have reached max level? Does the game become raid-centric?
Again, tough one to answer but there hasn't been talk of huge 40 man raids or anything at present but there do seem to be a fair few instanced dungeons
Overall, it's a solid but not spectacular fantasy MMO with very few surprises for those who've played others. The LOTRO setting gives it a nice little hook to get players in and it playsd a bit more 'maturely' than something like WoW with more in it for the RP folk and less for the 'phat lewt kidz'. It will pull people in who are getting bored after two years in WoW but i'm not too sure on it's longevity.
CoH/CoV - D-Zol/Kinslayer
Auto Assault - Slayer
WoW, LOTRO, DDO - Kinsul
Matrix Online - Tempest
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
All in all this is definitely a quest based game. It will be a good game for people interested in the story and also for people wanting to do Roleplaying. There are a ton of skills for roleplayers in the game. Such as different facial expressions using the mood_ command, smoking pipeweed with different smoke rings, playing music using different instruments and actually making songs using 24 different keys on the keyboard, etc. The game is not a raid centric game! The developers have stated that equivalent gear will come from crafting, raiding, and small group quests with a chance at solo drops as well (but the solo drops will be extremely rare). So this will not be like World of Warcraft, where you have 1 type of game from 1-59 (well now 1-69) and then a different type of game at max level.
Hopefully that helps to clear up some of your questions.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
AGree with most of it, altho iam not getting less exitement from questing till i see so ingame chars. Iam very exited about the game and iam enjoying the beta for the full 100%.
After gotting mega bored with wow after the release of the Burning more of the same crusade i started to play Vanguard and today i canceled my Vanguard subscription because i like lotro so much and only playing that sinds i got into beta.
Only thing that worries me allot is what indeed happends after reaching max level. I know they gonna update the game eveyr now and then with new lands (Rohan, Gondor, Mordor etc.) but i really hope they have something great to kill time before that happends.
In wow we had raids every evening to AQ or BWL or Naxx later on. That was great fun, time consuming but fun. I wouldnt mind if something like that would be done in lotro. Moria for example, end boss the Balrog or whatever, Issengard to kill Sauruman / Grima etc. Just naming stuff lol. Thats my only consurn. Also if they do that i hope its not the 40 man scale raids but 20 or something.
Maybe that sounds like its gonna be to much of a clone, but it worked for allot of folks and created allot of fun.
Cant wait for the preorder.
In lotro, you grind quests to level as fast as possible.
in WoW, you.....grind quests to level as fast as possible...
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Sorry Rat but I'm actally a D&D player, and it's actally QUITE true, what your aurguing there is location (which I do actally agree DDO needs more outdoorsy areas which it's being worked apon) but not machanics which your OP is basically about. Having played a lot of what WotC and WW have to offer, even tho I never said 'perfect converson' (i actally said 'translion') DDO is closer to actal D&D then BG/NWN could be, granted DDO is 'missing' some things i'd lke to see in (list of PnP diffences: http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/PnP_differences) that BG/NWN includes but unlike BG/NWN it could be updated at any point (and for free might I add) although it's swings and roundabouts there as areas of each can outmatch the other, perhaps to put it better DDO captures the PnP 'experience' better.
Your two main aurguements are how EXP is gained and location, which like i said from a MMO perpective DDO is 'wrong', but like I said DDO isn't, but for the IP it represents it works..
I dont get it mate?
What are you trying to say? That DDO is more similar mechanic wise to D&D ?
BG was based on AD&D and surely great changes had to be made. NWN was based on 3e , and again some huge changes were made. DDO is based on 3.5e and again changes were made.
Thats mechanics
But the spirit of D&D !
Dont tell me that for you spirit of D&D is spending your time between Tavern and Dungeon.
And having tactical - thinking combat of D&D represented as chaotic click fest ?
Where is travelling. Exploration? Where is visiting locations that are not underground?
Where is mistery , intrigue? Where is frigin EVIL ALIGNMENT!?!?!
Where is roleplay? Where is livin a character instead of just hacking at your mouse ?
Sorry mate, thats not D&D in anyones book
Still, i say SOME ideas they had for DDO were good.
Like Doing great PnP like quests , instead of pointless grind. That indeed was close to d&d.
But than they went and spoiled it all.
By making game twitch based.By making it one big INSTANCE crap.By removing everything else except dungeons.
They simply killed it , because there is no world
DDO would perhaps be a good game if it was not MMO.
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Not quite true. In WOW, depending on your class, (i.e. Hunter, Rogue etc) it can be far more efficient to spend your time grinding than running quests. I leveled up 4 chars to 60 pretty much on quests, (Priest, Pally, Druid, Mage) but then leveled a Lock up and spent far more time grinding than questing....
While the quest created chars took me anywhere from 10-16 days played....that Lock took me no more than 6 days played. Sure, I grouped up quests where I could (expecially kill tasks) but I didn't waste much time on any quest that forced me to travel around much.
In LotRo the diffrence is night and day.... you get so little exp from grinding its completely not worth doing.... (as you noted with your 99% figure) while in WOW it is quite easy to limit your exp to as little at 20-30% of the total.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thanks for the input guys! I've been considering doing the Founders thing with LOTRO - 2 bills for a lifetime is my kind of price
I like DDO, but as Rattrap has stated - it ain't as D&D as NWN [or NWN2], but it fun [for a while]. Be nice to see them retroactively do a Founders thing with DDO, too...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
What would be nice is for them to do some kind of station pass to play both LOTRO and DDO
As for Founders deal.
Just as DDO , LOTRO will greatly depend on constant content updates. (because there is simply no way to have endless number of scripted quests of this quality)
At this stage , i think you can blaze trough LOTRO in 2 months. And although its replayability is good (other races have diferent questlines) I am just not sure if LOTRO will "hold water" for long.
What Turbine will do for LOTRO (and i speculate) is many expansion pack (but not free ones)
They have proven to be able to do good quality quests and content in short time - after all they have lots of experience with DDO which basically runs on same engine.
So even with founders benefit, one will need to dish $ for expansions every now and than
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
they've done something right because they have some of my money
Lord of the rings online cannot be a fantasy clone since most , if not all of fantasy clones are Lord of the rings book series clones!
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
If you re-read my post you will find not once did i say "Tolkien invented Fantasy" or "Lord of the rings was the first fantasy book" , although it did look like i ment that , i did not i was just saying most content in fantasy mmo's could easily be mistaken as content from Lord of the rings.
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)