Diary is good, liked the 2 first parts.. This last seemed like 2/3 of other games so it became a bit er.. long.
Could only imagine how it would feel to buy a system for probably over $2000 and then not be able to play a game at satisfying performance. Not that I'm wanna be seen like a jerk or anything but my newest part of my computer is 1.5 years hold an other parts call in at almost 3... I run at balanced, max and never goes below 20 (in or out of town). Normaly, this game should be a walk in the park for your kind of specs.
Vista is optimized at 3gb of ram. It uses 1gb just to run vista. You don't "need" to get a 3rd, but it has been recommended in every article on vista. Most of the info I get also comes from personall friends and familly that are programers, bebuggers, or IT profesionals. 3 gigs on XP is overkill as it can cause problems when you get over 2 gigs, but for vista it's pretty one of those must have things, like a sound card with Open AL support.
As I've said, though, my performance hasn't taken a massive hit for only having 2 GB RAM, though. I'm sure I'll eventually add 1 or 2 more gigs, but at the moment, I haven't hit any sort of real slowdown.
There have been moments in Vanguard where my performance has slowed down, but I suspect that's a lack of across-the-board optimization of the game client on Sigil's part more than it is a hardware issue on my end. And because my other games, including CoH/CoV, which isn't even optimized for Vista to begin with, all still run at more than playable levels, upgrading right now simply isn't needed.
I could easily do it, but for now, I'm waiting. I just got this system set up, and am still putting it through its paces. Thus far, 2GB works like a charm. If it ever slows down, I'll add more RAM.
Vista is optimized at 3gb of ram. It uses 1gb just to run vista. You don't "need" to get a 3rd, but it has been recommended in every article on vista. Most of the info I get also comes from personall friends and familly that are programers, bebuggers, or IT profesionals. 3 gigs on XP is overkill as it can cause problems when you get over 2 gigs, but for vista it's pretty one of those must have things, like a sound card with Open AL support.
As I've said, though, my performance hasn't taken a massive hit for only having 2 GB RAM, though. I'm sure I'll eventually add 1 or 2 more gigs, but at the moment, I haven't hit any sort of real slowdown.
There have been moments in Vanguard where my performance has slowed down, but I suspect that's a lack of across-the-board optimization of the game client on Sigil's part more than it is a hardware issue on my end. And because my other games, including CoH/CoV, which isn't even optimized for Vista to begin with, all still run at more than playable levels, upgrading right now simply isn't needed.
I could easily do it, but for now, I'm waiting. I just got this system set up, and am still putting it through its paces. Thus far, 2GB works like a charm. If it ever slows down, I'll add more RAM.
I apologize. I'm not saying go out and get another gig, I was just pointing out one small aspect of Vista and something that could help with the performance problems you ARE having. As it stands you are only running VG on 1gig of ram because vista is using other to run, and this will cause performance issues; especially when VG has to process gigs of information.
I was looking over your screnshots and at some of the complaints you had with the image quality and performance in some of the areas.
In the last set of screens you are inside a building and stated that your performance dropped and that you had the gama set to 125% with a torch on. There were a few problems with the SS, like the lack of light from your torch, and several effects that you should be seeing indoors, like the light coming in through the windows. I don't know what your other settings are at, specifically lighting, but if you have the lighting options on then you have a problem with your rig. I hate to say, it's not so much the game, but the stuff your running. You should be getting better performance indoors, typically my fps will double when I go inside a building.
In another pic you posted of your raki standing in a field you said that you get anywere from 15-30 fps in that enviroment. That's a problem. On my 7950 I'm getting upwards of 50 fps in the same area, if you aren't getting that kind of performance with the card you have then there is a real problem.
I understand that it can seem like, because you are running another game on the same system with better performance, that it's the games fault. However this isn't always so. CoX may not be optimized for Vista, but neither is GW and it benchmarked as one of the best MMO's to run with Vista and an 8800 without having to download a sound emulator or beta drivers for the gfx card. To put it into perspective, the benchmark was better for GW then it was for WoW. Even WoW has issues with Vista and the 8800 combo.
You keep saying that your performance is OK but eveything else you write is screaming that there is a problem.
The infant drivers for the 8800 aren't very good. It's been recommendedt that you use beta drivers from someone else; I don't know what drivers these are or where you get them, just that the drivers for the 8800 made by Nvidia have issues. This I believe is were you are having most of your problems. You should be seeing your torch and the game shouldn't be that dark, you should also be getting better performance then my 7950, but only 5% more performance.
AA problems are common and not just with VG. It's a conflict between the software and the hardware and not that big a deal to solve by turning off AA in your Gfx card settings; you won't even notice a visual dif. VG is also one of MANY games that ships without AA support; a lot of games have it added at a later date.
I'm not dogging you, not hating; I just wanted to point some things out. You are having some technical problems and you are under the impression that everything you are experiencing is due to optimization of the game. Once the game is optimized the only dif you will see is faster load times, better zoning across chunks and less hitching as the code is loaded to your system better. Also, these technical problems seem to be bothering you because you mention them throughout your diary.
The latest maximum PC had a piece in it on tweaking windows for better performance. If you do some hunting on the net you will be able to find a lot of tips to improve your experience with Vista and the 8800. Me, personally, considering the money the 8800 and vista costs, I would do everything I can to get it to run at it's fullest. As it is, with some of the things you've mentioned in your diary, your not getting near the performance you should be.
You are having some technical problems and you are under the impression that everything you are experiencing is due to optimization of the game.
That's because the longer I play, the more I'm becoming convinced that the problems in this game are largely client-side, and are due to poor optimization and poor coding when they tweaked Unreal 2.5 to run this game.
Too many users with too many different system setups are having issues similar to mine. It's clearly much more than a hardware, OS, or driver issue, and has to do with the way the game is coded. That's not something that I can fix., no matter how many Vista tweaks I use for my system, how much RAM I add, or how many settings I change in order to run things. That's why I'm only mentioning any issues in passing. For the most part, they're out of my hands.
The Anti-Aliasing issue on the graphics card is something I can control, but the rest seems to come down to the game itself, just based on the sheer number of people having similar problems. I find it very difficult to believe that everything comes down to hardware, or to Vista. A good portion of it has to come from the game itself.
in response to another comment, Vista does not take 1G, I got 2G of ram and Vista takes up about 30%, (around 600M).
I have to agree with this. Vista only uses about 28-30% of my total RAM as well, and that's with every background program turned off.
I don't know where people are getting the 1GB figure, but for me it's using way less.
Minimum system requirements for vista are a 1.5 ghz cpu and 512 mb of ram, and as we all know when it comes to software the minimum system requirements are just about useless.
That's 512mb just to run vista at it's bare minimum, and trying to run anything outside of the OS isn't going to get you far. What's the next step from 513mb, that's right a gig.
Vista is also optimized to run with a total system ram of 3gigs were as XP is optimized at 2gigs. Running 2 gigs in vista and VG is like trying to run 1gig on XP and VG.
My point has been that at 2gigs with Vista and the 8800 isn't going to perform the way it should.
Things like lighting aren't a problem in the game, it's in the rig running it. Others are having problems; you're right. Most of the problems are driver and hardware related and it's upsetting those people because the game doesn't run the way that they want it to.
You don't have to agree with me, or believe that the the fresh off the line hardware you're using could possibly be a problem; because we all know that hardware is never at fault, but a lot of the issues you pointed out are not a part of poor coding and a crappy engine. It's crappy drivers and memery use being pushed to the limits on an operating system that is known to have issues running games, and a gfx card that is also widely known to have very real driver problems. A lot of people screamed about performance when they run the game in SLI mode; they blamed it on poor coding and a crappy engine, and then they found out that VG like a lot of other games isn't ready to be run in SLI. Those people screamed it wasn't there system either; guess what, they were wrong. Many Vista owners have also resorted to running the game in XP compatability mode or having both vista and xp on thier HD so that they can still run games in XP.
Are you using DX10 pachaged with vista? If you are there's a problem because VG isn't coded for DX10 yet. Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
Edit: I just want to point this out. On my system running XP I'm using about 15% mem. and that's without turning anything off and a few other things I have running in the background. If you're using 30% of your 2 gigs with everything in the background turned off, then how could you possibly argue that an extra gig of memory is not needed. 30% is a HUGE chunk of performance if you have everything turned off! And considering that damn near EVERY review written has suggested running the game with 2 gigs, how could you argue that an extra gig of ram wouldn't solve some of your performance problems and lay all of the blame on the software. I wasn't saying you HAD to get an extra gig, just that an extra gig would help with some of the performance.
30% with everything turned off. Now through in your sound card and VG on top of that 30% and your talking about quite a bit of memory usage there.
Edit again: 1 gig isn't 1k megs. I can't remember exactly but I believe it's something around the 800 meg range. If vista is using 600 megs then how far off is it really from a gig? But I guess it's easier to just blame software then to accually trouble shoot hardware to see if maybe there is some sort of incompatability between it and the obviously faulty software.
Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
My rig is less than a week old, and was fully tested for compatibility with Vista, not only as a whole, but with each individual component that was installed, from the RAM, to the video and sound cards all the way down to the case and power supply. Each part was also tested to make sure it works, and the whole thing has been benchmarked twice to make sure that it runs at a good clip. All of the parts were still factory sealed when I paid for them, and I had two friends, who are IT professionals for a living, help me assemble it and test it, even doing overnight stress tests on the machine to see what it could handle and what it couldn't.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
in response to another comment, Vista does not take 1G, I got 2G of ram and Vista takes up about 30%, (around 600M).
I have to agree with this. Vista only uses about 28-30% of my total RAM as well, and that's with every background program turned off.
I don't know where people are getting the 1GB figure, but for me it's using way less.
Minimum system requirements for vista are a 1.5 ghz cpu and 512 mb of ram, and as we all know when it comes to software the minimum system requirements are just about useless.
That's 512mb just to run vista at it's bare minimum, and trying to run anything outside of the OS isn't going to get you far. What's the next step from 513mb, that's right a gig.
Vista is also optimized to run with a total system ram of 3gigs were as XP is optimized at 2gigs. Running 2 gigs in vista and VG is like trying to run 1gig on XP and VG.
My point has been that at 2gigs with Vista and the 8800 isn't going to perform the way it should.
Things like lighting aren't a problem in the game, it's in the rig running it. Others are having problems; you're right. Most of the problems are driver and hardware related and it's upsetting those people because the game doesn't run the way that they want it to.
You don't have to agree with me, or believe that the the fresh off the line hardware you're using could possibly be a problem; because we all know that hardware is never at fault, but a lot of the issues you pointed out are not a part of poor coding and a crappy engine. It's crappy drivers and memery use being pushed to the limits on an operating system that is known to have issues running games, and a gfx card that is also widely known to have very real driver problems. A lot of people screamed about performance when they run the game in SLI mode; they blamed it on poor coding and a crappy engine, and then they found out that VG like a lot of other games isn't ready to be run in SLI. Those people screamed it wasn't there system either; guess what, they were wrong. Many Vista owners have also resorted to running the game in XP compatability mode or having both vista and xp on thier HD so that they can still run games in XP.
Are you using DX10 pachaged with vista? If you are there's a problem because VG isn't coded for DX10 yet. Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
Edit: I just want to point this out. On my system running XP I'm using about 15% mem. and that's without turning anything off and a few other things I have running in the background. If you're using 30% of your 2 gigs with everything in the background turned off, then how could you possibly argue that an extra gig of memory is not needed. 30% is a HUGE chunk of performance if you have everything turned off! And considering that damn near EVERY review written has suggested running the game with 2 gigs, how could you argue that an extra gig of ram wouldn't solve some of your performance problems and lay all of the blame on the software. I wasn't saying you HAD to get an extra gig, just that an extra gig would help with some of the performance.
30% with everything turned off. Now through in your sound card and VG on top of that 30% and your talking about quite a bit of memory usage there.
Edit again: 1 gig isn't 1k megs. I can't remember exactly but I believe it's something around the 800 meg range. If vista is using 600 megs then how far off is it really from a gig? But I guess it's easier to just blame software then to accually trouble shoot hardware to see if maybe there is some sort of incompatability between it and the obviously faulty software.
1 gig is 1024 mb.
As for the high Vista memory issue, congratz on perpetuating the myth
I personally will wait about 6months-1yr before changing myself but heres food for thought and spread the word.
Enjoying your observations and comments. I pretty much agree with all you said and basically experienced the same thing. I know it's early but it seems like you won't be going beyond the 10-day trial.
HI In regards to your missing names i have just solved this one on mine on another post Check the AA on your GFX card menu, it needs to be set to let programme decide or switched off, The game doesnt support AA and if its switched on it forces itself onto the game and causes the names to disapper, the windows you open will also produce an eraser effect deleting names whereever it is moved on your screen, you will see the names around the edge of you screen when you pan teh NPC into that area Give that a try and see if it cures the names issue
Vanguard isn't the only game having it's problems with Vista. However, most of these other games have made available a patch that counters whatever vista is blocking, ect. If vanguard doesn't have thier own patch for vista yet, give them time. I'm sure they are working on it as we type in these forums. As for Vista, like most of the people replying and reading these forums, I too, will wait until it's more stable. For those of you unlucky not to be able to afford a state of the art system, I know how you feel. I run a decent system and can play nearly almost every game but a selective few with max settings. I use about 5% of my memory for XP. Of course it's up and down depending on wether I have multiple windows or programs open. But to me, 5% compared to nearly a gig of usuage for vista; there just isn't a comparison. I will stick with XP like I said until like 98, they decide not to support it anymore. Good luck to all of you using Vista and have patience in the game companies rumbling to get a working patch for it.
LOL,are you that dumb?this isn't a console game where you make the game for only type of setup geesh,there are hundreds/thousands of different PC setups and config's/bios/drivers ,it's endless.All the options to fine tune your settings are there if you want but NO they are not neccessary.I am not defending VANGUARD either i am defending the idea behind compatibility.
Would anyone and i mean anyone at all expect a high poly game to run on a low end machine without some fine tuning?I would hope not one person,because it would show your lack of common sense.If all the dummies had it there way,all the games would still play on your nintendo 64.Even when microsoft gives its seal of approval to drivers,it doesn't mean 100% of every config will work properly with that driver.They have a guildline they go by like say 90% of there tests pass,then the driver gets the WHQL approval.
Consoles are 99.9% foolproof as far as compatibility goes,thats a no brainer.PC's are not again a no brainer.
BTW those .ini tweaks you see would effect EVERY game out there in some form or another,so it's not like these tweaks are independant of Vanguard only.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
My rig is less than a week old, and was fully tested for compatibility with Vista, not only as a whole, but with each individual component that was installed, from the RAM, to the video and sound cards all the way down to the case and power supply. Each part was also tested to make sure it works, and the whole thing has been benchmarked twice to make sure that it runs at a good clip. All of the parts were still factory sealed when I paid for them, and I had two friends, who are IT professionals for a living, help me assemble it and test it, even doing overnight stress tests on the machine to see what it could handle and what it couldn't.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
I'm not taking it personally; just trying to help.
When your system isn't rendering light properly, wich you clearly indicated in one of you screenshots, then you are having a driver issue. You torch not showing has nothing to do with the game, it's your card not rendering properly.
Just because your system is a week old and you had it tested to be compatible doesn't mean it's compatable with every piece of software on the market, or that the drivers you're using for you gfx card are compatabile with VG. There are thread after thread of people complaining that the released drivers from nvidia are not working right. Just because the drivers you have are compatible with the card you have doesn't mean the drivers are good. ATI users have suffered with this since the beginning of time, and one of the reason I stopped using ATI cards and switched to Nvidia.
And what myth? I listed the minimum riquirements for vista, that's no myth. That's from Microsoft themself. Every benchmark run in every magazine and website I read has also indicated that Vista is a resource hog. The OP and another poster both confirmed this with the amount of mem. thier systems are using under vista.
And 1024 is 512x2 and not 1gb. doesn't work that way, never has, and that's information handed down to me from a software programmer.
You're obviously using the released drivers for your card from Nvidia; so you answered your question. You should check out some sites that reviewed those drivers and see what people have said. You won't be suprised becaue I've been trying to say it for 2 days now.
About the technical issues though....don't you all that are argueing so vehemently about computer settings and drivers etc even get the point?
The point is that not ONE MMORPG I've ever played needed this kind of tweaking and peeking on a high end computer to play comfortably. Are you telling me that Vanguard (a so called "third generation" game) can't run a diag on your computer and make the appropriate settings? Or if it can't then it could tell you.."Vanguard required this XXXX driver for your video card...please click this link to download and install"
I know it's asking a whole bunch though for this level of programming sophistication from a developer like Brad who motto should be "Sadism...it does a body good".
Keep on trucking Lidane. So far I'm sure you've saved a lot of people their money.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
As someone who started with a Wood Elf in Vanguard (same starting area as the Raki) I'd like to point out that the missing death animations for the dryads in the starting area has nothing to do with your setup, Lidane. It happened to me as well, and we have very different rigs. Far as I could tell, those critters just don't have any death anims.
I've since moved to Tanvu for my main character (now running a half-elf Monk) and the creatures there definitely have death animations and overall, it's much better as far as that goes. There's other problems, but I think the dryads just didn't get finished properly in their rush to get it out the door.
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"Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life."
I just finally got the game done updating this morning before work. I hopped on for all of about 5 minutes and my only comment so far is the low amount of character customization.
I made a dwarf cleric just to test the customization options and was highly dissappointed. There are only 4 hairstyles, and 4 faces as mentioned a million other times on these boards, but what is worse than that is that all the faces look almost exactly the same. Sure you can adjust every part of the face to some degree, but it really all just looks the same. And for dwarves there are basically only 2 hairstyles 1 that looks like hagrid from Harry potter, and 2 that are bald on top with a pony tail in the back.
I am hopeful that they will add more faces and hairstyles soon enough though.
Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
My rig is less than a week old, and was fully tested for compatibility with Vista, not only as a whole, but with each individual component that was installed, from the RAM, to the video and sound cards all the way down to the case and power supply. Each part was also tested to make sure it works, and the whole thing has been benchmarked twice to make sure that it runs at a good clip. All of the parts were still factory sealed when I paid for them, and I had two friends, who are IT professionals for a living, help me assemble it and test it, even doing overnight stress tests on the machine to see what it could handle and what it couldn't.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
I'm not taking it personally; just trying to help.
When your system isn't rendering light properly, wich you clearly indicated in one of you screenshots, then you are having a driver issue. You torch not showing has nothing to do with the game, it's your card not rendering properly.
Just because your system is a week old and you had it tested to be compatible doesn't mean it's compatable with every piece of software on the market, or that the drivers you're using for you gfx card are compatabile with VG. There are thread after thread of people complaining that the released drivers from nvidia are not working right. Just because the drivers you have are compatible with the card you have doesn't mean the drivers are good. ATI users have suffered with this since the beginning of time, and one of the reason I stopped using ATI cards and switched to Nvidia.
And what myth? I listed the minimum riquirements for vista, that's no myth. That's from Microsoft themself. Every benchmark run in every magazine and website I read has also indicated that Vista is a resource hog. The OP and another poster both confirmed this with the amount of mem. thier systems are using under vista.
And 1024 is 512x2 and not 1gb. doesn't work that way, never has, and that's information handed down to me from a software programmer.
You're obviously using the released drivers for your card from Nvidia; so you answered your question. You should check out some sites that reviewed those drivers and see what people have said. You won't be suprised becaue I've been trying to say it for 2 days now.
Wow... just wow... try to find a hardware guy for your info. hey, 512 is 256x2 , hey 256 is 128x2 which is 64x2. Guess what sparky, it does work that way. bits, bytes,megabytes, gigabytes all based on 8bits.
it will always be a multiple of 8 but if you don't want to take my word for it, go buy 1gig of ram, put it in your pc, and look at the post with memory active, that number will (depending on your bios) show the number of bytes or mb.
Did you even bother to read the link i posted? The myth is that Vista uses 1gb ram on idle "or just to run" it Idles at about 300or so mb, yes its a big number, and the min req are for 512mb so you would slog along like a slug but it would run. Everyone knows each iteration of windows hogs more and more memory... its the numbers that are important, please don't throw out info you pick up without having good sources.
I understand you're trying to help her get more performance, but currently she is giving a view on what the avg user (not so avg since she can throw together a system) may or may not see in VG.
1,073,741,824 bytes, equal to 10243, or 230 bytes. This is the definition used for computer memory sizes, and most often used in computer engineering, computer science, and most aspects of computer operating systems. The IEC recommends that this unit should instead be called a gibibyte (abbreviated GiB), as it conflicts with SI units used for bus speeds and the like. HP states that Microsoft normally adheres to this definition [3]
Enjoying the diary, as I've said before, it's good to see a real attempt to convery first impressions that aren't coming from a overly biased standpoint.
Just to comment briefly on the hardware issues, Vanguard is a resource hog, no denying that, and it is intended to be scaleable to hardware that hasn't been manufactured yet - that's what the highest settings are for.
1) Vanguard is happy under WindowsXP with 2gigs of system ram, on Vista it's far happier with 3gigs.
2) 8800 users have been experiencing problems, not all of them, but definately a higher number, there are driver problems and particularly DX10, Vista, 8800 problems that a number of games have, VG certainly does but it's not the only culprit by along way.
3) With any high requirement game, running either low-end or the latest high-end hardware/OS/Drivers/DX - nearly always requires a fair bit of optimising tweaking hairpulling editing etc
If you change any of the criteria above you can probably resolve most issues, whether or not every game should run well with every rig, it is just a sad fact of life with PC's that aren't in the median of the available tech versus requirements.
I'm guessing that if you tested TextureDetailWorld=4 to TextureDetailWorld=1 in vgclient.ini you'd see quite alot of improvement to fps. When more optimised Nvidia & Vista drivers/patches come out you can probably set it back again. As others have mentioned you could also gain more speed by optimising the Vista/DX!)/Nvidia drivers, I can't really offer any advice there. The choice about whether you improve your performance or not, is entirely yours of couse. As I don't have anything like your rig and won't be touching VIsta with a pole for at least 6 more months I can't confirm what's the best optimisation for you I'm afraid.
Today was a non-gaming day, simply because I felt like it. I'm not as obsessive about MMO's, or spending all my time online as I used to be, and I decied that I would take a break from everything-- Vanguard, WoW, surfing the web, etc. I posted a few times in this thread, but most of my day was spent with a good book in my hands.
Well, I did briefly log in to Vanguard to try the Anti-Aliasing fix, which worked. The next time I sit down to play, I'll be able to see names again. Other than that, though, I didn't stay in long.
Back when I played EverQuest, this wasn't even an option for me. I would spend about as much time in the game as I did at work every day. Grinding out levels, camping spawns for gear or quest items, doing weapon and armor quests just to keep up with my guildmates, raiding, etc. The game literally was the center of my life, and little things like socializing with real-life friends, going to the movies, and reading good books fell by the wayside. In retrospect, it really wasn't all that much fun to spend so much time in a virtual world, and I'm determined not to go back to that.
Once I quit EQ, I made it my mission to find an MMO that didn't require 6-8+ hours a day of time in order to advance. I wanted a game that I could still play and enjoy, but which would also grant me the ability to get back out in the world, and not be such a shut-in. I started doing other things-- joining a gym, trying disc golf with the boyfriend, taking cooking lessons, catching up on my reading, etc. It's also when I picked up console gaming again, because consoles are infinitely more casual. I can play for a couple of hours, save my progress, and set the game aside until I'm ready to pick things up again.
That sort of casual interaction is what I look for in an MMO. I don't need to have the top tier raid weapons anymore, or the biggest, flashiest armor. As long as I can play at my own pace and still advance, and still earn decent enough weapons and armor to compete, but without spending hours and days and weeks on end stuck in raids, I'm good.
Is Vanguard a game like that? Or is it more of the same that I got in EQ? It's too soon to say just yet.
Day 4
OK. Something is DEFINITELY wrong with the way this game handles memory.
Got a call from the boyfriend when I was at work-- Fry's is throwing a bunch of stuff on sale, including the matched set of RAM that I bought for my system, and it seemed like a really good deal, since the discount also came with a $40 rebate as well. After getting a balance for my checking account, I noticed I could buy another set, and max my system out at 4GB RAM, and I'd be okay until payday next Friday, so I went for it.
Came home, installed the other 2 GB of RAM, made sure it all worked, and then went right back into Vanguard. While my frame rates have improved inside buildings, and in general, there is still a problem. I can run the game at Highest Quality at largely playable FPS rates now, but as soon as a bunch of other players and NPC's are on my screen, this happens:
Mind you, this is both at Highest Quality and there aren't even that many characters on this screen. Along with what you see here, there are also two more merchants off to the left side that you can't see. In the rest of the Wood Elf/Raki city, i was largely in the 30-40's, and even up to the 60-70's when I was inside buildings. However, as soon as I got anywhere near other players and NPC's, the FPS dropped again.
It's not my RAM. It's not the hardware, or my system. It's the game. I'm more convinced of that than ever.
Oh, and BTW-- the torch is off. I forgot to turn it on before taking this shot.
I'm still tracking this as I play, but seriously-- I'm not buying the excuse that this game needs 3GB RAM or more to be at optimum, because I now have 4GB in my computer, and the FPS still sucks in areas like this. If I'm getting this now, with less than a dozen characters on screen, what will it be like in raids? Or if the game ever puts in an auction house with dozens of players around all trying to buy and sell?
Its the vista or rather vanguard poor compatibility with vista.
I tried a few systems with this game including a similar set up with yours just a athlon5200 which is about similar to intel 6400 anyhow.
And like i posted before vanguard and vista do not mix.Vista works fine on other SoE games like planetside and EQ2 with exact performance like XP.But with vanguard it gives loads of crashes and terrible fps .
While i be first to say you need 2gb to be comfortable in vanguard ,even if you slot 4gb it makes very little difference sadly.
Most of the problems people have with VG is due to them having systems that just cannot handle it. I don't understand why people blame the game
You did see my system specs in the very first post, right? Just checking.
Especially now, with the extra 2GB of RAM, I can more than handle this game at the Highest Quality setting, and at playable frame rates, too, except in one instance-- when I'm around groups of other players.
That's a problem in an MMO. And it's a problem that isn't mine, since my system can functionally run this game at the top settings.
The problems I'm describing aren't the fault of my system not being able to "handle" the game. It can easily run Vanguard in most cases. It's the fault of the game for not being properly optimized or coded in certain instances, like when I'm surrounded by a group of players and NPC's.
Because the boyfriend is upstairs playing his shiny new copy of Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2, I've got the computer room to myself for a while, so I figure this is as good a time as any to try out both Diplomacy and Crafting, since I've been curious about both, and I don't really feel like killing anything tonight.
Crafting
Of the two different spheres, the one I'm more interested in is Crafting, since I tend to do some sort of trade skill in every MMO to help my characters out.
First step: finding the Crafting trainer. This takes a while, because the directions given in the quest are vague, and the directions the guard gives aren't any help either. Throw in one lag-related death as well, since I ended up hitting a lag spike as I was rounding a corner on one of those ramps up in the trees, and the next thing I know, I'm dead. Feh.
I was shocked at first, then couldn't help but laugh as I had flashbacks to Kelethin in the original EQ. I remember quite a few deaths from falling out of that city, and I'd just gone through something like that again for the first time in years. The XP loss was annoying, but I've got time between now and the end of this trial to make it up, so I'm not worried. Yet.
Eventually, I find the Crafting person to complete my quest, and she offers me one of three paths-- Outfitter, Artificer, and Blacksmith. I hadn't planned on specializing so soon, but based on the descriptions, I decide on Artificer, since I'm currently using staves, and the prospect of eventually being able to either build ships or houses is tempting.
After running back and forth between several different NPC's to talk to them, and do a bunch of mini quests to advance my training along, I'm finally ready to get started.
At first glance, and in my first few attempts to figure out the interface and the process for Crafting, it looked a lot more tedious and click-heavy than something like this should be. Then it all clicked for me, at least in its own way-- this is just like Engineering in World of Warcraft, only with a chance of injury, or some other complication.
In WoW, the Engineering profession can be anoying at times, since in order to make anything, you have to first take the time to make every individual part (tubes, bolts, contacts, gizmos, struts, frames, blasting powder for the explosives, etc.), then put them all together once it's done. It's a multi-step process, and isn't as simple as, say, Cooking, which generally only requires the raw food ingredients and a fire.
Crafting here in Vanguard feels similar to Engineering, in that I have to have all of the needed ingredients to use at the right time, and that it's a multi-layered process, but here, putting it all together is a matter of spending Action Points wisely, and trying to account for the possibility of muscle cramps, or some other slip-up. It's really a matter of making the right choice in what to click on, and hoping that your character doesn't throw out their back or strain their muscles, since healing takes Action Points as well.
The more you manage to properly click, and the better your efforts, the higher the quality of the product you make. On the surface, this sounds like a system with a great deal of depth, and it could be, but because the results of your clicks (Excellent, Poor, Fair, etc.) seem to be random, and the quality seems to fluctuate purely by chance, it's not so much about depth as it is luck.
Still, it has potential, and I played around with this system for a few hours, gaining a few levels in Crafting by filling work orders around the city. But it's not nearly as complex as it might seem. It's really just a matter of hoping that your luck holds out while you work on an item.
Diplomacy
After I got tired of Crafting, I decided to give Diplomacy a go, so I went and found the Diplomacy trainer, completed the basic quest I'd had to go talk to her, then set about to start the tutorial.
Right away, I knew I was in trouble.
When my eyes started glazing over from reading everything, and before I'd even gotten to the Statements part of the tutorial, I knew then that I would probably never do any Diplomacy.
I know that Diplomacy offers civic buffs, and is where the lore of this game has been hidden, but I don't have the inclination to figure it out. Kudos to anyone who can actually do it . You've got a LOT more patience than I do.
Comments
Could only imagine how it would feel to buy a system for probably over $2000 and then not be able to play a game at satisfying performance. Not that I'm wanna be seen like a jerk or anything but my newest part of my computer is 1.5 years hold an other parts call in at almost 3... I run at balanced, max and never goes below 20 (in or out of town). Normaly, this game should be a walk in the park for your kind of specs.
There have been moments in Vanguard where my performance has slowed down, but I suspect that's a lack of across-the-board optimization of the game client on Sigil's part more than it is a hardware issue on my end. And because my other games, including CoH/CoV, which isn't even optimized for Vista to begin with, all still run at more than playable levels, upgrading right now simply isn't needed.
I could easily do it, but for now, I'm waiting. I just got this system set up, and am still putting it through its paces. Thus far, 2GB works like a charm. If it ever slows down, I'll add more RAM.
There have been moments in Vanguard where my performance has slowed down, but I suspect that's a lack of across-the-board optimization of the game client on Sigil's part more than it is a hardware issue on my end. And because my other games, including CoH/CoV, which isn't even optimized for Vista to begin with, all still run at more than playable levels, upgrading right now simply isn't needed.
I could easily do it, but for now, I'm waiting. I just got this system set up, and am still putting it through its paces. Thus far, 2GB works like a charm. If it ever slows down, I'll add more RAM.
I apologize. I'm not saying go out and get another gig, I was just pointing out one small aspect of Vista and something that could help with the performance problems you ARE having. As it stands you are only running VG on 1gig of ram because vista is using other to run, and this will cause performance issues; especially when VG has to process gigs of information.
I was looking over your screnshots and at some of the complaints you had with the image quality and performance in some of the areas.
In the last set of screens you are inside a building and stated that your performance dropped and that you had the gama set to 125% with a torch on. There were a few problems with the SS, like the lack of light from your torch, and several effects that you should be seeing indoors, like the light coming in through the windows. I don't know what your other settings are at, specifically lighting, but if you have the lighting options on then you have a problem with your rig. I hate to say, it's not so much the game, but the stuff your running. You should be getting better performance indoors, typically my fps will double when I go inside a building.
In another pic you posted of your raki standing in a field you said that you get anywere from 15-30 fps in that enviroment. That's a problem. On my 7950 I'm getting upwards of 50 fps in the same area, if you aren't getting that kind of performance with the card you have then there is a real problem.
I understand that it can seem like, because you are running another game on the same system with better performance, that it's the games fault. However this isn't always so. CoX may not be optimized for Vista, but neither is GW and it benchmarked as one of the best MMO's to run with Vista and an 8800 without having to download a sound emulator or beta drivers for the gfx card. To put it into perspective, the benchmark was better for GW then it was for WoW. Even WoW has issues with Vista and the 8800 combo.
You keep saying that your performance is OK but eveything else you write is screaming that there is a problem.
The infant drivers for the 8800 aren't very good. It's been recommendedt that you use beta drivers from someone else; I don't know what drivers these are or where you get them, just that the drivers for the 8800 made by Nvidia have issues. This I believe is were you are having most of your problems. You should be seeing your torch and the game shouldn't be that dark, you should also be getting better performance then my 7950, but only 5% more performance.
AA problems are common and not just with VG. It's a conflict between the software and the hardware and not that big a deal to solve by turning off AA in your Gfx card settings; you won't even notice a visual dif. VG is also one of MANY games that ships without AA support; a lot of games have it added at a later date.
I'm not dogging you, not hating; I just wanted to point some things out. You are having some technical problems and you are under the impression that everything you are experiencing is due to optimization of the game. Once the game is optimized the only dif you will see is faster load times, better zoning across chunks and less hitching as the code is loaded to your system better. Also, these technical problems seem to be bothering you because you mention them throughout your diary.
The latest maximum PC had a piece in it on tweaking windows for better performance. If you do some hunting on the net you will be able to find a lot of tips to improve your experience with Vista and the 8800. Me, personally, considering the money the 8800 and vista costs, I would do everything I can to get it to run at it's fullest. As it is, with some of the things you've mentioned in your diary, your not getting near the performance you should be.
in response to another comment, Vista does not take 1G, I got 2G of ram and Vista takes up about 30%, (around 600M).
Just make sure to turn off every startup program (you can do that from Windows Defender)
Too many users with too many different system setups are having issues similar to mine. It's clearly much more than a hardware, OS, or driver issue, and has to do with the way the game is coded. That's not something that I can fix., no matter how many Vista tweaks I use for my system, how much RAM I add, or how many settings I change in order to run things. That's why I'm only mentioning any issues in passing. For the most part, they're out of my hands.
The Anti-Aliasing issue on the graphics card is something I can control, but the rest seems to come down to the game itself, just based on the sheer number of people having similar problems. I find it very difficult to believe that everything comes down to hardware, or to Vista. A good portion of it has to come from the game itself.
I don't know where people are getting the 1GB figure, but for me it's using way less.
I don't know where people are getting the 1GB figure, but for me it's using way less.
Minimum system requirements for vista are a 1.5 ghz cpu and 512 mb of ram, and as we all know when it comes to software the minimum system requirements are just about useless.
That's 512mb just to run vista at it's bare minimum, and trying to run anything outside of the OS isn't going to get you far. What's the next step from 513mb, that's right a gig.
Vista is also optimized to run with a total system ram of 3gigs were as XP is optimized at 2gigs. Running 2 gigs in vista and VG is like trying to run 1gig on XP and VG.
My point has been that at 2gigs with Vista and the 8800 isn't going to perform the way it should.
Things like lighting aren't a problem in the game, it's in the rig running it. Others are having problems; you're right. Most of the problems are driver and hardware related and it's upsetting those people because the game doesn't run the way that they want it to.
You don't have to agree with me, or believe that the the fresh off the line hardware you're using could possibly be a problem; because we all know that hardware is never at fault, but a lot of the issues you pointed out are not a part of poor coding and a crappy engine. It's crappy drivers and memery use being pushed to the limits on an operating system that is known to have issues running games, and a gfx card that is also widely known to have very real driver problems. A lot of people screamed about performance when they run the game in SLI mode; they blamed it on poor coding and a crappy engine, and then they found out that VG like a lot of other games isn't ready to be run in SLI. Those people screamed it wasn't there system either; guess what, they were wrong. Many Vista owners have also resorted to running the game in XP compatability mode or having both vista and xp on thier HD so that they can still run games in XP.
Are you using DX10 pachaged with vista? If you are there's a problem because VG isn't coded for DX10 yet. Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
Edit: I just want to point this out. On my system running XP I'm using about 15% mem. and that's without turning anything off and a few other things I have running in the background. If you're using 30% of your 2 gigs with everything in the background turned off, then how could you possibly argue that an extra gig of memory is not needed. 30% is a HUGE chunk of performance if you have everything turned off! And considering that damn near EVERY review written has suggested running the game with 2 gigs, how could you argue that an extra gig of ram wouldn't solve some of your performance problems and lay all of the blame on the software. I wasn't saying you HAD to get an extra gig, just that an extra gig would help with some of the performance.
30% with everything turned off. Now through in your sound card and VG on top of that 30% and your talking about quite a bit of memory usage there.
Edit again: 1 gig isn't 1k megs. I can't remember exactly but I believe it's something around the 800 meg range. If vista is using 600 megs then how far off is it really from a gig? But I guess it's easier to just blame software then to accually trouble shoot hardware to see if maybe there is some sort of incompatability between it and the obviously faulty software.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
I don't know where people are getting the 1GB figure, but for me it's using way less.
Minimum system requirements for vista are a 1.5 ghz cpu and 512 mb of ram, and as we all know when it comes to software the minimum system requirements are just about useless.
That's 512mb just to run vista at it's bare minimum, and trying to run anything outside of the OS isn't going to get you far. What's the next step from 513mb, that's right a gig.
Vista is also optimized to run with a total system ram of 3gigs were as XP is optimized at 2gigs. Running 2 gigs in vista and VG is like trying to run 1gig on XP and VG.
My point has been that at 2gigs with Vista and the 8800 isn't going to perform the way it should.
Things like lighting aren't a problem in the game, it's in the rig running it. Others are having problems; you're right. Most of the problems are driver and hardware related and it's upsetting those people because the game doesn't run the way that they want it to.
You don't have to agree with me, or believe that the the fresh off the line hardware you're using could possibly be a problem; because we all know that hardware is never at fault, but a lot of the issues you pointed out are not a part of poor coding and a crappy engine. It's crappy drivers and memery use being pushed to the limits on an operating system that is known to have issues running games, and a gfx card that is also widely known to have very real driver problems. A lot of people screamed about performance when they run the game in SLI mode; they blamed it on poor coding and a crappy engine, and then they found out that VG like a lot of other games isn't ready to be run in SLI. Those people screamed it wasn't there system either; guess what, they were wrong. Many Vista owners have also resorted to running the game in XP compatability mode or having both vista and xp on thier HD so that they can still run games in XP.
Are you using DX10 pachaged with vista? If you are there's a problem because VG isn't coded for DX10 yet. Now if so many other people are having problems with Vista and the 8800 drivers, and not just with VG but games in general, why would you be an exception? Also, I'm able to admit that the VG engine needs work; why are you unable to admit that maybe, just maybe, your rig also needs a little work.
Edit: I just want to point this out. On my system running XP I'm using about 15% mem. and that's without turning anything off and a few other things I have running in the background. If you're using 30% of your 2 gigs with everything in the background turned off, then how could you possibly argue that an extra gig of memory is not needed. 30% is a HUGE chunk of performance if you have everything turned off! And considering that damn near EVERY review written has suggested running the game with 2 gigs, how could you argue that an extra gig of ram wouldn't solve some of your performance problems and lay all of the blame on the software. I wasn't saying you HAD to get an extra gig, just that an extra gig would help with some of the performance.
30% with everything turned off. Now through in your sound card and VG on top of that 30% and your talking about quite a bit of memory usage there.
Edit again: 1 gig isn't 1k megs. I can't remember exactly but I believe it's something around the 800 meg range. If vista is using 600 megs then how far off is it really from a gig? But I guess it's easier to just blame software then to accually trouble shoot hardware to see if maybe there is some sort of incompatability between it and the obviously faulty software.
1 gig is 1024 mb.
As for the high Vista memory issue, congratz on perpetuating the myth
I personally will wait about 6months-1yr before changing myself but heres food for thought and spread the word.
http://thelazyadmin.com/index.php?/archives/396-Mythbusting-Windows-Vista-Memory-Management.html
Edit:
Also just throwing out a couple of memory tests that have been run on Vista for people to check out if they want
http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36148
And fps head to head w Xp with different memory/vid card configs, A really good read.
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6164940/index.html
Enjoying your observations and comments. I pretty much agree with all you said and basically experienced the same thing. I know it's early but it seems like you won't be going beyond the 10-day trial.
LOL,are you that dumb?this isn't a console game where you make the game for only type of setup geesh,there are hundreds/thousands of different PC setups and config's/bios/drivers ,it's endless.All the options to fine tune your settings are there if you want but NO they are not neccessary.I am not defending VANGUARD either i am defending the idea behind compatibility.
Would anyone and i mean anyone at all expect a high poly game to run on a low end machine without some fine tuning?I would hope not one person,because it would show your lack of common sense.If all the dummies had it there way,all the games would still play on your nintendo 64.Even when microsoft gives its seal of approval to drivers,it doesn't mean 100% of every config will work properly with that driver.They have a guildline they go by like say 90% of there tests pass,then the driver gets the WHQL approval.
Consoles are 99.9% foolproof as far as compatibility goes,thats a no brainer.PC's are not again a no brainer.
BTW those .ini tweaks you see would effect EVERY game out there in some form or another,so it's not like these tweaks are independant of Vanguard only.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
I'm not taking it personally; just trying to help.
When your system isn't rendering light properly, wich you clearly indicated in one of you screenshots, then you are having a driver issue. You torch not showing has nothing to do with the game, it's your card not rendering properly.
Just because your system is a week old and you had it tested to be compatible doesn't mean it's compatable with every piece of software on the market, or that the drivers you're using for you gfx card are compatabile with VG. There are thread after thread of people complaining that the released drivers from nvidia are not working right. Just because the drivers you have are compatible with the card you have doesn't mean the drivers are good. ATI users have suffered with this since the beginning of time, and one of the reason I stopped using ATI cards and switched to Nvidia.
And what myth? I listed the minimum riquirements for vista, that's no myth. That's from Microsoft themself. Every benchmark run in every magazine and website I read has also indicated that Vista is a resource hog. The OP and another poster both confirmed this with the amount of mem. thier systems are using under vista.
And 1024 is 512x2 and not 1gb. doesn't work that way, never has, and that's information handed down to me from a software programmer.
You're obviously using the released drivers for your card from Nvidia; so you answered your question. You should check out some sites that reviewed those drivers and see what people have said. You won't be suprised becaue I've been trying to say it for 2 days now.
I for one am enjoying Lidane's log.
About the technical issues though....don't you all that are argueing so vehemently about computer settings and drivers etc even get the point?
The point is that not ONE MMORPG I've ever played needed this kind of tweaking and peeking on a high end computer to play comfortably. Are you telling me that Vanguard (a so called "third generation" game) can't run a diag on your computer and make the appropriate settings? Or if it can't then it could tell you.."Vanguard required this XXXX driver for your video card...please click this link to download and install"
I know it's asking a whole bunch though for this level of programming sophistication from a developer like Brad who motto should be "Sadism...it does a body good".
Keep on trucking Lidane. So far I'm sure you've saved a lot of people their money.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
I've since moved to Tanvu for my main character (now running a half-elf Monk) and the creatures there definitely have death animations and overall, it's much better as far as that goes. There's other problems, but I think the dryads just didn't get finished properly in their rush to get it out the door.
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"Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life."
I just finally got the game done updating this morning before work. I hopped on for all of about 5 minutes and my only comment so far is the low amount of character customization.
I made a dwarf cleric just to test the customization options and was highly dissappointed. There are only 4 hairstyles, and 4 faces as mentioned a million other times on these boards, but what is worse than that is that all the faces look almost exactly the same. Sure you can adjust every part of the face to some degree, but it really all just looks the same. And for dwarves there are basically only 2 hairstyles 1 that looks like hagrid from Harry potter, and 2 that are bald on top with a pony tail in the back.
I am hopeful that they will add more faces and hairstyles soon enough though.
I didn't just throw this together in a couple of hours and pray that it worked. Considering the money I was spending, I made sure that the system could not only run, but run well.
The hardware is fine. It works, it's all compatible, and it runs everything else that I have installed with a minimum of hassle, apart from the annoying permissions thing that Vista does. As I've said, with the exception of CoH/CoV, which freaks out even at the sight of Vista, and which has to be Windowed for me to play, everything else runs fine.
I'm sorry that you're taking my technical issues with Vanguard personally. I'm sorry that you think that my hardware is somehow defective, when I know for a fact it's not. But when my system as a whole can function at a pretty good clip except when I'm in Vanguard (since even my CoH/CoV performance isn't diminished at all, despite the Windowed mode), I'm going to be inclined to think that the game is at fault, since I'm not having these same issues with any other application or MMO. It's a natural conclusion to draw.
I'm not taking it personally; just trying to help.
When your system isn't rendering light properly, wich you clearly indicated in one of you screenshots, then you are having a driver issue. You torch not showing has nothing to do with the game, it's your card not rendering properly.
Just because your system is a week old and you had it tested to be compatible doesn't mean it's compatable with every piece of software on the market, or that the drivers you're using for you gfx card are compatabile with VG. There are thread after thread of people complaining that the released drivers from nvidia are not working right. Just because the drivers you have are compatible with the card you have doesn't mean the drivers are good. ATI users have suffered with this since the beginning of time, and one of the reason I stopped using ATI cards and switched to Nvidia.
And what myth? I listed the minimum riquirements for vista, that's no myth. That's from Microsoft themself. Every benchmark run in every magazine and website I read has also indicated that Vista is a resource hog. The OP and another poster both confirmed this with the amount of mem. thier systems are using under vista.
And 1024 is 512x2 and not 1gb. doesn't work that way, never has, and that's information handed down to me from a software programmer.
You're obviously using the released drivers for your card from Nvidia; so you answered your question. You should check out some sites that reviewed those drivers and see what people have said. You won't be suprised becaue I've been trying to say it for 2 days now.
Wow... just wow... try to find a hardware guy for your info. hey, 512 is 256x2 , hey 256 is 128x2 which is 64x2. Guess what sparky, it does work that way. bits, bytes,megabytes, gigabytes all based on 8bits.
it will always be a multiple of 8 but if you don't want to take my word for it, go buy 1gig of ram, put it in your pc, and look at the post with memory active, that number will (depending on your bios) show the number of bytes or mb.
Did you even bother to read the link i posted? The myth is that Vista uses 1gb ram on idle "or just to run" it Idles at about 300or so mb, yes its a big number, and the min req are for 512mb so you would slog along like a slug but it would run. Everyone knows each iteration of windows hogs more and more memory... its the numbers that are important, please don't throw out info you pick up without having good sources.
I understand you're trying to help her get more performance, but currently she is giving a view on what the avg user (not so avg since she can throw together a system
) may or may not see in VG.
But anyways, lets let her get back to her Diary.
Edit: here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte
but since you won't read that...
1,073,741,824 bytes, equal to 10243, or 230 bytes. This is the definition used for computer memory sizes, and most often used in computer engineering, computer science, and most aspects of computer operating systems. The IEC recommends that this unit should instead be called a gibibyte (abbreviated GiB), as it conflicts with SI units used for bus speeds and the like. HP states that Microsoft normally adheres to this definition [3]
now go tell your "programmer friends"
Just to comment briefly on the hardware issues, Vanguard is a resource hog, no denying that, and it is intended to be scaleable to hardware that hasn't been manufactured yet - that's what the highest settings are for.
1) Vanguard is happy under WindowsXP with 2gigs of system ram, on Vista it's far happier with 3gigs.
2) 8800 users have been experiencing problems, not all of them, but definately a higher number, there are driver problems and particularly DX10, Vista, 8800 problems that a number of games have, VG certainly does but it's not the only culprit by along way.
3) With any high requirement game, running either low-end or the latest high-end hardware/OS/Drivers/DX - nearly always requires a fair bit of optimising tweaking hairpulling editing etc
If you change any of the criteria above you can probably resolve most issues, whether or not every game should run well with every rig, it is just a sad fact of life with PC's that aren't in the median of the available tech versus requirements.
I'm guessing that if you tested TextureDetailWorld=4 to TextureDetailWorld=1 in vgclient.ini you'd see quite alot of improvement to fps. When more optimised Nvidia & Vista drivers/patches come out you can probably set it back again. As others have mentioned you could also gain more speed by optimising the Vista/DX!)/Nvidia drivers, I can't really offer any advice there. The choice about whether you improve your performance or not, is entirely yours of couse. As I don't have anything like your rig and won't be touching VIsta with a pole for at least 6 more months I can't confirm what's the best optimisation for you I'm afraid.
Today was a non-gaming day, simply because I felt like it. I'm not as obsessive about MMO's, or spending all my time online as I used to be, and I decied that I would take a break from everything-- Vanguard, WoW, surfing the web, etc. I posted a few times in this thread, but most of my day was spent with a good book in my hands.
Well, I did briefly log in to Vanguard to try the Anti-Aliasing fix, which worked. The next time I sit down to play, I'll be able to see names again. Other than that, though, I didn't stay in long.
Back when I played EverQuest, this wasn't even an option for me. I would spend about as much time in the game as I did at work every day. Grinding out levels, camping spawns for gear or quest items, doing weapon and armor quests just to keep up with my guildmates, raiding, etc. The game literally was the center of my life, and little things like socializing with real-life friends, going to the movies, and reading good books fell by the wayside. In retrospect, it really wasn't all that much fun to spend so much time in a virtual world, and I'm determined not to go back to that.
Once I quit EQ, I made it my mission to find an MMO that didn't require 6-8+ hours a day of time in order to advance. I wanted a game that I could still play and enjoy, but which would also grant me the ability to get back out in the world, and not be such a shut-in. I started doing other things-- joining a gym, trying disc golf with the boyfriend, taking cooking lessons, catching up on my reading, etc. It's also when I picked up console gaming again, because consoles are infinitely more casual. I can play for a couple of hours, save my progress, and set the game aside until I'm ready to pick things up again.
That sort of casual interaction is what I look for in an MMO. I don't need to have the top tier raid weapons anymore, or the biggest, flashiest armor. As long as I can play at my own pace and still advance, and still earn decent enough weapons and armor to compete, but without spending hours and days and weeks on end stuck in raids, I'm good.
Is Vanguard a game like that? Or is it more of the same that I got in EQ? It's too soon to say just yet.
Day 4
OK. Something is DEFINITELY wrong with the way this game handles memory.
Got a call from the boyfriend when I was at work-- Fry's is throwing a bunch of stuff on sale, including the matched set of RAM that I bought for my system, and it seemed like a really good deal, since the discount also came with a $40 rebate as well. After getting a balance for my checking account, I noticed I could buy another set, and max my system out at 4GB RAM, and I'd be okay until payday next Friday, so I went for it.
Came home, installed the other 2 GB of RAM, made sure it all worked, and then went right back into Vanguard. While my frame rates have improved inside buildings, and in general, there is still a problem. I can run the game at Highest Quality at largely playable FPS rates now, but as soon as a bunch of other players and NPC's are on my screen, this happens:
Mind you, this is both at Highest Quality and there aren't even that many characters on this screen. Along with what you see here, there are also two more merchants off to the left side that you can't see. In the rest of the Wood Elf/Raki city, i was largely in the 30-40's, and even up to the 60-70's when I was inside buildings. However, as soon as I got anywhere near other players and NPC's, the FPS dropped again.
It's not my RAM. It's not the hardware, or my system. It's the game. I'm more convinced of that than ever.
Oh, and BTW-- the torch is off. I forgot to turn it on before taking this shot.
I'm still tracking this as I play, but seriously-- I'm not buying the excuse that this game needs 3GB RAM or more to be at optimum, because I now have 4GB in my computer, and the FPS still sucks in areas like this. If I'm getting this now, with less than a dozen characters on screen, what will it be like in raids? Or if the game ever puts in an auction house with dozens of players around all trying to buy and sell?
Its the vista or rather vanguard poor compatibility with vista.
I tried a few systems with this game including a similar set up with yours just a athlon5200 which is about similar to intel 6400 anyhow.
And like i posted before vanguard and vista do not mix.Vista works fine on other SoE games like planetside and EQ2 with exact performance like XP.But with vanguard it gives loads of crashes and terrible fps .
While i be first to say you need 2gb to be comfortable in vanguard ,even if you slot 4gb it makes very little difference sadly.
Especially now, with the extra 2GB of RAM, I can more than handle this game at the Highest Quality setting, and at playable frame rates, too, except in one instance-- when I'm around groups of other players.
That's a problem in an MMO. And it's a problem that isn't mine, since my system can functionally run this game at the top settings.
The problems I'm describing aren't the fault of my system not being able to "handle" the game. It can easily run Vanguard in most cases. It's the fault of the game for not being properly optimized or coded in certain instances, like when I'm surrounded by a group of players and NPC's.
Because the boyfriend is upstairs playing his shiny new copy of Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2, I've got the computer room to myself for a while, so I figure this is as good a time as any to try out both Diplomacy and Crafting, since I've been curious about both, and I don't really feel like killing anything tonight.
Crafting
Of the two different spheres, the one I'm more interested in is Crafting, since I tend to do some sort of trade skill in every MMO to help my characters out.
First step: finding the Crafting trainer. This takes a while, because the directions given in the quest are vague, and the directions the guard gives aren't any help either. Throw in one lag-related death as well, since I ended up hitting a lag spike as I was rounding a corner on one of those ramps up in the trees, and the next thing I know, I'm dead. Feh.
I was shocked at first, then couldn't help but laugh as I had flashbacks to Kelethin in the original EQ. I remember quite a few deaths from falling out of that city, and I'd just gone through something like that again for the first time in years. The XP loss was annoying, but I've got time between now and the end of this trial to make it up, so I'm not worried. Yet.
Eventually, I find the Crafting person to complete my quest, and she offers me one of three paths-- Outfitter, Artificer, and Blacksmith. I hadn't planned on specializing so soon, but based on the descriptions, I decide on Artificer, since I'm currently using staves, and the prospect of eventually being able to either build ships or houses is tempting.
After running back and forth between several different NPC's to talk to them, and do a bunch of mini quests to advance my training along, I'm finally ready to get started.
At first glance, and in my first few attempts to figure out the interface and the process for Crafting, it looked a lot more tedious and click-heavy than something like this should be. Then it all clicked for me, at least in its own way-- this is just like Engineering in World of Warcraft, only with a chance of injury, or some other complication.
In WoW, the Engineering profession can be anoying at times, since in order to make anything, you have to first take the time to make every individual part (tubes, bolts, contacts, gizmos, struts, frames, blasting powder for the explosives, etc.), then put them all together once it's done. It's a multi-step process, and isn't as simple as, say, Cooking, which generally only requires the raw food ingredients and a fire.
Crafting here in Vanguard feels similar to Engineering, in that I have to have all of the needed ingredients to use at the right time, and that it's a multi-layered process, but here, putting it all together is a matter of spending Action Points wisely, and trying to account for the possibility of muscle cramps, or some other slip-up. It's really a matter of making the right choice in what to click on, and hoping that your character doesn't throw out their back or strain their muscles, since healing takes Action Points as well.
The more you manage to properly click, and the better your efforts, the higher the quality of the product you make. On the surface, this sounds like a system with a great deal of depth, and it could be, but because the results of your clicks (Excellent, Poor, Fair, etc.) seem to be random, and the quality seems to fluctuate purely by chance, it's not so much about depth as it is luck.
Still, it has potential, and I played around with this system for a few hours, gaining a few levels in Crafting by filling work orders around the city. But it's not nearly as complex as it might seem. It's really just a matter of hoping that your luck holds out while you work on an item.
Diplomacy
After I got tired of Crafting, I decided to give Diplomacy a go, so I went and found the Diplomacy trainer, completed the basic quest I'd had to go talk to her, then set about to start the tutorial.
Right away, I knew I was in trouble.
When my eyes started glazing over from reading everything, and before I'd even gotten to the Statements part of the tutorial, I knew then that I would probably never do any Diplomacy.
I know that Diplomacy offers civic buffs, and is where the lore of this game has been hidden, but I don't have the inclination to figure it out. Kudos to anyone who can actually do it . You've got a LOT more patience than I do.