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What The Heck...

jsw40jsw40 Member Posts: 214
Okay, at first when I heard rumors about EVE, I didn't think it would be any good because a space MMO just didn't sound appealing to me. However, after hearing recommendations and good things about EVE everywhere I turned, I decided to download the trial and play for a bit.



It may very well be one of the most boring MMOs I've played. Nothing about it is very interactive and intense, (and before anyone says anything, YES I participated in 8 PvP battles.), and there are no really stimulating features aside from the graphics. The combat is clicking one button to lock on, another to approach and one more to autofire your gun while you sit back and watch your ship fire in a droning manner at another ship. Big whoop. The mining is the exact same thing, except not on a moving target! The controls are nearly entirely automated; I only need to press a few buttons and before I know it I'm where I want to be.



Can anyone tell me any features of the game that make it mildly worth anyones time? I mean, from what I've played of the game Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed blows this out of the water, and that was a half-brained expansion, not an entire stand alone MMO!

Comments

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,353
    Originally posted by jsw40

    Okay, at first when I heard rumors about EVE, I didn't think it would be any good because a space MMO just didn't sound appealing to me. However, after hearing recommendations and good things about EVE everywhere I turned, I decided to download the trial and play for a bit.



    It may very well be one of the most boring MMOs I've played. Nothing about it is very interactive and intense, (and before anyone says anything, YES I participated in 8 PvP battles.), and there are no really stimulating features aside from the graphics. The combat is clicking one button to lock on, another to approach and one more to autofire your gun while you sit back and watch your ship fire in a droning manner at another ship. Big whoop. The mining is the exact same thing, except not on a moving target! The controls are nearly entirely automated; I only need to press a few buttons and before I know it I'm where I want to be.



    Can anyone tell me any features of the game that make it mildly worth anyones time? I mean, from what I've played of the game Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed blows this out of the water, and that was a half-brained expansion, not an entire stand alone MMO!
    8 PVP battles eh? What were you flying? What were they flying? You have a link to the killboard?



    If all you did in a real PVP battle was hit approach and turn your guns on I'm guessing it either took about 15 seconds for you to appear in a new clone, or you were firing your civvy gatling at them and they were too busy laughing to pod you.



    Even if you did't post your kills on a killboard they very likely posted thiers, so either link your own kills or theres. Hell since it was just a trial give me your character name and the name of the corp you were fighting and I will find out just whether you're full of it or not.



    I've gotten quite tired of all the trial players who claim to have learned the ins and outs of the game in 2 hours playtime and think they have a deep understanding of the game.



    So from now on, you want your opinion of the game to mean anything then be prepared to have the info to back it up, character name is usually plenty to find out whether you're full of BS or not.
  • jsw40jsw40 Member Posts: 214
    So you're basically asking me for 'proof' that I participated in the game before I took the time to post a rant about how I didn't like participating in the game?



    I don't know what these 'kill boards' you're referring to are, and 6 of the PvP battles I was in were pretty much instant death for me, while the other two I won because I was in a group with two other friends on Ventrilo.



    I fail to see how posting a screenshot or whatever it is you're talking about will further validate my personal opinion that I find the game to be bland and overhyped?
  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228

    yes is kinda prof or stfu get your stats on some KB like this
    http://griefwatch.net/

    http://podbase.com/

    http://eve-kill.net/?a=home

    or any custom KB

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • HelioconHeliocon Member Posts: 44

    Ok when you say pvp battles i ocnsider that to be a 20+ battle personally a single person engagement is more like a scrap. Ok well sorry to say this m8 no wonder you died so fast theres alot of stratagy to a persons setup and equipment on eve I have been playing for 5 months and am still learning alot. and there alot more to just mining or combat try trading or manufacturing ect.

  • kovahkovah Member UncommonPosts: 692
    Don't worry j, you are entitled to your opinion.  Just in case you haven't noticed the EVE fans on this site are pretty damn hard core.  There is absolutely no wai that anyone could possibly not enjoy EVE unless they suffer from severe mental disabilities...  No, for seriously...  err..



    Meh, I play EVE and I personally think it is the best game on the market right now.  Do some reading on the forums and read all the guides and materials you can find.  When compared to other MMO's EVE is more like a job than a game imo, but it's a job that I enjoy.  There's alot to it and it's all player driven.  I could go on but there are any number of posts out there with good and bad opinions of the game.



    I can promise that it isn't for everyone just like I can promise that posting anything that could be taken as negative about EVE will automatically generate responses like the one's above.  You are entitled to your opinion though, I don't need proof that you played cause frankly -- I could give a f*ck.  I enjoy the game I don't need other people to justify my enjoyment of a game for me.



    gl hf
  • BahemothBahemoth Member Posts: 126
    Ok the reason the people above are asking for character names and such is so that they can validate you acually tried it this is done because we get alot of people come in here and give their "reviews" and have acually never played the game and some of them you cna honestly tell that they havent even tried it. its simply to prove your not a buthurt <insert other MMO name here> fan who is mad because eve is #1 on this sites rankings and wants to give us grief



    anywya If your into hardcore action games where your reflexes matter your right there isnt much of that in eve to keep your attention. eve is geared more tward people like myself who like to do alot of planning and strategy work. and there are moments that do get the adrenaline running. try being incharge of a small strike force (10ish) and have about half again to double your numbers jump in on you and engage and try to instead of running try to be in command of that type of situation and knowing that your tactics may win the fight or may cost your friends 100s of millions (possibly billions depending on what everyone is flying) more in losses than what would be suffered by just withdrawing
  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228


    Originally posted by Bahemoth
    Ok the reason the people above are asking for character names and such is so that they can validate you acually tried it this is done because we get alot of people come in here and give their "reviews" and have acually never played the game and some of them you cna honestly tell that they havent even tried it. its simply to prove your not a buthurt <insert other MMO name here> fan who is mad because eve is #1 on this sites rankings and wants to give us grief
    QFT

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • BahemothBahemoth Member Posts: 126
    at the expense of seeming not so netlingo savvy do remind me what QFT means
  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228


    Originally posted by Bahemoth
    at the expense of seeming not so netlingo savvy do remind me what QFT means

    quoted for truth

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • niteflynitefly Member Posts: 340
    This has nothing to do with EVE, it is more a general observation regarding Internet Forums.



    A poster can write what they want when they state it is their own personal oppinion/experience. It is a non-consequential commitment to your own oppinion and you're letting people know what you as a person thinks of said game (or whatever is being discussed).



    The recipient is then entitled to interpret this post. Whether they agree with the post or not is not important, what could be important is presenting their own personal view. Debasing the original poster's view is childish unless the original post was along the infamous lines of "tis game is teh suxxorz" or some ridiculous dribble like that. Trolls are trolls, leave them under the bridge, that way they go away.



    The calling for truth argument is inherently equally childish. If the poster is posting what you think is not true, recount a story of a similar nature that proves the original poster's story is impropable. As the statement in this case is "I have participated in 8 PvP battles" that should not exactly call for a whole lot of scrutiny. I mean, is that even remotely unlikely?



    If you want to defend your game you can do so but do so with your own arguments, oppinions, and experiences. To simply nay-say another poster is not participating, it is whining. So please stop whining.
  • keetha3keetha3 Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by Bahemoth

    at the expense of seeming not so netlingo savvy do remind me what QFT means
    Quite Fucking True
  • ThoemseThoemse Member UncommonPosts: 457
    Just when i thought i am playing a non fantasy game.



    Looks like an ugly stinky troll just entered our shiny scifi world guys!



    /me runs
  • ArcticblueArcticblue Member Posts: 270

    Not to try and flame you or anything but lissen to my experience when I tried WoW...

    I met a target, click the target (lock feature in EVE), I start pressing button for attack, since it is on autorepeat (same goes for EVE too), I don't really need to worry about the attack thing, so I click on various buttons to give me some tank or maybe needed some health.

    You know what ? ... combat system in WoW is not very different from the one in EVE when you think of it... you have to lock on target in both, you have to click on desired weapon/attack button(s) and from time to time you have to buff your stats abit (or use in EVE a Shield booster or Armor repper)... see where I am going at ???

    So I got killed alot in "PvP" in WoW... it did not give me any rush... I knew I would wake up as a ghost and then when I where near my body I could ressurect again, not to worry all my equipment where there.

    I have been killed alot in PvP in EVE too... and that was a whole different story, my heart pounding knowing that if I loose the fight I loose my ship and my equipment... and most of the time I don't really want to loose it but it is fun.

     

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,353
    Originally posted by jsw40

    So you're basically asking me for 'proof' that I participated in the game before I took the time to post a rant about how I didn't like participating in the game?



    I don't know what these 'kill boards' you're referring to are, and 6 of the PvP battles I was in were pretty much instant death for me, while the other two I won because I was in a group with two other friends on Ventrilo.



    I fail to see how posting a screenshot or whatever it is you're talking about will further validate my personal opinion that I find the game to be bland and overhyped?
    As has been stated, many people come in here after playing the game for a few hours and claim they know all there is to know about the game and can therefore say that it sucks. Your description of EVE combat sounded EXACTLY like one of those people. What you described is the combat that you get to do in the tutorial, it's designed to show you the BASICS of the game but is NOT a valid indicator of what combat is like later in the game. The fact that you were nearly instakilled in 6 of your 8 pvp fights should have been indication that the 'orbit and  turn guns on' method of fighting NPC's will not work against players. Instead you bash the game's combat and call it simple.



    If you don't like the game mechanics and want something more twitchy in a game that's fine, that's reasonable to me, but if you're going to bash the game at least make an attempt to understand the game mechanics. EVE is a capital ship combat game, SWG:JTL is a small ship combat game. If they let players fly star destroyers in that game do you honestly think it would make sense to control them with a joystick?
  • BigDave7481BigDave7481 Member Posts: 298

    Well just some facts here on the OP and his Eve "experience". 
    He made a post here asking about a free trial key at 1/31/07 12:27:36 PM then the date of when he created this thread?  1/31/07 3:19:42 PM.  That means he had the whole time of a wopping 2 hours and 52 minutes to play and come up with this post.  So is the OP's post creditable?  Not in the slightest.

  • MondeMonde Member Posts: 133
    Originally posted by Minsc

    As has been stated, many people come in here after playing the game for a few hours and claim they know all there is to know about the game and can therefore say that it sucks. Your description of EVE combat sounded EXACTLY like one of those people. What you described is the combat that you get to do in the tutorial, it's designed to show you the BASICS of the game but is NOT a valid indicator of what combat is like later in the game. The fact that you were nearly instakilled in 6 of your 8 pvp fights should have been indication that the 'orbit and  turn guns on' method of fighting NPC's will not work against players. Instead you bash the game's combat and call it simple.



    If you don't like the game mechanics and want something more twitchy in a game that's fine, that's reasonable to me, but if you're going to bash the game at least make an attempt to understand the game mechanics. EVE is a capital ship combat game, SWG:JTL is a small ship combat game. If they let players fly star destroyers in that game do you honestly think it would make sense to control them with a joystick?



    Thank you Minsc. Well written and to the point.....BTW where is your Hamster?

    BigDave good find.

  • BahemothBahemoth Member Posts: 126
    nice find dave.



    and monde is right minsc where the hell is boo?... there cannot be a minsc without a boo
  • lowradslowrads Member UncommonPosts: 200
    Try piloting an interceptor. 



    Approach, click and wait will get you killed in 1.4 seconds.



    This is like complaining that the pieces on a chessboard are pretty but they just sit there and never do anything unless you tell them to. 



    EVE is slow burn.  It has layers of gameplay.



    1)Individual Pilot Tactics

    -Gotta know your ship

    -Gotta know almost every other possible or popular ship type

    -Tend to need to know elementary intel about your opponent



    2)Group Tactics

    -Corp Logistics: The first challenge is finding or starting a potent group with high enthusiasm, basically a test of your personality

    -The second is being able to quickly calculate the odds of a ~5v~5 outcome in seconds prior to engagement without really thinking about it.



    3)Corp Politics

    -You have politics inside of corps

    -You have politics with allies

    -You have politics with enemies

    -And then there are the entrepreneurial arts..



    These frame the entire experience of a typical EVE career.



    (And there's some npcs or asteroids or something.. or whatever.. totally optional. )
  • niteflynitefly Member Posts: 340
    Originally posted by lowrads

    Try piloting an interceptor. 



    Approach, click and wait will get you killed in 1.4 seconds.



    This is like complaining that the pieces on a chessboard are pretty but they just sit there and never do anything unless you tell them to. 



    EVE is slow burn.  It has layers of gameplay.



    1)Individual Pilot Tactics

    -Gotta know your ship

    -Gotta know almost every other possible or popular ship type

    -Tend to need to know elementary intel about your opponent



    Somebody else did the "Compare to WoW" thing earlier. I thought I'd give it a stab too.

    1) Individual Class Tactics

    - Got to know your Class, Talents, Strong points and weak points. Got to know your equipment.

    - Got to know almost every other Class along with most popular builds, most potent equipment.

    - Tend to be good to know general intel about opponent, what Guild is he/she part of, are they raiders or hardcore PvPers?



    2)Group Tactics

    -Corp Logistics: The first challenge is finding or starting a potent group with high enthusiasm, basically a test of your personality

    -The second is being able to quickly calculate the odds of a ~5v~5 outcome in seconds prior to engagement without really thinking about it.



    2) Group Tactics

    - Guild affiliation: Find an active Guild that has enjoyable and skilled players. There is the whole chemistry thing as well, do you get along with these people, do they get along with you.

    - In a Battleground: Quickly asses who are near you from your own team and compare the potential outcome of those people to the opponents closing in. Factor in variables such as some of these people might or might not belong to your Guild, the opponents might be from a known PvP guild, compare equipment etc. Before you're killed of course...

    - In a Raid: Know your role and know your place, identify and acknowledge the players who are more and less skilled than yourself, be ready for the not so experienced to possibly fail, turn to the more experienced for support. Be aware of the current Quest at hand, know your enemy, know what you're likely to face off against. Have a contingency plan if something fails or unexpected happens. Do as much as you can to deter the possibility of your main weakness being exploited.



    3)Corp Politics

    -You have politics inside of corps

    -You have politics with allies

    -You have politics with enemies

    -And then there are the entrepreneurial arts..



    3) Guild Politics

    - Some Guilds have huge organizational structures, others operate along a more flat hierachy. Find what you prefer or work to change the Guild from within. There are going to be changes of leadership from time to time, make your stake and form a solid group within your Guild that you can count on. You will quickly learn who the hardliners are.

    - Affiliations, in WoW you have Raiding alliances or PvP alliances or roleplay alliances. They better your chances of success or makes weaker Guilds capable of taking on stronger challenges. Roleplay alliances are of course more for social enjoyment and fun - not very game related but there are quite a few of them.

    - Enemies. Can be both from the opposite Faction or your Faction. There are famous rivalries between various Strong Raid or Strong PvP Guilds.

    - Crafting. Easier in Guilds if you've reached a level where very rare ingredients are needed.




    These frame the entire experience of a typical EVE career.



    (And there's some npcs or asteroids or something.. or whatever.. totally optional. )
    By the way, I like your post and I'm simply highlighting the fact that the difference between MMORPGs are more often in the heads of the players than in actual games themselves. Sure the skills are different, the interface looks different, but the core of the matter is basically the same: A social game centered around conflict. Not necessarily violent conflict, but conflict none the less. Food for the competitive gene.
  • RabiatorRabiator Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by nitefly

    Originally posted by lowrads

    Try piloting an interceptor. 



    Approach, click and wait will get you killed in 1.4 seconds.



    This is like complaining that the pieces on a chessboard are pretty but they just sit there and never do anything unless you tell them to. 



    EVE is slow burn.  It has layers of gameplay.



    1)Individual Pilot Tactics

    -Gotta know your ship

    -Gotta know almost every other possible or popular ship type

    -Tend to need to know elementary intel about your opponent



    Somebody else did the "Compare to WoW" thing earlier. I thought I'd give it a stab too.

    1) Individual Class Tactics

    - Got to know your Class, Talents, Strong points and weak points. Got to know your equipment.

    - Got to know almost every other Class along with most popular builds, most potent equipment.

    - Tend to be good to know general intel about opponent, what Guild is he/she part of, are they raiders or hardcore PvPers?



    <snip>
    By the way, I like your post and I'm simply highlighting the fact that the difference between MMORPGs are more often in the heads of the players than in actual games themselves. Sure the skills are different, the interface looks different, but the core of the matter is basically the same: A social game centered around conflict. Not necessarily violent conflict, but conflict none the less. Food for the competitive gene.

    Actually the details are important in making a game interesting or dull.



    -Some games do not have meaningful variety outfitting your ship, you just carry the biggest weapon your skill allows. An example for this is Space Cowboy, a  free-to-play  asian SciFi MMORPG. It is actually quite a nice game in some ways, but the only time you have to make a real decision is when starting a new character and selecting the type of gear she will fly (3 options there). Once you encounter another player, you take one look at his shiptype and have a pretty good idea of what he is good at.



    -Ships in EVE can have pronounced strong and weak points depending on fitting, which can change from day to day when the pilot swaps out some modules. Some abilities (like warp scrambling) may be completely absent one day and present the next. Hence, strategy in EVE needs more up-to-date intel. You also have more options of putting a fleet together.



    I have no comment about WOW in this regard, as I've never played it (Blizzard is on my shit list for political reasons). But saying that all MMORPGs are created equal is like saying Tic-Tac-Toe has the depth of chess
  • lowradslowrads Member UncommonPosts: 200
    Nitefly, some of those comparisons seems pretty specious at best, but I probably invited that by glossing over the mechanics in glittering generalities.



    Some are accurate enough, such as that direct interaction between mere individuals in EVE, like most MMOs, is a select-and-wait affair.  But basically that can be reduced to saying, "EVE and WoW  are similar in that neither is an FPS."  Also, that both are like chess in that each is easy to learn, but take an age to master is pretty accurate.  Fair enough on that end.



    But I don't think you understand what I mean by "politics" within and between corporations. 



    While I imagine some of the guilds in WoW have "drama" between a couple of emo players or whiny child-adults, that is not the same thing as "politics" in EVE corporations.  (Believe me, we have our share of the former in EVE, even in 0.0 corps.)



    Some of our corporations have populations bigger than some established townships.  Bigger than some Athenian provinces even.  I don't think individual WoW servers can even handle that many people.  Some corporations have gone above three thousand sweaty nerds, and loom to grow much bigger in the ongoing future.  Our command teams are professional, militarized bodies with extensive delegation and spontaneous development of institutions.  I predict 10k man alliances if the current crop of changes proceed similarly.



    When I say there is pressure, I mean of an historical kind.  There is pressure from influences between republican and despotic interests.  Between nationalist interests and plutocratic interests.   After loyal service as a cog in a machine, you can enter the Byzantine morass of  social engineering and entrepreneurial endeavors.  It's almost impossible to see just how epic in scope conflicts really are until you are an insider.  Wars can drag on for weeks, seasons, or even years.  Especially covert wars.  Anything less than a month is just a skirmish.



    On paper it might just look like a purely quantitative issue, but in experience, the sheer scale of things easily reaches a point where it has a tangible effect on the quality of events.  If you are familiar with the monkeysphere, you will understand what I mean about what happens to organizations when they go above 50-200 members.  Above that point, impersonal bureaucracy is increasingly needed.



    These events have a dramatic effect on the individual's finances.  While anyone is capable of being useful from day 1, one's monthly financial flow is a measure of both your general combat prowess, and the range of your usefulness to your allies.   (Lamentably, EVE needs a lot of undevelopment in this area as it has carebearified over time.)   In WoW, I don't think people will need to ask how many raids they need to go on in order to repair their good equipment so that they don't need to worry as much about the giant horde between them and some other important objective.  How many weeks does it take to repair Epic gear once it gets scratched?  Can you provide a vital service to other players or just be important enough that they will give you currency to keep your operation fungible?



    In WoW, I expect there is some territorial conflict over resources to some degree.  I don't quite know quite how farming plays an important role in player conflict, but I suppose there's something like it.  A lot of EVE groups are this way, although there are a margin of organizations which provide more exotic services, and succeed profitably.   I imagine there must be some measure of PR work that goes on for WoW guilds.  Actually though, I half expect a player would get banned immediately if they tried to be innovative in how they make a living in a Blizzard game.  I hear you can get banned for playing bingo, which is kindof weird to think about when we have casinos openly operated for profit and organized gambling on our stock markets.  You can pretty much drag any profession you want into EVE if you possess the technical know-how to implement it and the charismatic grace to draw in partners and customers.   The amount of things you can learn in order to succeed in EVE is theoretically unlimited because of this.



    In some ways I would think logistics in WoW guilds would be harder, as there would be a smaller pool of individuals from which to muster a blob.  That is, unless you focused on a singular timezone, but even so, tricky.   Then again, maybe it's not as much required because I don't see trench warfare in WoW.  (I'm not an expert on WoW and don't claim to be.)
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