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Ultima Online: The New Life of Ultima Online

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  • archaazarchaaz Member UncommonPosts: 10
    Originally posted by Zitch


     


    UO did have stricter death penalty, you'd lose skill randomly.  Only later did that change where only muderers lost skill on death, part of the consequence for being a PK. It only served to seperate the men from the boys, perma reds were very good fighters.

    But death in UO also left you open to looting. It was full loot, even the critters would loot ya. So you could add FFA pvp with consequences to the list.

    Being a normal blue player, your death was difficult, but nothing you could'nt recover from within a day or two. If you were a perma red (murderer), and died. It may take a while longer to regain the skills. Just a consequence of behavior, like a curse.

     

    I've posted in this thread several times, not spamming... just can't help it. I loved the old UO.
     
    Actually I agree. I was referring to what other games should do, and I think UO's original system was perfect.
  • rogee14rogee14 Member Posts: 18
    I re-upped my account last night (its that time of year again).



    Its fundamentally the same, such that I did what ever I wanted to. But... its just not the same without people everywhere. In 5hrs I think I only saw 5 people. You have to have people there to enjoy the game, that's the key. You have to have the PK's to present a threat to Blues, so Blues bond together for protection. You have to have the roleplaying so there's content to the world. You have to have the crafters to support the adventurers with gear and adventurers to support the crafters with work.



    They key to UO's success was complete unpredictability. What will I do today? Who will I meet? Which friends will I hunt with? Which dungeon will we go to? Will we be challenged by PKs? Will we hunt PKs or PK ourself? Will we come across the spoils of a house that decayed? Will the town criers alert us to a GM run event outside of a city?



    The reason UO is not the old UO, is because there is no one there. There is no voice for it either. If everyone was still playing it and constantly e-mailing the company to create a Classic-UO server, maybe they would do it. But as it is now, the ones who spoke up years ago, the whiners, got their way. Because everyone else who enjoyed the game was too busy playing than reading a dumb forum. Now we're the whiners. But I fear its a pipe dream, a lost cause. We'll never see UO like it used to be.



    Its going to take a new game, a new developer, a new metropolis of players to create and populate the world we all seek.

    UO,EQ,AC,AO,DAoC,Lin,RoE,E&B,SB,EVE,PS,SL,SWG,TT,FFXI,
    HZ,CoH,L2,Ryz,EQ2,WoW,GW,RF,DDO,SR,FoM,Van,

  • RyldRyld Member Posts: 99
    The new life of Ultima Online.

    rip.

    R
  • ZitchZitch Member Posts: 129


    Originally posted by rogee14
    I re-upped my account last night (its that time of year again).Its fundamentally the same, such that I did what ever I wanted to. But... its just not the same without people everywhere. In 5hrs I think I only saw 5 people. You have to have people there to enjoy the game, that's the key. You have to have the PK's to present a threat to Blues, so Blues bond together for protection. You have to have the roleplaying so there's content to the world. You have to have the crafters to support the adventurers with gear and adventurers to support the crafters with work.

    Unfortunately, Trammel happened, and many trivialisations pre-Trammel that changed the game.


    Originally posted by rogee14They key to UO's success was complete unpredictability. What will I do today? Who will I meet? Which friends will I hunt with? Which dungeon will we go to? Will we be challenged by PKs? Will we hunt PKs or PK ourself? Will we come across the spoils of a house that decayed? Will the town criers alert us to a GM run event outside of a city? The reason UO is not the old UO, is because there is no one there. There is no voice for it either. If everyone was still playing it and constantly e-mailing the company to create a Classic-UO server, maybe they would do it. But as it is now, the ones who spoke up years ago, the whiners, got their way. Because everyone else who enjoyed the game was too busy playing than reading a dumb forum. Now we're the whiners. But I fear its a pipe dream, a lost cause. We'll never see UO like it used to be.
    You are quite right, they complained and the developers listened.
    They fixed things that were not broken, or they overly fixed things that only needed slight adjustment. Now no one plays, but some hold onto accounts because they have cash invested, or just can't let go.

    I really have no idea why anyone plays UO anymore.


    Originally posted by rogee14Its going to take a new game, a new developer, a new metropolis of players to create and populate the world we all seek.

    Check out Darkfalls forums. It may take a while, but your support there will advertise a demand for a meaningful MMO again.

    Currently the selection of MMO's we see today are trivial copies of either UO or EQ. The latest "Vanguard" uses features from "both", but favors WoW/EQ style mechanics. Still it's trivial compared to what either UO or EQ was.

    No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
    What I listen to :)

  • Mystic_FuzzMystic_Fuzz Member UncommonPosts: 36
    I still play UO... only because I can't find any other games that look like they can offer a good gaming experience. I've played trials of all the newest MMOs out there, none of them really did it for me at all. None of them had the appeal that UO had when it first came out. The only one that looks remotely good and what I'm looking for is Darkfall, yet I worry that it will be a game filled with griefers rather than players looking for the greatest MMO experience they can get... this is if the game even comes out anytime soon.



    UO has done nothing but incline downhill steadily for the past nearly 7 years. Granted, we see a lot of new people when expansions come out, but they never stay. UO has a lot of issues, the main being that EA doesn't care about its customers, the second being that they don't like to fix things. Over the years, things have broken, people have cheated, exploited, and duped, the world has become unbalanced. And their answer every time was to give people new shiny graphics rather than fix what was broken.



    Granted, the past year, they did do some banning. They tracked known scripters and banned them while deleting their items in game. They tracked dupers and deleted accounts and items in their houses. Then they continued to boast about it like it was some huge victory, posting the numbers of objects and accounts ban. The sad thing was that, while it seemed like a lot, any idiot who had a brain and could do math would see that it was only the icing on the cake. I myself know several people whom should have been banned and weren't and to this day, continue to play as if nothing happened. Plus, the community is still flooded with duped items, since there is no way to tell whether or not an item is indeed duped. And to readd the icing, most of the dupers are back once again doing the same things, and while EA tracks these people, they are out making money and screwing the UO economy in the meantime while EA takes their time to do another mass ban.



    Moving along, the game isn't what it use to be. It use to be a world of danger and excitement. You never knew where danger would lurk around what corner. You couldn't bank sit because a thief might steal that brand new silver sword. Now there is no danger, there is no worry. They have their safe world where you can run around and not have a care in the world because nothing bad will happen.



    There are a lot of other reasons for the downfall of UO, but the fact of all of it is that EA has ruined one of the best games in the world for whatever reasons they can come up with, and I don't see it getting any better. Not with the new, spiffy looking client, not with the new expansion. Because it's not the game that needs to change, it's the dev team, the GMs, and EA itself. They need to once again start to care about UO.



    In the past month, I've logged into the game no more than 6 times. I will check out the new client, but then I will probably be closing my account.

    Ultima Online
    Mystic of The Fallen Lords (Pacific 98-01)
    Mystic of Catskills (03 - 08)

  • sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    Originally posted by rogee14

    I re-upped my account last night (its that time of year again).



    Its fundamentally the same, such that I did what ever I wanted to. But... its just not the same without people everywhere. In 5hrs I think I only saw 5 people. You have to have people there to enjoy the game, that's the key. You have to have the PK's to present a threat to Blues, so Blues bond together for protection. You have to have the roleplaying so there's content to the world. You have to have the crafters to support the adventurers with gear and adventurers to support the crafters with work.



    They key to UO's success was complete unpredictability. What will I do today? Who will I meet? Which friends will I hunt with? Which dungeon will we go to? Will we be challenged by PKs? Will we hunt PKs or PK ourself? Will we come across the spoils of a house that decayed? Will the town criers alert us to a GM run event outside of a city?



    The reason UO is not the old UO, is because there is no one there. There is no voice for it either. If everyone was still playing it and constantly e-mailing the company to create a Classic-UO server, maybe they would do it. But as it is now, the ones who spoke up years ago, the whiners, got their way. Because everyone else who enjoyed the game was too busy playing than reading a dumb forum. Now we're the whiners. But I fear its a pipe dream, a lost cause. We'll never see UO like it used to be.



    Its going to take a new game, a new developer, a new metropolis of players to create and populate the world we all seek.



    Yep. 

    Newer players complained that it was too hard to get a house, but rather than telling them to earn one or make friends and share one, instead the devs thought it would be a good idea to try to give everyone a house by opening land expansion after land expansion.  At least it's probably a good way to sell expansions.  But, what it resulted in is houses becoming almost worthless compared to more limited items in the game.  And it spread the population so thinly that there was much less interaction and the towns became deserted; all except the most convenient to visit.

    UO has been developed with many poor designs from many different developers over the years.  Now it's a wreck.

    I'm sure it would be entirely different today and we would still be playing a quality virutal world if somehow Richard Garriott had managed to buy the rights to it and remain the producer.

  • rogee14rogee14 Member Posts: 18
    Originally posted by Zitch


     



    Originally posted by rogee14
    Its going to take a new game, a new developer, a new metropolis of players to create and populate the world we all seek.

    Check out Darkfalls forums. It may take a while, but your support there will advertise a demand for a meaningful MMO again.

    Currently the selection of MMO's we see today are trivial copies of either UO or EQ. The latest "Vanguard" uses features from "both", but favors WoW/EQ style mechanics. Still it's trivial compared to what either UO or EQ was.

     

    I just watched this [link]http://files.darkfallonline.com/darkfall_battle.wmv video[/link] and am reading around in the MMORPG forums on it... I think I'm sold already. Doing more research before I get my hopes up... again.

    UO,EQ,AC,AO,DAoC,Lin,RoE,E&B,SB,EVE,PS,SL,SWG,TT,FFXI,
    HZ,CoH,L2,Ryz,EQ2,WoW,GW,RF,DDO,SR,FoM,Van,

  • ZitchZitch Member Posts: 129


    Originally posted by rogee14
    I just watched this http://files.darkfallonline.com/darkfall_battle.wmv video and am reading around in the MMORPG forums on it... I think I'm sold already. Doing more research before I get my hopes up... again.

    Yeah this one's a turtle in the developement cycle, likely to be a while....

    Small group of developers working from a small studio in Greece.

    It seems to have new life as of late, and may announce a beta soon (just a guess). Still it's the only concept worth looking at IMO. Everything else out there is pretty much generic crap. Level progression, quests, and item centric games. Nothing very different between them... even Vanguard which I had hoped would be inovative, was not.

    (Diplomacy is the only thing new from Vanguard, and remains to be seen how inovative that sytem will be).

    Anyways keep an eye on it... (Darkfall)

    No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
    What I listen to :)

  • AwakenedAwakened Member UncommonPosts: 595
    UO died for me when they made item-based combat.  Too bad, I'd play it again in a heart beat if it weren't so. 

    What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?

  • Xix13Xix13 Member Posts: 259

    Man, and this thread is why UO had to change.  They'd have nowhere near the base of players they have now if they kept the open PvP free loot all system you folks loved so much.  I played UO for a number of years in the Trammel/AoS era and enjoyed it immensely, until my community disappeared to other, newer games.  Still have an active account, I believe.  I'd heard all the talk of the "Good Old Days" of UO, so I hopped onto Seige Perilous one day to get at least a small taste of what it must have been like.  Couldn't set foot outside of town.  Couldn't mine.  Couldn't travel.  Couldn't get to the moongate.  Couldn't do anything except stare at my toon.  When I did, there was some hi level mage to kill me and loot my 2 herbs, my mining pick, and my 3 rocks.  This is FUN?  No thank you.  I'm happy you folks all managed to somehow get your skill pts maxed out so you could stand at the moongates and kill and loot low level toons.  What great fun you fearless folks must have.  Oh, and those rare ocassions when the guild managed to make it thru a Champ Spawn and actually get a scroll or two.  Out of herbs, out of ammo, and there you were, just sitting invisible waiting to kill and loot us all on our way back.  Yup.  Great fun.  The good old days.

    Sorry, guys, but that's exactly the type of gameplay that killed off hardcore PvP.  You guys just couldn't resist ganking the noobs, which would be death to any game intending to draw in an audience.  That isn't "reality", it's childishness.  No self-respecting criminal would mug somebody for a handful of pennies in the middle of Grand Central Station.  There are real life penalties in place to see that doesn't happen.  Pickpocket the pennies, maybe.  But not the wholescale slaughter of newbs you folks all seem to love so much.

    So now we need to have PvP-only servers or areas or PvP flags and all sorts of other stuf to try and control players who just can't control themselves enough to let the rest of us enjoy ourselves.  I really do hope that somebody someday does make a full looting PvP everywhere game for you guys to enjoy.  Maybe it'll keep you out of the rest of our games and let us enjoy a little entertainment.

    Good work, UO, in continuing a fine game and giving it a badly needed graphics update.

    -- Xix
    "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"

  • HensenLirosHensenLiros Member Posts: 461
    Originally posted by Xix13


    Man, and this thread is why UO had to change.  They'd have nowhere near the base of players they have now if they kept the open PvP free loot all system you folks loved so much.  I played UO for a number of years in the Trammel/AoS era and enjoyed it immensely, until my community disappeared to other, newer games.  Still have an active account, I believe.  I'd heard all the talk of the "Good Old Days" of UO, so I hopped onto Seige Perilous one day to get at least a small taste of what it must have been like.  Couldn't set foot outside of town.  Couldn't mine.  Couldn't travel.  Couldn't get to the moongate.  Couldn't do anything except stare at my toon.  When I did, there was some hi level mage to kill me and loot my 2 herbs, my mining pick, and my 3 rocks.  This is FUN?  No thank you.  I'm happy you folks all managed to somehow get your skill pts maxed out so you could stand at the moongates and kill and loot low level toons.  What great fun you fearless folks must have.  Oh, and those rare ocassions when the guild managed to make it thru a Champ Spawn and actually get a scroll or two.  Out of herbs, out of ammo, and there you were, just sitting invisible waiting to kill and loot us all on our way back.  Yup.  Great fun.  The good old days.
    Sorry, guys, but that's exactly the type of gameplay that killed off hardcore PvP.  You guys just couldn't resist ganking the noobs, which would be death to any game intending to draw in an audience.  That isn't "reality", it's childishness.  No self-respecting criminal would mug somebody for a handful of pennies in the middle of Grand Central Station.  There are real life penalties in place to see that doesn't happen.  Pickpocket the pennies, maybe.  But not the wholescale slaughter of newbs you folks all seem to love so much.
    So now we need to have PvP-only servers or areas or PvP flags and all sorts of other stuf to try and control players who just can't control themselves enough to let the rest of us enjoy ourselves.  I really do hope that somebody someday does make a full looting PvP everywhere game for you guys to enjoy.  Maybe it'll keep you out of the rest of our games and let us enjoy a little entertainment.
    Good work, UO, in continuing a fine game and giving it a badly needed graphics update.

     

    That's the difference between people who are into hardcore games and people who aren't. PLEASE don't misunderstand the meaning of "hardcore". Hardcore has a meaning of "above the normal", and in that case UO was the best hardcore game I've ever played in my life. If you don't like to have adrenaline running through your whole body after seeing a red running far away from you, then you wouldn't have enjoyed the old UO days at all.

    And only because of that it doesn't mean that the game is childish, you are the one that sounds childish enough by saying that a game sucks because you got pawned while mining. Games can't attract every type of players, or else there wouldn't have so many WoW haters around, and UO would have 16 million subscribers by now.

    Ultima Online 98~04
    Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
    Final Fantasy XI 04~06
    Guild Wars 05~08
    World of Warcraft 04~05
    Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG

  • Xix13Xix13 Member Posts: 259

    Well, I guess that's the point then.  Can a "hardcore" game generate enough income for a company to make and support it?  If UO was, indeed, the finest example of "hardcore" gaming, then the answer, obviously, is No, it can't.  There weren't even many competitors at the time, so they could direct the market in whichever direction they wanted.  Because they chose to go with the Trammel/Felucca route, insurance and other ways to make death less of an impact shows clearly that they could NOT make the kind of money they needed just off "hardcore" players.

    What I don't understand is why you folks all didn't just stick to Felucca?  Why did Trammel bother you so much?  Why didn't all you hardcore folks make Felucca as vibrant an area as you wanted?  Was it that the only folks who went to Felucca were other hardcore players?  That the noobs stayed out of there?  Does noob-ganking really equal "hardcore" play?  And, after all, we Trammelites DID have to travel to Felucca to do the Champ Spawns for the scrolls, so you got your shot at us when we did.  What, too many of us usually?  We could have been organized and ready for you on the way out?  My guild rarely was, so while we weren't newbie toons, we were mostly out of herbs and ammo by the time we got out, so we couldn't put up much of a fight, and you mages could always easily outgun the melee toons anyway.  That's what I don't get.  Why didn't you make Felucca what you wanted?  It was there.  It was open.  You even got double resources there, so you got the ocassional shot at a miner.  (Of course, you DID have to be careful, 'cause that innocent miner might also have been a hi level mage.  A friend used to love to bait gankers with his miner/mage in Felucca.)

    Yes, I've always been a PvE enthusiast, mainly because I really suck at PvP in any game.  Always have and always will.  I know, "Practice".  That's what I'm always told.  Unfortunately, no matter how much I practice, I just can't react well/fast enough in PvP.  Group PvP is OK.  I used to love pre-CU SWG base battles.  And I don't mind getting killed in Ground Zero in Auto Assault because there's no death penalty at all.  In that game, PvP actually becomes kind of fun, but you also don't get to that area until your toon is a high enough level to at least stand a chance.  It's the Hi Level mage ganking out the new toon that annoys me.  There's no way for the low level guy to advance if he can't even leave the town or pick up an herb or two to cast a spell.  There's the difference between adreniline rush and frustration, and the latter is not fun for the vast majority of players.  It may be fine for you "hardcore" types and, like I said, I really do hope that somebody will make your dream game someday.  But it won't be a large company effort because there's not enough of you out there to support the costs involved.

    I really think the day the "hardcore" thief killed Lord British marked the beginning of the end of "hardcore" MMOs.  ("Hey, I just wanted to see what would happen!")  That's when the first seeds were planted that maybe this wasn't the kind of game the makers had in mind.  The kind of game that would generate WoW numbers and WoW profits.  The kind of game that would still be going strong 10 years later.  Which is, in reality, the whole point in the first place.

    Oh, and by the way, it DOES seem that somebody's heard you guys after all.  If you don't make Darkfall everything you want it to be, then I don't know what you want at all.  Somebody's giving you a shot.  Take it and prove all us Carebears wrong.

    -- Xix
    "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"

  • nekbloodnekblood Member Posts: 1

    Bump.

    This site hosts a well populated old school server: http://www.uogamers.com.

    p.s. Rogee, if you're still around, I was Cooper in NWJ in the old school days.  Get in touch if you're around!

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,648

    If only they made it like WoW's 3rd person view, made the game zoomable...

    I'm sure they could have done it by now if they didn't do something stupid like waste all that money on UO 2.

    12 years later and there is a 2nd race?

    12 years!!!

    Wow i can't believe how long that has been....

    I remember my three years of UO so fondly...    i'd go back if the graphics were even as old as WoW's (2003 was only 5 years after 1997 and their graphics still look light years ahead of UO's updated graphics)

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,648
    Originally posted by Xix13


    Man, and this thread is why UO had to change.  They'd have nowhere near the base of players they have now if they kept the open PvP free loot all system you folks loved so much.  I played UO for a number of years in the Trammel/AoS era and enjoyed it immensely, until my community disappeared to other, newer games.  Still have an active account, I believe.  I'd heard all the talk of the "Good Old Days" of UO, so I hopped onto Seige Perilous one day to get at least a small taste of what it must have been like.  Couldn't set foot outside of town.  Couldn't mine.  Couldn't travel.  Couldn't get to the moongate.  Couldn't do anything except stare at my toon.  When I did, there was some hi level mage to kill me and loot my 2 herbs, my mining pick, and my 3 rocks.  This is FUN?  No thank you.  I'm happy you folks all managed to somehow get your skill pts maxed out so you could stand at the moongates and kill and loot low level toons.  What great fun you fearless folks must have.  Oh, and those rare ocassions when the guild managed to make it thru a Champ Spawn and actually get a scroll or two.  Out of herbs, out of ammo, and there you were, just sitting invisible waiting to kill and loot us all on our way back.  Yup.  Great fun.  The good old days.
    Sorry, guys, but that's exactly the type of gameplay that killed off hardcore PvP.  You guys just couldn't resist ganking the noobs, which would be death to any game intending to draw in an audience.  That isn't "reality", it's childishness.  No self-respecting criminal would mug somebody for a handful of pennies in the middle of Grand Central Station.  There are real life penalties in place to see that doesn't happen.  Pickpocket the pennies, maybe.  But not the wholescale slaughter of newbs you folks all seem to love so much.
    So now we need to have PvP-only servers or areas or PvP flags and all sorts of other stuf to try and control players who just can't control themselves enough to let the rest of us enjoy ourselves.  I really do hope that somebody someday does make a full looting PvP everywhere game for you guys to enjoy.  Maybe it'll keep you out of the rest of our games and let us enjoy a little entertainment.
    Good work, UO, in continuing a fine game and giving it a badly needed graphics update.

     

    UO had a lot less players in the "good old days" 

    Siege Perillious IS NOT old school UO.

    Think about it, back in the day EVERY Server was PVP, it wasn't like you went to a special server to gank people, it was just how things were.

    Not everyone you met was a murderer, there were many PKs and PKKs and guilds that did all sorts of peace keeping.

    SP is a shallow ghost of what UO used to be.

    I'm sorry you weren't around for it, was good times too.

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