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Jaded gamers
Xyang
Member Posts: 216
I'll admit, i'm myself part of a crowd called the "jaded gamers". I have a hard time to find anything good on the market right now. The fact that i've worked for Ubi Soft and EA in the past, only contributes to turn me even more off with the gaming industry... When you see from the "inside" how those companies litteraly "botch" their games and don't give a shit about their fan base, it's really disearthening.
So when you have lost all of your illusion, it's kind of hard to await a new title with hope. And when a new promising title (like Vanguard for example) come out, i can't help but see all the flaws in the game instead of the good points. Especially when those flaws shows the same "we don't care" syndrom of the developper toward it's fan base.
Basically, i haven't been satisfied by an MMO for my whole life. The first one i started to play hardcore was Dark Age of Camelot, and there was a lot left to be desired. Then, i quited after they release that aweful trial of atlantis. I tried a few others along the way, but the only one i was able to play a few months after that was WoW. Needless to say WoW was WAY MORE of a disapointment. When you think at all the ressources and talent Blizzard has, only to pull out such crappy kiddies bull shit and dumb game like this...
Then i tried EvE, which must be the slowest and most boring game i've ever played. No matter how cool the end game seems to be, the pace is so slow to start with and you're fired up with so many interfaces that i quit after 2 hours. I want to have FUN, not to READ 100 HOURS OF MANUAL BEFORE I START DOING SO FFS!
Then you have all those clones of each other, not to mention all the wannabes... You then end up with the sad sad fact that WoW is "still" the number one currently on the market 
It will stay like this until War Hammer... Age of Conan is following the same idiotic concept of "raiding gear is the best" then WoW so it will be bull shit, just for that simple fact. A PvP game CANNOT base it's gear around raid: Ever heard of CRAFTING?!
And what if War Hammer does not live to it's expectation? It's too soon to call the shot on it. I'm in complete withdrawal of playing a good MMO, but i realise there never was a good one when i look back at it. It's like they are setting the bar so low compare to any other games and counting on the fact that "people" will make their game fun... Well it's not happening.
So yeah, i'm jaded. Jaded of games. Jaded of people like you morons constantly babling in this forum, thinking that you know what you're talking about... I've yet to hear anything intelligent from people here, so i guess not many work in the gaming industry. Obviously, players don't have a clue about how things can and "should" be done, and they keep eating the crap those companies sends to them. Shame on you all who are still playing games like WoW: You're just as disgusting as that 300 pounds dude eating McDonalds with a big smile.
For the very small percentage that still has the decency to keep their money and wait for a game that will prolly never come, i bow to you...
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Comments
and I thought my complaining about complainers post got some flame responses....
i can't wait to see what people say about your post....
hats off to you
lol thank you
Obviously, my post was a nice filter for a lot of loosers who won't find anything to contradict me here... No replies mean that nothing more can be add because of a strong argument. Although i'm pretty sure some troll will find a way to make a fool of himself somehow... But those with a big ego will always avoid strong thread that can't be beat up with stupid argumentation. Which i admit, is a very good thing
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
It seem's that all of todays and a majority of upcoming MMORPG's are simply EQ clones / cash cows all competing for a share of WOW's success.
By that i mean, dumbed down, mindless, repetitive grinds that keep players occupied for as long as possible - $'s.
Sigh..UO...how i miss thee.
yeah i guess i agree. the only game that was ever worth playing was Star Wars Galaxies but then the CU. ZOMG? LIKE WTF!
i will prolly never buy a game with SOE. They do not know how to release a game that i worth anything. I just hope that they cause enough chaos with Vanguard so that everyone will wake up and realize that the fun...IS A DREAM!
Is the implication that all intelligent people work in the gaming industry?
Or is the impication that only people who work in the gaming industry can make intelligent comments about games?
Does the OP work in the gaming industry, making his comments at least eligible for consideration as intelligent?
Or does the OP no longer work in the gaming industry, making his comments no longer eligible for consideration as intelligent?
To OP, the way you act, dont make me belive that you worked at EA , and UBI, your way to post is very chilish.
If you never liked a MMO, defnetly, go play other games, MMO´s are not for you.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
lol yeah right... As if you knew anything about how people behave in a gaming company anyway
I live in montreal, and the only established video game company here are Ubi soft montreal and Electronic Arts. Would had love to work with Bethesda or epic games but hey, we only have those 2 lame company over here.
Now, i don't know why i bother to answer to your stupid post, but i guess it just made my point that some idiotic troll would come to "try" to discredit my words with some completely moronic argument that doesn't even relate to the subject.
People like you make me go jaded even more... So predictable.... "yawn"
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Now "this" show a glimpse of intelligence. To answer:
1- Definitely not. The gaming industry has it's share of wannabes. Sadly though, the piece of crap are those who take the decisions most of the time. Money talk, bull shit walk, and ass licker always finish first.
2- Assuming you compare a gamer and a worker in the industry with the same I.Q. and gaming culture: Yes. It does give you a big edge to see the show from the backstage perspective, providing you are working with the production, and not only as a play tester.
3- Well if you have find anything in those forum intelligent so far, i surely classify as a genius. Otherwise, no. Use your judgement.
4- I still work in the gaming industry, just not for the big corporate junk food producer anymore. Feels great too! Money is not as good, but i would rather make an honest job, respecting my customer and player base who appreciate a good product, rather then selling burgers to a bunch of fat ass or dumb brain like the WoW crowd. The mean to make money is just as important as the result in my pocket at the end of a month.
Thank you for post. You are indeed welcome in this thread
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Second life? I hope you're kidding... I've seen that game, and 99% of the content is casinos and whore house... If you bother to do anything original, most people won't even bother to look at it. Besides, that animation is choppy and well, making money?! Lol yeah sure... If for you making 10 bucks a month for 1000 hours of work is making money
As far as city of hero goes, you are right, it's different. Yet it gets old pretty quick. I've played 6 months of WoW before trashing it. (I gave them the chance to prove me wrong until the battleground, which was obvious after that the game would never live up to my expectation, but mostly to "their own" lies that kept me following their product for over 2 years before release.) All to say that i got bored of CoH in even less time.
Keep trying.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Best of AoC's PvE gear will be crafted, and the best of the PvP gear will be bought with PvP spoils.
Raids are usefull for retrieving rare crafting materials that are time consuming to get otherwise, little more in terms of getting the best gear.
Other than that, there is little factually wrong with your post, carry on!
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
First, I want to argue that your experience as a game developer makes you any better of a judge of a good game, than someone who has not. I would argue that anyone's gaming experience is a moot point in being able to adequately judge a game. The only thing it would do, I would argue, is make you more able to comparably judge a particular game against a different game. Experience does not make you impartial to a game either. I would argue it would make you MORE partial in your assessment of a game. You actually seem to agree with this point when you say "When you see from the 'inside' ... it's really disearthening". Clearly your experience has made you harder to please. Back to the origonal point of this paragraph, I believe that anyone of the same intelligence (ability to learn, see patterns, etc.) regardless of their experience should equally be given the same amount of respect when judging a game. Therefore, I regret your thesis that your experience makes you any better of a judge of a game's "fun" level as anyone else.
My second point doesn't necessarily go with anything you said, it's more of a response. You say that "Basically, I haven't been satisfied by an MMO for my whole life." You need to realize something. Unless YOU develope every single aspect of your dream game, you'll never been 100% satisfied with ANY game, ever. Even still you are going to be limited by whatever technological limitations there are at the time of development. I further this point, because no one on earth could possibly know everything you want in a game, from every single angle without being able to read your mind. I gaurantee you that there are parts of a game that you want that you would forget. To prove this I ask you, has your idea of the perfect game always stayed the same? Have you ever wanted a sci-fi instead of fantasy game 100% of the time? Doubt it.
My third point is a bit of advice. I read your post with the understanding that you were venting frustraition. But a lot of people will read this "So yeah, i'm jaded. Jaded of games. Jaded of people like you morons constantly babling in this forum, thinking that you know what you're talking about... I've yet to hear anything intelligent from people here, so i guess not many work in the gaming industry." This is basically a slap to the face of anyone who enjoys some of the games you don't. You need to get over yourself if you expect any type of decent conversation. I'm sorry you haven't found your perfect game, but just because you don't like it, doesn't make it bad. All it does, is just make it a game YOU don't like, nothing more.
My fourth point is actually something that I agree with you on. A lot of gaming companies do not listen to their fanbase. A lot of them lie. Its unfortunate to see many games with a lot of potential go down the drain. I don't think I waste my money on crap games. I tend to play trials first and see if I like the game. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and try to convince you that one gaming company DOES listen to their fanbase (you already said you didn't like the game I was thinking about) so I'm going to leave you with this...
Remember that your perfect game, is only a dream. Stick with trials until you find a game you like. There's many games out there, hell, try another genre. That's the great thing about trials and demos. And remember, you are not, nor never will be, the end all guru of gaming, and neither will I. Remember that just because people disagree with you doesn't make them stupid. Also, if you don't like the current games out there, (i'm sure you've heard this before) and since you have experience in the gaming industry, come up with a business plan, find investors, and start coding your dream game!
-Smokemon
p.s. I don't edit my posts, so please forgive typos.
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Now that console and PC gaming is so lucrative the big companies with big pocket books have moved in and squeezed out most of the small upstarts, the ones who usually have the best ideas. So we get stuck with the equivalent of Britney Spears, Harry Potters, and Mission Impossibles for our PC's. Ideally we would all band together and refuse to buy into the lackluster products. Unfortunately so many are simply hungry and will consume whatever is put in front of them regardless if it's a filet mignon or a 1/4 pounder with cheese.
You're never going to get those people to change but you can try to get yourself into a position in a game company where you are calling the shots and make a great product. So stop wasting your time and hop to it! We need a decent game to play.
*sigh* Lots of children nowadays, pretending to be game gurus... Forums are really turning into some sort of Ego fondler for kids
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Well, for what its worth (never having been even on the front door-step of a game development company
), here's my take on it all.
I TOO AM A JADED GAMER.
Why? Well, like many people here I've tried my fair share of MMORPGS. I could put together a fairly sizeable list of what I feel is wrong with alot of games, but I wont bore you with that. So the question is this..why do I keep coming back for more?
Well, I dont need mmorpgs to make friends, quite honestly, although I've certainly met some really cool people over the past 4 years I've been playing online games. I have an active social life, and plenty of friends, so dont look to mmorpgs as a primary source of socialising. The games themselves rarely stimulate me as much as a strategy game would, or engage me like a FPS. So I repeat...
Why do I keep coming back for more? I'm 31, I have a young family, I should've grown up by now, right?
Simply put, the reason I, and many others like me, keep trying new games, is the PROMISE of what an online experience could offer in the future, or hopefully near future. And no lol im not talking about cybersex, I'd prefer the real deal thanks all the same (saw some pretty weird shiit in Second Life, thought it was kinda funny at first, then realised everyone else was actually taking it seriouslly, a little too seriously...and I ran away and uninstalled
)
So, what am I looking for?
Well, what I dont need is a second job. In many of these games, the repititious nature of the tasks and levelling (grind) is akin to a second job. I'd also like to think that after surviving my teenage years I've finally started to round myself out, y'know, sort my head out. I no longer feel the need to stick my chest out when walking past women for example
, or tell people I have a ten inch...you know what I mean 
, so no the whole materialistic gold-rush style, the status cliques and elitism in mmorpgs doesnt really do it for me either...that seems to be the muddy ground that many a teenager finds himself mired in unfortunately. Although Im not critisizing teenagers, I think it's fair to day that in general, every age bracket looks for something different in games.
So, to the answer....IMMERSION in a word...an experience offered via the internet that can't be found in the real world. Something beyond, dare I say it, an almost spiritual experience...
, I know that sounds corny. And no I'm not talking about monsters and elves. Most mmorpgs at present are just eye-candy with time-fills and the promise of an ego-massage or the satisfaction of a job well-done at the end of it. All of these things are fine of course....trouble is they're usually hollow promises. Perhaps the technology just isn't there at the moment. Perhaps the imagination isn't there, I just dont know...I've been on the look-out for something that might offer me a genuine alternate experience...SEED, ROMA VICTOR, Trials of Ascension..the first one imploded, the second one came out with a belly-flop although it might be improving, the third is currently lost somewhere in the twilight zone. STAR TREK ONLINE? Pirates of the burning sea? Hope these can offer up something interesting...perhaps when EVE gets walking Avatars and includes plantets etc.. otherwise I'm gonna have to turn my back on the whole genre for a few years, maybe come back in 2035...
Perhaps theyll have joysticks built onto zimmer-frames by then, which might come in handy.
There's a lot to discuss about in your post, but i'll stick to facts instead of assumptions. Thank you for elevating the debate as well.
I really don't agree with your second and final statement. I've been satisfied with a "lot" of games currently on the market. Simply no MMO and that's where i insist. I found the Elder Scrolls to be very high quality product, even Oblivion. I like the Civilisation strategy series as well, although there's still some work on the multiplayer side. I consider Sid Meyer and Will Wright as a model i'm trying to follow. They "are" definitely people i bow myself to and was very humble when i met them. (Was easier with Will, since he's been with EA for a while now) There's a short list of good quality product like that which i appraise every time i get the chance. My only problem is that in 10 freaking years, ALL the MMO sucked ass! I don't care if you think it's "just my opinion". George W. Bush sucks too, and it's not just an opinion. Any human being with half a brain and common sense would think just that. So it's no different for a game.
When you go see your doctor, do you tell him that "it's just his opinion" when he's telling you what are the problems with your health or what not? When you have a car wreck, do you tell the mecanician "oh well, it's just your opinion that my car is a wreck... The whipper and radio still works therefore, i think it's a good and reliable car....
Same concept applies with games: When you want to see if a game is good and what is broken or not, you ask an experienced game designer, which i fall into this category. So "yes", it "does" make my judgement a hell above others, just like a doctor is much more qualified then you are to call the shot on your health. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Now yes, there are bad doctors, bad game designer and surely a crap load of bad mecanician. But i'm never taking those who are a shame for their profession as a standard.
And as far as your last statement goes: I am indeed working on a few dream games which if they ever get funded, will be my one way ticket to the hall of fame
I still feel like i must keep in touch with the community, and although i'm aware that people don't like to be treated like cockroach, i'm just giving them what they are asking for. You should never complain that you're being walked on, if you act like a carpet... Gamers need to get a clue once and for all, and my fight won't stop until then.
Best regards.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Thanks for bringing that to light. For all i've seen in the forum was miss leading to say the least. If crafting is ultimately what makes the best gear, then i have no problem with the raid providing the materials. It must not be bind on pick up though... (the worst invention ever) Bind on pick up forces you to do content you don't like to do. But if i can use my craft to make money, and another dude is willing to go raid and i'm buying the stuff from him after, i'll have no problem what so ever with the system.
P.S. As far as AoC goes, i'm already planning to give it a chance on the X-Box 360. That is, if the game is actually playable. Although i don't trust people judgement's on core game mechanics, i trust them with stuff like bugs they find lag and such. So you could say everybody has a role at the end, and as long as you know your role, i'm a happy camper
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You seem to have a conflict of interest going here. You say :
When you see from the "inside" how those companies litteraly "botch" their games and don't give a shit about their fan base, it's really disearthening.
Then :
Obviously, players don't have a clue about how things can and "should" be done, and they keep eating the crap those companies sends to them.
and :
I still feel like i must keep in touch with the community, and although i'm aware that people don't like to be treated like cockroach, i'm just giving them what they are asking for.
You complain that companies treat thier playerbase like crap, yet you go on to insult players and tell them their opinions mean nothing because they aren't part of the big corporate mousewheel. Hypocrital, don't you think?
News for you, friend, when you're starving, you'll eat what's put in front of you so you can make it to the day when you get a banquet. And it doesn't take a Julia Child to know when something you've been handed is rotten. Players can make or break a game, and that can just as easily come prior to a game's release as it can post launch. Players get bad community relations during alpha or beta, that word will get around just as fast as rampant bugs and hacks in gold. You have to be able to find the middle ground between what your playerbase wants and what will work for the game. If you won't, then better start counting the number of nails you will need for that coffin.
~~~~~~~~~
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
give us a single player(ie solo) experience like fallout 1/2-diablo 1,and pvp like early daoc with no bots
When you go see your doctor, do you tell him that "it's just his opinion" when he's telling you what are the problems with your health or what not? When you have a car wreck, do you tell the mecanician "oh well, it's just your opinion that my car is a wreck... The whipper and radio still works therefore, i think it's a good and reliable car....
Same concept applies with games: When you want to see if a game is good and what is broken or not, you ask an experienced game designer, which i fall into this category. So "yes", it "does" make my judgement a hell above others, just like a doctor is much more qualified then you are to call the shot on your health. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Now yes, there are bad doctors, bad game designer and surely a crap load of bad mecanician. But i'm never taking those who are a shame for their profession as a standard.
You have some very valid points, but your examples here just don't make any sense. Everything any doctor/mechanic tells you is all opinion. Some more educated than others but still opinion.
Just like your "perfect game" you may love it, but there could be 10 others that totally hate it. If game developers tried to please every single fan/player playing their mmo's, they'd be garbage. From what I've experienced, game developers try to design their games for a specific playstyle. You have a few that try to cater to all and look what you end up with. Take WoW for example, a game that for the most part was designed with the "casual gamer" in mind, until you reach lvl 60( now 70) and WHAM!! RAID OR SUCK. Rude awakening for those "casual gamers" don't you think? Anyway, point I'm trying to make is, it's very difficult to make a game fun for everyone.
My current game is Eve, been playing since release and i enjoy it. Its usally a few days playing and then a few days off.
Played EQ2, WoW. Was looking forward to trying Vanguard. But im not so sure now. WoW is the only game to really keep me and that was due to meeting some good people ingame who made leveling fun and enjoyable, which is what you really want from a game.
Errr... Ok. You're not the brightest bulb around are you?
"They" (the corporate) don't respect you by taking your money in exchanged of unfinished, crappy and buggy product.
"I" don't respect you for buying it.
Get it now?
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
I wish you good luck with bringing out a game that satisfies you. I'm not sure it will satisfy most people, but if it satisfies some who aren't satisfied now (you included), then it's a good thing.