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Material or Abstract
Boozbaz
Member Posts: 1,918
Are we material, or are we abstract?
Are we material, are we our bodies, composed of atoms and are bound by the physical laws that govern the universe?
Or are we abstract, existing in a matrix where we believe there are physical things blocking our walking path- when really, we're not walking at all, we're just imagining that we are?
Or are we a combination of the two? Where our bodies are physical, in a material world, but somewhere, let's say a peice of our brain, is not part of this world- it is abstract. And all electronic impulses pass through this part, freeing us from the physical laws that rob us of free will?
The third option is sort of the ghost in the machine. The first one means that we are fated, and that all of our actions can be calculated, from birth until death. The second option is obviously like from the matrix movie. I don't know, what do you think?
Are we material, are we our bodies, composed of atoms and are bound by the physical laws that govern the universe?
Or are we abstract, existing in a matrix where we believe there are physical things blocking our walking path- when really, we're not walking at all, we're just imagining that we are?
Or are we a combination of the two? Where our bodies are physical, in a material world, but somewhere, let's say a peice of our brain, is not part of this world- it is abstract. And all electronic impulses pass through this part, freeing us from the physical laws that rob us of free will?
The third option is sort of the ghost in the machine. The first one means that we are fated, and that all of our actions can be calculated, from birth until death. The second option is obviously like from the matrix movie. I don't know, what do you think?
Comments
We are a mix of the two. I feel that our bodies hold us to this realm, but there is something inside, a soul perhaps. It enables us free thought, emotion, free will. When our bodies wear out, the soul lives on, either to inhabit another host, or to continue on to either an infinite void, or something most would call "heaven"
Really, theres probably a more logical explaination, such as our emotions (like love) are just caused by electrical pulses, and it is just a result of the deep carnal desire to fornicate and make babies, but that depresses me to no end, so I'm sticking to my theory.
*edit* okay going back to numbers. Do numbers exist in the world? Is there a number two that is bound to the physical world? I am withought an example that proves the answer to be "yes", so I'll assume that numbers are abstract, and therefore, abstract exists.
IF abstract exists, then there must be something that binds it to the plane of physical existence. Perhaps that binding force is the ghost in our bodies.
Then what is the plane on which abstract exists?
lawl
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I'd have to say yes. I have the ability to teleport.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
I'd have to say yes. I have the ability to teleport.
The ability to... teleport...
right.
but, numbers. They were created by us. 2 is a symbol for how many there are. Though the symbol is physical, there are different ways to interpret it. For example, 2 is two in english, ni in japanese (also = in the kanji system), dos in spainish, e.t.c.
an abstract idea has no set way in interpret it, therfore numbers would be abstract, would they not? Or am I just babbling today? Idunno
I'd have to say yes. I have the ability to teleport.
The ability to... teleport...
right.
but, numbers. They were created by us. 2 is a symbol for how many there are. Though the symbol is physical, there are different ways to interpret it. For example, 2 is two in english, ni in japanese (also = in the kanji system), dos in spainish, e.t.c.
an abstract idea has no set way in interpret it, therfore numbers would be abstract, would they not? Or am I just babbling today? Idunno
It may be called differently, but the symbol's definition never changes. 2 never equals 4, and 2 + 2 never equals chair.I'd have to say yes. I have the ability to teleport.
The ability to... teleport...
right.
but, numbers. They were created by us. 2 is a symbol for how many there are. Though the symbol is physical, there are different ways to interpret it. For example, 2 is two in english, ni in japanese (also = in the kanji system), dos in spainish, e.t.c.
an abstract idea has no set way in interpret it, therfore numbers would be abstract, would they not? Or am I just babbling today? Idunno
It may be called differently, but the symbol's definition never changes. 2 never equals 4, and 2 + 2 never equals chair.Yeah, you're right. Blah
But wouldn't it be awesome is 2+2= chair? I'd have so much fun doodling random objects in math
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
I do not believe for one second that this universe is restricted to only matter and physical laws of nature...that includes we as humans...I do not believe that human consciousness is generated purely by chemical and electrical impulses
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
If you're asking what I think you're asking, how the hell do we know?
For all we know, we could be in a Matrix like situation. All we know is what our senses tell us. And if our senses are lying? Everything we know is wrong. I'm not actually typing on this computer right now (Seeing as how it probably doesn't exist), and when I go to hit the Post button with the imaginary mouse, The post which hasn't even truely been typed has not ended up on the internet, which doesn't exist either. In between, all the breathing I'm not doing is pointless because there really isn't any air, and I don't need it, because I really don't exist.
When you think about it that deeply, though, you could possibly come to the conclusion that everything is concrete as well. Basically, If none of this exists, then it must all exist. If it's all supposed to be just an illusion, something exists for you to be percieving that delusion (Your Conciousness), and as such everything is actually real, because your conciousness is real and percieving these things.
Hell, I dunno, I think I may have confused myself. My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter. I percieve that I'm sitting in a chair typing this response. Whether my senses are lying or not, I'll never know. My only choice (Short of suicide, which I'm not planning on trying seeing as the risk it entails is quite a bit too high for the reward) is to trust them.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
A numbe is a measurement. So is time. But are measurments tangible things? are they forms of energy, or matter, or anything at all beyond what we invented them to be? Not that I know of. Therefore I came to the conclusion that they exist in the abstract realm, and that therefore, there IS an abstract realm. But hey, I could be wrong.
Well, I was really presenting both schools of thinking, but yeah. I can drift way off into thought sometimes and completely ignore everyone else, and this is usually the type of stuff I find myself thinking about. My real opinion is just to live life like there are no abstracts, because I don't know any better way.
Sure, a number is a measurement, but it sort of signifies a tangible thing, I think. Saying I have two video games signifies that I have one video game here and another video game there. Going by that logic, all adjectives are subject to abstractness. I would call this website blue, but is it really blue? What if it's actually green? We invented that it was blue. This connects to measurements, as all measurements are is just a complicated way of describing something. I don't think as a sense that Measurements can be abstract if everything isn't abstract. If my moniter isn't X by Y inches, when I know it is X by Y inches, then we're screwed, as my senses are lying to me. Basically, if I can touch it and measure it using a ruler, geting the exact correct amount , which is X by Y, but it really isn't X by Y in truth, then we have.... I'm not quite sure what we have, but lets just settle that it would be problematic, seeing as how nothing that we know could possibly be real. See what I'm saying? All we can do is trust our senses and hope they aren't lying. However, if they are, we will have no way of knowing whatsoever, and since we can't do something about something we don't know exists, we might as well go on with our daily lives. Ignorance is Bliss, I guess.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Well, I was really presenting both schools of thinking, but yeah. I can drift way off into thought sometimes and completely ignore everyone else, and this is usually the type of stuff I find myself thinking about. My real opinion is just to live life like there are no abstracts, because I don't know any better way.
Sure, a number is a measurement, but it sort of signifies a tangible thing, I think. Saying I have two video games signifies that I have one video game here and another video game there. Going by that logic, all adjectives are subject to abstractness. I would call this website blue, but is it really blue? What if it's actually green? We invented that it was blue. This connects to measurements, as all measurements are is just a complicated way of describing something. I don't think as a sense that Measurements can be abstract if everything isn't abstract. If my moniter isn't X by Y inches, when I know it is X by Y inches, then we're screwed, as my senses are lying to me. Basically, if I can touch it and measure it using a ruler, geting the exact correct amount , which is X by Y, but it really isn't X by Y in truth, then we have.... I'm not quite sure what we have, but lets just settle that it would be problematic, seeing as how nothing that we know could possibly be real. See what I'm saying? All we can do is trust our senses and hope they aren't lying. However, if they are, we will have no way of knowing whatsoever, and since we can't do something about something we don't know exists, we might as well go on with our daily lives. Ignorance is Bliss, I guess.
We invented inch, and we invented blue. Therefor, if it fits our dfeinition of an inch, or our definition of blue, then it is. We can't be wrong about it when we defined it in the first place.Well, I was really presenting both schools of thinking, but yeah. I can drift way off into thought sometimes and completely ignore everyone else, and this is usually the type of stuff I find myself thinking about. My real opinion is just to live life like there are no abstracts, because I don't know any better way.
Sure, a number is a measurement, but it sort of signifies a tangible thing, I think. Saying I have two video games signifies that I have one video game here and another video game there. Going by that logic, all adjectives are subject to abstractness. I would call this website blue, but is it really blue? What if it's actually green? We invented that it was blue. This connects to measurements, as all measurements are is just a complicated way of describing something. I don't think as a sense that Measurements can be abstract if everything isn't abstract. If my moniter isn't X by Y inches, when I know it is X by Y inches, then we're screwed, as my senses are lying to me. Basically, if I can touch it and measure it using a ruler, geting the exact correct amount , which is X by Y, but it really isn't X by Y in truth, then we have.... I'm not quite sure what we have, but lets just settle that it would be problematic, seeing as how nothing that we know could possibly be real. See what I'm saying? All we can do is trust our senses and hope they aren't lying. However, if they are, we will have no way of knowing whatsoever, and since we can't do something about something we don't know exists, we might as well go on with our daily lives. Ignorance is Bliss, I guess.
We invented inch, and we invented blue. Therefor, if it fits our dfeinition of an inch, or our definition of blue, then it is. We can't be wrong about it when we defined it in the first place.Sure, we have defined an inch as a standard base of measurement. But you're missing the point here. How do I know what an inch is? I look at the standard inch, and determine that it is an inch, because I am told so. So, I look at something, I feel something, I use all my sensory perceptions to determine that this thing is precisely 14 inches high. But what if all my senses are wrong? What if all that I observe is contrary to what is really happening? It isn't about the right or wrongness based upon our definition of the inch. You're always going to be right if you're talking about what you observe using our definition of an inch, while using your sensory tools. But lets say your sensory tools are giving you false information Twenty Four hours a day, Seven days a week. The 14 inches I had measured isn't really 14 inches, but my senses lied and told me it was. Hell, my sense may have lied about the object even being there, or me being there, or everything I know.
Even if our senses are telling the truth, How the hell do I know my inch is the same is your inch? How do I know that we do not comprehend completely different proportional worlds? How do I know your version of blue is the same version as my blue? We were both told it was blue, so thats why we call it blue.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Well, I was really presenting both schools of thinking, but yeah. I can drift way off into thought sometimes and completely ignore everyone else, and this is usually the type of stuff I find myself thinking about. My real opinion is just to live life like there are no abstracts, because I don't know any better way.
Sure, a number is a measurement, but it sort of signifies a tangible thing, I think. Saying I have two video games signifies that I have one video game here and another video game there. Going by that logic, all adjectives are subject to abstractness. I would call this website blue, but is it really blue? What if it's actually green? We invented that it was blue. This connects to measurements, as all measurements are is just a complicated way of describing something. I don't think as a sense that Measurements can be abstract if everything isn't abstract. If my moniter isn't X by Y inches, when I know it is X by Y inches, then we're screwed, as my senses are lying to me. Basically, if I can touch it and measure it using a ruler, geting the exact correct amount , which is X by Y, but it really isn't X by Y in truth, then we have.... I'm not quite sure what we have, but lets just settle that it would be problematic, seeing as how nothing that we know could possibly be real. See what I'm saying? All we can do is trust our senses and hope they aren't lying. However, if they are, we will have no way of knowing whatsoever, and since we can't do something about something we don't know exists, we might as well go on with our daily lives. Ignorance is Bliss, I guess.
We invented inch, and we invented blue. Therefor, if it fits our dfeinition of an inch, or our definition of blue, then it is. We can't be wrong about it when we defined it in the first place.Sure, we have defined an inch as a standard base of measurement. But you're missing the point here. How do I know what an inch is? I look at the standard inch, and determine that it is an inch, because I am told so. So, I look at something, I feel something, I use all my sensory perceptions to determine that this thing is precisely 14 inches high. But what if all my senses are wrong? What if all that I observe is contrary to what is really happening? It isn't about the right or wrongness based upon our definition of the inch. You're always going to be right if you're talking about what you observe using our definition of an inch, while using your sensory tools. But lets say your sensory tools are giving you false information Twenty Four hours a day, Seven days a week. The 14 inches I had measured isn't really 14 inches, but my senses lied and told me it was. Hell, my sense may have lied about the object even being there, or me being there, or everything I know.
Even if our senses are telling the truth, How the hell do I know my inch is the same is your inch? How do I know that we do not comprehend completely different proportional worlds? How do I know your version of blue is the same version as my blue? We were both told it was blue, so thats why we call it blue.
If everything around us is false, then it isn't false, for the same reason an inch is only an inch when we say so. Something is only true or false when we classify it as such. Our perception is what determines what's "truth" so, no matter what's "really" there, what we percieve is truth.Maybe our ability to make or "percieve" truth at all is what makes up our abstract self. I may feel or react becasue of chemical or electrostatic impulses but my power to form and contemplate ideas is not explained by this.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Show me the evidence, until then i'll disregard those things as irrational.
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