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No Direct Communication With Devs After Release

gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016

I had no idea that the official forums for Vanguard were closing after the game is released

The "community" for the game is going all third party by way of fansites - BLAH!

Certainly changing my hype lvl and probably give the game a miss

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Comments

  • Interesting.

    I wonder if it has to do with what happened with the SWG forums.

    The reason I say this is because everybody thinks that they have some authority to talk to a dev and whine about something in game. I'm willing to bet they don't want to hear from these people.

    Also, if the game sucks, they don't have to hide all of the "This game sucks" threads like SOE does. If someone looking into a new game visits an official forum which has "this game sucks" or complaints, or "I just got off the phone with a Sigil dev and taught him how to make a great game", that person isn't going to try the game. I know I wouldn't if I saw threads like this.

    This spreads out haters all over the internet which thins out the noise, which in turn, makes it look like there isn't too many people displeased about the game.

    But that is my theory.

    Why don't we talk about the pros and cons from a dev standpoint and a player standpoint? What do we and devs have to gain and lose by not having official forums?

  • MX13MX13 Member Posts: 2,489

    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.

    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    What !? no whining board ?!?!?!?

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433

    You can stick around here, some devs show sporadically around here and will prolly do more if their official forum goes down.  Most of the devs showing around remain "hidden", either because they don't know how to get their title enabled, or because they don't want their presence to affect a discussion.  Even I am affected by the official presence of Brad, as it put my attention away from the debate and the fact I am trying to organise everything around him, possibly even forgetting some important stuff.

     

    Or...you can switch to FoH forums if you can deal with opiniated half-witted moderators that are going to enforced THEIR ways of thinking by deleting any user not sharing their point of view...I was deleted and give up on these nazis a long time ago, I am obviously an evil troll with trolling purpose to them, since raiding is anathema to fun.  To question raiding isn't acceptable to folks like FoH.

     

    Or...you can stick to some other communities, lot of online forums.  EQluclin was cool for EQ IMO, yet it was too limitative and there where not enought users...and the mods where okay but they where there to have a good time, so they can edit anyone about anything just because they think it was funny, however, it was done in a good hearted way.  Yet, these raise question about the quality, the value and if you can take these board seriously.  For example, if you go there, you will prolly notice they actually add gibberish to whatever I say, it is funny, but quite hard to get a point to be understood.

     

    But, honestly, if you value having a place that is good, alive, and where the moderators are professionnals and unafraided to apply rules of conduct, then stick around here.  MMORPG.com is the best forums about ANY mmo anyway.  Yeah, lot of EvEngelists, Vanbois and much more, but you have to expect it when you are at the BEST forum.  Of course, Brad would THINK that you pick a site supporting ebayers and the like (not sure he would openly says it however, as he is aware of the "diversity" this site is offering him that he found extremely scarsily elsewhere) , but honestly, that is a side aspect and a detail to me.  I understand Brad's opinion, I could live with it or without, but I definitely don't share it.  Bright design wouldn't have much issues with ebayers and the like, since if it is FUN, it is worth very little to avoid it on the black market.  Instancing would also remove the bots-issues, leaving the bots to the only consequences of improving the market by flooding it, which is positive to the players anyway (except to a minority who charge MORE and make profits on the other players, but protecting these players from bots is like communism, on a mmo scale).  That's been said, onlines exchanges are rarely debated here, and usually it is started by having Brad himself to talk about it; or another person strongly against it.  And they are always welcome to debate it, even if I suspect that debating it just make them lose it more toward that side.  This site has officially no side, but is supported by such 3rd partieS...and Brad kinda have the "Me or Them" attitude, while in fact, you should think of this site as Switzerland on this issue, it is suicidal for them to be against, they don't support it, yet they accept everything they have to offer.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren


  • Originally posted by MX13
    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.


    Why didn't I think of that? Good call.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433
    Originally posted by MX13
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    Quantities doesn't equate quality.

     

    But yes, Sigil is good at communicating with the onlines communitieS in general, they are just extremely poor at selecting what is worth listening to, and what isn't.  For example, FoH boards are a waste of time, these players always think around the most boring and less fun aspect of the game, there is nothing to gain by going there, only much too lose.  FoH has it own agenda and will do everything to advance it, including trying to shut me completely and telling me that I have a personnal agenda, which is true, but far smaller truth than the fact THEY have an agenda and are quite serious about it.  Avoiding them completely would be advisable; as everything they think, put forth, devices, is in accord with their own agenda.  They actually manage to mess Blizzard beyond repair.    Underestimating their resolves or their damage potential is ill advised; anyone thinking I am resilient about raid-free has just never meet FoH under their real guise; maybe it is impossible for most peoples to understand that however, as I assume only a power gamer might understand another, my "quest for raid-free" or personnal agenda is meek and unrefined compare to what these guys are doing.  They already display a total lack of loyalty at MANY occasions in the past, despite everything done openly to qualm them...personnally, no matter how much I would dislike a game, I would have found a duty toward a team that display such heavy concerns and goes as far as paying my guild airplanes tickets...but morality and FoH are exclusive concepts.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • spookytoothspookytooth Member Posts: 508
    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.
    SOE forums...to be moderated by the dopes at SOE......blarg!
  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433
    Originally posted by spookytooth



    SOE forums...to be moderated by the dopes at SOE......blarg!



    Hu?

    First: We have no idea who will moderate this area of the forums.

    Second: SoE moderators aren't that bad, but yes, Sigil staff would be a LOT better and less marketing-focused.

     

    See, someone who report you would maybe succeed in actually getting your post deleted, the term dopes is "borderline", this is forum etiquette...not FFA forums.  Saying that you don't trust SoE moderators is fine, giving reasons is even better...but depicting them as dopes?  That break the rules of conduct technically.  I don't see it as offensive enough to report you myself, and I don't think getting you deleted would add to the discussion since we would lose your distrust of SoE operating the forums and even if I personnally disagree with you, I think it has some importance.

     

    See, your distrust in SoE is worth something in this discussion, adding the word "dopes" however could have removed your post althogether.  Which wouldn't be a good thing.  (now that I quote you however, deleting your post doesn't remove the important part, while removing the nasty, rule-breakers, so I would see little reasons for a moderator to refrain from deleting it anymore)

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren


  • Originally posted by Anofalye
    Originally posted by spookytooth SOE forums...to be moderated by the dopes at SOE......blarg!

    Hu?
    First: We have no idea who will moderate this area of the forums.
    Second: SoE moderators aren't that bad, but yes, Sigil staff would be a LOT better and less marketing-focused.
     
    See, someone who report you would maybe succeed in actually getting your post deleted, the term dopes is "borderline", this is forum etiquette...not FFA forums.  Saying that you don't trust SoE moderators is fine, giving reasons is even better...but depicting them as dopes?  That break the rules of conduct technically.  I don't see it as offensive enough to report you myself, and I don't think getting you deleted would add to the discussion since we would lose your distrust of SoE operating the forums and even if I personnally disagree with you, I think it has some importance.
     
    See, your distrust in SoE is worth something in this discussion, adding the word "dopes" however could have removed your post althogether.  Which wouldn't be a good thing.  (now that I quote you however, deleting your post doesn't remove the important part, while removing the nasty, rule-breakers, so I would see little reasons for a moderator to refrain from deleting it anymore)


    SOE Access Pass is ran by SOE. So SOE will moderate the forums.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433
    Originally posted by nakedone


     
     
    SOE Access Pass is ran by SOE. So SOE will moderate the forums.




    But, can you tell me, that the staff who currently moderate the Sigil forums is not hire by SoE to moderate it?  Can you tell me which policy they will have to follow?

     

    Brad's make a promise about Vanguard been free from SoE impact on the design level, keeping a control over the forums moderators seem to me like it is a part of this promise.  I wouldn't automatically assume that Brad would give up the forums just like that.  Which individuals and what will be their motus operendi?

     

    You have the names of the moderators perhaps?  I don't myself.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren


  • Originally posted by Anofalye
    Originally posted by nakedone  
     
    SOE Access Pass is ran by SOE. So SOE will moderate the forums.

    But, can you tell me, that the staff who currently moderate the Sigil forums is not hire by SoE to moderate it?  Can you tell me which policy they will have to follow?
     
    Brad's make a promise about Vanguard been free from SoE impact on the design level, keeping a control over the forums moderators seem to me like it is a part of this promise.  I wouldn't automatically assume that Brad would give up the forums just like that.  Which individuals and what will be their motus operendi?
     
    You have the names of the moderators perhaps?  I don't myself.


    Why are you making a big deal about SOE mods on a SOE ran forum? What could go wrong?
    Forum mods have nothing to do with game design. How do I say "in denial" in latin?

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433
    Originally posted by nakedone


     
     
    Why are you making a big deal about SOE mods on a SOE ran forum? What could go wrong?

    Forum mods have nothing to do with game design. How do I say "in denial" in latin?




    With Sigil's been heavily turned toward online communities, any mod have a LOT of power by removing some thread.  See, if SoE would, for any reason, hate pink.  They could automatically delete all messages involving pink, lessenning significantly the chances that Sigil would come in contact with such an idea.  Thereby SoE would get into the design room by enforcing their "opinion" on the forums...which is exactly a promise Brad made, that it wouldn't happen.  The point is not on the technical, but with the spirit of the promise and it intend, can't care less if the employee has a SoE badge or anything else myself, as long as they are not enforcing SoE policy since it has impact on the design room.  Anyway, just a point a view, as I was trying to remove the fears from another user and turned to be fearing for it myself as you drew the debate on it. 

     

    "In denial"?  Hehe, you can check up in the dictionnary if you want, it is not commonly used here, while the other term is.  I only use the latin that get regularly in the speech here, just like some peoples can use "rendez-vous" in english without knowing much of french.  That's been said, despite the fact I am pretty sure Vanguard won't be for me, I still hope it will be a rendez-vous. 

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016
    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    this is not correct

    SOE forums will be for tech support only (according to Vanguard forum)

    image

  • BorneheldBorneheld Member Posts: 17
    This is from Elrar on the Vg general boards just the other day, dont see anything about the SOE forums




    The only official forums that will exist for Vanguard will be designed specifically for tech support. All class/server/general discussion forums and information sites will be hosted by the community. Check our affiliated site list at www.vanguardsoh.com/fansite.php. The list will only continue to grow at this point as players begin to find their niches.





  • MX13MX13 Member Posts: 2,489
    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    this is not correct

    SOE forums will be for tech support only (according to Vanguard forum)


    Sorry, but that's not what the Dev's have posted several times now. If you don't believe me, go ask for yourself.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016
    Originally posted by MX13

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    this is not correct

    SOE forums will be for tech support only (according to Vanguard forum)


    Sorry, but that's not what the Dev's have posted several times now. If you don't believe me, go ask for yourself.

    sorry, but - "the forums hosted by SOE will be for technical support only."

    posted today by Elrar

    name in blue so i assume he knows



    image


  • Originally posted by Anofalye
    Originally posted by nakedone  
     
    Why are you making a big deal about SOE mods on a SOE ran forum? What could go wrong?
    Forum mods have nothing to do with game design. How do I say "in denial" in latin?

    With Sigil's been heavily turned toward online communities, any mod have a LOT of power by removing some thread.  See, if SoE would, for any reason, hate pink.  They could automatically delete all messages involving pink, lessenning significantly the chances that Sigil would come in contact with such an idea.  Thereby SoE would get into the design room by enforcing their "opinion" on the forums...which is exactly a promise Brad made, that it wouldn't happen.  The point is not on the technical, but with the spirit of the promise and it intend, can't care less if the employee has a SoE badge or anything else myself, as long as they are not enforcing SoE policy since it has impact on the design room.  Anyway, just a point a view, as I was trying to remove the fears from another user and turned to be fearing for it myself as you drew the debate on it. 
     
    "In denial"?  Hehe, you can check up in the dictionnary if you want, it is not commonly used here, while the other term is.  I only use the latin that get regularly in the speech here, just like some peoples can use "rendez-vous" in english without knowing much of french.  That's been said, despite the fact I am pretty sure Vanguard won't be for me, I still hope it will be a rendez-vous. 


    Well, to make things safe. I'll stay clear of this game and it's relationship with SOE. It will just sellout anyways and die shortly after that happens.

  • MX13MX13 Member Posts: 2,489
    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    this is not correct

    SOE forums will be for tech support only (according to Vanguard forum)


    Sorry, but that's not what the Dev's have posted several times now. If you don't believe me, go ask for yourself.

    sorry, but - "the forums hosted by SOE will be for technical support only."

    posted today by Elrar

    name in blue so i assume he knows



    Sure enough, Glip just cleared it up. There was some confussion, but it seems you're correct. Tech Support Forums & Fansite Forums, probably SV & TTN...

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • BorneheldBorneheld Member Posts: 17
    Originally posted by Tudana


    This is from Elrar on the Vg general boards just the other day, dont see anything about the SOE forums


    The only official forums that will exist for Vanguard will be designed specifically for tech support. All class/server/general discussion forums and information sites will be hosted by the community. Check our affiliated site list at www.vanguardsoh.com/fansite.php. The list will only continue to grow at this point as players begin to find their niches.


    The whole thread on it http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97339



    I am correcting myself before someone tears me a new one...

    The tech forums will be hosted by SOE


     01-01-07, 09:40 AM

    There will continue to be an official site that will be used for a variety of different purposes, as well as host tools to help folks find fansites that contain information they're looking for, the forums hosted by SOE will be for technical support only.



    The reason for not having a central forum is that we feel it is not constructive for a majority of the community. It is not conducive to creating constructive feedback and digestible information for us, the developers. Fan sites create communities that are supportive of each other rather than the self destructive behaviors that are seen in more centralized communities.



    We do realize that there are trade-offs, however, we feel it is more beneficial to the community to do it this way. We now have had the ability to see and analyze both types of community, after almost a decade of experience and interaction with multiple MMO communities we feel this is the best.



    It's going to take some getting used to but it will provide us with the means of communicating with our playerbase on an entirely different level, while reducing the effects squeaky wheel syndrome can have on centralized communities.

    __________________

    James "Elrar" Nichols

    Half Giant Moderator

    Protector of Gnomes


  • Originally posted by Vendayn
    Originally posted by nakedone  

    Originally posted by Anofalye

    Originally posted by nakedone
     
     
    Why are you making a big deal about SOE mods on a SOE ran forum? What could go wrong?
    Forum mods have nothing to do with game design. How do I say "in denial" in latin?
     
    With Sigil's been heavily turned toward online communities, any mod have a LOT of power by removing some thread.  See, if SoE would, for any reason, hate pink.  They could automatically delete all messages involving pink, lessenning significantly the chances that Sigil would come in contact with such an idea.  Thereby SoE would get into the design room by enforcing their "opinion" on the forums...which is exactly a promise Brad made, that it wouldn't happen.  The point is not on the technical, but with the spirit of the promise and it intend, can't care less if the employee has a SoE badge or anything else myself, as long as they are not enforcing SoE policy since it has impact on the design room.  Anyway, just a point a view, as I was trying to remove the fears from another user and turned to be fearing for it myself as you drew the debate on it. 
     
    "In denial"?  Hehe, you can check up in the dictionnary if you want, it is not commonly used here, while the other term is.  I only use the latin that get regularly in the speech here, just like some peoples can use "rendez-vous" in english without knowing much of french.  That's been said, despite the fact I am pretty sure Vanguard won't be for me, I still hope it will be a rendez-vous. 



    Well, to make things safe. I'll stay clear of this game and it's relationship with SOE. It will just sellout anyways and die shortly after that happens.


    cool, your pshycic...can you see my future too? I want to know if I live a successful life, or not a very good one. Thanks :)

    It's call a mathmatical probibility based on track record of this dev selling out to SOE before and the aftermath.

    But to answer your question. You will still be a nobody.

  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016
    Originally posted by MX13

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by MX13


    This is not correct. They are shutting down the Sigil Forums and starting the SOE forums. Sigil Dev's will still be chatting up the SOE Forums, I'm sure.
    This is the Best Communication by a group of Dev's I've ever seen.



    this is not correct

    SOE forums will be for tech support only (according to Vanguard forum)


    Sorry, but that's not what the Dev's have posted several times now. If you don't believe me, go ask for yourself.

    sorry, but - "the forums hosted by SOE will be for technical support only."

    posted today by Elrar

    name in blue so i assume he knows



    Sure enough, Glip just cleared it up. There was some confussion, but it seems you're correct. Tech Support Forums & Fansite Forums, probably SV & TTN...



    wasn't concerned with being correct but i am quite disappointed about how communications - or lack thereof - are going to be handled

    image

  • KalmenicusKalmenicus Member Posts: 48

    Anofalye... get over yourself.  It's plain that MMORPG.com forums won't be of any use to Sigil/SOE Devs after release, and that the closure of Sigil's forums except for Technical Help coincides with opening of SoE forums, in keeping with SoE's entirely acceptable history of providing a good communication medium.

    There's always going to be whiners thinking they got to have direct communication with the Dev because they got the most serious problem, and it's most important for everyone if this one person's problem gets the spotlight, which is total BS anyway.

    My experience with EQ, and EQ2, over nearly 7 years, leads me to believe the SoE forums for Vanguard will be the best avenue for most players who "need" to communicate with Devs, and the Devs, and other qualified persons, will handle questions and problems as fairly as possible, considering the ratio of players to Devs.

    Now we get to read all manner of posts about how so-and-so's problem was never addressed, and such-and-such Dev moved their "perfectly reasonable and correct" rant to some basement thread that no one else would ever find.  And how great this sites forums, or that sites forums, are because Dev-Almight-Gawd personally spoke to them and posted on their personal thread.  Pssh... suuure... okey-dokey.

    Play.  Just shut up and Play.

     

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378
    Originally posted by Kalmenicus


    Anofalye... get over yourself.  It's plain that MMORPG.com forums won't be of any use to Sigil/SOE Devs after release, and that the closure of Sigil's forums except for Technical Help coincides with opening of SoE forums, in keeping with SoE's entirely acceptable history of providing a good communication medium.
    There's always going to be whiners thinking they got to have direct communication with the Dev because they got the most serious problem, and it's most important for everyone if this one person's problem gets the spotlight, which is total BS anyway.
    My experience with EQ, and EQ2, over nearly 7 years, leads me to believe the SoE forums for Vanguard will be the best avenue for most players who "need" to communicate with Devs, and the Devs, and other qualified persons, will handle questions and problems as fairly as possible, considering the ratio of players to Devs.
    Now we get to read all manner of posts about how so-and-so's problem was never addressed, and such-and-such Dev moved their "perfectly reasonable and correct" rant to some basement thread that no one else would ever find.  And how great this sites forums, or that sites forums, are because Dev-Almight-Gawd personally spoke to them and posted on their personal thread.  Pssh... suuure... okey-dokey.
    Play.  Just shut up and Play.
     



    Amen, A-freaking-men.

    Some people just like to whine. This is the forum for them. It's just a damn shame some parents didn't have the time to be a positive influence in some childrens lives.

    The sky is not falling, and Vanguard is going to rock. I can't wait for release!

    image
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