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Experiments that claim to ‘cure’ homosexual rams spark anger

reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173
*** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



I've always contended that it was a pre-natal factor that determined a persons sexuality.  And now this group of scientists have found that they can change the sexuality of the 1 in 10 sheep that are born "gay".  All it takes is a skin patch that the mother wears while it is pregnant.  And they think they can eventually port this over to human use because they have seen these same changes in humans mothers who have homosexual children.



So, what is it going to be?  I have a feeling you're going to see some people hopping over the fence on this issue.  What I mean is this, you've got a group of religious people who are against anything altering the birth process because they feel you are tampering or "playing God".  Then you've got scientists who want to whatever they can to change things.  I see both sides hopping the fence on this issue.  I see some scientists saying that it will be wrong to change something like this, while I also see some religious people saying they would allow this pre-natal manipulation of the fetus. 



Crazy how the world is on the gay issue, isn't it?



Some things I found interesting:

1.  The whole 1:10 sheep.  Isn't that the ratio of human homosexuals to heterosexuals that is so hotly debated?

2.  I have a friend who trains and breeds horses.  He tells me that there are gay horses.  There are some horses that refuse to mate with the opposite sex, yet mount the same sex every time.

3.  This screams of the possibility of  abuse.  As much as I have thought it would help the homosexual community to have a distinct biological purpose to their homosexuality, I have also feared such a day to come.  I think the repercussions would be worse for them a hundred fold.  There is just too much homophobia in this society to turn information like this into something to bring us together.  It's definitely something to be distorted by the fear that religion has caused towards homosexual people and would drive us even further apart.  Would a person who is religious say that if you didn't do this for your child then you are guilty of child abuse?
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Comments

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.
  • modjoe86modjoe86 Member UncommonPosts: 4,083

    This isn't the best news for people who argue that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. On the other hand, these same people who generally argue that homosexuality is a sin won't hesitate to "play God" and try to forcefully end homosexuality.  Or I could be wrong and this double standard may never happen.

    Interesting find.

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  • reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173
    Originally posted by modjoe86


    This isn't the best news for people who argue that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. On the other hand, these same people who generally argue that homosexuality is a sin won't hesitate to "play God" and try to forcefully end homosexuality.  Or I could be wrong and this double standard may never happen.
    Interesting find.
    Exactly.  It's just what I thought would happen if something like this was ever discovered.



    Religious people use the "Playing God" card all the time to squelch research.  But I would bet anything they would be standing in line to "fix" their unborn kid on this one.



    As far as the lifestyle choice issue goes.  I don't see how anyone who has a logic center in their brain could ever come to that conclusion.  Sorry if that sounds harsh to some people, but it's just the way I feel.  To say someone would choose to be gay is completely illogical.
  • reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children. So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.
  • BlazinBladesBlazinBlades Member Posts: 1,214
     

    How can Homosexuals make the decision to be Heterosexual and live a successful life as a Heterosexual if they are born gay??? Bring it on down now.

    Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.

  • Rreka'alRreka'al Member Posts: 450
    Originally posted by reavo

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.

    You can already choose the gender of your child. It's a $20,000 thing, but people are doing it. Eye color, too.

    image

  • LackeyZeroLackeyZero Member Posts: 640
    Originally posted by reavo

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.I would have disagreed with Gameloading's statement alone, because I don't really believe homosexuality would affect someone that much. However, since you brought these other elements into play, I'd say I would... If everyone was able to do this, then someone simply can NOT compete with a genetically "perfect" human...
  • reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173
    Originally posted by LordDarkmist

    Originally posted by reavo

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.I would have disagreed with Gameloading's statement alone, because I don't really believe homosexuality would affect someone that much. However, since you brought these other elements into play, I'd say I would... If everyone was able to do this, then someone simply can NOT compete with a genetically "perfect" human...

    The reason I brought those up was to make a point.  Where do we draw the line?  Do we stop when everyone is capable of having a "genetically perfect" child without any genetic variation at all? 



    Is the only thing possible to make us all finally accept one another the day that we all look, act, and think just alike?  What are we, the genesis of Borg?
  • LackeyZeroLackeyZero Member Posts: 640
    I truly don't know what to say... There's 2 sides to this, "variation" and "quality of life"... The ones that don't matter to me is homosexuality, color, sex, etc... However, when we're talking about the really important/impactful quality of life here, someone, who can not do simple mathematics will have no chance in life in the corporate world compared to a genius, who can learn at an astounding rate, especially when other people become capable of changing such genetics.  Lets be real here, I've met alot of "dumb" people, and I seriously can't see how they can live very decently at all, considering how incapable they are at anything...( I do believe in hard work and getting your act together to do something right... but if someone or the majority can learn/read/do activities faster, then the "hard workers" will be considered "dumb" and useless)
  • SassymolassySassymolassy Member Posts: 363

    Wow, fun topic!  So much to say on this, let me see if I can organize my thoughts.

    First; on the issue of "science vs religion."  I am religious and I embrace science in almost everyway.  I believe God ispires men with ideas that advance our human race.  Of course I do see exceptions to this.

    Second, on the issue of "would parents choose to give their children advantages if they could".  I would do anything to give my children a greater advantage in life.  But I think that "greater advantage" is partly in the eye of the beholder.  Some parents may choose to have a gay child while religious people would choose against it.

    third, "life is mostly what what you choose to do with it."  People can be given an attractive physique, and intelligence and still make stupid and destructive choices.  I also believe that some gay/ lesbian people are not born inclinded this way but follow this path through conditioning and other life events. 

    Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)

  • FinweFinwe Member CommonPosts: 3,106
    Originally posted by reavo

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.



    Being taller does not give you a better advantage in life.

    Neither would making them male.

    To many, homosexuality is a disability, a defect, if you will. Say for example...Epilepsy.

    So you're argueing a debate where you're saying that heterosexuality is an advantage, rather than homosexuality being a disadvantage.

    And yes, there is a difference. Just as there is a difference between the glass being half-full, or half-empty. You're seeing homosexuality as half-full, whereas others may see it as half-empty.

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  • modjoe86modjoe86 Member UncommonPosts: 4,083
    Originally posted by Finwe

    Originally posted by reavo

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by reavo

    *** Please, if you want to comment on this issue, read the article first.  I've noticed a lot of people don't read the articles and just jump into a conversation, when they would be able to contribute more by just reading the danged article. ***



    Science Told:  Hands off Gay Sheep <--CLICK



    This ought to stir up some debate.  Both on these boards and in the rest of the world.  If you could determine your child's sexuality before they were born, would you? 



    Yes, I would. if I could make my child straigth before birth, then I would. Being straigth just has more advantages, the main one is the ability to have children.So what if they found a way to make your child taller?  Or to make them more athletic?  Or to make them more intelligent?  Or to make them a harder more dedicated worker?  Or to make them a male over a female?



    All of those choices would give them a greater advantage in life.



    Being taller does not give you a better advantage in life.

    Neither would making them male.

    To many, homosexuality is a disability, a defect, if you will. Say for example...Epilepsy.

    So you're argueing a debate where you're saying that heterosexuality is an advantage, rather than homosexuality being a disadvantage.

    And yes, there is a difference. Just as there is a difference between the glass being half-full, or half-empty. You're seeing homosexuality as half-full, whereas others may see it as half-empty.

    Actually, taller males get paid more than shorter males, and men get paid more than women. I would consider that an advantage.

    There is also a key difference between epilepsy and homosexuality: one is a scientific problem, while the other is a societal problem. Only one of those is inherently harmful to the person afflicted.

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  • InflictionInfliction Member Posts: 1,115
    I'm no believer of a god, but a rise in homosexual behaviour, mental disablities kids are born with (no, I'm not saying these are linked), and other things that have been on the rise lately... What if they were God's way of controlling the population? As a rule, gay people generally do not have children, and very rarely do people with mental illnesses. Just a thought .

    image

  • desnowdesnow Member Posts: 390

    No matter if the hormone theory is accurate when applied to humans or not doesn't matter to me. A homosexual ram is of less value to the farmer the article said endorsing not having them. Same line has been used to murder female children in some cultures.

    If you value your child more or less because of their gender or orientation then you probably shouldn't be having children. As much as I will comment on so that I will stay civil, but the uses for this sort of information irk me greatly.

  • ValiumSummerValiumSummer Member Posts: 1,008

    I didn't decide to be straight ... I am.     Put a naked man in front of me...limp penor.   Put a naked woman in front of me... stiff penor.  I don't make that decision.    I don't tell my heart to beat.

    This whole argument that gay people "choose" to be gay is ridiculous.   

    I think the people who accuse gays of choosing to be gay might feel that way becuase they have "chosen" to act straight in thier own lives maybe? 

  • XeximaXexima Member UncommonPosts: 2,697

    I'm trying to decide whether or not I have qualms with this...

    on the other hand, to those who believe homosexuality is a choice:

    Nah Nah nah Nah nah Nah...  Doesn't that make the shuning, beating, and killing of homosexuals through out history..immoral, to say the least.. and doesn't that also bring question upon the bible?

  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267

    interesting read, to say the least.  however, as a religious person, im pretty leary about "playing God", since i already know one that doesnt like to share the role.  when you say that youd give your children every advantage, im pretty sure that means, advantages that you, yourself, personally, can give.  not doctors, not messing with DNA, hormones, and the like.  its dangerous to say the very least.  and like Reavo pointed out, where do you draw the line?  speaking as a Christian, im going to love and accept me kids no matter what.....yeah, thats it, NO MATTER WHAT!  gay or straight, axe murderer or christian (or both, eeek), male or female, tall or short.  none of that makes any difference when it comes to flesh and blood.

    and as a side note, one of your own gay people on this very forum stated without a doubt, that she was NOT born gay.  so clearly, not all gay people are gay at birth.  regardless of research.

    ______________________________
    image

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586
    Originally posted by ValiumSummer


    I didn't decide to be straight ... I am.     Put a naked man in front of me...limp penor.   Put a naked woman in front of me... stiff penor.  I don't make that decision.    I don't tell my heart to beat.
    This whole argument that gay people "choose" to be gay is ridiculous.   
    I think the people who accuse gays of choosing to be gay might feel that way becuase they have "chosen" to act straight in thier own lives maybe? 
    How do you explain women who are LUG(lesbian until graduation) or Anne Heche? She decided to be gay with Ellen for a few years, now she is straight, married, and has children.



    How do you explain straight people who are sick of the opposite sex and decide to start dating the same sex? Or converts who decide to be bisexual for a while before a full transition to homosexuality?

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • AwakenedAwakened Member UncommonPosts: 595

    I'm too drunk to really read the article and make sense of it, but there's still a lot of questions to be answered that this thing doesn't even touch.  Is it more ammo for a debate?  Sure, but not much else.

    What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?

  • ValiumSummerValiumSummer Member Posts: 1,008
    Originally posted by Briansho

    Originally posted by ValiumSummer


    I didn't decide to be straight ... I am.     Put a naked man in front of me...limp penor.   Put a naked woman in front of me... stiff penor.  I don't make that decision.    I don't tell my heart to beat.
    This whole argument that gay people "choose" to be gay is ridiculous.   
    I think the people who accuse gays of choosing to be gay might feel that way becuase they have "chosen" to act straight in thier own lives maybe? 
    How do you explain women who are LUG(lesbian until graduation) or Anne Heche? She decided to be gay with Ellen for a few years, now she is straight, married, and has children.



    How do you explain straight people who are sick of the opposite sex and decide to start dating the same sex? Or converts who decide to be bisexual for a while before a full transition to homosexuality?

    Could you now,  just conclude that you are attracted to men?   Its not a question of waking up one day and "decideing" you are.    Same goes for women.     If you ever have a conversation with a gay or bi-sexual person.   Ask them.       "Deciding" to be gay or bisexual  often comes after years of denying real feelings.      You make a good point about "college" lesbians.   I've known a couple girls in my time that have  "dabbled" in bisexuality simply because it seemed "hip" or they thought it might "turn on thier man" but most of those types will back down when things get down and dirty.     I wouldn't call a girl or man that has sex with the opposite sex out of peer pressure a "real homosexual".  



     Hypothetically..Lets say you woke up tomorrow and discovered you were in some sort of alternative reality, where Society FROWNED on heterosexually, and accepted homosexuality.   BUT... you were still the red blooded heterosexual male you are now.   Lets take this hypothetical a step further...and say that you could be imprisoned for having sex with women (as a man) but homosexuality was legal.     Would you:



    A)   Submit to the rule of the land and start having sex with men?

    B)   Seek out Females willing to "break the law" with you?





    Just imagine the feelings you have (as a man)  for an attractive woman, and realise that a gay man or woman share those same feelings, but for the same sex.   How hard is that?   Is it a decision you make to be attracted to Shakira when she shakes her ass?

    Do you get the same feelings when Ricky martin dances?   Could you for say... 1 million dollars "decide" that ricky martin shaking his ass gave you a boner?  



    If you could summon up a stiffy for ricky martin for any amount of cash or for any reason... then you didn't decide to become homosexual or bi-sexual ...you just are.
  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    Advantages of Being Gay

    1. It is easy to get sex.
    2. You get to mix with all socio-econonmic levels and ethnicities.
    3. You get to make up the rules in your relationship. There are no stereotype male-female roles.
    4. Generally a freer sexuality. Being gay is such a taboo that, say, having your nipples licked does not seem terribly wicked.
    5. Without the responsibilities of wife and family, you are free to invent your life with adventure, dedication to a cause, creativity, whatever you want.

    Disadvantages of Being Gay

    1. AIDS.
    2. Even well meaning people will patronise you. They will never take your relationship as seriously as a mixed-sex one, no matter how long lasting. They tend to treat you like a little boy who will someday grow up and become straight. They will try to tell you they know more about what it like being gay than you do.
    3. Bigots believe they have a moral duty to hound you, threaten you, kick you out of your apartment, get you fired from your job, beat you up, accuse you of pedophilia or even kill you.
    4. It is easy to get sex, but hard to find a life partner, the opposite problem straight males have.
    5. The secretiveness and anonymity of closeted life lead to one-time only sex. This leads to promiscuity. People don't want to let you get to know them. This is all pretty shallow.
    6. Youth worship and consequently lonely older males.
    Guess you would have to way the facts

    image

  • ValiumSummerValiumSummer Member Posts: 1,008
    Originally posted by nakedone


    Why? OH why? Do I have to hear about gays every damn day? All over t.v. and now video game forums?
    Wasn't there a huge thread about how we are tired of hearing about this? Why must the same 1 or 2 people constantly post gay crap on this forum?
    What do you want? Really. Attention? Don't you get enough already? Do you want me to say "awww" and offer a hug? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF POSTING HOMO CRAP HERE? I do not care about 1% of the world populations' problems. And you know what? You can bet your KY-Jelly most of the 500k members don't either. Yeah, they all don't say anything in fear of getting "labeled", but I'll say something.
    This needs to end.
    IF we were interested in flamer awareness, we would be in the G.L.A.D. forums trying to hold down our lunch.

     

    The description of this forum reads exactly like this:

    Use this forum to discuss anything you want to talk about - even stuff not related to MMORPGs. This forum is loosely moderated and may contain topics offensive to some people. Enter at your own risk.

    This is an off topic forum... meaning... OFF TOPIC.    If video games discussions are all you want I suggest you stay out of the OFF TOPIC forum. 

    Just a suggestion.

  • LackeyZeroLackeyZero Member Posts: 640

    If someone still doesn't understand how there can be gays...go study biology, the biological system isn't static, it fluctuates and changes through time...

  • SassymolassySassymolassy Member Posts: 363
    First of all, I am not a lesbian.  But I will be honest and say that I think people can be conditioned to enjoy gay sex. 

    Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    I think this is probably the dumbest thing to come out of 2006.

    The gay people in the article, who lead a life that generally precludes childbirth, are now trying to tell straight people what they can and can't do during childbirth?

    How ludicrous can you get?

    Secondly, children are already screened and treated for any number of effects while they are still in the womb. We are already past the point where we change our habits when pregnant. Pregnant women often take vitamin supplements or eat certain things (and avoid others) to try and make their baby healthier.  Some women even undergo surgeries to correct problems with their unborn child. 

    Would I get my unborn child checked and screened for birth defects? Absolutely. Would I buy vitamins so that my child could get all the nutrients it needs to be strong and healthy, even within the womb? Absolutely. Would I get my wife to wear a patch so my child is less likely to be gay? Absolutely.

    It's all the same thing. It's about me wanting my child to grow up as strong and healthy and as well-adjusted as possible. I want my child to have a life as great as mine, or better if possible, as I'm sure all parents do.

    In the end, science is going to research it anyways, and it's not your damn place to tell me what I can and can't do in the best interests of my child.

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

This discussion has been closed.