The removal of the old frontiers - the fall of DAOC?

Saeravok

Been playing DAOC on and off since release. For ME it's the most complete MMORPG out there. However the game took an ugly turn somewhere along the road. Less and less people play the game, of course due to new releases as well. In my opinion the game went downhill after they removed the old frontiers. I didn't like the new frontiers at all. I know alot of people feel the same way. I know it's a bit late now, or maybe not, but I would loved to see a server with just Shrouded Isle and the old frontiers, old realm abilities, everything just as it was before they released TOA. I wish they would have made such server instead of what now are the classis servers. Maybe I'm just nostagic, living in the past etc, but for ME DAOC was such great experience back then. Heck I'd even settle with a server containing TOA and whatnot, just give me old frontiers back

Saeravok

I started out on Palomides, which became one of the least populated servers. In my case the mergers of servers came way too late. Mythic didn't take action soon enough to counter the population imbalances and Albion had twice the numbers as Hibernia. I do agree that the server marges were handled in a poor manner, but the merger itself were very much needed to keep the game floating.



I've played WoW and I only stuck to it in lack of alternatives and the friends I made in the game. WoW itself didn't bring anything to the table that DAOC didn't in the field of PvP / RvR. I've been searching for a new MMORPG for quite some time now, but nothing seems appealing to me. The DAOC concept with 3 PvE worlds and one RvR world is just perfect IMO. I'm quite supriced no other game has tried to embrace that concept as it has been proved to work very well.



Mythic are now making Warhammer online, which looks VERY simular to WoW graphics. I just don't like those cartoonish graphics, I loved the DAOC graphics (the old ones). Vanguard seems to have simular (but enhanced) graphics as DAOC. Vanguard looks as a decent game, but hard to say when you havn't tried it out as looks only make up a very small part of a game.



Too many of the MMORPGS being developed are focused on PvE only it seems. If they have PvP it's either a duel system, a BG system or a free for all PVP server system. I guess putting focus on PvE is the safe way to build a MMORPG.  It seems most games try to devide the PvE and PvP to different servers, while I like both and like to see them as two neccesary parts of a good MMORPG.



I guess there isn't anything quite like DAOC out there waiting for me to discover it. It feels like if I go back to DAOC I will only get disappointed once again that it isn't the game it was when I enjoyed my best gaming days in it.

jeeperz

I don't miss Old Frontiers - and if I do get nostalgic - the BG Cathal Valley is similar.

As for the clusters...  /sigh

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Only solutions:

1) Allow players to transfer their characters from conflicting clusters to a non conflcting cluster. Which means, if you want to play Albion on this cluster and want to keep your Midgard or Hibernian characters, allow them to transfer them to different clusters.

2) Give characters the option to choose which realm they want to continue playing on each cluster and then lock the other realms from their access.

While option 1 is a lot of work on Mythics part, players will atleast be able to keep all their characters. Option 2 is a lot less work for Mythic but you'll probably end up pissing off a lot of your customers.

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It hasn't been very long since they took off the timers . 

Having timers before you could log into a different realm didn't make that much difference  cuz  most the X realmers were doing so with several accounts anyway, either by duel logging or 2 computers.  They have been  "jumping ship" all along - it  just seems to be ok now.

Many of those that are playing  like that, don't  want their characters moved anyway -- they are doing it purposely, having one foot in each world (realm) as it were...

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A different server that  contains Old Frontiers?  An interesting thought - but how many would  REALLY come back just for that?  Hard to say. 

 

 

 

 

Warrth

Hello  and Greetings all' I play DAOC after release for many yrs and to date no other game has the PVP type of Castle , tower and Relic. I figure Mystic/EA is just staying afloat for the Warhammer release. But, yes  a TRUE classic server would of been great but, a little late at this point .

JulianDracos

When people "miss" something from a game I tend to believe they miss that period in their gaming life and not the game.  You could have OF back and you would not be happy.  Of course, OF was a lot better for Mids/Albs.  People tend to forget having to wait for ports, mile gate camping that could keep people traped inside, or if you were Hib, the long dangerous journey out to Emain.  Constantly having to avoid agro, the scout groups, and the fact that it took forever to get out there.  Then there were huge zergs with Hib trying to keep both Mile gates guarded while trying to retake a keep because we never had DF beacuse of all the fighting in our backyard.  The only way to take a keep was to bash down the door. 



I do not like NF either.  I think it is poorly designed.  I think they listened to idiots when coming up with it.  For them, the thought of "strategy" means keeping people from getting out into the front.  Essentially they took Hibs issue with OF and gave it to everyone.  Choke points everywhere, long walks if the TP are down, and the fact that by the time you make it to a battle it is usually over. 



I think the time is right for a NNF.  One that is smaller to reflect the current population and the fact that NF was too big.  One that is designed to bring people to one central fighting area but with equal access to one keep per realm so as not to favor one realm over another.  One that will allow people to quickly get to a battle without having to worry about roaming groups or stealthers.



Last, people did not leave because of NF or ToA (subscription numbers went up after ToA release to its highest point).  The problem is the decreased amount of time for the current players and no real influx of new players.  What ToA did was start causing a lot of bad word of mouth about the game.  It caused people to want to play less.  Then people simply played less because they had grown older and had other things to do.  It was no longer a "new" game in its 1st to 2nd year that you were just glued to for 10 hours a day. 



The #1 downfall of DAOC was not adapting to the times quick enough and not going after new players seriously.  They had no free trial.  When they did put out a free trial it did not include updated graphics.  It did not and does not now contain all of the expanasions.  They advertised less.  They never advertised in places other than gaming areas.  It was like they were in a holding pattern until WoW came out and then they rushed into repair mode of a leaky ship.  They focused too much on the subscription numbers and not how many of them were actually playing.  They should have done more to bring in new blood a lot sooner.  You need those in every game because people play less as they age and people leave because they have grown tired of the game.  It is not that there is necessarily anoything wrong with it, they just do not want to play that game, or likely any mmo, any longer. 



Many of the changes made in the past 1-2 years should have been made over 3 years ago.  That would have helped to keep a lot of DAOC audience.  But then again, with WoW out there was not a lot they could have done to prevent that.  Many people just go to new games because they are new, some just follow what is popular.  There were enough of those in almost every mmorpg out to cause 25-33% of people from every major mmorpg to go to WoW.  The problem with DAOC is that it is now down about 50%.  Mythic has been reluctant to make the necessary changes to stablize the population.  Clustering all of the PvE zones outside of ToA would help.  Put out patches sooner would help.  Get EA to advertise on TV like they do for The Sims would help.  At least they have continued to support the game and make some good changes. 

Warrth

Woooo. It's been awhile sent i thougt about DAOC Frontiers. Old Mile gate scouting Emain/Odin's Gate. I really hated Penny MT. LOL.. Assassins one shotting and stay stealth. Zergs Zergs .  SI/TOA/Cato. etc. Good crafting system. Housing . Mounts after WoW came out go figure on that one.  Everyone got there reason's for game's going down. It happens to them all sooner or later. But, it was fun for me while it lasted.

Saeravok

JulianDracos>



I think you're pretty much right in everything you say. No matter what servers or what expansions they release I will never get my glory gaming days back . It's the people and the time I miss more than the game itself. But it was the game in that state that appealed to us. Times change and it's time to move on and not look back I guess. 

brostyn

I do miss Emain on occasion, but I sure don't miss the 15 minute teleportation wait. NF is just too large. There should be like 3 keeps max. Get  rid of the Labyrinthe as it has nothing to do with RvR.



This game used to be great before ToA when people used to group. Now its nothing but solo in PvE, and 8 mans out in the frontier/lab. Lame.

Kyleran

While people tend to remember the past fondly, I remember the old days before NF..and I remember lots of people being quite dissatisfied with them.  Since players were clammering for change, they added all the new towers around the keeps, and threw in elements of naval travel and what not.  I think they went a bit overboard in travel times..(though who can forget long runs behind a minstrel/bard/skald in the old frontiers)

But when TOA came out it sort of ruined the game for me...and I moved over to Mordred.  When NF came out... it had little impact on Dred... people still fought most of their battles in the classic lands or SI....only venturing to frontiers to hang on to their guild's keep (which few would challenge for)  I truely spent no time in NF other than near my guilds keep in Midguard..so now that I'm back its all new to me.

Lasraik

Camping Emain for hours on end was not fun.  NF > OF

TOA was what put a big dent in DAOC, not NF

Nierro

Ugh, I remember the PvE before Catacombs made everything instanced. Hah, I restarted my account the before the expansion went live without knowing it and I was like "Wtf, where is everyone???"



I also remember the day SI came out, and ToA. I actually liked ToA encounters they just needed to balance things more..



This game can be fixed so easily, it makes me hurt.

Thorhall

ToA was the downfall of DAoC, NF sealed it's fate. I just think that Mythic took too long to finally listen to their customers, and by then, most had already left. To me NF was way too big, and I can't stand the siege warfare.

Kyleran

Originally posted by Thorhall


ToA was the downfall of DAoC, NF sealed it's fate. I just think that Mythic took too long to finally listen to their customers, and by then, most had already left. To me NF was way too big, and I can't stand the siege warfare.

I thnk you're right.....Pve players really want a large, expansive world so they have lots to see and do...while people looking for a good pvp fight want to find their opponents quickly.. hence one reason (but not the only one) for the BG's current popularity with some players. 



Running all around a vast wastelaand hoping to find someone to kill just isnt entertainment......  If you're out in a zone more than 5 minutes and can't find some action.... it's been too long....

JulianDracos

There are lots of reasons that the BG's are popular.  I am sure now a large draw is the fast action now, but you need to understand that NF used to have a lot more people in it. 



OF lovers are either those who do not remember the game and are nostalgic, or people who loved to roam in groups/zerg and play tanks.  NF refocused the game on siege.  The problem is that siege rewards just are not there.  Add into that the only "strategy" is cutting off ports and preventing people from getting to the battle.   This agrivates those casual players and those wanting to do siege.  Those who use choke points are your groups that used to roam around emain.  They get upset because there are not enough people to piss off on the way to the real battle. 



When  you make a change (or do not) you are going to piss someone off.  Those that complain about NF are just the ones that got pissed off about the change.  Most Hibs were pissed off for years waiting for the change because eveyone was always in Emain.  No easy wait for port, but instead waiting for rez, then avoiding argo, wandering mobs, assassins, archers, etc. and a very long walk about to Emain. 



NF did not to drive players away, but currently it is too big and makes finding action too slow. 

Keridwan

alas the magical three realm concept will not be repeated in Warhammer and I wonder if this will impact significantly on the success of Warhammer

Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO

Kyleran

Originally posted by Keridwan



alas the magical three realm concept will not be repeated in Warhammer and I wonder if this will impact significantly on the success of Warhammer

Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO

Yeah, this made me a sad panda when I found out...but the more important thing is to somehow balance the two realms. DAOC always had a hard time, with Mids usually getting the short end.  WoW never figured it out either..so the horde always is underpopulated compared to alliance, (which many of them like, btw).