I could have continued playin eve (i still want to but the Revelations update never updates itself on my PC so therefore i cant F'in log in) but i'm not the kind of person who could wait for 15 minutes going to 30 to jump from one star to another if there was away to make it shorter(jump clones; i know but they are a stress to get u still have to bloody jump) that's one reason i got lazy on the game, its easy to play once all you do is look for bounties and kill people with bounties on their heads but then you get tired and go mining and then you get tired and go missioning and then you get tired and the cycle starts all over again. The is ******* tiring, i dont hate but i just dont love it either and therefore ends my mini-rant. Thank you for reading
Originally posted by Jhughesy 6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc.
This is a really good summary of why you shouldn't take the fanboys very seriously. "Explorer" simply isn't a career path in EVE, none of the fans are going to be able to tell you how to actually afford to replace ships lost from pirates while exploring, or what exactly you're supposed to explore. "Miner" you get to experience the entire career choice during the tutorial, you focus a laser on a rock and wait. "Hauler" means you fly a non-combat ship, click quickly on bookmarks, and hope you don't get caught. "Research" means you grind the same dozen or so missions for a particular agent. I could go on, but you get the idea.
8. A more mature community.
The EVE community is grossly immature, just not in the sort of way people complain about in WOW. The bulk of the 'community' is people in big alliances demanding that others bow and scrape to them, not exactly endearing to mature adults. Read the EVE board here or the official boards, the EVE players regard the idea that if someone ever mouths off to you you can virtually beat them up and take their stuff as a major feature.
11. Losing has a consequence. True risk/reward.
EVE has no real risk/reward mechanics at all that I'm aware of. For example, it's much more dangerous to mine in one of the chokepoint systems between 0.0 and secure space than to mine in alliance controlled territory, but mining in alliance territory provides far more rewards. It's far more risky for a pirate to attack a combat ship than a hauler, but the reward of hitting a hauler is generally much better than that of hitting a combat ship. The vaunted risk/reward doesn't really seem to be there when you actually look.
Originally posted by Sidrat Single Shard server, zero amount of grinding (unless you really like doing the same thing for more than a couple of hours at a time).
This is just an absurd claim, EVE has a HUGE amount of grinding. PVP combat doesn't generate resources for new ships, all of the materials to build ships and other gear comes from grinding - either mining, ratting, or mission running. Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to. It's possible to bypass grinding for money by either buying ISK or having someone give you a bunch, or via trading (where you spend time buying and reselling items, which I don't consider grinding), but it wouldn't be possible for the majority of players to do this.
I couldnt figure out how to explore, so exploring sucks.
I couldnt figure out how to not piss people off, so everyone sucks.
I couldnt figure out how to reduce risk, so risk sucks.
I couldnt figure out how to make money from PvP, so PvP sucks.
Unless the adult mature community was outnumbered, i would expect a bit more than this.
Originally posted by grimboj Originally posted by Jhughesy
Originally posted by Cobane SWG did set a mark on the map for MMORPGS it was a thing called Communtiy that didnt last to long though. WOW put numbers on the board big numbers. Money talks. EVE what did it do? I hope something good.
hehehee I love this bit 1. The largest single shard virtual world online. Split down to 5000 zones, 25000 concurrent users / 5000 zones = 5 people per zone. Not exactly "Immense pvp warring"
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
See above :P
3. Great graphics. The memory leaks are good too.
4. Large roleplay community. 5. A sandbox style virtual world where YOU choose your destiny. LOL! "There" & "Second Life" are sandboxes - you can upload your own textures & even your own 3dmax models in "There". In "Second Life" you can write in their own programming language and script entire worlds. A game (EVE) where they isolate spawns to asteroid belts so they can claim its not PvE orientated is not "Choose your destiny".
6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc. Well you can scratch "explorer & salvager" for a start - where are the skills for exploring and what does one do when he explores that cant be done using the map function? :P Eve splits its auction house down to regions, nice idea but anyone that seriously gets into the game will find this IMMENSELY annoying as you cannot find the right ammo without taking a 30 minute trip. You can make pittence trading unless you have one of the 1.5billion credit transports. 7. A developer who actually listens to it's community. 8. A more mature community. "A more pompass community" would be more accurate. You have to spend 12 months in-game before you have a respectable character and DESPITE the game being PvP orientated people isolate any pvp type behaviour (ganking, thieving) as "10 year old WoW player" behaviour. Its an extremely uncomfortable elitist atmosphere that is not for everyone.
9. No Elves. 10. Wars over territory and resources. 11. Losing has a consequence. True risk/reward. Put these all together and you get the best MMORPG on the market at this moment.
If youre going to sell a game to a public forum, atleast paint an accurate picture.
With this message grimboj has attained the rank of Killer of Fanboys.
I couldnt figure out how to explore, so exploring sucks.
Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the EVE fanatics has managed to explain how to make exploring a career path in EVE?
Originally posted by RollinDutch
Well, to be an explorer, you grab a ship - preferably something fast with a good cloaking device - and head out to dangerous space. You start cranking out scan probes and hope that you get a twitch. Sometimes you find nothing. Sometimes you can triangulate on a sensor anomaly. When you warp there you could find an asteroid belt that evaded earlier survey, or perhaps a pirate fleet depot loaded with ships which are unhappy to see you, and capable of expressing that unhappiness with large amounts of firepower. There's a half-dozen skills or so which allow you to improve your scanning and probing
What type of career are you looking to do Pantastic cos i've played three different Jobs; miner, fighter and Commander. So if you have any questions, maybe i'll be able to answer.
being online today - I've been an empire trader - I helped find a cloaked ship and jump on it to kill it - then I built stuff - then I changed a skill training - Then I think I had to log off right at the moment something nasty was happening but I won't go into that here.
When I speak of Grinding I mean having to do the same thing over and over and over to level up and be "good" at it.
IF I want to be a great miner I can be without ever using a mining laser. If I want to be a good pvp'r I can be without doing so (although no one would believe me and not having experience in that aspect is a disadvantage, but the willingness to learn is good). There's also trading skills that will reduce the amount of ISK you have to pay up in order to get items on the market.
As for the final two humans alive on planet Earth arguing about what the better MMO was - I kinda agree. No one else can change other peoples minds. No one else can tell people how they should be playing and why they should be playing.
No two people will ever agree 100% on the same thing, especially if they don't really want to.
Eve isn't for everyone. WoW isn't for everyone. There are VERY few games that are FOR everyone. Even Sims 2 gets boring after a while.
Originally posted by jayheld90 Originally posted by _Shadowmage
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
Nope - Guild Wars. wrong buddy, guild wars is instanced. eve online has no instances whatsoever.
What do instances have to do with anything. The poster said single online world - like Eve or Guild Wars - as opposed to separate servers like WOW has. And IMO there are more people logged into Guild Wars than into Eve. Other than that - no complaints with what the guy had to say.
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
Nope - Guild Wars.
wrong buddy, guild wars is instanced. eve online has no instances whatsoever.
What do instances have to do with anything. The poster said single online world - like Eve or Guild Wars - as opposed to separate servers like WOW has. And IMO there are more people logged into Guild Wars than into Eve. Other than that - no complaints with what the guy had to say.
A single world to me would construe the ability to see, meet and talk to everyone that's there. I haven't played Guild Wars in a while, but I'm sure that's not possible is it?
As for wow's claim of 20M + players, it's really not the same as having 29K users logged in at the same time and yes, if you really really want to you could try to talk to everyone.
Or atleast say hello in local while traveling throughout empire. Wonder how long it would take? Wonder who'd notice?
EVE has no real risk/reward mechanics at all that I'm aware of. For example, it's much more dangerous to mine in one of the chokepoint systems between 0.0 and secure space than to mine in alliance controlled territory, but mining in alliance territory provides far more rewards. It's far more risky for a pirate to attack a combat ship than a hauler, but the reward of hitting a hauler is generally much better than that of hitting a combat ship. The vaunted risk/reward doesn't really seem to be there when you actually look.
Originally posted by Sidrat
Single Shard server, zero amount of grinding (unless you really like doing the same thing for more than a couple of hours at a time).
This is just an absurd claim, EVE has a HUGE amount of grinding. PVP combat doesn't generate resources for new ships, all of the materials to build ships and other gear comes from grinding - either mining, ratting, or mission running. Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to. It's possible to bypass grinding for money by either buying ISK or having someone give you a bunch, or via trading (where you spend time buying and reselling items, which I don't consider grinding), but it wouldn't be possible for the majority of players to do this.
Are you saying that there is no risk involved in doing piracy in Eve, compared to say, the pvp in Guild Wars? What is there to lose in GW? What is there to gain in GW?
There are different ways to do piracy in Eve. Stealing people's ore is probably the most risk-free form, and not very rewarding. More bountiful means are to take other people's ships without destroying anything, robbing people at gun-point, or bounty hunting. There are usually people with over a billion isk on their head at any given time.
I've never heard about any other mmo which caters to pvp rewards the same as Eve.
And how can you claim that you can't earn money in Eve by pvp? There are even npc agents which help you with pvp bounty hunting. If you don't like mining but need minerals, you earn money and buy them. If you don't like ratting but need salvage, you earn money and buy it, if you don't like missions but need a BPO, you earn money and buy it. What I like about Eve is how you can play any way you want, as long as you earn the money you need for whatever you need to do. Eve is the only game I know about where you can do nothing but pvp and still progress without having to earn your levels by bashing monsters for hours.
Anyone who thinks there is no risk in EVE is straight up retarded.
You can hate the game all you want, but saying there is no risk to death is the dumbest thing ever.
I just lost 10 million+ worth of gear and a ship because I did something stupid (warped into a hostile situation flying my no-armor no-shield loot carrying ship). Not only the isk loss, but the time to get all the pieces back to rebuild the ship and re-outfit was more than most would could consider "risk worthy". Not every item you want is instantly available where you are.
So feel free to hate the game, but dont make shit up.
Originally posted by Cobane SWG did set a mark on the map for MMORPGS it was a thing called Communtiy that didnt last to long though. WOW put numbers on the board big numbers. Money talks. EVE what did it do? I hope something good.
1. The largest single shard virtual world online.
Split down to 5000 zones, 25000 concurrent users / 5000 zones = 5 people per zone. Not exactly "Immense pvp warring" Actually you are once again wrong those zones as you call them are on the same server they are just split up by distance and gates. and they can support a lot more than 5 people.
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
See above :P I agree
3. Great graphics.
The memory leaks are good too. Memory leets were stopped over 11 months ago talk about out of date lol
5. A sandbox style virtual world where YOU choose your destiny.
LOL! "There" & "Second Life" are sandboxes - you can upload your own textures & even your own 3dmax models in "There". In "Second Life" you can write in their own programming language and script entire worlds. A game (EVE) where they isolate spawns to asteroid belts so they can claim its not PvE orientated is not "Choose your destiny". Right and i suppose second life's lag and messy game world make up a sandbox hell i couldnt even navigate there with all the walls in place.
6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc.
Well you can scratch "explorer & salvager" for a start - where are the skills for exploring Look on the market noob and what does one do when he explores that cant be done using the map function? err you cant find everything on the map noob thats what scan probes are for :P Eve splits its auction house down to regions, nice idea but anyone that seriously gets into the game will find this IMMENSELY annoying as you cannot find the right ammo without taking a 30 minute trip. You can make pittence trading unless you have one of the 1.5billion credit transports.
If youre going to sell a game to a public forum, atleast paint an accurate picture.
WoW you are really out of date I advise you return to RF online at least there you can pretend your an elite guy there.
I couldnt figure out how to explore, so exploring sucks.
Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the EVE fanatics has managed to explain how to make exploring a career path in EVE?
This one has already bee partially answered bu ti thought id complete it.
Throughout the eve systems there are many hidden things to find from a rare minerall asteroid belt to a complex they dont appear on the map. So you ahve to find them using the scan probe system [which has recently gone through an upgrade].
And thats basically it a good probe user is in big demand right now because you can find things such as tech 2 bluprints in such places but those are the hardest to find. Also you can make yourser a lot f cash finding them yourself too as the loot there is quite rare.
6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc.
This is a really good summary of why you shouldn't take the fanboys very seriously. "Explorer" simply isn't a career path in EVEexplained this one earlier, none of the fans are going to be able to tell you how to actually afford to replace ships lost from pirates while exploring try insurance and try using a cloaking device, or what exactly you're supposed to explore. "Miner" you get to experience the entire career choice during the tutorial Yep pretty right here mining is boring but then again its meant to be., you focus a laser on a rock and wait. "Hauler" means you fly a non-combat ship, click quickly on bookmarks Travel bookamrks stopped existing a month ago you now warp to 0km instead of 15km, and hope you don't get caught. "Research" means you grind the same dozen or so missions for a particular agent. I could go on, but you get the idea You now have a system in place where you can invent blueprints by getting a tech 1 version of the item you want and turning it into a bluepring ansd soon you can play arround witht hte items stats to make something different..
8. A more mature community.
The EVE community is grossly immature, just not in the sort of way people complain about in WOW. The bulk of the 'community' is people in big alliances demanding that others bow and scrape to them, not exactly endearing to mature adults. Read the EVE board here or the official boards, the EVE players regard the idea that if someone ever mouths off to you you can virtually beat them up and take their stuff as a major feature. So i assume that the guilds in wow dont do this at all then to newbs and strangers get reall pls
11. Losing has a consequence. True risk/reward.
EVE has no real risk/reward mechanics at all that I'm aware of. For example, it's much more dangerous to mine in one of the chokepoint systems between 0.0 and secure space than to mine in alliance controlled territory That would make sence, but mining in alliance territory provides far more rewards Unless you got caught mining that is. It's far more risky for a pirate to attack a combat ship than a hauler, but the reward of hitting a hauler is generally much better than that of hitting a combat ship And i suppose combat ships dont use named modules anymore then. The vaunted risk/reward doesn't really seem to be there when you actually look.
Originally posted by Sidrat
Single Shard server, zero amount of grinding (unless you really like doing the same thing for more than a couple of hours at a time).
This is just an absurd claim, EVE has a HUGE amount of grinding. PVP combat doesn't generate resources for new ships, all of the materials to build ships and other gear comes from grinding - either mining, ratting, or mission running. Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to. It's possible to bypass grinding for money by either buying ISK or having someone give you a bunch, or via trading (where you spend time buying and reselling items, which I don't consider grinding), but it wouldn't be possible for the majority of players to do this. This point i partially agree with exeopt when we talk about grininding we are on about skill leveling.
Once again i correct someones post which is based on lies and out of date infomation.
Please try harder and back yourself up with facts i need a challenge girls.
Eve has a problem and if not addressed it will eventually destroy the game. The rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. While it is far from a crisis now, the big alliances are putting a stranglehold on the game. Entering Eve now, you have limited options available to you.
ISK is very easy to come by, I have made over half a billion since I started over two months ago.
Sounds like you think T2 BPO holders rule EVE and if you don't have one you might as well not play.
Sure is! However, when I read what you just quoted here, I didn't see a description of how to make exploring a career path. I saw a deceptive description of how to explore in EVE, but no mention of how to make money (or other in-game advancement)at it, which is kind of a key point of something being a career. Therefore, I was completely correct when I pointed out that none of you have explained how to make exploring a career in EVE.
For the fun of all, I'll point out how the description of this 'career' differs from the reality of playing.
Well, to be an explorer, you grab a ship - preferably something fast with a good cloaking device -
When I played EVE, there weren't depots of ships for you to just waltz in and grab. Cloaking devices weren't, IIRC, something you can just pop on one of the cheap early frigates either. And cloaking device is not some easy skill you pick up in your first week of training, you need at least a couple of months of training time to get to it.
So what this really means is that if you want to choose the 'explorer' career path, you can't do it from the start. You need to first choose some other type of career, then spend weeks grinding for cash (or buy ISK) and a couple of months for your skills to train up. You can't really pick up EVE and 'pick your destiny' by deciding to go down the explorer career path from the start, you need to spend a few months on other stuff beforehand.
and head out to dangerous space.
This means that this is not a career path you can ease into. There's no warmup phase where you can learn how the mechanics work without being a big gank target. Get ready to spend a lot of time travelling between systems in your pod and grinding out (or buying) ISK to replace losses while you learn the ins and outs of fighting before you can even start exploring.
You start cranking out scan probes and hope that you get a twitch. Sometimes you find nothing. Sometimes you can triangulate on a sensor anomaly.
This is pretty deceptive about the time involved. Doing this means spending hours on end staring at the atrocious scanner interface, putting different numbers in for scan distance, and sorting through text lists of system junk. EVE fanatics seem to find repeating inane tasks for hours on end commendable, and will often insult you for being impatient, or MTV generation, or something along those lines if you express any dislike of this sort of thing, but most people don't consider it good gameplay.
When you warp there you could find an asteroid belt that evaded earlier survey,
To describe this for people unfamiliar withe EVE, it will be a cluster of rocks in space that is idenitical to the other clusters of rock in the system except that it doesn't show on the default list of places to jump to. It's kind of neat to find one once, and pointless beyond that.
or perhaps a pirate fleet depot loaded with ships which are unhappy to see you, and capable of expressing that unhappiness with large amounts of firepower.
In other words, you might find an NPC spawn just like the NPC spawns scattered all through asteroid belts, which might cost you your ship or might allow you to grind them for money just like you could any other NPC spawn. They're going to look and act identical to other pirates, since that's the way EVE works in general.
You could also find a spot where players have stashed gear for later use, which is probably the best way to make money at this kind of thing, but isn't really what most people think of when they think of 'exploring'.
Originally posted by Faur Are you saying that there is no risk involved in doing piracy in Eve, compared to say, the pvp in Guild Wars? What is there to lose in GW? What is there to gain in GW?
I'm saying that there is no tie between the risk taken in piracy and the reward. Jumping hauler in general provides far more reward than jumping a battleship, with far less risk of losing and the exact same value risked, for example. Ganking someone whos ship is already damaged provides the same reward as attacking them on their own, but with far less risk.
And how can you claim that you can't earn money in Eve by pvp?
As RollinDutch says, reading is fun. I said that players as a whole can't earn money in EVE through PVP, not that no individual is able to. You can shift the PVE grind around, but someone is PVE grinding to fuel EVE's PVP. "Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to."
Originally posted by LordSlater And thats basically it a good probe user is in big demand right now because you can find things such as tech 2 bluprints in such places but those are the hardest to find. Also you can make yourser a lot f cash finding them yourself too as the loot there is quite rare.
Interesting, so they've added some actual support for exploration in a recent patch since that wasn't there when I played. I guess that means that the EVE fanboys who listed exploration as a career path in EVE before the patch were lying then?
Originally posted by Jhughesy 8. A more mature community.
Originally posted by Pantastic The EVE community is grossly immature, just not in the sort of way people complain about in WOW. The bulk of the 'community' is people in big alliances demanding that others bow and scrape to them, not exactly endearing to mature adults. Read the EVE board here or the official boards, the EVE players regard the idea that if someone ever mouths off to you you can virtually beat them up and take their stuff as a major feature.
Originally posted by LordSlater So i assume that the guilds in wow dont do this at all then to newbs and strangers get reall pls
So according LordSlater, EVE has a community that is just as immature as that of WOW, not quite the bastion of mature community that Jhughesy was claiming. BTW, players in WOW can't "do this" since WOW does not have gank-and-loot PVP, it is simply not an action you can take.
Originally posted by Sidrat When I speak of Grinding I mean having to do the same thing over and over and over to level up and be "good" at it.
OK, so then what the claim really is is that "EVE doesn't have grinding as long as you redefine grinding to mean just grinding specifically for levels or skills", which isn't quite as impressive of a claim. WOW at endgame has absolutely zero grinding by that standard, for example.
Redefining 'grinding' specifically so that it doesn't include the grinding that EVE has isn't really convincing to other people, though.
Im kinda in the same boat. I can't stand the same game very long and i really hate grinding. Have you tried Dofus? I know many people think it's stupid but it's very different from any other game and the community is realy strong. If you eer decide to check it out my ingame name is Suffering. Hope it helps.
Overall Pantastic most people consider something a grind when they don't enjoy doing something. Does EVE have activites to earn isk that could be considered grind? Yes. Do you have to do them? No. I never considered mission running a grind when i did them because I enjoyed working with my corp to beat the more difficult missions. EVE just have enough ways to play that you don't have to do a activity that you don't enjoy to aquire assets to aquire goods.
And for exploration before the patch involved running around to planets scanning for enemy assets to acout. Its was more of a scout or spy profession involving exploring Enemy space. And to be honest the only game I played that had anything that remotely came close to a exploration system was CoH with the badge/plaque system and even that was pretty pointless.
I'm saying that there is no tie between the risk taken in piracy and the reward. Jumping hauler in general provides far more reward than jumping a battleship, with far less risk of losing and the exact same value risked, for example. Ganking someone whos ship is already damaged provides the same reward as attacking them on their own, but with far less risk.
As RollinDutch says, reading is fun. I said that players as a whole can't earn money in EVE through PVP, not that no individual is able to. You can shift the PVE grind around, but someone is PVE grinding to fuel EVE's PVP. "Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to."
I don't understand why so many people hate Eve so much. I'm not saying it's a perfect game, but some of these arguments are just really.. infuriating. I'm not here to steal people from whatever mmo it is you're playing into playin Eve, I'm just trying to defend it from a lot of these arguments that seem to come from some seemingly extremely disgruntled players.
So, because the risk isn't always perfectly scaled with the reward (robbing a soldier and not a bank irl would be "unbalanced" too), means that Eve does not have risk/reward pvp at all?
This is what I'm trying to argue. Even if it's "broken", it *does* have it. Most mmo's today do not. What is there to win and lose in Guild Wars, WoW, or EQ by trying to rob someone? You *can't*. What is there to gain or lose by invading another alliance's territory? You *can't*.
About pvp and money, so because the individual player can earn money by pvp'ing, does this all become moot because somewhere, someone has to earn money by pve'ing? I doubt anyone sits down and goes "it's a sucky job, but someone has to do it" when they log into Eve and play it the way they want. I doubt anyone is feeling *compelled* to mine because they "have" to.
If you don't like it, don't play it. But these "eve sucks because mining is boring and someone has to mine" arguments are getting really lame.
Comments
This is not a game.
Unless the adult mature community was outnumbered, i would expect a bit more than this.
Edit: I forgot the essence: HAPPY NEW YEAR
1. The largest single shard virtual world online.
Split down to 5000 zones, 25000 concurrent users / 5000 zones = 5 people per zone. Not exactly "Immense pvp warring"
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
See above :P
3. Great graphics.
The memory leaks are good too.
4. Large roleplay community.
5. A sandbox style virtual world where YOU choose your destiny.
LOL! "There" & "Second Life" are sandboxes - you can upload your own textures & even your own 3dmax models in "There". In "Second Life" you can write in their own programming language and script entire worlds. A game (EVE) where they isolate spawns to asteroid belts so they can claim its not PvE orientated is not "Choose your destiny".
6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc.
Well you can scratch "explorer & salvager" for a start - where are the skills for exploring and what does one do when he explores that cant be done using the map function? :P Eve splits its auction house down to regions, nice idea but anyone that seriously gets into the game will find this IMMENSELY annoying as you cannot find the right ammo without taking a 30 minute trip. You can make pittence trading unless you have one of the 1.5billion credit transports.
7. A developer who actually listens to it's community.
8. A more mature community.
"A more pompass community" would be more accurate. You have to spend 12 months in-game before you have a respectable character and DESPITE the game being PvP orientated people isolate any pvp type behaviour (ganking, thieving) as "10 year old WoW player" behaviour. Its an extremely uncomfortable elitist atmosphere that is not for everyone.
9. No Elves.
10. Wars over territory and resources.
11. Losing has a consequence. True risk/reward.
Put these all together and you get the best MMORPG on the market at this moment.
If youre going to sell a game to a public forum, atleast paint an accurate picture.
With this message grimboj has attained the rank of Killer of Fanboys.
All hail grimboj! :P
This planet could get hit by an asteroid killing everyone on earth but two mmorpg members and they'd start arguing about EvE.
Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the EVE fanatics has managed to explain how to make exploring a career path in EVE?
Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the EVE fanatics has managed to explain how to make exploring a career path in EVE?
Reading is fun.This is not a game.
being online today - I've been an empire trader - I helped find a cloaked ship and jump on it to kill it - then I built stuff - then I changed a skill training - Then I think I had to log off right at the moment something nasty was happening but I won't go into that here.
When I speak of Grinding I mean having to do the same thing over and over and over to level up and be "good" at it.
IF I want to be a great miner I can be without ever using a mining laser. If I want to be a good pvp'r I can be without doing so (although no one would believe me and not having experience in that aspect is a disadvantage, but the willingness to learn is good). There's also trading skills that will reduce the amount of ISK you have to pay up in order to get items on the market.
As for the final two humans alive on planet Earth arguing about what the better MMO was - I kinda agree. No one else can change other peoples minds. No one else can tell people how they should be playing and why they should be playing.
No two people will ever agree 100% on the same thing, especially if they don't really want to.
Eve isn't for everyone. WoW isn't for everyone. There are VERY few games that are FOR everyone. Even Sims 2 gets boring after a while.
Life is about memories the more the better!
wrong buddy, guild wars is instanced. eve online has no instances whatsoever.
What do instances have to do with anything. The poster said single online world - like Eve or Guild Wars - as opposed to separate servers like WOW has. And IMO there are more people logged into Guild Wars than into Eve. Other than that - no complaints with what the guy had to say.
wrong buddy, guild wars is instanced. eve online has no instances whatsoever.
What do instances have to do with anything. The poster said single online world - like Eve or Guild Wars - as opposed to separate servers like WOW has. And IMO there are more people logged into Guild Wars than into Eve. Other than that - no complaints with what the guy had to say.
A single world to me would construe the ability to see, meet and talk to everyone that's there. I haven't played Guild Wars in a while, but I'm sure that's not possible is it?
As for wow's claim of 20M + players, it's really not the same as having 29K users logged in at the same time and yes, if you really really want to you could try to talk to everyone.
Or atleast say hello in local while traveling throughout empire. Wonder how long it would take? Wonder who'd notice?
Life is about memories the more the better!
This is just an absurd claim, EVE has a HUGE amount of grinding. PVP combat doesn't generate resources for new ships, all of the materials to build ships and other gear comes from grinding - either mining, ratting, or mission running. Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to. It's possible to bypass grinding for money by either buying ISK or having someone give you a bunch, or via trading (where you spend time buying and reselling items, which I don't consider grinding), but it wouldn't be possible for the majority of players to do this.
Are you saying that there is no risk involved in doing piracy in Eve, compared to say, the pvp in Guild Wars? What is there to lose in GW? What is there to gain in GW?
There are different ways to do piracy in Eve. Stealing people's ore is probably the most risk-free form, and not very rewarding. More bountiful means are to take other people's ships without destroying anything, robbing people at gun-point, or bounty hunting. There are usually people with over a billion isk on their head at any given time.
I've never heard about any other mmo which caters to pvp rewards the same as Eve.
And how can you claim that you can't earn money in Eve by pvp? There are even npc agents which help you with pvp bounty hunting. If you don't like mining but need minerals, you earn money and buy them. If you don't like ratting but need salvage, you earn money and buy it, if you don't like missions but need a BPO, you earn money and buy it. What I like about Eve is how you can play any way you want, as long as you earn the money you need for whatever you need to do. Eve is the only game I know about where you can do nothing but pvp and still progress without having to earn your levels by bashing monsters for hours.
Anyone who thinks there is no risk in EVE is straight up retarded.
You can hate the game all you want, but saying there is no risk to death is the dumbest thing ever.
I just lost 10 million+ worth of gear and a ship because I did something stupid (warped into a hostile situation flying my no-armor no-shield loot carrying ship). Not only the isk loss, but the time to get all the pieces back to rebuild the ship and re-outfit was more than most would could consider "risk worthy". Not every item you want is instantly available where you are.
So feel free to hate the game, but dont make shit up.
1. The largest single shard virtual world online.
Split down to 5000 zones, 25000 concurrent users / 5000 zones = 5 people per zone. Not exactly "Immense pvp warring" Actually you are once again wrong those zones as you call them are on the same server they are just split up by distance and gates. and they can support a lot more than 5 people.
2. The most amount of users logged into a single online world at the same time.
See above :P I agree
3. Great graphics.
The memory leaks are good too. Memory leets were stopped over 11 months ago talk about out of date lol
5. A sandbox style virtual world where YOU choose your destiny.
LOL! "There" & "Second Life" are sandboxes - you can upload your own textures & even your own 3dmax models in "There". In "Second Life" you can write in their own programming language and script entire worlds. A game (EVE) where they isolate spawns to asteroid belts so they can claim its not PvE orientated is not "Choose your destiny". Right and i suppose second life's lag and messy game world make up a sandbox hell i couldnt even navigate there with all the walls in place.
6. Many different career paths, miner, hauler, trader, combat, explorer, salvager, research, production, pirating, empire building etc etc.
Well you can scratch "explorer & salvager" for a start - where are the skills for exploring Look on the market noob and what does one do when he explores that cant be done using the map function? err you cant find everything on the map noob thats what scan probes are forIf youre going to sell a game to a public forum, atleast paint an accurate picture.
WoW you are really out of date I advise you return to RF online at least there you can pretend your an elite guy there.
Did anyone else notice that not a single one of the EVE fanatics has managed to explain how to make exploring a career path in EVE?
This one has already bee partially answered bu ti thought id complete it.
Throughout the eve systems there are many hidden things to find from a rare minerall asteroid belt to a complex they dont appear on the map. So you ahve to find them using the scan probe system [which has recently gone through an upgrade].
And thats basically it a good probe user is in big demand right now because you can find things such as tech 2 bluprints in such places but those are the hardest to find. Also you can make yourser a lot f cash finding them yourself too as the loot there is quite rare.
This is a really good summary of why you shouldn't take the fanboys very seriously. "Explorer" simply isn't a career path in EVE explained this one earlier, none of the fans are going to be able to tell you how to actually afford to replace ships lost from pirates while exploring try insurance and try using a cloaking device, or what exactly you're supposed to explore. "Miner" you get to experience the entire career choice during the tutorial Yep pretty right here mining is boring but then again its meant to be., you focus a laser on a rock and wait. "Hauler" means you fly a non-combat ship, click quickly on bookmarks Travel bookamrks stopped existing a month ago you now warp to 0km instead of 15km, and hope you don't get caught. "Research" means you grind the same dozen or so missions for a particular agent. I could go on, but you get the idea You now have a system in place where you can invent blueprints by getting a tech 1 version of the item you want and turning it into a bluepring ansd soon you can play arround witht hte items stats to make something different..
The EVE community is grossly immature, just not in the sort of way people complain about in WOW. The bulk of the 'community' is people in big alliances demanding that others bow and scrape to them, not exactly endearing to mature adults. Read the EVE board here or the official boards, the EVE players regard the idea that if someone ever mouths off to you you can virtually beat them up and take their stuff as a major feature. So i assume that the guilds in wow dont do this at all then to newbs and strangers get reall pls
EVE has no real risk/reward mechanics at all that I'm aware of. For example, it's much more dangerous to mine in one of the chokepoint systems between 0.0 and secure space than to mine in alliance controlled territory That would make sence, but mining in alliance territory provides far more rewards Unless you got caught mining that is. It's far more risky for a pirate to attack a combat ship than a hauler, but the reward of hitting a hauler is generally much better than that of hitting a combat ship And i suppose combat ships dont use named modules anymore then
. The vaunted risk/reward doesn't really seem to be there when you actually look.
This is just an absurd claim, EVE has a HUGE amount of grinding. PVP combat doesn't generate resources for new ships, all of the materials to build ships and other gear comes from grinding - either mining, ratting, or mission running. Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to. It's possible to bypass grinding for money by either buying ISK or having someone give you a bunch, or via trading (where you spend time buying and reselling items, which I don't consider grinding), but it wouldn't be possible for the majority of players to do this. This point i partially agree with exeopt when we talk about grininding we are on about skill leveling.
Once again i correct someones post which is based on lies and out of date infomation.
Please try harder and back yourself up with facts i need a challenge girls.
Eve has a problem and if not addressed it will eventually destroy the game.
The rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. While it is far from a crisis now, the big alliances are putting a stranglehold on the game.
Entering Eve now, you have limited options available to you.
Sounds like you think T2 BPO holders rule EVE and if you don't have one you might as well not play.
Sure is! However, when I read what you just quoted here, I didn't see a description of how to make exploring a career path. I saw a deceptive description of how to explore in EVE, but no mention of how to make money (or other in-game advancement)at it, which is kind of a key point of something being a career. Therefore, I was completely correct when I pointed out that none of you have explained how to make exploring a career in EVE.
For the fun of all, I'll point out how the description of this 'career' differs from the reality of playing.
When I played EVE, there weren't depots of ships for you to just waltz in and grab. Cloaking devices weren't, IIRC, something you can just pop on one of the cheap early frigates either. And cloaking device is not some easy skill you pick up in your first week of training, you need at least a couple of months of training time to get to it.
So what this really means is that if you want to choose the 'explorer' career path, you can't do it from the start. You need to first choose some other type of career, then spend weeks grinding for cash (or buy ISK) and a couple of months for your skills to train up. You can't really pick up EVE and 'pick your destiny' by deciding to go down the explorer career path from the start, you need to spend a few months on other stuff beforehand.
This means that this is not a career path you can ease into. There's no warmup phase where you can learn how the mechanics work without being a big gank target. Get ready to spend a lot of time travelling between systems in your pod and grinding out (or buying) ISK to replace losses while you learn the ins and outs of fighting before you can even start exploring.
This is pretty deceptive about the time involved. Doing this means spending hours on end staring at the atrocious scanner interface, putting different numbers in for scan distance, and sorting through text lists of system junk. EVE fanatics seem to find repeating inane tasks for hours on end commendable, and will often insult you for being impatient, or MTV generation, or something along those lines if you express any dislike of this sort of thing, but most people don't consider it good gameplay.
To describe this for people unfamiliar withe EVE, it will be a cluster of rocks in space that is idenitical to the other clusters of rock in the system except that it doesn't show on the default list of places to jump to. It's kind of neat to find one once, and pointless beyond that.
In other words, you might find an NPC spawn just like the NPC spawns scattered all through asteroid belts, which might cost you your ship or might allow you to grind them for money just like you could any other NPC spawn. They're going to look and act identical to other pirates, since that's the way EVE works in general.
You could also find a spot where players have stashed gear for later use, which is probably the best way to make money at this kind of thing, but isn't really what most people think of when they think of 'exploring'.
I'm saying that there is no tie between the risk taken in piracy and the reward. Jumping hauler in general provides far more reward than jumping a battleship, with far less risk of losing and the exact same value risked, for example. Ganking someone whos ship is already damaged provides the same reward as attacking them on their own, but with far less risk.
As RollinDutch says, reading is fun. I said that players as a whole can't earn money in EVE through PVP, not that no individual is able to. You can shift the PVE grind around, but someone is PVE grinding to fuel EVE's PVP. "Most of people's playtime in EVE overall is grinding or traveling, though some individuals may not have to."
Interesting, so they've added some actual support for exploration in a recent patch since that wasn't there when I played. I guess that means that the EVE fanboys who listed exploration as a career path in EVE before the patch were lying then?
So according LordSlater, EVE has a community that is just as immature as that of WOW, not quite the bastion of mature community that Jhughesy was claiming. BTW, players in WOW can't "do this" since WOW does not have gank-and-loot PVP, it is simply not an action you can take.
OK, so then what the claim really is is that "EVE doesn't have grinding as long as you redefine grinding to mean just grinding specifically for levels or skills", which isn't quite as impressive of a claim. WOW at endgame has absolutely zero grinding by that standard, for example.
Redefining 'grinding' specifically so that it doesn't include the grinding that EVE has isn't really convincing to other people, though.
And for exploration before the patch involved running around to planets scanning for enemy assets to acout. Its was more of a scout or spy profession involving exploring Enemy space. And to be honest the only game I played that had anything that remotely came close to a exploration system was CoH with the badge/plaque system and even that was pretty pointless.
I don't understand why so many people hate Eve so much. I'm not saying it's a perfect game, but some of these arguments are just really.. infuriating. I'm not here to steal people from whatever mmo it is you're playing into playin Eve, I'm just trying to defend it from a lot of these arguments that seem to come from some seemingly extremely disgruntled players.
So, because the risk isn't always perfectly scaled with the reward (robbing a soldier and not a bank irl would be "unbalanced" too), means that Eve does not have risk/reward pvp at all?
This is what I'm trying to argue. Even if it's "broken", it *does* have it. Most mmo's today do not. What is there to win and lose in Guild Wars, WoW, or EQ by trying to rob someone? You *can't*. What is there to gain or lose by invading another alliance's territory? You *can't*.
About pvp and money, so because the individual player can earn money by pvp'ing, does this all become moot because somewhere, someone has to earn money by pve'ing? I doubt anyone sits down and goes "it's a sucky job, but someone has to do it" when they log into Eve and play it the way they want. I doubt anyone is feeling *compelled* to mine because they "have" to.
If you don't like it, don't play it. But these "eve sucks because mining is boring and someone has to mine" arguments are getting really lame.