Originally posted by Cryomatrix You ever eat at ABC pizza? Food screws over my digestion
Nah... I try to stay away from places like that.
As far as not playing L2, well, if you are not having fun, you are not having fun. No reason to put yourself through all the work to end up in a place where you don't want to be.
Man i'm need new places to eat. Basically, I live alone and I don't cook, so i eat out everyday and my choices in my mind are this.
1. cereal from the convenient store where all the hobos/bums hang out
2. ABC pizza
3. Il Panino
4. Hong Kong
5. Cinderella
I need new places, got any suggestions?
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
You do not make money by leveling or gaining xp. You do gain money, but the money you make is not congruent to the money you need to purchase your equipment. If you did nothing but manor and seven signs and leveled up, I don't think you would make enough money.
You, for sure would not be able to afford top D grade. I remember I used soulshots and leveled up and saved my money as much as possible and 1-23 i had only 170k adena.
If you were to let's say, have top D grade at lvl 20, by the time you hit lvl 40, doing manor and seven signs, I'm not so sure you will have enough money for top C grade. The weapon alone runs you 13m. Then again this is top C. If you are able to make enough money just by xping, it will be tougher to have enough money for B grade even after selling your C grade. Lvl 40 to 52 is relatively quick.
A top B weapon will run you 25m, with top B gear roughly another 25m. That's 50m total and your C grade was worth roughly 20m to begin, so by leveling from 40-52, if you're lucky, you may be able afford it. Don't even dream of affording A grade by lvl 61. A grade is roughly 200m. No way, just by playing manor/seven signs will you be able to afford A grade, it will not happen.
In reality, some classes lose money by xping. I know that at lvl 69-70, I made enough money off of drops, to sustain my soulshot, potion, scroll use. I'm not sure if I gained or if I lost money, but I was able to sustain leveling just by the drops, but no way could I afford the 600m worth of gear that I had on just by leveling. You can't do it. You will never make enough money in Lineage 2 if you don't play the market. Playing the market takes time. I used to check prices before i went to work, after i came back from work and before I went to bed. I'd buy low, sell high during work and that's how I made my money.
Overall, i'm not sure if you've played L2 , but you will not make enough money just by leveling, it will not happen, the profit is too low. You have to sacrifice the XP grind to do the money grind.
You cannot rely on drops, because they are too few and far between. In the end, other games do have ridiculous grinds, WoW has a ridiculous grind to get epic gear but then again, if you want the best of the best you have to grind like crazy in any game (even diablo 2). But in Lineage 2, if you want to just "compete" it requires a difficult grind. You can compete in WoW just by leveling to 60 and not even bothering to play the market.
I'm not so far into EVE, either way, I know in about 30 days i'll be able to fly a capital ship (freighter), I'll only be roughly 950m in-game currency away. Of course, i could get it, just by trading my Lineage 2 adena. It would be like 5 adena per 1 EVE currency . I'm pushing 800m in adena .
If you're wondering how I got 800m adena, some dude got his account hacked, the guy who hacked his account sold me roughly 800m worth of gear for 200m . I sold 80% of the gear for 750m. I found out later it was hacked, i did reimubrse the person who got hacked roughly 250m net worth back.
Cryo-"butthurt over L2"-matrix
Hey Torak,
If I were to come back to Lineage 2, it would be for one reason. I'd like to form a group of players that would play together and the goal of the group was to be 100% self-sufficient. Essentially, this group would spoil/craft their own gear, nothing is bought from players, only NPC stores. It's creatiing a microcosm of Lineage 2 in which it was actually 100% legit where you ddin't have cheaters and botters. Thus teamwork and rationing and choosing who gets to wear what with limited resources would be the fun of the game. I played L2 for the challenge of affording my A grade legitimately, but this woudl be a whole new challenge. We could even do it on the bot server, ahh . . I mean Franz.
Or we could do it modified, in which we could have a friend use a warsmith to craft crap for us as long as we found the recipe. The only reason to do this is because warsmiths are Boring. We could create a blog and have fun with it . That's the only way I'll come back.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Love how people use subscription numbers to prove how smart they think they are. Not to mention the special ed camp behind them saying,"well spoken, butthurt(wtf homo?),or /signed". 40,000 accounts in a weeks time created using chinese ip for the trial accounts only to have NcSoft say they finally broke 100k users. 40,000 accounts spammed mmorpg just to bot.
Anyone that was there at the beginning of Franz can tell what type of company NcSoft aka CNSoft really is. How many times have they changed rules that in the long run only helped bots.. They now train you with no fear of losing items because exp doesn't matter to them. Piss off l2 fanbois, the only thing good about the game are the sieges which happen all to often /sarcasimoff
Originally posted by Knightcry Love how people use subscription numbers to prove how smart they think they are. Not to mention the special ed camp behind them saying,"well spoken, butthurt(wtf homo?),or /signed". 40,000 accounts in a weeks time created using chinese ip for the trial accounts only to have NcSoft say they finally broke 100k users. 40,000 accounts spammed mmorpg just to bot. Anyone that was there at the beginning of Franz can tell what type of company NcSoft aka CNSoft really is. How many times have they changed rules that in the long run only helped bots.. They now train you with no fear of losing items because exp doesn't matter to them. Piss off l2 fanbois, the only thing good about the game are the sieges which happen all to often /sarcasimoff
Yes, and acting like your opinion is fact, now THAT makes you inteligent. Piss off? Your in the Lineage 2 section. Get out of here kid, there is no need for you here. Haters of the game should cancel their subscribtion, shut up, and move along already.
Originally posted by Cryomatrix -removed to avoid crazy post length
I think you missed the point I was trying to make. My point was that to gain money, you have to kill mobs. Diffrent mobs alright, but you still have to kill mobs to gain loot, adena or other items you wish to make money on (and you have to sell them, ofcourse)
If your gonna try to insult someone do better than kid, anything less than "your a lineage2 basement living, roleplay lightning bolt throwing panty waste mamas boy" only bores me.
My opinion is the game is boring unless your at sieges. The maker of walker can be traced back to NcSoft with paperwork, how is that opinion? How was the post from the Admin on this forum about the issues with the trial keys opinion? Get your FACTS straight before you call me out. Please if you reply explain why NcSoft doesn't return items or adena to people that had their accounts "hacked" or won't even give up the ip that accessed the account without a court order. If you do maybe it will save the few on the fence with this game.
If your gonna try to insult someone do better than kid, anything less than "your a lineage2 basement living, roleplay lightning bolt throwing panty waste mamas boy" only bores me.
My opinion is the game is boring unless your at sieges. The maker of walker can be traced back to NcSoft with paperwork, how is that opinion? How was the post from the Admin on this forum about the issues with the trial keys opinion? Get your FACTS straight before you call me out. Please if you reply explain why NcSoft doesn't return items or adena to people that had their accounts "hacked" or won't even give up the ip that accessed the account without a court order. If you do maybe it will save the few on the fence with this game.
Why? You were acting like a child, I found it very fitting.
You say that its your opinion, then actually post it like an opinion instead of acting like its fact. I wasn't even refering to your little bot issue. If you actually bothered to read my post before you mouth off, you will see that I didn't even adress the bot issue.
L2 is a piece of crap, a horrible grind that should die away ASAP, regardless how bot infested it is at any given moment.
Yes, it REALLY is.
Sorry to inform you, but every mmorpg is a horrible grind. And it won't die asap, its still the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, only Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 had more. Move along.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Umm No, not so much Tor, I dont really miss it. As I left I heard form a few poeple that they were making an effort to clean it up, obviouslt another NCSoft lie.
Your assesment of others games is true, yes, most of them have alot of bots. However none so prevailent as L2. Your an L2 Fan boi and I understand where your coming from, but it appears I have vastly more gaming experience than you do obviously, and find its just easier to go play a game that is one ALOT more fun, and has an even playing field. So, no you wont be seeing me back in game, and even if I did come back I doupt you would be able to go to the same spots I do anyway.
I'm curious Hatefull,
Is there a game that is out now that you are playing and also think is good? Or do you feel that most of the current offerings are pretty much not worth it?
Outstanding question, and one I feel compelled to answer. No, not really, allow me to digress a bit please.
I started off gaming with Star Wars galaxies. I started in BETA and continued all the way until they completely ruined it. I had a pre-pub 9 Jedi and all that, so when they "dumbed down" the game so everyone could start as that, I obviously left.
Not wanting to limit myself I started playing L2, and was into the for quite awhile as well (from closed beta). However barring its beautifull art work, (best in games period at this point imo) that grind is just impossible, and when you finally max out...you get to do it again...2 more times, so it got old ma dn then for the other reasons I stated before. Anyway, I lost interest. One thing I forgot to mention, I love that in L2 you can de-level, it makes it so maxing out your level is not a guarantee, that is one element of that game I think should be in ALL PvP based MMORPG's.
I never limit mysefl to just one game, I test, and play several games, some seriously (WoW is pretty serious right now as far as time spent playing) and some not so much (GW, beta tested that, and played some live, just hate it, but its free so I see the appeal).
The simple answer is no, I see nothing that I would recommend to anyone, however, when W.A.R releases, (War Hammer Online) I feel that this game will be the MMORPG that will finally topple all others (Genre specific of course).
But currently its all re-packaged same thing over and over, like I stated above I am waiting on WAR to hit, if that turns out to be a waste that will probably but a bullet in the head of my gaming hobby, most games out now just bore me into sleep.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
L2 is a piece of crap, a horrible grind that should die away ASAP, regardless how bot infested it is at any given moment.
Yes, it REALLY is.
Sorry to inform you, but every mmorpg is a horrible grind. And it won't die asap, its still the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, only Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 had more. Move along.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level. haha, I see I messed up my post a little. What I meant was that Lineage 2 indeed is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, online Lineage 1 and World of Warcraft have more. Also, I really doubt Lineage 2 really has any more botters then other mmorpg's. There are a few key diffrences. the most important one is that it makes none use of instancing. to gain money in most MMORPG's, your best off doing instances. These aren't avaible in Lineage 2, hence you see them EVERYWHERE.
L2 is a piece of crap, a horrible grind that should die away ASAP, regardless how bot infested it is at any given moment.
Yes, it REALLY is.
Sorry to inform you, but every mmorpg is a horrible grind. And it won't die asap, its still the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, only Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 had more. Move along.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level. haha, I see I messed up my post a little. What I meant was that Lineage 2 indeed is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, online Lineage 1 and World of Warcraft have more. Also, I really doubt Lineage 2 really has any more botters then other mmorpg's. There are a few key diffrences. the most important one is that it makes none use of instancing. to gain money in most MMORPG's, your best off doing instances. These aren't avaible in Lineage 2, hence you see them EVERYWHERE.
See, but that's just it. They are everywhere. And they swarm over areas that legit players need to hunt in for quests and the like. My example of the swamps area is based on actual events. I was doing a quest out there and it was nearly impossible to finish the quest because everywhere I looked, there were bots - all dwarves, with the same exact face/hair, same exact gear, same exact weapons... I'd go for a mob and, without fail, at least one - sometimes more than one - would be going for the same mob. By the time I'd get to them, they were taken. Or, in the middle of me fighting them, a bot would run up and start attacking. They are so prevalent in L2 that it literally makes the game near impossible to play at times. We'd have to spend 15 minutes sometimes just clearing a room out before we could start leveling in a Cat/Necro. None of that should ever happen.
And that they are right under people's noses makes it even more frustrating that NC does so little about it. I was paying my $14 or whatever a month to play the game legitimately... I shouldn't have had to compete with a couple dozen (literally) computer controlled bots for mobs in an area that, under normal circumstances, would have more than enough for several people.
Yet, I'd report them, and week after week they were still there.
That said, even in games without instancing to provide them "cover", I've never seen so many bots, as I have in L2. Nor have I ever experienced interference from them in any other game as I did in L2.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The economy grind has very little to do with killing monsters. You kill mobs to get initial money, you need to play the market to afford the expensive as hell gear. The point is, you don't make sufficient money killing mobs period, even if you hunt seal stones and play the manor, you may, if you're lucky afford B or C grade, but forget affording A grade that way unless you want to wait a ridiculous amount of months.
Also, L2 bot problem is a shame on NCsoft. Yes, WoW has more bots, but not in front of your face. The fact that L2 bots are all in your face makes their bullshit even worse.
Bots in instanced-games are like having zits on your back, bots in Lineage 2 is like having zits all over your face. Which one is worse?
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I think everyone in this discussion is at least familiar with Lineage 2. But thanks for bringing us up too speed on that.
However, by being tough do you mean they are actually banning them? are there less on your server? We all know the grind is considerable, and the only way you will get decent gear right off the bat is to purchase Adena, but most of us in this discussion are, to use a WoW term "End Game" already so that skind of a moot point right now.
I wont reply to this post again, the guy who asked me the question: If I thought there were any MMO"s out there worth playing, please feel free to drop me an e-mail here and I will answer all your questions to the best of my ability.
As usualy this thread has digressed into something it never should have been. You can side trakc a thread as much as you want, but for heavens sake dont curse, or the mods wil warn you. priceless. frigign mods, power hungry little geeks cant wait to ban someone, well here your perfect excuse, worthless.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
well the game is still broken in so many things...
botting. yere sure every mmorpg has bots but this game is just crawling with em, and they rarly ban any bots.
the only reason is to get legal players to play so botters wont just lvl to 80, not having anything to fight then bots before lvl 80...
yere if you have wars lots off 75+ characters will come to 50+ lvling spots and destroy you funny.
not to mention cheating, since everyone uses walker they can spot you miles away before you get to see em in pvp, and all the zoomhack
farmers. well atm i play on franz servers and they almost on all hunting grounds making it much slower for you to lvl, there also crawling in catacombs and if you take one of the bot groups rooms, you get trained quickly after and then killede bye bot procteres if you defend yourself .
ecomnoys. are broken, you can't get a B weapon repice on your own before you end up outlvling the mob, but off course you can get your friends to help you, but then your friend wont get B weapon repices, its sad but farmers are needed.
pvp. is broken, they's always been 1 good class every cronichle or patch they nerf something and make something else overpowered so they can destroy a full group on they own lvl. Just a example with full buffs some classes atm as dagger's can one hit tank's and almost any other classes, archers can 1 hit all robe character's
support. is lame, they ban you for credit card trouble's and swearing if you do it enof.
not to mention all the places in L2 where all computers freeze's at for sevral seconds but your character still moves along so when you get back a aggresive mob has beaten you to death, i died at least 200 times trough my l2 playtime as that and they wont return the exp losses...
theys also water bugs if you got a agro mob on you and your going down a catacomb's water you end up falling trough the water landing on 1 hp so the agro mob will kill you... they won't return that exp either at least i haven't died like that many times
luck. luck plays a hughe role in this game, so many will end up overenchating or useing 60% repices to craft stuff, and if your unlucky you lose hours off work while others gain so much, for nothing.. yere yere they's 100% repices but 60% are so much cheaper
ebaying. well manor is a good way to earn cash, on some server's the only problems is there never is enof seeds for everyone, heck even farmers use em probly the reason, and working the market is kinda bullshit cause you need money to earn money so either you get a friend to help you at the start or you ebay a starting ammount cash...
lvling with out ss or sps to save enof adena's wont help either you still end up with crappy gear and you lvl very slowly, and if you want to be good at pvp you most likely have to ebay, since gear means a lot
and yes top gear means so much for your lvling speed, a ebayer will lvl about 5 times faster then someone who dosen't ebay or had any help with gear, and that ends up in a lot in the end when some legit player played for 5 months a ebayer can do it all in 1 month or less...
soloing. soloing is hard the herbs helps but it still sucks to solo, and your gear counts a lot so most useses buff bots, many players has buff bots since it takes forever to lvl without, or makes em a lot better at pvp. but a lot players that wanna play support classes suffers from this and wont get party's...
most player that speaks postive about lineage2 without mentiong the bad points of l2 is blind or selfish.
selfish because they wan't more players to kill on they botted toons or whatever...
Gameloading, The economy grind has very little to do with killing monsters. You kill mobs to get initial money, you need to play the market to afford the expensive as hell gear. The point is, you don't make sufficient money killing mobs period, even if you hunt seal stones and play the manor, you may, if you're lucky afford B or C grade, but forget affording A grade that way unless you want to wait a ridiculous amount of months. Also, L2 bot problem is a shame on NCsoft. Yes, WoW has more bots, but not in front of your face. The fact that L2 bots are all in your face makes their bullshit even worse. Bots in instanced-games are like having zits on your back, bots in Lineage 2 is like having zits all over your face. Which one is worse? Cryomatrix
You still don't understand my post. To play the market, you will need goods to sell, and you get those goods by killing mobs, thats how it works
It may be worse in Lineage that bots are in your face, I prefer that over instanced gameplay any day of the week..
this game still the bot riddled exploit fest it alwasy has been? or did NCSoft finally pull their collective heads out and fix this abortion?
What a wonderful, well writen and insightful post. No L2 is still the only MMO with bots. No other game has them. You should really try one of the pure games listed on the left there. Any one of them is clean, wholesome and bot free.
I know this may be a shock after all you did say you played L2 from OPEN BETA UNTIL 2 MONTHS AGO so you might not be aware of the current state of all the other wonderful games out there.
2 months ago? Miss it so soon? Say/troll/spit your hate but the real reason you are here is you are looking for an excuse to return.
Welcome back
(you may not like old torass but you know I'm right...again)
I see where the misunderstanding is from. The definition of playing the market in my opinion is you have, let's say 50m adena, and you buy low and sell high and increase that 50m to 100m without ever leaving town.
I went from 40m net worth to 400m in 3-4 months by buying low/selling high. I didnt' make money by finding drops, or collecting mats, or getting raid boss loot. Raid boss loot was maybe 30-40m of my 400m net worth. The materials and crap that i picked up from the xp grind was neutralized by the cost of soulshots/potions etc. The money I used to buy my gear was made by buying low and selling high in the Giran Market. It has nothing to do with the XP Grind itself. One example was searching the Giran market for hours to buy bones at 700 and to sell them a few days later at 750. I made 700k profit. LOL. ANother example was to spend 8m on AA at 2a apiece, and then I sold it overnight at 3 m apiece for 4m profit. That is playing the market. Other than Overenchanting which is gambling, there's no reliable way to make money other than crafting and raiding 24/7,
I'll say it again, you do not make money by XP grinding, correction, you make a little money by manor/seven signs, but it is not enough to buy the gear. Hence, the need for economy grind in addition to the xp grind. I'm not so sure you played the game or if you played it legitimately, but in my experience playing the game legitimately, you need to do an economy grind. The labor and toil that I went through to afford my A grade legitimately makes me think that the number of people that ebay in Lineage 2 is ridiculously high compared to other games.
I made a thread, have you ever ebayed, a month ago, 90 people voted, 30% said yes, 10% they would if needed, and 60% said no. This of course isn't the most accurate trial, but I wouldn't completely discount it either. This includes players from WoW, in which they're no economic grind whatsoever to afford your gear, i hit lvl 60, i had half blue/green items, i raped people in PvP (ganks), you didn't need to play any economy or anything. Lineage 2, you do just to survive.
In conclusion,
Lineage 2 = 2 grinds. xp and economy. economy grind has nothing to do with killing mobs. The thing is most people circumvent the economy grind in L2.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Gameloading, The economy grind has very little to do with killing monsters. You kill mobs to get initial money, you need to play the market to afford the expensive as hell gear. The point is, you don't make sufficient money killing mobs period, even if you hunt seal stones and play the manor, you may, if you're lucky afford B or C grade, but forget affording A grade that way unless you want to wait a ridiculous amount of months. Also, L2 bot problem is a shame on NCsoft. Yes, WoW has more bots, but not in front of your face. The fact that L2 bots are all in your face makes their bullshit even worse. Bots in instanced-games are like having zits on your back, bots in Lineage 2 is like having zits all over your face. Which one is worse? Cryomatrix
You still don't understand my post. To play the market, you will need goods to sell, and you get those goods by killing mobs, thats how it works
It may be worse in Lineage that bots are in your face, I prefer that over instanced gameplay any day of the week..
You won't get far with the economy if you play and gain wealth by killing mobs and trying to sell it on the market. The only way you get enough money for 60+ is playing the market or ebaying. I rather prefer the first option, i hate those that cheat their way up in my games.
really, l2 is NOT that horrible of a game like u all say... after playing it for around 3 years, i was finally able to force myself to quit the game. it was pretty addictive IMO. and during the holidays i been trying to find a new mmo to play, tried daoc, wow, and other popular mmos out there but have yet to find any mmo better than l2...
L2 is a game thats focused on clans and politics IMO, which u don't get from other MMOs out there. Basically, u join a clan, become friends, ally up with other clans, then fight another clan/alliance, and trash talk on the forums. Thats what l2's really all about. If u can't take trash talk, don't play this game. If u don't like pvp, don't play this game. If you are a giant carebear who cry over a death, don't play this game. However, if u love politics, love trash talking, love DRAMA, then Lineage2 is probably the best MMO out there for you.
I know u can get clans/alliances in every MMO out there, but l2 is really something different... People know each other in the game. i mean if u see a name u can tell right away "oh hes that fag from enemy clan, he can't really pvp, but talk alot of trash, he usualy does this and that". Where as in some of the other games i tried, usualy when u see another player on ur server u just think to urself "oh hes random player A, and that guys random player B". You can put a personality behind their toons, because theres so much politics and drama in this game.
Now moving on to the problems of this game. Yes there are alot of bots, and economy is farmer/bot based. For example, if u want to craft a weapon and needs 100 ironores, u are probably gonna buy it off some farmer who got those items through botting. It really didn't bother me that much tho. We had more than enough players on the server for our daily PVPs, bots/farmers can't really do anything to effect high lvl players. so yea... not that big of a deal IMO.
When i lvled up my first toon however, the game was full of chinese farmers who actually played in order to farm for adena to sell. Now like people said, they formed clans and alliances to fight other players. They would train and gank you if u tried to take their hunting places. But thats all part of the game really. People try to gank you, you gather up ur friends and fight back. It was alot of fun fighting these farmers, far from being annoying or effecting my game experince. The only reason i can think of that people cry about farmers is because they are fking giant carebears who's scared to die. Big sad face to u if u are one of these people, don't ever come close to this game.
Grind. The quest that goes on forever and ever is the grind for exp and money. Every new chronicle there are gonna be new gears and higher lvl limit put into this game... But really, if u got a good clan, none of these are problems. When i first started off however, it was really a pain. I spend about nearly a year getting my first character to 60. 2 reasons, 1 it was a melee class, 2 it was a pain for new players to start off. However, as soon as i joined a good clan, i got from 60 to 72 in a few month. And later when i rerolled, i got my archer from 1-73 in about 4 month. So if u have a really organised clan who know what they are doing, lvling is not that big of a deal. (but u have to consider that i did have no life and played at least 8 hours a day on weekdays and about 12 hours a day on weekends lol..)
the money grind is pretty much the same thing. first character went through alot of trouble getting money/gear. I still remenber how i used to run between gludio and dion and played the market when i was 20-30. It wasn't that bad really.. Maybe cuz i am a stingy guy and manages my money carefully, i didn't find that much trouble gearing myself with mid C grade at lvl40 even after dropping a weapon worth of 3mil (which is ALOT OF MONEY to a new lvl40 player back in prelude). And after that i got myself a decent clan who helped me with mats that i needed to craft most of my gears. Later,t me and my clan members joined the strongest clan on the server, which by the way, was probably the FIRST clan in NA that started to do organised daily raids (yea.. we started in mid c2, when raidbosses didn't even drop shit). Gears/adena was never a problem after that...
But yea, i must say, the grind was a pain in the ass. I remenber when i was lvling my archer i used to do everything infront of my computer... And just give u an idea about how bad the grind is:
take a crazy exp group, archers with top gear + bd/sws + healer/sleeper
put them in the hardest place u could find back in c3, dvc portal
and i believe i got about 2% exp per hour at lvl72
yea.. pretty sad IMO. Now u gotta remenber, everytime u die in a pvp/pve, u lose around 3-4%. Yep, 2 hours gone for 1 death.
I know they changed alot of stuff since c3... clan wars making u lose less exp, better hunting places etc.. but the grind still sucks at high lvls... even a 1% lose from clan war still means alot to my lvl78 friends who still play the game...
i dunno why i have written so much probably cuz i can't sleep LOL but yea... if u like drama/politics, have alot of free time on ur hand, and a hardcore pvper, l2 should be the game for u. BTW if u have spare cash thats a big plus, as far as i know 95% of the people on the server i used to play have ebayed adena at some point.
oh and did i forgot to mention, in L2, always play A RANGED CHARACTER. archer/mage take ur pick, as long as its ranged.
Name one mmorpg game that dosent have bots/exploiters/farmers?
You cant have a MMORPG without them.
IF u ignore them then the game rox.
Its like saying does united states have any murderers in it or did the government get rid of them.
Evry country has does bad people, like any game that has ebeyer/bots/exploiters/farmers.
How does botting and farmers equate to murders in America? Interesting analysis. Actually, in WoW, there are farmers, however not as "productive" as you might find in L2. GM's are very quick to respond to these folks and their bots. My guild as well as several others in the server I'm on have seen GM's actively go after these "hoods". Usually doesn't take very long for response and or action taken. I actually haven't seen a bot or gold farmer in several weeks to be honest.
Cheers!
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
"L2 is a game thats focused on clans and politics IMO, which u don't get from other MMOs out there. Basically, u join a clan, become friends, ally up with other clans, then fight another clan/alliance, and trash talk on the forums. Thats what l2's really all about. If u can't take trash talk, don't play this game. If u don't like pvp, don't play this game. If you are a giant carebear who cry over a death, don't play this game. However, if u love politics, love trash talking, love DRAMA, then Lineage2 is probably the best MMO out there for you."
Yep, I have to agree there. Quite a bit of .. uhm.."politics"..LOL! Actually the trash talking is more what you can expect for the most part. Very juvenile at best. Used to be you could find clans that actually roleplayed. Wow! what a concept. Roleplaying in an mmoRg. Oh well, cest la vie!
Run-away economics...lack of viable crafting and extremely boring castle seiging will eventually bring L2 down in the US. Obiviously, 2007 shall bring several new MMO's and let's just see what evolves from a tired. tired concept from Korea. After all NCSoft is coming with a new MMO, Aion. Hmmmm.. might just be the end of times for North American popularity of L2. Nope, won't die just dwindle to the point that only the "fat-cat" clans will be left and not much to do but "gank" each other.
Bottoms up!
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
sry but L2 isnt piece of crap , ye the grind is like hell but in which game it isnt??? And L2 got the most brutal and hardcore pvp .
Seriously, it doesn't have the most brutal and hardcore PvP. Eve's PvP is more hardcore and brutal as you lose everything and you can even lose skills.
Plus, diablo 2 isnt' an MMO but if you played that on hardcore mode and dueled like i used to then it makes L2 PvP look wimpy.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Comments
Nah... I try to stay away from places like that.
As far as not playing L2, well, if you are not having fun, you are not having fun. No reason to put yourself through all the work to end up in a place where you don't want to be.
Man i'm need new places to eat. Basically, I live alone and I don't cook, so i eat out everyday and my choices in my mind are this.
1. cereal from the convenient store where all the hobos/bums hang out
2. ABC pizza
3. Il Panino
4. Hong Kong
5. Cinderella
I need new places, got any suggestions?
CryomatrixYou can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Gameloading,
I disagree with one point you make.
You do not make money by leveling or gaining xp. You do gain money, but the money you make is not congruent to the money you need to purchase your equipment. If you did nothing but manor and seven signs and leveled up, I don't think you would make enough money.
You, for sure would not be able to afford top D grade. I remember I used soulshots and leveled up and saved my money as much as possible and 1-23 i had only 170k adena.
If you were to let's say, have top D grade at lvl 20, by the time you hit lvl 40, doing manor and seven signs, I'm not so sure you will have enough money for top C grade. The weapon alone runs you 13m. Then again this is top C. If you are able to make enough money just by xping, it will be tougher to have enough money for B grade even after selling your C grade. Lvl 40 to 52 is relatively quick.
A top B weapon will run you 25m, with top B gear roughly another 25m. That's 50m total and your C grade was worth roughly 20m to begin, so by leveling from 40-52, if you're lucky, you may be able afford it. Don't even dream of affording A grade by lvl 61. A grade is roughly 200m. No way, just by playing manor/seven signs will you be able to afford A grade, it will not happen.
In reality, some classes lose money by xping. I know that at lvl 69-70, I made enough money off of drops, to sustain my soulshot, potion, scroll use. I'm not sure if I gained or if I lost money, but I was able to sustain leveling just by the drops, but no way could I afford the 600m worth of gear that I had on just by leveling. You can't do it. You will never make enough money in Lineage 2 if you don't play the market. Playing the market takes time. I used to check prices before i went to work, after i came back from work and before I went to bed. I'd buy low, sell high during work and that's how I made my money.
Overall, i'm not sure if you've played L2 , but you will not make enough money just by leveling, it will not happen, the profit is too low. You have to sacrifice the XP grind to do the money grind.
You cannot rely on drops, because they are too few and far between. In the end, other games do have ridiculous grinds, WoW has a ridiculous grind to get epic gear but then again, if you want the best of the best you have to grind like crazy in any game (even diablo 2). But in Lineage 2, if you want to just "compete" it requires a difficult grind. You can compete in WoW just by leveling to 60 and not even bothering to play the market.
I'm not so far into EVE, either way, I know in about 30 days i'll be able to fly a capital ship (freighter), I'll only be roughly 950m in-game currency away. Of course, i could get it, just by trading my Lineage 2 adena. It would be like 5 adena per 1 EVE currency
. I'm pushing 800m in adena 
.
If you're wondering how I got 800m adena, some dude got his account hacked, the guy who hacked his account sold me roughly 800m worth of gear for 200m
. I sold 80% of the gear for 750m. I found out later it was hacked, i did reimubrse the person who got hacked roughly 250m net worth back.
Cryo-"butthurt over L2"-matrix
Hey Torak,
If I were to come back to Lineage 2, it would be for one reason. I'd like to form a group of players that would play together and the goal of the group was to be 100% self-sufficient. Essentially, this group would spoil/craft their own gear, nothing is bought from players, only NPC stores. It's creatiing a microcosm of Lineage 2 in which it was actually 100% legit where you ddin't have cheaters and botters. Thus teamwork and rationing and choosing who gets to wear what with limited resources would be the fun of the game. I played L2 for the challenge of affording my A grade legitimately, but this woudl be a whole new challenge. We could even do it on the bot server, ahh . . I mean Franz.
Or we could do it modified, in which we could have a friend use a warsmith to craft crap for us as long as we found the recipe. The only reason to do this is because warsmiths are Boring. We could create a blog and have fun with it
. That's the only way I'll come back.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Love how people use subscription numbers to prove how smart they think they are. Not to mention the special ed camp behind them saying,"well spoken, butthurt(wtf homo?),or /signed". 40,000 accounts in a weeks time created using chinese ip for the trial accounts only to have NcSoft say they finally broke 100k users. 40,000 accounts spammed mmorpg just to bot.
Anyone that was there at the beginning of Franz can tell what type of company NcSoft aka CNSoft really is. How many times have they changed rules that in the long run only helped bots.. They now train you with no fear of losing items because exp doesn't matter to them. Piss off l2 fanbois, the only thing good about the game are the sieges which happen all to often /sarcasimoff
than "your a lineage2 basement living, roleplay lightning bolt throwing
panty waste mamas boy" only bores me.
My opinion is the game is boring unless your at sieges. The maker of
walker can be traced back to NcSoft with paperwork, how is that
opinion? How was the post from the Admin on this forum about the issues with the trial keys opinion? Get your FACTS straight before you call me out. Please if you reply explain why NcSoft doesn't return items or adena to people that had their accounts "hacked" or won't even give up the ip that accessed the account without a court order. If you do maybe it will save the few on the fence with this game.
You say that its your opinion, then actually post it like an opinion instead of acting like its fact. I wasn't even refering to your little bot issue. If you actually bothered to read my post before you mouth off, you will see that I didn't even adress the bot issue.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm curious Hatefull,
Is there a game that is out now that you are playing and also think is good? Or do you feel that most of the current offerings are pretty much not worth it?
Outstanding question, and one I feel compelled to answer. No, not really, allow me to digress a bit please.
I started off gaming with Star Wars galaxies. I started in BETA and continued all the way until they completely ruined it. I had a pre-pub 9 Jedi and all that, so when they "dumbed down" the game so everyone could start as that, I obviously left.
Not wanting to limit myself I started playing L2, and was into the for quite awhile as well (from closed beta). However barring its beautifull art work, (best in games period at this point imo) that grind is just impossible, and when you finally max out...you get to do it again...2 more times, so it got old ma dn then for the other reasons I stated before. Anyway, I lost interest. One thing I forgot to mention, I love that in L2 you can de-level, it makes it so maxing out your level is not a guarantee, that is one element of that game I think should be in ALL PvP based MMORPG's.
I never limit mysefl to just one game, I test, and play several games, some seriously (WoW is pretty serious right now as far as time spent playing) and some not so much (GW, beta tested that, and played some live, just hate it, but its free so I see the appeal).
The simple answer is no, I see nothing that I would recommend to anyone, however, when W.A.R releases, (War Hammer Online) I feel that this game will be the MMORPG that will finally topple all others (Genre specific of course).
But currently its all re-packaged same thing over and over, like I stated above I am waiting on WAR to hit, if that turns out to be a waste that will probably but a bullet in the head of my gaming hobby, most games out now just bore me into sleep.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level. haha, I see I messed up my post a little. What I meant was that Lineage 2 indeed is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, online Lineage 1 and World of Warcraft have more. Also, I really doubt Lineage 2 really has any more botters then other mmorpg's. There are a few key diffrences. the most important one is that it makes none use of instancing. to gain money in most MMORPG's, your best off doing instances. These aren't avaible in Lineage 2, hence you see them EVERYWHERE.
Wait a sec... So you're saying first that L2 is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers... with the only 2 other MMOs ahead of it, including Lineage 1 and 2? Wait... So you're saying L2 takes up two of the three largest MMO slots all by itself? One of the only MMOs with a population larger than Lineage 2 is... Lineage 2?
... the hell?
Also, in terms of subscribers, you have to keep in mind that many players have at least 2 accounts - one to play, and one to keep shops up all the time. Some I've known have as many as 3 or 4 accounts. Then you have to take into consideration the number of accounts for botters/RMT... that's certainly no small figure. So, while the game does have many, many players... if we're talking main characters and non-RMT, I think the number drops considerably.
That said, to the people using the whole "every mmo has botters" as a way to defend the abomination that is Lineage 2 in that regard... let's try using some perspective here, shall we?
Yes, all MMOs suffer from RMT to some degree. You are 1000% correct in that comment.
The distinction here, however, is that Lineage 2 is, by far, the worst of the lot - or damn close to it. And many other MMO companies do a *damn* better job of fighting it than they are. Heck, doing anything at all is usually better than what NC does.
I alone have played about 27 different MMOs to date, some on a long-term basis, some on a trial basis. Lineage 2 is, hands-down, the absolute *worst* when it comes to botters/RMT farmers - by a long shot. It is so common in that game that they do it right under the GMs noses, and don't even try to hide it. Many players are convinced that NCSoft is on the take and that's why they do nothing about it, other than these little token bannings once in a while. I played the game for over a year straight, and this was the case the entire time.
I would bet money that I could log into any of the servers right now, create a character.. say.. a Dark Elf.. and as soon as I enter the Dark Elven Village, there would be the usual train of RMT farmers.. all right out in the open, wearing the same gear, same character model, repeating the same exact pre-set pattern. I guarantee, too, that if I head out to the swamps, they'd be covering the countryside like a colony of ant invading a picnic, all their non-names floating over their heads advertising "Hello! I'm a bot!". And that's only in and around DEV. I'm sure it's the same on Talking Island or around the Dwarven or Orc areas as well, because I've seen it there, too. Don't even get me started on the Cats/Necros... it was routine to have to clear out a room of them before you could effectively start partying. When I was playing, I reported a certain group of them at least once a week for 4 weeks... NC didn't do anything about it. Finally, they banned them.. they were gone for, oh... 3 days... and then they were back at it again.
On the server I was on, there was a group of RMTers who got so bold that they started blocking access to Baium altogether. Even if you only had to get to him for a quest.. you had to pay them. If you didn't and tried getting to him anyway, they'd PK you on the spot. That's what I call bold. It says something when in every other game, botters/rmt farmers try to keep their activities low-profile... yet in Lineage 2 it's as though they want to call attention to it.
Lineage 2 is infamous in the MMO community as having the absolute most rampant and unfettered botter/rmt problem of pretty much all MMOs out there. It didn't earn that reputation for nothing.
So, saying "all games have it" is a very weak defense of the game... Lineage II takes it to a whole other level. haha, I see I messed up my post a little. What I meant was that Lineage 2 indeed is the 3rd biggest mmorpg in terms of subscribers, online Lineage 1 and World of Warcraft have more. Also, I really doubt Lineage 2 really has any more botters then other mmorpg's. There are a few key diffrences. the most important one is that it makes none use of instancing. to gain money in most MMORPG's, your best off doing instances. These aren't avaible in Lineage 2, hence you see them EVERYWHERE.
See, but that's just it. They are everywhere. And they swarm over areas that legit players need to hunt in for quests and the like. My example of the swamps area is based on actual events. I was doing a quest out there and it was nearly impossible to finish the quest because everywhere I looked, there were bots - all dwarves, with the same exact face/hair, same exact gear, same exact weapons... I'd go for a mob and, without fail, at least one - sometimes more than one - would be going for the same mob. By the time I'd get to them, they were taken. Or, in the middle of me fighting them, a bot would run up and start attacking. They are so prevalent in L2 that it literally makes the game near impossible to play at times. We'd have to spend 15 minutes sometimes just clearing a room out before we could start leveling in a Cat/Necro. None of that should ever happen.
And that they are right under people's noses makes it even more frustrating that NC does so little about it. I was paying my $14 or whatever a month to play the game legitimately... I shouldn't have had to compete with a couple dozen (literally) computer controlled bots for mobs in an area that, under normal circumstances, would have more than enough for several people.
Yet, I'd report them, and week after week they were still there.
That said, even in games without instancing to provide them "cover", I've never seen so many bots, as I have in L2. Nor have I ever experienced interference from them in any other game as I did in L2.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Gameloading,
The economy grind has very little to do with killing monsters. You kill mobs to get initial money, you need to play the market to afford the expensive as hell gear. The point is, you don't make sufficient money killing mobs period, even if you hunt seal stones and play the manor, you may, if you're lucky afford B or C grade, but forget affording A grade that way unless you want to wait a ridiculous amount of months.
Also, L2 bot problem is a shame on NCsoft. Yes, WoW has more bots, but not in front of your face. The fact that L2 bots are all in your face makes their bullshit even worse.
Bots in instanced-games are like having zits on your back, bots in Lineage 2 is like having zits all over your face. Which one is worse?
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
There is tons of grind, so if grind really bothers you and it bothers you not to reach the best right away then you may not like L2.
You have to find your niche in the world of Aden, along with the correct group of people to hang with.
I think everyone in this discussion is at least familiar with Lineage 2. But thanks for bringing us up too speed on that.
However, by being tough do you mean they are actually banning them? are there less on your server? We all know the grind is considerable, and the only way you will get decent gear right off the bat is to purchase Adena, but most of us in this discussion are, to use a WoW term "End Game" already so that skind of a moot point right now.
I wont reply to this post again, the guy who asked me the question: If I thought there were any MMO"s out there worth playing, please feel free to drop me an e-mail here and I will answer all your questions to the best of my ability.
As usualy this thread has digressed into something it never should have been. You can side trakc a thread as much as you want, but for heavens sake dont curse, or the mods wil warn you. priceless. frigign mods, power hungry little geeks cant wait to ban someone, well here your perfect excuse, worthless.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
well the game is still broken in so many things...
botting. yere sure every mmorpg has bots but this game is just crawling with em, and they rarly ban any bots.
the only reason is to get legal players to play so botters wont just lvl to 80, not having anything to fight then bots before lvl 80...
yere if you have wars lots off 75+ characters will come to 50+ lvling spots and destroy you funny.
not to mention cheating, since everyone uses walker they can spot you miles away before you get to see em in pvp, and all the zoomhack
farmers. well atm i play on franz servers and they almost on all hunting grounds making it much slower for you to lvl, there also crawling in catacombs and if you take one of the bot groups rooms, you get trained quickly after and then killede bye bot procteres if you defend yourself .
ecomnoys. are broken, you can't get a B weapon repice on your own before you end up outlvling the mob, but off course you can get your friends to help you, but then your friend wont get B weapon repices, its sad but farmers are needed.
pvp. is broken, they's always been 1 good class every cronichle or patch they nerf something and make something else overpowered so they can destroy a full group on they own lvl. Just a example with full buffs some classes atm as dagger's can one hit tank's and almost any other classes, archers can 1 hit all robe character's
support. is lame, they ban you for credit card trouble's and swearing if you do it enof.
not to mention all the places in L2 where all computers freeze's at for sevral seconds but your character still moves along so when you get back a aggresive mob has beaten you to death, i died at least 200 times trough my l2 playtime as that and they wont return the exp losses...
theys also water bugs if you got a agro mob on you and your going down a catacomb's water you end up falling trough the water landing on 1 hp so the agro mob will kill you... they won't return that exp either at least i haven't died like that many times
luck. luck plays a hughe role in this game, so many will end up overenchating or useing 60% repices to craft stuff, and if your unlucky you lose hours off work while others gain so much, for nothing.. yere yere they's 100% repices but 60% are so much cheaper
ebaying. well manor is a good way to earn cash, on some server's the only problems is there never is enof seeds for everyone, heck even farmers use em probly the reason, and working the market is kinda bullshit cause you need money to earn money so either you get a friend to help you at the start or you ebay a starting ammount cash...
lvling with out ss or sps to save enof adena's wont help either you still end up with crappy gear and you lvl very slowly, and if you want to be good at pvp you most likely have to ebay, since gear means a lot
and yes top gear means so much for your lvling speed, a ebayer will lvl about 5 times faster then someone who dosen't ebay or had any help with gear, and that ends up in a lot in the end when some legit player played for 5 months a ebayer can do it all in 1 month or less...
soloing. soloing is hard the herbs helps but it still sucks to solo, and your gear counts a lot so most useses buff bots, many players has buff bots since it takes forever to lvl without, or makes em a lot better at pvp. but a lot players that wanna play support classes suffers from this and wont get party's...
most player that speaks postive about lineage2 without mentiong the bad points of l2 is blind or selfish.
selfish because they wan't more players to kill on they botted toons or whatever...
blind you can't see well when your a retard...
oh yere i still play the game
It may be worse in Lineage that bots are in your face, I prefer that over instanced gameplay any day of the week..
What a wonderful, well writen and insightful post. No L2 is still the only MMO with bots. No other game has them. You should really try one of the pure games listed on the left there. Any one of them is clean, wholesome and bot free.
I know this may be a shock after all you did say you played L2 from OPEN BETA UNTIL 2 MONTHS AGO so you might not be aware of the current state of all the other wonderful games out there.
2 months ago? Miss it so soon? Say/troll/spit your hate but the real reason you are here is you are looking for an excuse to return.
Welcome back
(you may not like old torass but you know I'm right...again)
Excellent post!
Gameloading,
I see where the misunderstanding is from. The definition of playing the market in my opinion is you have, let's say 50m adena, and you buy low and sell high and increase that 50m to 100m without ever leaving town.
I went from 40m net worth to 400m in 3-4 months by buying low/selling high. I didnt' make money by finding drops, or collecting mats, or getting raid boss loot. Raid boss loot was maybe 30-40m of my 400m net worth. The materials and crap that i picked up from the xp grind was neutralized by the cost of soulshots/potions etc. The money I used to buy my gear was made by buying low and selling high in the Giran Market. It has nothing to do with the XP Grind itself. One example was searching the Giran market for hours to buy bones at 700 and to sell them a few days later at 750. I made 700k profit. LOL. ANother example was to spend 8m on AA at 2a apiece, and then I sold it overnight at 3 m apiece for 4m profit. That is playing the market. Other than Overenchanting which is gambling, there's no reliable way to make money other than crafting and raiding 24/7,
I'll say it again, you do not make money by XP grinding, correction, you make a little money by manor/seven signs, but it is not enough to buy the gear. Hence, the need for economy grind in addition to the xp grind. I'm not so sure you played the game or if you played it legitimately, but in my experience playing the game legitimately, you need to do an economy grind. The labor and toil that I went through to afford my A grade legitimately makes me think that the number of people that ebay in Lineage 2 is ridiculously high compared to other games.
I made a thread, have you ever ebayed, a month ago, 90 people voted, 30% said yes, 10% they would if needed, and 60% said no. This of course isn't the most accurate trial, but I wouldn't completely discount it either. This includes players from WoW, in which they're no economic grind whatsoever to afford your gear, i hit lvl 60, i had half blue/green items, i raped people in PvP (ganks), you didn't need to play any economy or anything. Lineage 2, you do just to survive.
In conclusion,
Lineage 2 = 2 grinds. xp and economy. economy grind has nothing to do with killing mobs. The thing is most people circumvent the economy grind in L2.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
It may be worse in Lineage that bots are in your face, I prefer that over instanced gameplay any day of the week..
You won't get far with the economy if you play and gain wealth by killing mobs and trying to sell it on the market. The only way you get enough money for 60+ is playing the market or ebaying. I rather prefer the first option, i hate those that cheat their way up in my games.
L2 is a game thats focused on clans and politics IMO, which u don't get from other MMOs out there. Basically, u join a clan, become friends, ally up with other clans, then fight another clan/alliance, and trash talk on the forums. Thats what l2's really all about. If u can't take trash talk, don't play this game. If u don't like pvp, don't play this game. If you are a giant carebear who cry over a death, don't play this game. However, if u love politics, love trash talking, love DRAMA, then Lineage2 is probably the best MMO out there for you.
I know u can get clans/alliances in every MMO out there, but l2 is really something different... People know each other in the game. i mean if u see a name u can tell right away "oh hes that fag from enemy clan, he can't really pvp, but talk alot of trash, he usualy does this and that". Where as in some of the other games i tried, usualy when u see another player on ur server u just think to urself "oh hes random player A, and that guys random player B". You can put a personality behind their toons, because theres so much politics and drama in this game.
Now moving on to the problems of this game. Yes there are alot of bots, and economy is farmer/bot based. For example, if u want to craft a weapon and needs 100 ironores, u are probably gonna buy it off some farmer who got those items through botting. It really didn't bother me that much tho. We had more than enough players on the server for our daily PVPs, bots/farmers can't really do anything to effect high lvl players. so yea... not that big of a deal IMO.
When i lvled up my first toon however, the game was full of chinese farmers who actually played in order to farm for adena to sell. Now like people said, they formed clans and alliances to fight other players. They would train and gank you if u tried to take their hunting places. But thats all part of the game really. People try to gank you, you gather up ur friends and fight back. It was alot of fun fighting these farmers, far from being annoying or effecting my game experince. The only reason i can think of that people cry about farmers is because they are fking giant carebears who's scared to die. Big sad face to u if u are one of these people, don't ever come close to this game.
Grind. The quest that goes on forever and ever is the grind for exp and money. Every new chronicle there are gonna be new gears and higher lvl limit put into this game... But really, if u got a good clan, none of these are problems. When i first started off however, it was really a pain. I spend about nearly a year getting my first character to 60. 2 reasons, 1 it was a melee class, 2 it was a pain for new players to start off. However, as soon as i joined a good clan, i got from 60 to 72 in a few month. And later when i rerolled, i got my archer from 1-73 in about 4 month. So if u have a really organised clan who know what they are doing, lvling is not that big of a deal. (but u have to consider that i did have no life and played at least 8 hours a day on weekdays and about 12 hours a day on weekends lol..)
the money grind is pretty much the same thing. first character went through alot of trouble getting money/gear. I still remenber how i used to run between gludio and dion and played the market when i was 20-30. It wasn't that bad really.. Maybe cuz i am a stingy guy and manages my money carefully, i didn't find that much trouble gearing myself with mid C grade at lvl40 even after dropping a weapon worth of 3mil (which is ALOT OF MONEY to a new lvl40 player back in prelude). And after that i got myself a decent clan who helped me with mats that i needed to craft most of my gears. Later,t me and my clan members joined the strongest clan on the server, which by the way, was probably the FIRST clan in NA that started to do organised daily raids (yea.. we started in mid c2, when raidbosses didn't even drop shit). Gears/adena was never a problem after that...
But yea, i must say, the grind was a pain in the ass. I remenber when i was lvling my archer i used to do everything infront of my computer... And just give u an idea about how bad the grind is:
take a crazy exp group, archers with top gear + bd/sws + healer/sleeper
put them in the hardest place u could find back in c3, dvc portal
and i believe i got about 2% exp per hour at lvl72
yea.. pretty sad IMO. Now u gotta remenber, everytime u die in a pvp/pve, u lose around 3-4%. Yep, 2 hours gone for 1 death.
I know they changed alot of stuff since c3... clan wars making u lose less exp, better hunting places etc.. but the grind still sucks at high lvls... even a 1% lose from clan war still means alot to my lvl78 friends who still play the game...
i dunno why i have written so much probably cuz i can't sleep LOL but yea... if u like drama/politics, have alot of free time on ur hand, and a hardcore pvper, l2 should be the game for u. BTW if u have spare cash thats a big plus, as far as i know 95% of the people on the server i used to play have ebayed adena at some point.
oh and did i forgot to mention, in L2, always play A RANGED CHARACTER. archer/mage take ur pick, as long as its ranged.
Cheers!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Yep, I have to agree there. Quite a bit of .. uhm.."politics"..LOL! Actually the trash talking is more what you can expect for the most part. Very juvenile at best. Used to be you could find clans that actually roleplayed. Wow! what a concept. Roleplaying in an mmoRg. Oh well, cest la vie!
Run-away economics...lack of viable crafting and extremely boring castle seiging will eventually bring L2 down in the US. Obiviously, 2007 shall bring several new MMO's and let's just see what evolves from a tired. tired concept from Korea. After all NCSoft is coming with a new MMO, Aion. Hmmmm.. might just be the end of times for North American popularity of L2. Nope, won't die just dwindle to the point that only the "fat-cat" clans will be left and not much to do but "gank" each other.
Bottoms up!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
sry but L2 isnt piece of crap , ye the grind is like hell but in which game it isnt???
And L2 got the most brutal and hardcore pvp .
2Fast4you
Seriously, it doesn't have the most brutal and hardcore PvP. Eve's PvP is more hardcore and brutal as you lose everything and you can even lose skills.
Plus, diablo 2 isnt' an MMO but if you played that on hardcore mode and dueled like i used to then it makes L2 PvP look wimpy.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.