Originally posted by outfctrl Look all around the world at what you see. Look at America the Christian nation and look at how God has blessed it.
Now look around all the other parts of the world and you see people living in poverty compared to America and being held back and controlled especially in most muslim countries.
Any country that is not Christian but is doing well is because of America who blessed them, because they could'nt bless themsleves.
How is that? It must be God who blsses "HIS PEOPLE", so then they can be a blessing to others.
America in its little bitty age compared to all others has totally left others countries in the dust that were here thousands and thousands of years before America was even thought of. And look at America and how blessed America is because of God.(I personally believe that the forefathers of America made a covenant with the Lord Jesus Christ.)
If I was a person in another country I would take this to heart when deciding what God to serve because it is plain for the whole world to see that there is only one God who answers his people's prayers and blesses them and that would be Jesus.
I don't see any evidence that the people of other countries that serve other god's from Africa to China,to the muslim world,anywhere you look,etc have a god who has answered their prayers and blessea them like Jesus has America,etc.
Do you? Has Buddha blessed asia? like Jesus has America? Has the hindu god's blessed like Jesus has?What about Muhammad?
I think that anybody who is honest can see which God blesses his people and which god's don't.
I like the way how you ignored the fact that america controlls most of the trade in the world as well as the dept keeping countries poor and in dept.
Originally posted by Razorback Ya know all my life I have been politely tollerant of the tooth fairy set.... My patience is running thin as more and more inncoent people are slaughtered around the globe in the name of these various tooth fairies. Its high time, logical, reasoning, thinking, good, normal people, whos brains arnt fried by tooth fairy stories stood up and said ENOUGH! I have made a promise to myself to be less tollerant of it. Tollerance allows these people to think that the garbage they spew has value when it doesnt. http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-6169720917221820689&q=god+delusion
Don't you know though, if you don't believe those toothfairy stories they call you immoral? You can't be open minded and be a moral person. You've got to buy the whole bit. Hook, line, and sinker. Or you don't belong. And in the end, isn't that really what it's all about?
....while others simply DON'T get what I'm getting at...
Believing that a fat man can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous, Yet you do believe (assuming that your religious) that a man can create an entire world in just 7 days,People that can fly, walk over water, staves that turn into snakes and a lot of more things. You also believe that once people die, people will go to heaven...a "Place of joy and happiness, home to angels". And you believe this...because you were told to believe it. Just like your parents told you Santa exists when you were little.
Do you NOW see what I'm getting at
i got what you were getting at the first time, believing in God doesnt make one stupid. i agree that believing in a fat man that can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous. i dont see anyone arguing that point. do you? i dont believe that a MAN can create an entire world in just 7 days. i do believe that a God can. theres the difference. all of those things that you mention are what is called miracles. people still see miracles today. and i dont believe this because i was told anything. i believe it because ive experienced Him. i dont care if you believe me or not. your not me judge, albeit, you sure are acting the part. funny, you would be all over me if i were to attack your belief system, but its ok for you to attack mine. and the sad thing is, the only thing youre going on is what you can see/hear/feel. btw, santa isnt even taught as real by most christians. hes taught as what he is, a fairy tale. big difference. ive been in situations where the only "logical" answer was it had to be God. ive seen miracles. again, i dont expect you to believe me. sad existence it must be to not be able to believe anything you cant see/hear/feel yourself. good luck with that.
Its the attitude of saying nothing in the face of utter, utter nonsense that has led this planet to where it is now. I have made a life of respecting the beliefs of others. Those others have made a life of trying to have me variously killed or converted as thanks. Its time for normal people to speak up. For once.... Im with you Baff
Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor).
So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Originally posted by Sassymolassy Its the attitude of saying nothing in the face of utter, utter nonsense that has led this planet to where it is now. I have made a life of respecting the beliefs of others. Those others have made a life of trying to have me variously killed or converted as thanks.Its time for normal people to speak up.For once.... Im with you Baff Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor).So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
Its the attitude of saying nothing in the face of utter, utter nonsense that has led this planet to where it is now. I have made a life of respecting the beliefs of others. Those others have made a life of trying to have me variously killed or converted as thanks. Its time for normal people to speak up. For once.... Im with you Baff
Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor). So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
....while others simply DON'T get what I'm getting at...
Believing that a fat man can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous, Yet you do believe (assuming that your religious) that a man can create an entire world in just 7 days,People that can fly, walk over water, staves that turn into snakes and a lot of more things. You also believe that once people die, people will go to heaven...a "Place of joy and happiness, home to angels". And you believe this...because you were told to believe it. Just like your parents told you Santa exists when you were little.
Do you NOW see what I'm getting at
i got what you were getting at the first time, believing in God doesnt make one stupid. i agree that believing in a fat man that can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous. i dont see anyone arguing that point. do you? i dont believe that a MAN can create an entire world in just 7 days. i do believe that a God can. theres the difference. all of those things that you mention are what is called miracles. people still see miracles today. and i dont believe this because i was told anything. i believe it because ive experienced Him. i dont care if you believe me or not. your not me judge, albeit, you sure are acting the part. funny, you would be all over me if i were to attack your belief system, but its ok for you to attack mine. and the sad thing is, the only thing youre going on is what you can see/hear/feel. btw, santa isnt even taught as real by most christians. hes taught as what he is, a fairy tale. big difference. ive been in situations where the only "logical" answer was it had to be God. ive seen miracles. again, i dont expect you to believe me. sad existence it must be to not be able to believe anything you cant see/hear/feel yourself. good luck with that.
So again let me get this straigth. the theory that a man can bring presents all over the world is downright rediculous, but that an entity, a god in this case, can do all those "Miracles" is perfectly normal? don't you see the irony in that? You say those were called miracles, yet there has NEVER been any proof those miracles actually existed. you believe in those miracales because you were told to believe them.
You say you "experienced" miracles. although you did not discribe what those miricales are (I hope you will do that in your reply to this post), I can say for sure you are either:
1:Lying 2:Disillusioned. what you thought that happened never happened. 3:There is a logical and sciencetific explenation for it.
And even if there isn't, Just because science can't proof it yet does NOT mean that religion is right.
Santa may not be taught that he is real by christians, but that isn't the issue, because it is the same thing. I was told that Santa was real when I was a child, and boy, did I believe he was real alright. Because I was TOLD to believe so.
Its the same thing with the old ancient gods of egyp and greece, zeus, Anubis. People also claimed they had seen miricales, yet look at what those "gods" are today.
You think that it must be a sad existance to not believe anything you can't see, feel, or hear. I see it the other way, I think it is one of my best aspects. I believe something when I see proof, and no other. I won't believe an illusion that easily.
And wow, what a concept. Millions of people believe in it, so it must be true. YET THOSE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NEVER SAW PROOF. they believed in stories. People always look for answer to explain things, its in human nature. Back then, science couldn't prove, so people went to something that did had an explenation for it: Religion. its completely normal when you think about it. but that was the past, look at today. Many things have been proven by science. Volcano eruptions aren't the work of god, neither are storms.
You are fully free to attack my believes, but remember one thing: You have nothing to stand your ground. You can't prove or disprove anything. I can, with EVIDENCE.
Its the attitude of saying nothing in the face of utter, utter nonsense that has led this planet to where it is now. I have made a life of respecting the beliefs of others. Those others have made a life of trying to have me variously killed or converted as thanks. Its time for normal people to speak up. For once.... Im with you Baff
Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor). So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Thanks, but I guess it all falls on deaf ears, because I'm just a Jesus freak with low reading comprehension skills(a laughable accusation on your part Razor, because even if you want to get truly literal about it, I always scored in the top percentiles in that area...if you want to call me on a subject that I suck at, make a thread about algebra)
I just think it's sad that Razor feels that the correct way to fight ignorance is with more ignorance. I would think that by reading so many of my posts that you would understand that there is a truly rational reason for my beliefs. But I suppose when you are blinded by your own emotions and predispositions towards religion, it really wouldn't matter what I said, unless of course I was agreeing with you. I used to think that religion was simply a tool created by men to keep the masses in line, I used to actually somewhat agree with Razor, except with less hatred in my heart. My eyes were opened up when I decided to take an objective look at the information and world around me, I wish others were willing to do the same. But so many of us are so dead set on believing what we do, that we are unwilling to compromise it for anything. I open myself up to flaming constantly when I get into the creationist/evolution discussions, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't think that I had good reason to. What is so odd is how so many evolutionists want to try to convert me to their way of thinking by making posts like Razor's...brash and insulting...I'm not sure what kind of result you really expect from that. I do my best to remain civil with everyone on these boards, even those who are being downright nasty to me...it can be very trying on my patience, and I apologize if I've ever insulted anyone. I try to write my posts in a way that conveys my thoughts with conviction, but not at the expense of the other forum members.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by PlanoMM do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
No, they were not insane, they were making inferences using what extremely little science they had at the time, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, tidal waves, and all that they called miracles or disasters of god, and now we know that they are not, we know what causes things. They didn't know what the cause of things were, so they came up with ideas about gods, which, at the time, was the logical conclusion. They were not insane, you are.
do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
No, they were not insane, they were making inferences using what extremely little science they had at the time, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, tidal waves, and all that they called miracles or disasters of god, and now we know that they are not, we know what causes things. They didn't know what the cause of things were, so they came up with ideas about gods, which, at the time, was the logical conclusion. They were not insane, you are.
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Xexima Originally posted by PlanoMM do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
No, they were not insane, they were making inferences using what extremely little science they had at the time, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, tidal waves, and all that they called miracles or disasters of god, and now we know that they are not, we know what causes things. They didn't know what the cause of things were, so they came up with ideas about gods, which, at the time, was the logical conclusion. They were not insane, you are. Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors." No, I was saying that early jews made up the stories in the torah (old testament) blaming god for what they could not explain by themselves, now there is no reason for it because we can begin to understand the universe using rational thought (science), rather than theology.
And no, atheism isn't the the opposition to godliness, because atheists, if they find scientific proof (or even evidence for that matter) pointing toward a god would believe in a god. Atheists are one of the most rational and logical groups, only possibly surpassed by agnostics and deists, but not by much, if any.
Oh, and who are you to call someone illogical if your worst subject is algebra? Algebra is the epitemy of logic.
Thank God that was a joke: In thanks I'm gonna sacrifice 3 goats, 2 cows, and 3 PS3's... Better make that Wii's don't want to get struck with lighting by sending God shotty crap...
Anyways I was worried at this post, you have'nt posted in a while and joining a David Karesh like cult could have explained that. Anyways, good to see you posting again
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
No, they were not insane, they were making inferences using what extremely little science they had at the time, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, tidal waves, and all that they called miracles or disasters of god, and now we know that they are not, we know what causes things. They didn't know what the cause of things were, so they came up with ideas about gods, which, at the time, was the logical conclusion. They were not insane, you are.
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying?
Originally posted by shamall Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Xexima Originally posted by PlanoMM do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
No, they were not insane, they were making inferences using what extremely little science they had at the time, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, tidal waves, and all that they called miracles or disasters of god, and now we know that they are not, we know what causes things. They didn't know what the cause of things were, so they came up with ideas about gods, which, at the time, was the logical conclusion. They were not insane, you are. Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors." I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying? Yeah, that is what he is saying, I'm saying that he is thinking that they are done by god because earlier people made up god to explain events they could not explain at the time.
Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor). So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Originally posted by Sassymolassy Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor).So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
I just deem it illogical and irrational.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
Yeah.. but there is something scary about the "we know the absolute truth and you guys are all infidels worthy of eternal torture because you do not accept us as allknowing" part.
Originally posted by Xexima Oh, and who are you to call someone illogical if your worst subject is algebra? Algebra is the epitemy of logic.
lol...
Math bores me, there is no fun in a subject where all of the answers can be had through a simply equation...It's not that I am unable to do it, it's just that writing is so much more free and liberating than math can be.
And about the jews thing: That depends on whether or not you believe that the people of the time spoke to God, as they did in the old testament...so your beliefs are based on the idea that nobody has, mine are not.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Athiesm holds no more of a fantasy belief than any other religion does, because until Athiests learn how to create something from nothing, they will not have an answer for the origin of the universe, or life. So essentially by being an Athiest, you are either putting your belief into something that has never been discovered, or magic...how is this different from a religion again?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Sassymolassy Wow! I didnt even know I was trying to kill you! But Im crazy so I guess that explains it! btw- excellent posts Draenor. I would comment but that would probably require knowledge from more than 1 book (which I dont have according to Razor).So here is my question, would you (tooth fairy haters) ban the tooth fairy?
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
Actually, ma'am, I was a full blown Catholic for 10+ years. Don't even bother flaming Catholics if you tend to dislike them, you both share a common goal. I scrutinized my faith, which included 10 years of biblical study and religious debate every day for 10 years. Then one day, I realized it was all forced. My later religion classes pointed out the flaws in the Bible, which gave me a better understanding of where my beliefs stood and why I believed what I did. Then I realized that I was living my life based on a flawed logic that I, in my current state, couldn't even begin to discern.
People like you really piss me off. You put your whole hearted faith in an intangible superman, then call me closed-minded for accepting the possibility that you could be completely wrong. Hey, sweetheart, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. We as humans don't know enough to be believing in a god for any logical reasons, it's a cop out. I'm not saying a higher power doesn't exist, but in our infantile state we have no grounds to say whether or not God is out there.
Oh, and for the records, the hip thing is atheism, a belief I find as illogical as theism. So back off.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
You tested this for yourself eh? Let's hear the empirical study you ran to prove God exists? I got drunk one night and got into the God debate. I asked God for some proof that he existed. Shortly thereafter, I ran out of cigarettes, and tried to drive to the gas station. I hit a sewer drain and got a flat. Someone like you might say it's God's doing, whereas I say I drove drunk and got in a wreck.
Religion has started plenty of wars, so that love thy neighbor talk is null.
Originally posted by Draenor I should add about Athiests... Athiesm holds no more of a fantasy belief than any other religion does, because until Athiests learn how to create something from nothing, they will not have an answer for the origin of the universe, or life. So essentially by being an Athiest, you are either putting your belief into something that has never been discovered, or magic...how is this different from a religion again?
It's the same, and that is why I hold atheists and theists in the same light.
Originally posted by Draenor I should add about Athiests... Athiesm holds no more of a fantasy belief than any other religion does, because until Athiests learn how to create something from nothing, they will not have an answer for the origin of the universe, or life. So essentially by being an Athiest, you are either putting your belief into something that has never been discovered, or magic...how is this different from a religion again?
Atheists don't all believe in the big bang, hell most of them think that it is just as bad as religion with all of it's loopholes. You see, scientists at this time theorizing about the big bang are doing just what the ancient peoples did when they couldn't explain something, speculating. If that speculation turned into fact just like religion did, it is just as bad. Science at one point will prove us wrong about the big bang too, but til then, all we can do is speculate.
The difference between those believing in the big bang and those believing in religion is that those who believe in science accept its changes and advancement, those believing in religion just choose to ingore things if they don't go along with their beliefs.
Over all, Atheists are willing to change, the religious aren't.
I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying? I just have a question to be clarified.
Example: Earthquakes
Conclusion: We know how natural events occur thus cannot be done by God (unless I'm wrong)
My thoughts:
I don't see how the fact that we know movement and collisions of tectonic plates lead to earthquakes in anyway speak about the existence or lack of existence of God. Who is to say the movement of tectonic plates is not governed by God, who is to say the light source coming from the sun, isn't governed by God? Sure, a person can say, we've calculated the lifespan of the sun's light, but i still don't see how it infringes on the prospect of God.
What is nature supposed to be a secret?
I personally think it is a plausible way to think that science is just studying the laws of God basically. One could believe relgion and science should go hand in hand.
We know from physics that 2 masses attract each other (gravitational pull), we know about magnetisim, we know that an ion with 7 electrons in its valence shell will be attracted to another ion with 1 electron in its valence shell. We know that a hydrogen bond occurs when a hydrogen is bound ot an Oxygen, Nitrogen, or Fluorine and when it is in close proximity to O, N, or F. We know that saltwater and freshwater do not mix. Who put these immutable laws into place? Therefore, I think it is plausible to believe in that when we study "science" we're just studying what God put into place.
I truly do not see where the connection is made from people saying, we know how earthquakes arise thus there cannot be a God. Playing devil's advocate I could say, maybe, you've figured out the program put in place by God that leads to Earthquakes.
I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the fact that by knowing how natural phenomena work infringes on God in anyway. If I'm trying to follow the logic, I could say that Science and Reiligion (Christianity mainly) have gone into head to head clashes and it is apparent now in science that Christianity has lost those arguments using the Bible as its premise, therefore the Bible is incorrect and science is now the new bible or sorts.
Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying, I am trying to play devil's advocate because i don't see how knowing how a natural event occurs has implications on God.
Thanks,
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Originally posted by Cryomatrix Originally posted by shamall
I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying? I just have a question to be clarified.
Example: Earthquakes
Conclusion: We know how natural events occur thus cannot be done by God (unless I'm wrong)
My thoughts:
I don't see how the fact that we know movement and collisions of tectonic plates lead to earthquakes in anyway speak about the existence or lack of existence of God. Who is to say the movement of tectonic plates is not governed by God, who is to say the light source coming from the sun, isn't governed by God? Sure, a person can say, we've calculated the lifespan of the sun's light, but i still don't see how it infringes on the prospect of God.
What is nature supposed to be a secret?
I personally think it is a plausible way to think that science is just studying the laws of God basically. One could believe relgion and science should go hand in hand.
We know from physics that 2 masses attract each other (gravitational pull), we know about magnetisim, we know that an ion with 7 electrons in its valence shell will be attracted to another ion with 1 electron in its valence shell. We know that a hydrogen bond occurs when a hydrogen is bound ot an Oxygen, Nitrogen, or Fluorine and when it is in close proximity to O, N, or F. We know that saltwater and freshwater do not mix. Who put these immutable laws into place? Therefore, I think it is plausible to believe in that when we study "science" we're just studying what God put into place.
I truly do not see where the connection is made from people saying, we know how earthquakes arise thus there cannot be a God. Playing devil's advocate I could say, maybe, you've figured out the program put in place by God that leads to Earthquakes.
I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the fact that by knowing how natural phenomena work infringes on God in anyway. If I'm trying to follow the logic, I could say that Science and Reiligion (Christianity mainly) have gone into head to head clashes and it is apparent now in science that Christianity has lost those arguments using the Bible as its premise, therefore the Bible is incorrect and science is now the new bible or sorts.
Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying, I am trying to play devil's advocate because i don't see how knowing how a natural event occurs has implications on God.
Thanks,
Cryomatrix I see where you are coming from (obviously, it is the only logical way that a god could exist). What I'm saying is that people created God in their own image to explain the natural occurances of the world. Hell, I don't know if there is a god or not, and we will never know (by "we" I'm talking about people of our time, in the future things may and probably will change), but I'll tell you flat out that the gods that people here on earth worship are man-made and are not actual gods.
Originally posted by Draenor I should add about Athiests... Athiesm holds no more of a fantasy belief than any other religion does, because until Athiests learn how to create something from nothing, they will not have an answer for the origin of the universe, or life. So essentially by being an Athiest, you are either putting your belief into something that has never been discovered, or magic...how is this different from a religion again?
Well, there is theory that say that positive and negative matter exist, like the opposite...or something like that. So basically, it's still balance toward zero, as nothing really exist without it counterpart nullifying it...
Just a theory...(I am a Catholic myself hehe, but love to feed the stuff I heard)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
....while others simply DON'T get what I'm getting at...
Believing that a fat man can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous, Yet you do believe (assuming that your religious) that a man can create an entire world in just 7 days,People that can fly, walk over water, staves that turn into snakes and a lot of more things. You also believe that once people die, people will go to heaven...a "Place of joy and happiness, home to angels". And you believe this...because you were told to believe it. Just like your parents told you Santa exists when you were little.
Do you NOW see what I'm getting at
i got what you were getting at the first time, believing in God doesnt make one stupid. i agree that believing in a fat man that can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous. i dont see anyone arguing that point. do you? i dont believe that a MAN can create an entire world in just 7 days. i do believe that a God can. theres the difference. all of those things that you mention are what is called miracles. people still see miracles today. and i dont believe this because i was told anything. i believe it because ive experienced Him. i dont care if you believe me or not. your not me judge, albeit, you sure are acting the part. funny, you would be all over me if i were to attack your belief system, but its ok for you to attack mine. and the sad thing is, the only thing youre going on is what you can see/hear/feel. btw, santa isnt even taught as real by most christians. hes taught as what he is, a fairy tale. big difference. ive been in situations where the only "logical" answer was it had to be God. ive seen miracles. again, i dont expect you to believe me. sad existence it must be to not be able to believe anything you cant see/hear/feel yourself. good luck with that.
______________________________
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
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Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
do you have a Bible that teaches "invisible pink unicorns" or "flying spahetti monsters"? if you did, and it had been around for thousands of years as a mainstream religion. i wouldnt question your sanity. basicly, what you and a few others are saying is that for thousands of years, most people all over the world have been insane. that some of the greatest scientific minds that believed in God, werent smart enough to realize how insane they are. that you, as a atheist, are the only sane people in the world. you do realize that youre in the minority, right? you do realize that youre insulting more than 3/4th of the worlds population, past and present? wow, what an ego.
im going to bed now, night all.
______________________________
....while others simply DON'T get what I'm getting at...
Believing that a fat man can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous, Yet you do believe (assuming that your religious) that a man can create an entire world in just 7 days,People that can fly, walk over water, staves that turn into snakes and a lot of more things. You also believe that once people die, people will go to heaven...a "Place of joy and happiness, home to angels". And you believe this...because you were told to believe it. Just like your parents told you Santa exists when you were little.
Do you NOW see what I'm getting at
i got what you were getting at the first time, believing in God doesnt make one stupid. i agree that believing in a fat man that can bring presents all over the world, presents that were made at a world of joy by elves, is rediculous. i dont see anyone arguing that point. do you? i dont believe that a MAN can create an entire world in just 7 days. i do believe that a God can. theres the difference. all of those things that you mention are what is called miracles. people still see miracles today. and i dont believe this because i was told anything. i believe it because ive experienced Him. i dont care if you believe me or not. your not me judge, albeit, you sure are acting the part. funny, you would be all over me if i were to attack your belief system, but its ok for you to attack mine. and the sad thing is, the only thing youre going on is what you can see/hear/feel. btw, santa isnt even taught as real by most christians. hes taught as what he is, a fairy tale. big difference. ive been in situations where the only "logical" answer was it had to be God. ive seen miracles. again, i dont expect you to believe me. sad existence it must be to not be able to believe anything you cant see/hear/feel yourself. good luck with that.
So again let me get this straigth. the theory that a man can bring presents all over the world is downright rediculous, but that an entity, a god in this case, can do all those "Miracles" is perfectly normal? don't you see the irony in that? You say those were called miracles, yet there has NEVER been any proof those miracles actually existed. you believe in those miracales because you were told to believe them.
You say you "experienced" miracles. although you did not discribe what those miricales are (I hope you will do that in your reply to this post), I can say for sure you are either:
1:Lying
2:Disillusioned. what you thought that happened never happened.
3:There is a logical and sciencetific explenation for it.
And even if there isn't, Just because science can't proof it yet does NOT mean that religion is right.
Santa may not be taught that he is real by christians, but that isn't the issue, because it is the same thing. I was told that Santa was real when I was a child, and boy, did I believe he was real alright. Because I was TOLD to believe so.
Its the same thing with the old ancient gods of egyp and greece, zeus, Anubis. People also claimed they had seen miricales, yet look at what those "gods" are today.
You think that it must be a sad existance to not believe anything you can't see, feel, or hear. I see it the other way, I think it is one of my best aspects. I believe something when I see proof, and no other. I won't believe an illusion that easily.
And wow, what a concept. Millions of people believe in it, so it must be true. YET THOSE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NEVER SAW PROOF. they believed in stories. People always look for answer to explain things, its in human nature. Back then, science couldn't prove, so people went to something that did had an explenation for it: Religion. its completely normal when you think about it. but that was the past, look at today. Many things have been proven by science. Volcano eruptions aren't the work of god, neither are storms.
You are fully free to attack my believes, but remember one thing: You have nothing to stand your ground. You can't prove or disprove anything. I can, with EVIDENCE.
Thanks, but I guess it all falls on deaf ears, because I'm just a Jesus freak with low reading comprehension skills(a laughable accusation on your part Razor, because even if you want to get truly literal about it, I always scored in the top percentiles in that area...if you want to call me on a subject that I suck at, make a thread about algebra)
I just think it's sad that Razor feels that the correct way to fight ignorance is with more ignorance. I would think that by reading so many of my posts that you would understand that there is a truly rational reason for my beliefs. But I suppose when you are blinded by your own emotions and predispositions towards religion, it really wouldn't matter what I said, unless of course I was agreeing with you. I used to think that religion was simply a tool created by men to keep the masses in line, I used to actually somewhat agree with Razor, except with less hatred in my heart. My eyes were opened up when I decided to take an objective look at the information and world around me, I wish others were willing to do the same. But so many of us are so dead set on believing what we do, that we are unwilling to compromise it for anything. I open myself up to flaming constantly when I get into the creationist/evolution discussions, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't think that I had good reason to. What is so odd is how so many evolutionists want to try to convert me to their way of thinking by making posts like Razor's...brash and insulting...I'm not sure what kind of result you really expect from that. I do my best to remain civil with everyone on these boards, even those who are being downright nasty to me...it can be very trying on my patience, and I apologize if I've ever insulted anyone. I try to write my posts in a way that conveys my thoughts with conviction, but not at the expense of the other forum members.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
"Many have a made a trade of delusions
and false miracles, deceiving the stupid multitude."
"Blinding Ignorance does mislead us.
O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
-Leonardo Da Vinci.
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
No, I was saying that early jews made up the stories in the torah (old testament) blaming god for what they could not explain by themselves, now there is no reason for it because we can begin to understand the universe using rational thought (science), rather than theology.
And no, atheism isn't the the opposition to godliness, because atheists, if they find scientific proof (or even evidence for that matter) pointing toward a god would believe in a god. Atheists are one of the most rational and logical groups, only possibly surpassed by agnostics and deists, but not by much, if any.
Oh, and who are you to call someone illogical if your worst subject is algebra? Algebra is the epitemy of logic.
Anyways I was worried at this post, you have'nt posted in a while and joining a David Karesh like cult could have explained that. Anyways, good to see you posting again
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying?
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
Because Christians are arguing that Earthquakes, volcanos, floods, and tidal waves to not have natural causes? We aren't saying that these things aren't caused by Earthly physical phenomenon, we are saying that God causes these Earthly physical phenomenon..Indeed I would even go so far as to say that those who believe on no God at all are the most illogical...As Isaac Newton put it: "Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors."
I pretty much see it the same as Xexima. Civilization at that time did not have the science to explain the events that took place like we do now. This is why I think the events/miracles of the bible can not be taken word for word because they are subject to the interpritation of the people at that time. For a person now to say that natural events are caused by god when we have proven scientifically exactly how these events happen to some people seems ridiculous unless you are trying to say that the fact that they happen at all is due to god. Is that what your are saying?
Yeah, that is what he is saying, I'm saying that he is thinking that they are done by god because earlier people made up god to explain events they could not explain at the time.
run-on sentences ftw
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
I just deem it illogical and irrational.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
Yeah.. but there is something scary about the "we know the absolute truth and you guys are all infidels worthy of eternal torture because you do not accept us as allknowing" part.
lol...
Math bores me, there is no fun in a subject where all of the answers can be had through a simply equation...It's not that I am unable to do it, it's just that writing is so much more free and liberating than math can be.
And about the jews thing: That depends on whether or not you believe that the people of the time spoke to God, as they did in the old testament...so your beliefs are based on the idea that nobody has, mine are not.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I should add about Athiests...
Athiesm holds no more of a fantasy belief than any other religion does, because until Athiests learn how to create something from nothing, they will not have an answer for the origin of the universe, or life. So essentially by being an Athiest, you are either putting your belief into something that has never been discovered, or magic...how is this different from a religion again?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Why would I ban the tooth fairy? It's an entertaining notion for children who can't come up with a logical explanation for themselves. (note my use of the word "children")
Soooo becasue religion doesn't interest you, you've deemed it to be as worthless as a child's fairytale? Is that how you judge everything? On how much you care for it at a glance? But regardless, I dont mind being childlike in the sense of openmindedness. And in the sense that I will judge a concept on how it helps or hinder's me, not how hip it currently is in the world.
Actually, ma'am, I was a full blown Catholic for 10+ years. Don't even bother flaming Catholics if you tend to dislike them, you both share a common goal. I scrutinized my faith, which included 10 years of biblical study and religious debate every day for 10 years. Then one day, I realized it was all forced. My later religion classes pointed out the flaws in the Bible, which gave me a better understanding of where my beliefs stood and why I believed what I did. Then I realized that I was living my life based on a flawed logic that I, in my current state, couldn't even begin to discern.
People like you really piss me off. You put your whole hearted faith in an intangible superman, then call me closed-minded for accepting the possibility that you could be completely wrong. Hey, sweetheart, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. We as humans don't know enough to be believing in a god for any logical reasons, it's a cop out. I'm not saying a higher power doesn't exist, but in our infantile state we have no grounds to say whether or not God is out there.
Oh, and for the records, the hip thing is atheism, a belief I find as illogical as theism. So back off.
Now I have a question for you: If I put all my faith in an Invisible Pink Unicorn (Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves) or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you not question my sanity as some have questioned yours?
For me, the proof is in the doing. I know that the religious concepts I follow have truth becasue I have tested them for myself.
But if someone followed the same standards Christains are taught to live and they claimed it was all becasue the spahgetti monster gave them the info, then I would be Ok with that. There is nothing scary or insane about "loving your neighbor and serving others.
You tested this for yourself eh? Let's hear the empirical study you ran to prove God exists? I got drunk one night and got into the God debate. I asked God for some proof that he existed. Shortly thereafter, I ran out of cigarettes, and tried to drive to the gas station. I hit a sewer drain and got a flat. Someone like you might say it's God's doing, whereas I say I drove drunk and got in a wreck.
Religion has started plenty of wars, so that love thy neighbor talk is null.
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The difference between those believing in the big bang and those believing in religion is that those who believe in science accept its changes and advancement, those believing in religion just choose to ingore things if they don't go along with their beliefs.
Over all, Atheists are willing to change, the religious aren't.
I just have a question to be clarified.
Example: Earthquakes
Conclusion: We know how natural events occur thus cannot be done by God (unless I'm wrong)
My thoughts:
I don't see how the fact that we know movement and collisions of tectonic plates lead to earthquakes in anyway speak about the existence or lack of existence of God. Who is to say the movement of tectonic plates is not governed by God, who is to say the light source coming from the sun, isn't governed by God? Sure, a person can say, we've calculated the lifespan of the sun's light, but i still don't see how it infringes on the prospect of God.
What is nature supposed to be a secret?
I personally think it is a plausible way to think that science is just studying the laws of God basically. One could believe relgion and science should go hand in hand.
We know from physics that 2 masses attract each other (gravitational pull), we know about magnetisim, we know that an ion with 7 electrons in its valence shell will be attracted to another ion with 1 electron in its valence shell. We know that a hydrogen bond occurs when a hydrogen is bound ot an Oxygen, Nitrogen, or Fluorine and when it is in close proximity to O, N, or F. We know that saltwater and freshwater do not mix. Who put these immutable laws into place? Therefore, I think it is plausible to believe in that when we study "science" we're just studying what God put into place.
I truly do not see where the connection is made from people saying, we know how earthquakes arise thus there cannot be a God. Playing devil's advocate I could say, maybe, you've figured out the program put in place by God that leads to Earthquakes.
I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the fact that by knowing how natural phenomena work infringes on God in anyway. If I'm trying to follow the logic, I could say that Science and Reiligion (Christianity mainly) have gone into head to head clashes and it is apparent now in science that Christianity has lost those arguments using the Bible as its premise, therefore the Bible is incorrect and science is now the new bible or sorts.
Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying, I am trying to play devil's advocate because i don't see how knowing how a natural event occurs has implications on God.
Thanks,
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I just have a question to be clarified.
Example: Earthquakes
Conclusion: We know how natural events occur thus cannot be done by God (unless I'm wrong)
My thoughts:
I don't see how the fact that we know movement and collisions of tectonic plates lead to earthquakes in anyway speak about the existence or lack of existence of God. Who is to say the movement of tectonic plates is not governed by God, who is to say the light source coming from the sun, isn't governed by God? Sure, a person can say, we've calculated the lifespan of the sun's light, but i still don't see how it infringes on the prospect of God.
What is nature supposed to be a secret?
I personally think it is a plausible way to think that science is just studying the laws of God basically. One could believe relgion and science should go hand in hand.
We know from physics that 2 masses attract each other (gravitational pull), we know about magnetisim, we know that an ion with 7 electrons in its valence shell will be attracted to another ion with 1 electron in its valence shell. We know that a hydrogen bond occurs when a hydrogen is bound ot an Oxygen, Nitrogen, or Fluorine and when it is in close proximity to O, N, or F. We know that saltwater and freshwater do not mix. Who put these immutable laws into place? Therefore, I think it is plausible to believe in that when we study "science" we're just studying what God put into place.
I truly do not see where the connection is made from people saying, we know how earthquakes arise thus there cannot be a God. Playing devil's advocate I could say, maybe, you've figured out the program put in place by God that leads to Earthquakes.
I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the fact that by knowing how natural phenomena work infringes on God in anyway. If I'm trying to follow the logic, I could say that Science and Reiligion (Christianity mainly) have gone into head to head clashes and it is apparent now in science that Christianity has lost those arguments using the Bible as its premise, therefore the Bible is incorrect and science is now the new bible or sorts.
Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying, I am trying to play devil's advocate because i don't see how knowing how a natural event occurs has implications on God.
Thanks,
Cryomatrix
I see where you are coming from (obviously, it is the only logical way that a god could exist). What I'm saying is that people created God in their own image to explain the natural occurances of the world. Hell, I don't know if there is a god or not, and we will never know (by "we" I'm talking about people of our time, in the future things may and probably will change), but I'll tell you flat out that the gods that people here on earth worship are man-made and are not actual gods.
Well, there is theory that say that positive and negative matter exist, like the opposite...or something like that. So basically, it's still balance toward zero, as nothing really exist without it counterpart nullifying it...
Just a theory...(I am a Catholic myself hehe, but love to feed the stuff I heard)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren