Originally posted by Archaos Originally posted by Tarsick but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to.
You... laugh at anyone who feels entitled to anything...? That seems odd... I feel entitled to a paycheck because I worked many hours today. That's probably hilarious to you.
No, he laughs at anyone who feels innately entitled to things they are not. You are legally entitled to your paycheck. You are contractually employed, and exchange your labor for money. You are innately entitled to virtually nothing.
Originally posted by delateur Originally posted by Archaos Originally posted by Tarsick but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to.
You... laugh at anyone who feels entitled to anything...? That seems odd... I feel entitled to a paycheck because I worked many hours today. That's probably hilarious to you.
No, he laughs at anyone who feels innately entitled to things they are not. You are legally entitled to your paycheck. You are contractually employed, and exchange your labor for money. You are innately entitled to virtually nothing.
Well I'd prefer Tarsick answering for himself but, this isn't a case of someone thinking they are entitled to something but not actually being entitled to it. I am honestly baffled that you said that. Winning a contest entitles him to what they said he'd win. Is there seriously some doubt about that? He is also legally entitled to his prize. If some people won a state lottery fairly and never received their money, do you really think there wouldn't be a class action lawsuit? If I said "I [my name] will pay you 100 dollars to do such and such on a certain date," and you had documented proof of this (which isn't even always necessary in the case of verbal agreements) and actually did it. I would be legally obligated to pay you. As for your last statement, people are innately entitled to many things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
250 people won and will recieve their spot in beta. thats all you were "entitled" to and exactly what you WILL recieve. so dry your tears and get off your soap box
spellborn is working hard to complete their game, they give 2 shits about the people that want to "try before they buy" the game. thats all the whiners want. if you were sincerly interested in testing and helping Spellborn out then you wouldn't be crying your poor little eyes out on a forum talking shit about the company and those who disagree with your childish rants
Originally posted by Tarsick the contest was for a spot in beta
250 people won and will recieve their spot in beta. thats all you were "entitled" to and exactly what you WILL recieve. so dry your tears and get off your soap box
spellborn is working hard to complete their game, they give 2 shits about the people that want to "try before they buy" the game. thats all the whiners want. if you were sincerly interested in testing and helping Spellborn out then you wouldn't be crying your poor little eyes out on a forum talking shit about the company and those who disagree with your childish rants
Wow. Is this seriously your response, or a joke? All we've been saying is that the winners are entitled to the keys and now you're agreeing? Uh... Touche? I'm sorry but your entire response is completely irrational. The developers of spellborn don't care about people that want to try the game before they buy it? Where did that come from? If people really wanted to help test spellborn they wouldn't be complaining about not receiving the keys to help test spellborn??
This whole argument started because people attacked the OP for expressing his disappointment at not receiving his key. Why can't you respond with some sort of level-headedness? I wouldn't be surprised if your post was deleted by a mod.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Your response really shouldn't have been directed at me because I am not one of the 250 winners, nor do I even care about getting a key for spellborn.
Originally posted by Archaos Originally posted by Tarsick the contest was for a spot in beta250 people won and will recieve their spot in beta. thats all you were "entitled" to and exactly what you WILL recieve. so dry your tears and get off your soap boxspellborn is working hard to complete their game, they give 2 shits about the people that want to "try before they buy" the game. thats all the whiners want. if you were sincerly interested in testing and helping Spellborn out then you wouldn't be crying your poor little eyes out on a forum talking shit about the company and those who disagree with your childish rants
Wow. Is this seriously your response, or a joke? All we've been saying is that the winners are entitled to the keys and now you're agreeing? Uh... Touche? I'm sorry but your entire response is completely irrational. The developers of spellborn don't care about people that want to try the game before they buy it? Where did that come from? If people really wanted to help test spellborn they wouldn't be complaining about not receiving the keys to help test spellborn??
This whole argument started because people attacked the OP for expressing his disappointment at not receiving his key. Why can't you respond with some sort of level-headedness? I wouldn't be surprised if your post was deleted by a mod.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Your response really shouldn't have been directed at me because I am not one of the 250 winners, nor do I even care about getting a key for spellborn.
Actually, Archaos, the particular problem we're discussing that involves Aethios never disputed his being entitled to receive a key, but being entitled to complain offensively about having not received it yet. Nobody here denied he or any of the other winners were entitled to a key, as that would pretty silly and wholly indefensible position.
As to the Bill of Rights, again, that is a document that legally entitles you to certain things within the United States, and is not recognized globally, much less universally. It is a fabrication of mankind, and while it seeks to protect humanity from itself, it really doesn't adequately address the human factor in terms of entitlement, although it is an excellent attempt. For instance, all human beings should be entitled to receive respect in accordance to how they treat others, rather than the observer's capability to show it, but oftentimes they don't. Further, because there is no law surrounding this, it is left up to us to learn such things through our experience and then begin practicing it, often without acknowledgment. And, because our egos require almost constant praise and validation, issues like this often get ignored in favor of those that will garner us more attention and reward.
Originally posted by delateur Actually, Archaos, the particular problem we're discussing that involves Aethios never disputed his being entitled to receive a key, but being entitled to complain offensively about having not received it yet. Nobody here denied he or any of the other winners were entitled to a key, as that would pretty silly and wholly indefensible position. As to the Bill of Rights, again, that is a document that legally entitles you to certain things within the United States, and is not recognized globally, much less universally. It is a fabrication of mankind, and while it seeks to protect humanity from itself, it really doesn't adequately address the human factor in terms of entitlement, although it is an excellent attempt. For instance, all human beings should be entitled to receive respect in accordance to how they treat others, rather than the observer's capability to show it, but oftentimes they don't. Further, because there is no law surrounding this, it is left up to us to learn such things through our experience and then begin practicing it, often without acknowledgment. And, because our egos require almost constant praise and validation, issues like this often get ignored in favor of those that will garner us more attention and reward.
I guess we differ on the offensiveness of the original complaints. I didn't see anything offensive until people began attacking the OP unjustifiably, imo. The OP does have the right to express his disappointment. In the united states people have the right to free speech. That is an innate right in our society. You're correct that we have no innate rights were our civilization stripped away, but that's not really applicable as it's only hypothetical.
EDIT: You and tarsick aren't on exactly the same side. The part of my post about him having changed sides applies only to him. Here is what he said "but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to." which in the context of his other posts, I took to mean that he, in fact, didn't think the winners were entitled to the keys. You interpreted his statement differently and said he meant "innately" entitled, but I saw no evidence of that.
Originally posted by Archaos I guess we differ on the offensiveness of the original complaints. I didn't see anything offensive until people began attacking the OP unjustifiably, imo. The OP does have the right to express his disappointment. In the united states people have the right to free speech. That is an innate right in our society. You're correct that we have no innate rights were our civilization stripped away, but that's not really applicable as it's only hypothetical.
EDIT: You and tarsick aren't on exactly the same side. The part of my post about him having changed sides applies only to him. Here is what he said "but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to." which in the context of his other posts, I took to mean that he, in fact, didn't think the winners were entitled to the keys. You interpreted his statement differently and said he meant "innately" entitled, but I saw no evidence of that.
Actually, Amorphism was the OP on this thread, and Aethios chimed in later. As to innate rights, those rights DO exist with or without civilization, however without a legal backing, they are not enforced, and thus are free to be ignored at the discretion of the individual. When we speak of innate entitlement, we speak of something woven into the fabric of the universe, something that exists above and beyond human acknowledgment, but that can and sometimes is brought into the realm of social order through laws, institutions (such as religion or family), or personal revelation. So, I interpreted Tarsick's post to mean that it is humorous to see people acting entitled when often the subject of their entitled feelings has little to do with actual entitlement.
For instance, all the winners of beta keys feel entitled to enter the beta at some point, and of course the sooner the better, right? However, not all of us feel entitled to rant about missed due dates, a lack of communication, or other choices the company has made. Of course I'm not suggesting that you allow yourself to be taken advantage of and just remain silent, but I am suggesting that whatever course of action one does take should be productive, and should serve the interests of the one taking the action, as well as those who might be indirectly affected by those actions. Coming into a forum and verbally vomiting a slew of hateful words about what you did not receive when you were promised to receive it doesn't help anyone.
i thought it was a given that everyone knew that the winners would infact recieve their keys, so i didn't specify that particular in my posts.
knowing all the facts pertaining to a particular subject usually will help you form a better argument and help prevent misleading assumptions that arise from an incomplete understanding of the matter at hand
since the next phase of beta is still over a month away theres plenty of time to enroll in a reading comprehension class at your local public library
Perhaps it's time for you to just drop it. It's pretty apparent you don't think all that clearly by how you post, although I did have some hope for you initially, which was the point of my message, to help clarify your thinking, NOT to insult you or to start some sort of insult contest.
It's generally not a good idea to insult someone, and then in the same sentence ask them to stop arguing with you. If you didn't want to insult me, then you shouldn't have been so insulting in your previous posts.
It's obvious that you find critiques of your behavior insulting, because you instantly lash out at those who do so. I'm not surprised by your response, but knowing this, I have no intention of engaging you on this subject after this final response to your post.
I find YOUR critiques insulting, because you use terms like "petulant child," and insult my ability to "understand" your posts. I'm not an idiot, and I understand you perfectly. Perhaps you wish it weren't so, because that would make it easier to insult me without any repercussions.
1) Being entitled to a response is more than simply replying with the first thing that strikes you as "okay". I never said complaining is NOT a response, only that it is one of MANY responses available to you.
"... it does not entitle you to complain, it entitles you to RESPOND."
So which is it? A complaint IS a response, and I am entitled to a response, therefore I am entitled to complain. No amount of spin or circular logic is going to get you out of this, as you've said it in your own words.
Some will improve your character, some will worsen it. I think it goes without saying how a great deal of your choices have affected you in this post I'm replying to alone.
My choices to respond to your insults show that I'm not willing to back down when I feel I'm justified. I'm not going to be pushed around by people like you without some sort of defense. What's your point?
As to your examples, they are each unique, and each have appropriate and inappropriate responses, none of which you are INNATELY entitled to. If the law is on your side, that makes you LEGALLY entitled. It means that the outcome is more likely to turn out in your favor in a court of law. Each situation warrants its own response based on the elements involved in it. To take one of your examples, the lottery, the lottery has established methods for how it pays its winners, and as a person who purchased the ticket, you have legal recourse to address the situation. Nothing is stopping you from choosing to drive to the lottery headquarters and opening up on everyone inside with an AK-47, but it would be a poor choice among many possible choices, and that adequately sums up your postings in here, also. In both cases, whether you sued the lottery commission, or you gunned them down, neither option was one you were innately entitled to.
Wrong, again. I'm not discussing going postal on the lottery, and that wasn't involved anywhere in the discussion in my reply. The fact that YOU would bring it up in a discussion says volumes about your reaction to such an event.
Furthermore, I am INNATELY entitled to do whatever the hell I want. Nothing you can do is ever going to stop me from doing exactly what I want, when I want to do it. It's called "Free Will" and it cannot be taken away. Just because YOU deem them "inappropriate" doesn't mean that I shouldn't do them. If I am LEGALLY entitled to do it as well, that's just a bonus. I believe the word you were looking for here was "MORALLY," which really doesn't apply in this case, as I'm not harming anyone or taking anything away from anyone else.
Having said that, legally I am entitled to come to this forum and complain about not receiving my beta key, especially since the contest was held by MMORPG.com in its entirety. I am also innately entitled to do so. You are also entitled to complain about my complaining, which is exactly what you're doing. This whole thing is ridiculous, and you're making it out like I'm acting out of line just because YOU didn't want to read my complaints. Too bad. I can and I will. Deal with it.
I did not say you were not entitled to your key, only that you weren't entitled to rant about not having it as soon as you would have liked. You're also not entitled to something that can not be provided. Yes, you won a key, and unfortunately they are not able to give it to you as soon as they would have liked to.
If they aren't able to provide it, they shouldn't have held the contest in the first place. In any case, I stated before that I wouldn't mind if they simply gave us a date to look forward to, but at the time that wasn't the case. They had given us a date, which they then ignored completely, and failed to give notice for about two weeks afterwards. I am entitled to my key, and I was entitled to my key two months ago. I will continue to be entitled to my key until they give it to me, and that alone entitles me to complain about not having received it. If they are not able to provide it, that's THEIR problem, not mine. Their inability to do what they promised does not have any effect whatsoever on my entitlement to complaint.
You felt entitled to gripe about it, and people, myself included, have disagreed with you. That, sadly enough, invalidates your entitlement.
No, no it doesn't. Your opinion means nothing. This applies just as much in the real world as it does on this virtual forum. Get over yourself.
You argued that you couldn't understand how people would get upset over you voicing your feelings in a way that closely resembled whining, and of course the reason you couldn't understand it was because you were ENTITLED to whine because they had not provided what they promised.
No, I argued that I couldn't understand how people would get upset over me voicing my feelings over my entitlement to said promise. Whining was not involved in the equation at all.
However, in a public forum, nobody is entitled to such things, and you will be called on it. You were, and still you protest what would be obvious to anyone who had the presence of mind to sit back and think about it a bit. You might very well be entitled to a beta key, but you will never be entitled to whine about it showing up late, sorry.
More opinions, which mean absolutely nothing. Once again, I am entitled to do whatever I please on a public forum, and you are entitled to ignore me, or to respond, if you choose to do so. You are NOT entitled to tell me what I am entitled to.
You are, however, entitled to continue to make poor choices, whining being one of any number of others, and I and others will continue to be entitled to berate you for them as long as you choose to voice such drivel in a public forum.
You certainly aren't entitled to troll the forums in the manner you have done so far. Calling people names and then presuming to tell us what we are and are not "entitled" to do is pretty arrogant, and your pride is what's killing you here.
2) Namecalling: I have not called you any names, but rather have described in exacting detail the nature of your unpleasant actions to you in an attempt to help you better see your own folly. It was never intended to be anything other than that, and if you find it unpleasant, it is only due to the behavior of the individual I am describing.
It smells like a duck, it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck. It must be a duck.
Stop mocking me, and stop insulting my intelligence, and I'll stop being insulted. It's really quite simple. Your insults don't even relate to the point you're trying to make, and are really just icing on the cake for me. You talk like an arrogant jerk, so you must be an arrogant jerk.
3) The aspects of character: Your examples of what constitute character are valid, those are all excellent behaviors, and hopefully they are examples from your own life. The final assessment of my actions was completely false, and bears no similarity to what I am attempting to do, nor does it accurately reflect the situation. My posting here makes this post the business of everyone who reads it, as does your posting here.
The thread in discussion is about receiving (or not receiving) the beta keys won in the beta contest.
Did you win the contest? Are you in the beta? Are you a member of TCoS or MMORPG.com Staff?
If any of these questions can be answered with a resounding "yes," then this thread has just become "your business." If not, then STFU and GTFO.
I'm not exactly sure how you expect people to think you're entitled to whine when you can't even grasp that. You've posted your feelings on whining, and I've rebutted them. If you wanted it to be a private matter, you certainly know how to send private messages, don't you?
Your ability to berate and insult people in the open is a public matter. I have no need to hide what I'm trying to say to you, and it's an excellent example for the people of these forums to see.
4) The choices we make: Your choice to come in here and complain about TCoS and then defend your tirade as if it was some god-given right to behave poorly and receive nothing except praise for such actions points to far worse labels than just a "complainer." Behaving as though you are entitled to things that you are not (in this case, you're entitled to enter the beta when it's ready, not when they SAY it will be ready, you're entitled to complain, but you're not entitled to complaint without criticism, especially because you lack the insight, patience or tact to stay your tongue altogether) far exceeds mere complaining.
I don't expect praise for my complaints, and I don't expect to get into the beta because I complained. I expect people to understand that I am angry about not receiving my key, and that I have a right to SAY that I am angry and voice my opinion on the matter. My opinion (which is the criticism I am entitled to BECAUSE it is my opinion) is none of your business, and you have no standing to label me ANYTHING because of it. My original posts were not directed at you, nor at anything you had to say about the matter.
As to the choices TCoS made, I fully expect they make choices based on what they believe will ultimately produce the best possible scenario for a successful game. I further believe that if they chose to take advantage of this marketing opportunity and that it had the result of slowing down our entry into the game, that it was necessary for some reason, perhaps there was a limited time that they would have access to the performers, or perhaps they were given an amazing deal that was time constrained.
If they knew beforehand they were working on marketing, they should have told us then. If they didn't, and decided later to work on it, they should have told us then. Instead, they waited until the day before (or something like that) to say "oh by the way, you aren't getting your key until NEXT month."
But really, in the end, who cares? The end result is still the same, and we're still waiting to get in on the beta. I'm not looking to point fingers, I'm looking to play what looks to be a fun game, and I don't see how complaining, and then defending those complaints, does anything to speed up the process.
I'm not expecting to speed up the process, I'm hoping to let TCoS know that I'm not happy about their choices, and hopefully this will dissuade them from making similar choices in the future. As a customer of a business, I am entitled to tell them what I think about their actions and choices.
You're welcome to get upset over whatever you like, but don't expect me or anyone else who is able to cope with a bit of disappointment to pat you on the back for it.
Again, I don't need your approval, or even your opinion. STFU and GTFO.
4) Entitle: To be entitled is to have a right that is indisputable. You have no right to complain over this situation WITHOUT being disputed.
Maybe so, but it's certainly not your place to dispute it. If TCoS (or MMORPG.com) wants to come here and debate me, they are more than welcome to do so.
I and anyone else who chooses to do so can contradict you, can call you on your behavior, and deal with it in any way that doesn't violate your human rights. I'm sure that doesn't sit well with you, based on your responses, but that's how it works, so I hope you get used to it.
That would be trolling, as this thread and its contents are none of your business. You CAN continue to do so, and I will continue to call you a troll, and perhaps MMORPG.com Staff will do something about it. In the meantime... STFU and GTFO, troll.
5) Basis: The basis for your complaining is that TCoS didn't do what they said they'd do, and you were upset by this, and you chose to share that feeling in a public forum in an insulting way.
I don't feel that I was insulting. In any case, I find it amusing that you're accusing ME of being insulting, after some of the crap you've said.
You seem to think that the violation of an agreement in the form of a contest entitles you to express outrage in a non-constructive way,
It entitles me to respond however I like. In my opinion, sharing my opinion with TCoS is being constructive in itself, as they know how I feel and can better serve my needs. Nothing is stopping you from doing the same.
just as you feel that my calling you on such behavior entitles you to respond in a similar fashion.
Yes, yes it does. Why do you think YOU are entitled to respond to me?
Feeling this way only serves to limit your ability to grasp a situation beyond how it impacts you personally, and is why I called you on it in the first place. It certainly was not to call you names or test my skills at verbose flaming.
The way you handled the situation makes me believe that you're lying to save face.
In any case, once again, it's none of your business how I feel, or why.
As to my assessment of myself, I think I've made it quite clear that I've lost my temper on occasion, and that I'm disappointed and would love to be in the beta as much as anyone else. I'm not one to believe that a person's intrinsic worth is measured by their choices, but those same choices DO determine how easily that intrinsic worth is visible for all to see.
I agree, to some extent. It's not a person's choices that determine a person's worth, but WHY they made those choices. It's pretty clear from my previous posts why I chose to complain, and it wasn't just "to be a whiner."
I'm led to believe that the entire post quote above was meant as an effort to seem less like a troll and more like a passerby. You failed. YOU chose to come here and insult me, and you chose to make it seem like my actions were unreasonable. You didn't like my response, and that's fine. You don't have to agree with everything I say. However, disagreeing with me does NOT give you the right or entitle you to judge me based on my opinion, or to insult me for my means of expressing it. I'll do what I want, and you can keep your comments to yourself.
Having said that, I do hope that you choose not to respond further to my replies, as you suggested above that you might. Neither side of the debate has anything to do with the topic at hand, and (as I stated before) since you aren't part of the beta contest, you really don't have any say in what happens at this point. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm quite happy to end this attempt at communicating with you, Aethios, as it's apparent that further discourse would be futile. You are incorrect in assuming, however, that I have no stake in what is going on here. I AM a beta key winner, and I am a part of everything that is going on in this forum. Even if I were not, I would still be fully justified in everything I've said to you, and all people who can see beyond the end of their own noses understand this as well. I won't suggest to you that I approached you initially with love in my heart and an olive branch in my hand. I was confrontational on purpose, I was direct on purpose, and I was derogatory towards your completely irrational attitudes on purpose. There truly was no other way for me to suggest to you that your ideas on entitlement place you in the category of those who have divorced themselves almost completely from the human element of society. Luckily for you, the general importance of a person is measured more by how often they use their credit cards than how familiar they are with the human condition. I did not expect anything from you that you did not demonstrate. Forums are a place for all of us to learn from each other, to gain insights into the nature of people, in general, and hopefully end up better off than we started. I admit that sort of thing doesn't happen often, but in discussions like this, I do think forum readers in general are well-served by these sorts of discussions. We may as well leave all of this where it lies, as I have no wish to upset you further or subject others in this forum to further hostility, even if it's not directed at them, personally.
Can I please ask you all to try and focus on the topic, which is the missing keys... not the US constitution or each other
I was only a member of this site at the time I won a beta key to Roma Victor, anyone around for that knows the winners (including me) waited almost 6 months (from memory) to get in. So I CAN APPRECIATE the angst of those who won and why this thread has gone the way it has, it happened in the RV forums too.
I have asked management (of this site) to look into it and provide any further information, if any is available. Until that time, please play nicely so I dont have to start pushing your buttons
Thanks... merry Xmas
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Mirage, the new "Global community manager" posted this on the TCOS website on tues:
You'll be invited.
As Beta Phase 2 has ended past week, you won't be able to test it though. But you'll be able to join the Beta brawl when Beta Phase 3 starts, and it should happen early Q1.
Since then, hang to your hat, and be sure to check your email box.
Note: if someone already posted this and i didn't notice i apoligize as i didn't take the time to read through the 9 pages of this thread. Also if someone did post this and you all think i'm an asshat because i didn't read through the entire thread don't bother flaming me cause to me this case is closed.[slams case-file closed]
Luckily for you, the general importance of a person is measured more by how often they use their credit cards than how familiar they are with the human condition.
Not that TCoS is loosing credibility. It is just that they are a small and young company and always have had problems handling things properly. They have always had problems to deliver in time and alway informed people late. It is just the way things are. I suspect they just dont have to money to hire the people to handle these things properly. I guess that will change when the Chronicles of Spellborn become a hit.
I agree with you, its a small company with great ideas but they dont have a big team behind it like sony & blizard has.
I think there complete focus is on the game itself rather than marketing and the other things that come with an mmo.
Sure giving a download link that is not working or will give you the old version of the game is not good marketing, But its not a game killer either.
Everything will be alright, and service will improve when the release version of the game will be put on the market.
for now, Im waiting patientely on the game to come out and to injoy it
Comments
No, he laughs at anyone who feels innately entitled to things they are not. You are legally entitled to your paycheck. You are contractually employed, and exchange your labor for money. You are innately entitled to virtually nothing.
No, he laughs at anyone who feels innately entitled to things they are not. You are legally entitled to your paycheck. You are contractually employed, and exchange your labor for money. You are innately entitled to virtually nothing.
Well I'd prefer Tarsick answering for himself but, this isn't a case of someone thinking they are entitled to something but not actually being entitled to it. I am honestly baffled that you said that. Winning a contest entitles him to what they said he'd win. Is there seriously some doubt about that? He is also legally entitled to his prize. If some people won a state lottery fairly and never received their money, do you really think there wouldn't be a class action lawsuit? If I said "I [my name] will pay you 100 dollars to do such and such on a certain date," and you had documented proof of this (which isn't even always necessary in the case of verbal agreements) and actually did it. I would be legally obligated to pay you. As for your last statement, people are innately entitled to many things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
250 people won and will recieve their spot in beta. thats all you were "entitled" to and exactly what you WILL recieve. so dry your tears and get off your soap box
spellborn is working hard to complete their game, they give 2 shits about the people that want to "try before they buy" the game. thats all the whiners want. if you were sincerly interested in testing and helping Spellborn out then you wouldn't be crying your poor little eyes out on a forum talking shit about the company and those who disagree with your childish rants
This whole argument started because people attacked the OP for expressing his disappointment at not receiving his key. Why can't you respond with some sort of level-headedness? I wouldn't be surprised if your post was deleted by a mod.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Your response really shouldn't have been directed at me because I am not one of the 250 winners, nor do I even care about getting a key for spellborn.
This whole argument started because people attacked the OP for expressing his disappointment at not receiving his key. Why can't you respond with some sort of level-headedness? I wouldn't be surprised if your post was deleted by a mod.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Your response really shouldn't have been directed at me because I am not one of the 250 winners, nor do I even care about getting a key for spellborn.
Actually, Archaos, the particular problem we're discussing that involves Aethios never disputed his being entitled to receive a key, but being entitled to complain offensively about having not received it yet. Nobody here denied he or any of the other winners were entitled to a key, as that would pretty silly and wholly indefensible position.
As to the Bill of Rights, again, that is a document that legally entitles you to certain things within the United States, and is not recognized globally, much less universally. It is a fabrication of mankind, and while it seeks to protect humanity from itself, it really doesn't adequately address the human factor in terms of entitlement, although it is an excellent attempt. For instance, all human beings should be entitled to receive respect in accordance to how they treat others, rather than the observer's capability to show it, but oftentimes they don't. Further, because there is no law surrounding this, it is left up to us to learn such things through our experience and then begin practicing it, often without acknowledgment. And, because our egos require almost constant praise and validation, issues like this often get ignored in favor of those that will garner us more attention and reward.
EDIT: You and tarsick aren't on exactly the same side. The part of my post about him having changed sides applies only to him. Here is what he said "but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to." which in the context of his other posts, I took to mean that he, in fact, didn't think the winners were entitled to the keys. You interpreted his statement differently and said he meant "innately" entitled, but I saw no evidence of that.
Actually, Amorphism was the OP on this thread, and Aethios chimed in later. As to innate rights, those rights DO exist with or without civilization, however without a legal backing, they are not enforced, and thus are free to be ignored at the discretion of the individual. When we speak of innate entitlement, we speak of something woven into the fabric of the universe, something that exists above and beyond human acknowledgment, but that can and sometimes is brought into the realm of social order through laws, institutions (such as religion or family), or personal revelation. So, I interpreted Tarsick's post to mean that it is humorous to see people acting entitled when often the subject of their entitled feelings has little to do with actual entitlement.
For instance, all the winners of beta keys feel entitled to enter the beta at some point, and of course the sooner the better, right? However, not all of us feel entitled to rant about missed due dates, a lack of communication, or other choices the company has made. Of course I'm not suggesting that you allow yourself to be taken advantage of and just remain silent, but I am suggesting that whatever course of action one does take should be productive, and should serve the interests of the one taking the action, as well as those who might be indirectly affected by those actions. Coming into a forum and verbally vomiting a slew of hateful words about what you did not receive when you were promised to receive it doesn't help anyone.
knowing all the facts pertaining to a particular subject usually will help you form a better argument and help prevent misleading assumptions that arise from an incomplete understanding of the matter at hand
since the next phase of beta is still over a month away theres plenty of time to enroll in a reading comprehension class at your local public library
It's generally not a good idea to insult someone, and then in the same sentence ask them to stop arguing with you. If you didn't want to insult me, then you shouldn't have been so insulting in your previous posts.
I find YOUR critiques insulting, because you use terms like "petulant child," and insult my ability to "understand" your posts. I'm not an idiot, and I understand you perfectly. Perhaps you wish it weren't so, because that would make it easier to insult me without any repercussions.
"... it does not entitle you to complain, it entitles you to RESPOND."
So which is it? A complaint IS a response, and I am entitled to a response, therefore I am entitled to complain. No amount of spin or circular logic is going to get you out of this, as you've said it in your own words.
My choices to respond to your insults show that I'm not willing to back down when I feel I'm justified. I'm not going to be pushed around by people like you without some sort of defense. What's your point?
Wrong, again. I'm not discussing going postal on the lottery, and that wasn't involved anywhere in the discussion in my reply. The fact that YOU would bring it up in a discussion says volumes about your reaction to such an event.
Furthermore, I am INNATELY entitled to do whatever the hell I want. Nothing you can do is ever going to stop me from doing exactly what I want, when I want to do it. It's called "Free Will" and it cannot be taken away. Just because YOU deem them "inappropriate" doesn't mean that I shouldn't do them. If I am LEGALLY entitled to do it as well, that's just a bonus. I believe the word you were looking for here was "MORALLY," which really doesn't apply in this case, as I'm not harming anyone or taking anything away from anyone else.
Having said that, legally I am entitled to come to this forum and complain about not receiving my beta key, especially since the contest was held by MMORPG.com in its entirety. I am also innately entitled to do so. You are also entitled to complain about my complaining, which is exactly what you're doing. This whole thing is ridiculous, and you're making it out like I'm acting out of line just because YOU didn't want to read my complaints. Too bad. I can and I will. Deal with it.
If they aren't able to provide it, they shouldn't have held the contest in the first place. In any case, I stated before that I wouldn't mind if they simply gave us a date to look forward to, but at the time that wasn't the case. They had given us a date, which they then ignored completely, and failed to give notice for about two weeks afterwards. I am entitled to my key, and I was entitled to my key two months ago. I will continue to be entitled to my key until they give it to me, and that alone entitles me to complain about not having received it. If they are not able to provide it, that's THEIR problem, not mine. Their inability to do what they promised does not have any effect whatsoever on my entitlement to complaint.
No, no it doesn't. Your opinion means nothing. This applies just as much in the real world as it does on this virtual forum. Get over yourself.
No, I argued that I couldn't understand how people would get upset over me voicing my feelings over my entitlement to said promise. Whining was not involved in the equation at all.
More opinions, which mean absolutely nothing. Once again, I am entitled to do whatever I please on a public forum, and you are entitled to ignore me, or to respond, if you choose to do so. You are NOT entitled to tell me what I am entitled to.
You certainly aren't entitled to troll the forums in the manner you have done so far. Calling people names and then presuming to tell us what we are and are not "entitled" to do is pretty arrogant, and your pride is what's killing you here.
It smells like a duck, it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck. It must be a duck.
Stop mocking me, and stop insulting my intelligence, and I'll stop being insulted. It's really quite simple. Your insults don't even relate to the point you're trying to make, and are really just icing on the cake for me. You talk like an arrogant jerk, so you must be an arrogant jerk.
The thread in discussion is about receiving (or not receiving) the beta keys won in the beta contest.
Did you win the contest? Are you in the beta? Are you a member of TCoS or MMORPG.com Staff?
If any of these questions can be answered with a resounding "yes," then this thread has just become "your business." If not, then STFU and GTFO.
Your ability to berate and insult people in the open is a public matter. I have no need to hide what I'm trying to say to you, and it's an excellent example for the people of these forums to see.
I don't expect praise for my complaints, and I don't expect to get into the beta because I complained. I expect people to understand that I am angry about not receiving my key, and that I have a right to SAY that I am angry and voice my opinion on the matter. My opinion (which is the criticism I am entitled to BECAUSE it is my opinion) is none of your business, and you have no standing to label me ANYTHING because of it. My original posts were not directed at you, nor at anything you had to say about the matter.
If they knew beforehand they were working on marketing, they should have told us then. If they didn't, and decided later to work on it, they should have told us then. Instead, they waited until the day before (or something like that) to say "oh by the way, you aren't getting your key until NEXT month."
I'm not expecting to speed up the process, I'm hoping to let TCoS know that I'm not happy about their choices, and hopefully this will dissuade them from making similar choices in the future. As a customer of a business, I am entitled to tell them what I think about their actions and choices.
Again, I don't need your approval, or even your opinion. STFU and GTFO.
Maybe so, but it's certainly not your place to dispute it. If TCoS (or MMORPG.com) wants to come here and debate me, they are more than welcome to do so.
That would be trolling, as this thread and its contents are none of your business. You CAN continue to do so, and I will continue to call you a troll, and perhaps MMORPG.com Staff will do something about it. In the meantime... STFU and GTFO, troll.
I don't feel that I was insulting. In any case, I find it amusing that you're accusing ME of being insulting, after some of the crap you've said.
It entitles me to respond however I like. In my opinion, sharing my opinion with TCoS is being constructive in itself, as they know how I feel and can better serve my needs. Nothing is stopping you from doing the same.
Yes, yes it does. Why do you think YOU are entitled to respond to me?
The way you handled the situation makes me believe that you're lying to save face.
In any case, once again, it's none of your business how I feel, or why.
I agree, to some extent. It's not a person's choices that determine a person's worth, but WHY they made those choices. It's pretty clear from my previous posts why I chose to complain, and it wasn't just "to be a whiner."
I'm led to believe that the entire post quote above was meant as an effort to seem less like a troll and more like a passerby. You failed. YOU chose to come here and insult me, and you chose to make it seem like my actions were unreasonable. You didn't like my response, and that's fine. You don't have to agree with everything I say. However, disagreeing with me does NOT give you the right or entitle you to judge me based on my opinion, or to insult me for my means of expressing it. I'll do what I want, and you can keep your comments to yourself.
Having said that, I do hope that you choose not to respond further to my replies, as you suggested above that you might. Neither side of the debate has anything to do with the topic at hand, and (as I stated before) since you aren't part of the beta contest, you really don't have any say in what happens at this point. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm quite happy to end this attempt at communicating with you, Aethios, as it's apparent that further discourse would be futile. You are incorrect in assuming, however, that I have no stake in what is going on here. I AM a beta key winner, and I am a part of everything that is going on in this forum. Even if I were not, I would still be fully justified in everything I've said to you, and all people who can see beyond the end of their own noses understand this as well. I won't suggest to you that I approached you initially with love in my heart and an olive branch in my hand. I was confrontational on purpose, I was direct on purpose, and I was derogatory towards your completely irrational attitudes on purpose. There truly was no other way for me to suggest to you that your ideas on entitlement place you in the category of those who have divorced themselves almost completely from the human element of society. Luckily for you, the general importance of a person is measured more by how often they use their credit cards than how familiar they are with the human condition. I did not expect anything from you that you did not demonstrate. Forums are a place for all of us to learn from each other, to gain insights into the nature of people, in general, and hopefully end up better off than we started. I admit that sort of thing doesn't happen often, but in discussions like this, I do think forum readers in general are well-served by these sorts of discussions. We may as well leave all of this where it lies, as I have no wish to upset you further or subject others in this forum to further hostility, even if it's not directed at them, personally.
Hi everyone...
Can I please ask you all to try and focus on the topic, which is the missing keys... not the US constitution or each other
I was only a member of this site at the time I won a beta key to Roma Victor, anyone around for that knows the winners (including me) waited almost 6 months (from memory) to get in. So I CAN APPRECIATE the angst of those who won and why this thread has gone the way it has, it happened in the RV forums too.
I have asked management (of this site) to look into it and provide any further information, if any is available. Until that time, please play nicely so I dont have to start pushing your buttons
Thanks... merry Xmas
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
You'll be invited.
As Beta Phase 2 has ended past week, you won't be able to test it though. But you'll be able to join the Beta brawl when Beta Phase 3 starts, and it should happen early Q1.
Since then, hang to your hat, and be sure to check your email box.
Note: if someone already posted this and i didn't notice i apoligize as i didn't take the time to read through the 9 pages of this thread. Also if someone did post this and you all think i'm an asshat because i didn't read through the entire thread don't bother flaming me cause to me this case is closed.[slams case-file closed]
Whatever you say, buddy.
ATTACK OF THE WORD SPAM!!!!! RUNNNNN!!!!
I agree with you, its a small company with great ideas but they dont have a big team behind it like sony & blizard has.
I think there complete focus is on the game itself rather than marketing and the other things that come with an mmo.
Sure giving a download link that is not working or will give you the old version of the game is not good marketing, But its not a game killer either.
Everything will be alright, and service will improve when the release version of the game will be put on the market.
for now, Im waiting patientely on the game to come out and to injoy it
cheers