Originally posted by Aethios Wow, I'm surprised at the negativity of the responses. I really thought that my reply was totally appropriate to the topic at hand. After all, Shae, I'm not asking them to jump. I'm asking them to put down the crappy marketing materials and put out the server they promised over a month ago. Is that really so bad? I'd understand the hostility if I were simply whining about the date being too far ahead, or even that they hadn't set a date. Yes, in those situations I would be a whiner.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
the above poster is quoted due to the strong resemblance to truth that the above foremetioned post contains.
Originally posted by delateur Originally posted by Aethios Wow, I'm surprised at the negativity of the responses. I really thought that my reply was totally appropriate to the topic at hand. After all, Shae, I'm not asking them to jump. I'm asking them to put down the crappy marketing materials and put out the server they promised over a month ago. Is that really so bad? I'd understand the hostility if I were simply whining about the date being too far ahead, or even that they hadn't set a date. Yes, in those situations I would be a whiner.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
Quoted for more Truthiness than the Colbert Report.
Originally posted by Aethios Wow, I'm surprised at the negativity of the responses. I really thought that my reply was totally appropriate to the topic at hand. After all, Shae, I'm not asking them to jump. I'm asking them to put down the crappy marketing materials and put out the server they promised over a month ago. Is that really so bad? I'd understand the hostility if I were simply whining about the date being too far ahead, or even that they hadn't set a date. Yes, in those situations I would be a whiner.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
Wow, nicely said. Something like this response should be stickied on the top of every game forum on this site. To many complainers and bashers in the online gaming comunity.
Wow, nicely said. Something like this response should be stickied on the top of every game forum on this site. To many complainers and bashers in the online gaming comunity.
Complaining is an integral part of assuring that you get good service. If you order a steak well done and you get rare, you need to complain.
However, in this case the game has not been released so there is no need to complain. Patience would be better suited in this case. Even the beta key winners have not really been shafted yet... It is not like anyone else went ahead of them in game right?
If you have been wronged by a game or the company that releases it, they should receive criticism. In reality we are the customers and should be heard so that maybe, just maybe, the companies will make the product WE want instead of just some crap to make THEM more money.
Originally posted by Aethios Wow, I'm surprised at the negativity of the responses. I really thought that my reply was totally appropriate to the topic at hand. After all, Shae, I'm not asking them to jump. I'm asking them to put down the crappy marketing materials and put out the server they promised over a month ago. Is that really so bad? I'd understand the hostility if I were simply whining about the date being too far ahead, or even that they hadn't set a date. Yes, in those situations I would be a whiner.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't be getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
Edit: Corrected a misspelling.
I'd like to correct YOU, sir, on a few minsunderstandings on your part.
First off, I don't feel entitled anything due to my disappointment, as you have so plainly and clearly assumed, but instead I am entitled to be in the beta because (and this is the important part) they have promised me I will be in the beta.
So you're annoyed that I'm annoyed that I'm not in beta, blah blah blah. More namecalling, and that's fine. You have your methods, and I have mine. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have subscribed or purchased this game anyways, so it's really not that big of a deal.
My real irritation stems from the fact that this company has repeatedly promised that certain things will happen by a certain date, and repeatedly failed to meet their own deadlines, even for the simplest things. Even having a good excuse would be reasonable, but "we didn't invite you yet because we felt like marketing instead" is NOT a good excuse.
Having said that, I'll bring focus back to my main point, which is that the aforementioned grievances over which I am supposedly whining are not against myself (and if they were, I would simply leave and not worry about it) but against this company itself. This game looks to be promising, but many people will never know because this company is selling itself short. Stop screwing around, guys, and do what you said you'd do 2 months ago.
Pistols, at dawn, that is the only way to truely settle this! In all seriousness, I have been waiting patiently, but also am starting to agree with some of the opinions stated here. I view this similarly as to playing the lottery. I'm sure if anyone, regardless of the person, had won the lottery (which is also a game) and had been promised their winnings again and again, they would complain. It's the nature of gamers generally to complain, or to complain about other gamers complaining, but either way, complain. I certainly feel that it's warranted in this case or at least it's becoming more so. I guess the thing that is concerning me is there are several threads about this topic over at tcos.com on the forums, and all of them seem to be getting locked to new posts. I would hate to think that the direction of the conversation or opinions of the fans were being controlled away from anything negative by the moderators. At any rate, all this waiting and promising without delivering is begining to be a little anti-climactic, sort of like most MMO's that are released these days. We see tons of hype, but when it comes down to it, it's just a watered out version of 4 different concepts we've seen before in some other game. I will continue to look forward to playing in the beta for this game, but honestly, I'm not expecting to ever realize that end. Since MMO's seem to be about 1 part concept and 9 parts implementation and implementation is all about delivering what was promised, my skepticism grows with every passing week. Hopefully, it will all be worth the wait though, and we will all be pleasantly supprised. With the recent releases in this market, we sure need a good suprise!
Originally posted by delateur I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult.
I don't believe that. You could've responded in a much less condescending manner. "Despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences your thought processes seem largely devoide of logic." smacks of unnecessary smarm to me. Your response reads like a flame until the end when you declare that you're not trying to be insulting. The OP has the right to complain that they messed up. Heck, he has the right to complain about whatever he wants. I'm sure that to some people, TCOS is losing credibility. I think the only reason most people in this thread started vehemently attacking the OP and people that agree with him is because they're jealous they didn't get the beta key. Which is ironically just as childish. "That guy got something that I want so he doesn't have the right to complain about not actually receiving it!" If you won the lottery and then never received it, I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't also complain. ALL the OP was saying is that he'd like to be informed of what's going on with the key he won. Oh god, what a crybaby.
EDIT: Jwshaw88, I unwittingly stole your lottery example. Please don't sue.
Originally posted by Archaos Originally posted by delateur I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult.
I don't believe that. You could've responded in a much less condescending manner. "Despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences your thought processes seem largely devoide of logic." smacks of unnecessary smarm to me. Your response reads like a flame until the end when you declare that you're not trying to be insulting. The OP has the right to complain that they messed up. Heck, he has the right to complain about whatever he wants. I'm sure that to some people, TCOS is losing credibility. I think the only reason most people in this thread started vehemently attacking the OP and people that agree with them is because they're jealous they didn't get the beta key. Which is ironically just as childish. "That guy got something that I want so he doesn't have the right to complain about not actually receiving it!" If you won the lottery and then never received it, I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't also complain. ALL the OP was saying is that he'd like to be informed of what's going on with the key he won. Oh god, what a crybaby.
EDIT: Jwshaw88, I unwittingly stole your lottery example. Please don't sue.
My point exactly.
Calling me names and then covering it up with a lot of really big words, Delateur, doesn't make you better (or even smarter) than any of the other trolls here. You're still a troll, albeit a refined one.
Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
It's funny, but something was just bothering me about this statement, if it could be called a statement (yes, i'm implying logic since logic was touted as the medium with which this response was formated). In the first sentence, you tell him this event does not entitle him to an "outburst", and then in the second sentence, you tell him that an event, regardless of the circumstance, entitles him to a response of his choosing. So, in the spirit of logic, I would like to call a fallacy. You cannot logically tell him he has no right to a complaint, then tell him that he is entitled to just that.
Furthermore, I would also postulate that what he does and does not do in an open forum dedicated to the topic he posted about is not under your purview of control and therefore, telling him he can or cannot do anything is strictly your opinion of what he should or should not do and not a fully formed logical statement. Thusly, I conclude that, while your reply was well formated, verbose and may have been logically formed into a flowing thought pattern, it is in fact a vague and illogical arguement.
I would suggest that if you wish to attack someone based on logic in the future, you should actually consider using logic in your response. Not everyone who comes to this forum is an idiot and not everyone here speaks perfect or fluent english. The point of a forum about gaming is not to school someone in rhetoric, but to talk about the games we play, share opinions, talk about troubles, ask for advice, etc. Attacking someone without a strong basis of anything other than your opinion is likely to make you look like the fool to those who are educated enough to see the flaws in your response.
Originally posted by Tarsick there's been far too many intelectual posts in this thread
so to help remedy this situation i'll present the following
CRY MORE NOOB
Very compelling argument that I think changes the entire face of this conversation.
Yes, rather than be intelligent, let's get right down to what gamers are percieved as and pacify the masses with things like....
"dood, u suk"
What's funny is, those folks with this type of mentality seem to be the ones that drive the market, leading to a lot of games that do suck. I've been playing MMO's in one form or another for the past 8 years and I've watched the community degrade further and further as popularity increased. I guess maybe it's time to retire.
Originally posted by jwshaw88 Originally posted by Paks Originally posted by Tarsick there's been far too many intelectual posts in this thread
so to help remedy this situation i'll present the following
CRY MORE NOOB
Very compelling argument that I think changes the entire face of this conversation.
Yes, rather than be intelligent, let's get right down to what gamers are percieved as and pacify the masses with things like....
"dood, u suk"
What's funny is, those folks with this type of mentality seem to be the ones that drive the market, leading to a lot of games that do suck. I've been playing MMO's in one form or another for the past 8 years and I've watched the community degrade further and further as popularity increased. I guess maybe it's time to retire.
hmmm... perhaps it is time to retire.
i mean, with all the crying you obviously could use a nap and if you sleep long enough maybe you'll wake in time for the next phase of beta^^
Originally posted by jwshaw88 Originally posted by delateur Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
It's funny, but something was just bothering me about this statement, if it could be called a statement (yes, i'm implying logic since logic was touted as the medium with which this response was formated). In the first sentence, you tell him this event does not entitle him to an "outburst", and then in the second sentence, you tell him that an event, regardless of the circumstance, entitles him to a response of his choosing. So, in the spirit of logic, I would like to call a fallacy. You cannot logically tell him he has no right to a complaint, then tell him that he is entitled to just that. Furthermore, I would also postulate that what he does and does not do in an open forum dedicated to the topic he posted about is not under your purview of control and therefore, telling him he can or cannot do anything is strictly your opinion of what he should or should not do and not a fully formed logical statement. Thusly, I conclude that, while your reply was well formated, verbose and may have been logically formed into a flowing thought pattern, it is in fact a vague and illogical argument. I would suggest that if you wish to attack someone based on logic in the future, you should actually consider using logic in your response. Not everyone who comes to this forum is an idiot and not everyone here speaks perfect or fluent English. The point of a forum about gaming is not to school someone in rhetoric, but to talk about the games we play, share opinions, talk about troubles, ask for advice, etc. Attacking someone without a strong basis of anything other than your opinion is likely to make you look like the fool to those who are educated enough to see the flaws in your response.
It's funny, but for someone who feels qualified to remark on the logic of my statement, you do very little to demonstrate command of the subject you are critiquing. Let me make it a bit more simple. Being denied something does not entitle you to complain, whine, or gripe, it entitles you to RESPOND. There is no fallacy, no lack of logic, nor a lack of common sense in that statement. The point of the message is quite simple, but for those who would rather try to justify their own outbursts, perhaps it won't be heard. I agree, the post was rather wordy and a bit lofty, but no more so than the poster's attitude to which I was replying. I was trying to meet this person on common ground, and establish that what he felt he deserved, he did not. It was a post against entitled behavior and a post supporting thoughtful and intelligent behavior, with a bit of sensitivity thrown in for good measure. It doesn't require much thought at all to simply lash out when you're disappointed. It requires a great deal of character to understand what you are owed, what one can reasonably expect, and how one can respond based on one's expectations. Nuanced, matured behavior is far more difficult to master than childish knee-jerk behavior, as Aethios and many others have demonstrated. And for those who have difficulty distinguishing an insult from a critique, an insult focuses on a person as though their being and their actions are indistinguishable from one another (ex: You are a jerk.), while a critique focuses on the actions of a person and describes how they appear to the observer. I in no way suggested, or am suggesting, that Aethios is _________. He's a person who made a choice, which is nothing special in and of itself, but the circumstances surrounding that choice, as well as the choice itself, encouraged me to respond.
Simply put, Aethios, and any who share his sentiment, are behaving quite similarly to spoiled children, and are using the circumstances (a late release, a broken promise, time spent on marketing rather than getting the U.S. server up and running, etc.) to justify that behavior, and are currently fighting hard to defend that behavior rather than maturing, seeing their folly, and waiting patiently, or perhaps politely requesting another update from the company as to the state of the game. You see, if you're unable to look past your own disappointment and see the big picture, the reasons for why the company chose to do what it did, the difficulty involved in making a MMOG, and the probable upset they are feeling at having let down their eagerly awaiting beta testers, if you can't imagine things outside your own feelings of being betrayed, then you aren't logical, you aren't intelligent, and you aren't sensitive. You're simply a person who desires desperately to defend yourself and anything you produce, including infantile rants.
As to the sincerity of my final statement, it WAS indeed sincere. The alternative to Aethios maturing into a full-fledged adult capable of putting his own disappointments in perspective are far worse than anything a vindictive mind could wish on him.
@jwshaw88: I expect that any lack of logic you might think you found in my original post stems not from your excellent abilities to analyze such things, but rather a subconscious desire to justify your own rants and flames, not that I consider you an espouser of either. Your inability to grasp the part you quoted can be seen in the complete glossing over of a single, capitalized word: ANYTHING. I CAN logically tell him he's not entitled to an outburst, and instead tell him he's entitled to a response to the situation. Of course it takes all the wind out of his sails in so doing, as it does yours, but that's the point of my message, isn't it, or did you miss that? Furthermore, I at no point suggested that he can or cannot do anything, I asserted no control or censorship of his behavior, and while I stated an opinion, as we all do, the BASIS for my opinion is far more sound than the BASIS for his, which I demonstrated through actual logic, rather than what people attempt to pass off as logic oftentimes.
Be that as it may, I remain steadfast in hoping ALL of the disappointed folks out there can remain patient, understanding, and sympathetic in the midst of that disappointment (and yes, I include myself in this). I also am not seeking to exclude myself from making inappropriate outbursts. What I learned and what I share here I learned from first-hand experience, as well as from books that allow me to better articulate that experience.
Originally posted by Tarsick hmmm... perhaps it is time to retire.
i mean, with all the crying you obviously could use a nap and if you sleep long enough maybe you'll wake in time for the next phase of beta^^
LOL, whether I agree with him or not, I think I would rather read Delateur's long posts over and over than hear another word from you.
Delateur,
I don't fault your opinions, and don't necessarily agree with how you stated them, but I can at least see the point in what you have said and appreciate that you seem to have a level headed approach to such things, unlike this troll listed above here. If you haven't read the posts over on tcos.com, they may give a bit more insight into how folks have been treated for just simply saying "hi, i won this thing, any idea on when we'll get contacted?". I think my point is, if you ask a question, regardless of how it's posed, it deserves some sort of mature answer because giving a stupid response to a question you "feel" is stupid really only perpetuates stupidity. These comments here and over there (not your comments at all Delateur) have really given me insight into what I think I will expect from the community. For all I know, the folks who would give a good response are off playing the beta already, but looking past beta, who is waiting to get into the game? Unfortunately, it's the folks who are responding. I think I'll just give this title some time to mature after release, then see what folks have to say about it before giving it too much more thought. 2006 wasn't very impressive for this market and it's offerings, that has jaded me to trying new games at the expense of 50$ per game.
And for the record, I never complained about not getting the key, I've waited as long as anyone else has without any real complaints. However, I did take up the anti-troll torch on occasion. You'd think I would like playing a Paladin or something in game, but to be honest, I'm more of a Shadowknight. Wouldn't the world be a better place if you could death touch someone every now and again?
Being denied something does not entitle you to complain, whine, or gripe, it entitles you to RESPOND. There is no fallacy, no lack of logic, nor a lack of common sense in that statement.
RE * SPOND [ri-spond] - verb
1. To make a reply; answer.
I can't believe I'm being forced to look words up in the dictionary for you. As much as you tout your grasp of the English language and your intellectuality, you're really missing the point here.
So now, according to you, the apparent "Master of English," complaint is no longer considered a response. How, then, would you propose we respond when the local fast food restaurant messes up our sandwich? How do we respond when the credit card company overcharges us on a bill? How do we respond if we win the lottery and they refuse to give us our winnings?
The last example is the most important one, althoughthey all apply to the point I'm trying to make. Winning this contest,in and of itself, has entitled me to the beta key. You can come here and yell out loud all you want that I'm not entitled, but the fact remains that I am. Complaint is a natural way for people to voice their opinions about the service (or the lack thereof) they are receiving.
It was a post against entitled behavior and a post supporting thoughtful and intelligent behavior, with a bit of sensitivity thrown in for good measure.
If namecalling and berating are what pass for "sensitivity" to you, I hope you never have children.
It doesn't require much thought at all to simply lash out when you're disappointed.
You would certainly know first-hand, wouldn't you?
It requires a great deal of character to understand what you are owed, what one can reasonably expect, and how one can respond based on one's expectations.
It takes a great deal of character to compliment someone who is doing poorly, but trying their hardest. It takes a great deal of character to stand up for someone else when they're being pushed around. It takes a great deal of character to return a FULL wallet to someone who's lost it.
Coming to an anonymous forum to attack people for something that's none of your business takes ZERO character.
Nuanced, matured behavior is far more difficult to master than childish knee-jerk behavior, as Aethios and many others have demonstrated.
Do you even know what "nuanced" means? There was nothing subtle about the three-page report you posted. I'm assuming you were trying to say that you're more mature than me. I must've missed that part somewhere in between all the names you've called me so far.
I in no way suggested, or am suggesting, that Aethios is _________. He's a person who made a choice, which is nothing special in and of itself, but the circumstances surrounding that choice, as well as the choice itself, encouraged me to respond.
We're only as good as the choices we make. Would you disagree?
So, according to this logic, my choice to come here and complain about not receiving the key I was promised over two months ago makes me a complainer. I have no problem with that. However, what does that mean for TCoS, who chose to develop marketing materials instead of the beta servers? What does that mean for you, who chose to come here and accuse me of all these "childish, knee-jerk" actions?
I at no point suggested that he can or cannot do anything, I asserted no control or censorship of his behavior...
EN * TI * TLE [en-tahyt-l] - verb
1. To give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something.
You seem to think you're perfectly able to determine what I am and am not "entitled" to, which is the same as determining what I can and cannot do. Just because you didn't actually USE the words "you can't" doesn't mean they weren't implied through definition.
and while I stated an opinion, as we all do, the BASIS for my opinion is far more sound than the BASIS for his, which I demonstrated through actual logic, rather than what people attempt to pass off as logic oftentimes.
The basis for my opinion is that TCoS should have mailed me my beta key two months ago. What's your excuse again?
You're calling me names, that's what it comes down to. You need to get off your pedestal, understand that you're no better than the rest of us, and just grow up. You're a troll, hidden behind misused fancy wording and less-than-perfect grammar.
Originally posted by Aethios You're calling me names, that's what it comes down to. You need to get off your pedestal, understand that you're no better than the rest of us, and just grow up. You're a troll, hidden behind misused fancy wording and less-than-perfect grammar.
Your post was right on the money. Either Delateur doesn't understand that he is coming across as condescending, self-important, and arrogant, or he is just being a jerk and thinks no one will notice if he is eloquent enough. I've read all his posts and I think I can sum up everything he's said in this thread:
"People who expect their winnings from a contest are babies. I am not being insulting. Everyone in this thread that disagrees with me is stupid. I am a sensitive caring individual. Screw you. I am a wonderful person with no flaws and I clearly own a well-worn thesaurus."
disapointment is understandable. i don't think anyone ever said it wasn't. i don't have problems with people that are disapointed, i don't even have problems with the ones who think spellborn is losing credibility or feel as if they have been screwed in some way. but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to. i suppose i should be thankful for the ones who whine and bitch though, after all it is great entertainment
Originally posted by Tarsick disapointment is understandable. i don't think anyone ever said it wasn't. i don't have problems with people that are disapointed, i don't even have problems with the ones who think spellborn is losing credibility or feel as if they have been screwed in some way. but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to. i suppose i should be thankful for the ones who whine and bitch though, after all it is great entertainment
I am entitled to a beta key because I won the contest. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If someone holds a contest, there is a certain assumption that you WILL receive the prize at the end. You can't just say "no, nope, we've changed our minds and you MIGHT have it by next year."
Even as an MMO player in general, if I hadn't won the contest, I STILL wouldn't be putting up with this crap. It's invitation for them to do the same shit to you later on, in a different form. You guys are just begging to get ripped off.
Originally posted by Tarsick but i do laugh at everyone who feels entitled to whatever it is they feel they were entitled to.
You... laugh at anyone who feels entitled to anything...? That seems odd... I feel entitled to a paycheck because I worked many hours today. That's probably hilarious to you.
Perhaps it's time for you to just drop it. It's pretty apparent you don't think all that clearly by how you post, although I did have some hope for you initially, which was the point of my message, to help clarify your thinking, NOT to insult you or to start some sort of insult contest. It's obvious that you find critiques of your behavior insulting, because you instantly lash out at those who do so. I'm not surprised by your response, but knowing this, I have no intention of engaging you on this subject after this final response to your post. You are always free to choose your own path, and I have no personal stake riding on your ability to grasp the concepts I'm posing to you.
1) Being entitled to a response is more than simply replying with the first thing that strikes you as "okay". I never said complaining is NOT a response, only that it is one of MANY responses available to you. Some will improve your character, some will worsen it. I think it goes without saying how a great deal of your choices have affected you in this post I'm replying to alone. As to your examples, they are each unique, and each have appropriate and inappropriate responses, none of which you are INNATELY entitled to. If the law is on your side, that makes you LEGALLY entitled. It means that the outcome is more likely to turn out in your favor in a court of law. Each situation warrants its own response based on the elements involved in it. To take one of your examples, the lottery, the lottery has established methods for how it pays its winners, and as a person who purchased the ticket, you have legal recourse to address the situation. Nothing is stopping you from choosing to drive to the lottery headquarters and opening up on everyone inside with an AK-47, but it would be a poor choice among many possible choices, and that adequately sums up your postings in here, also. In both cases, whether you sued the lottery commission, or you gunned them down, neither option was one you were innately entitled to.
I did not say you were not entitled to your key, only that you weren't entitled to rant about not having it as soon as you would have liked. You're also not entitled to something that can not be provided. Yes, you won a key, and unfortunately they are not able to give it to you as soon as they would have liked to. You felt entitled to gripe about it, and people, myself included, have disagreed with you. That, sadly enough, invalidates your entitlement. You argued that you couldn't understand how people would get upset over you voicing your feelings in a way that closely resembled whining, and of course the reason you couldn't understand it was because you were ENTITLED to whine because they had not provided what they promised. However, in a public forum, nobody is entitled to such things, and you will be called on it. You were, and still you protest what would be obvious to anyone who had the presence of mind to sit back and think about it a bit. You might very well be entitled to a beta key, but you will never be entitled to whine about it showing up late, sorry. You are, however, entitled to continue to make poor choices, whining being one of any number of others, and I and others will continue to be entitled to berate you for them as long as you choose to voice such drivel in a public forum.
2) Namecalling: I have not called you any names, but rather have described in exacting detail the nature of your unpleasant actions to you in an attempt to help you better see your own folly. It was never intended to be anything other than that, and if you find it unpleasant, it is only due to the behavior of the individual I am describing.
3) The aspects of character: Your examples of what constitute character are valid, those are all excellent behaviors, and hopefully they are examples from your own life. The final assessment of my actions was completely false, and bears no similarity to what I am attempting to do, nor does it accurately reflect the situation. My posting here makes this post the business of everyone who reads it, as does your posting here. I'm not exactly sure how you expect people to think you're entitled to whine when you can't even grasp that. You've posted your feelings on whining, and I've rebutted them. If you wanted it to be a private matter, you certainly know how to send private messages, don't you?
4) The choices we make: Your choice to come in here and complain about TCoS and then defend your tirade as if it was some god-given right to behave poorly and receive nothing except praise for such actions points to far worse labels than just a "complainer." Behaving as though you are entitled to things that you are not (in this case, you're entitled to enter the beta when it's ready, not when they SAY it will be ready, you're entitled to complain, but you're not entitled to complaint without criticism, especially because you lack the insight, patience or tact to stay your tongue altogether) far exceeds mere complaining.
As to the choices TCoS made, I fully expect they make choices based on what they believe will ultimately produce the best possible scenario for a successful game. I further believe that if they chose to take advantage of this marketing opportunity and that it had the result of slowing down our entry into the game, that it was necessary for some reason, perhaps there was a limited time that they would have access to the performers, or perhaps they were given an amazing deal that was time constrained. But really, in the end, who cares? The end result is still the same, and we're still waiting to get in on the beta. I'm not looking to point fingers, I'm looking to play what looks to be a fun game, and I don't see how complaining, and then defending those complaints, does anything to speed up the process. You're welcome to get upset over whatever you like, but don't expect me or anyone else who is able to cope with a bit of disappointment to pat you on the back for it.
4) Entitle: To be entitled is to have a right that is indisputable. You have no right to complain over this situation WITHOUT being disputed. That is why you aren't entitled to complain. You CAN complain, you continue to complain, and probably will for some years to come, but you'll never be entitled to it. I and anyone else who chooses to do so can contradict you, can call you on your behavior, and deal with it in any way that doesn't violate your human rights. I'm sure that doesn't sit well with you, based on your responses, but that's how it works, so I hope you get used to it.
5) Basis: The basis for your complaining is that TCoS didn't do what they said they'd do, and you were upset by this, and you chose to share that feeling in a public forum in an insulting way. You seem to think that the violation of an agreement in the form of a contest entitles you to express outrage in a non-constructive way, just as you feel that my calling you on such behavior entitles you to respond in a similar fashion. Feeling this way only serves to limit your ability to grasp a situation beyond how it impacts you personally, and is why I called you on it in the first place. It certainly was not to call you names or test my skills at verbose flaming.
As to my assessment of myself, I think I've made it quite clear that I've lost my temper on occasion, and that I'm disappointed and would love to be in the beta as much as anyone else. I'm not one to believe that a person's intrinsic worth is measured by their choices, but those same choices DO determine how easily that intrinsic worth is visible for all to see.
Comments
now you continuing to use dirt? or you gonna come out with a proper reply?
btw im on TCoS forum for most of the day, spending my time help others or defending myself from hungry animals(figure of speech).
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
the above poster is quoted due to the strong resemblance to truth that the above foremetioned post contains.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
Quoted for more Truthiness than the Colbert Report.
Allow me to correct your faulty logic:
People respond to whiners who act entitled to something they are NOT entitled to because of that reason alone. You aren't entitled to what you believe yourself to be, and believing this has produced an attitude in you which will evoke hostility. Lacking the awareness to understand that not receiving something when it is promised due to the choices this company has made does not entitle you to any sort of angry outburst, period. Like everything in life, an event entitles you to a response, and that response can be ANYTHING you choose, including actions that paint you more like a grownup and less like a petulant child.
There are certain feelings that arise when one is told something will happen a certain way and it doesn't, and being upset is a natural response, but your disappointment does not entitle you to anything, any more than the reason for it arising. You've already made some poor choices in how you've chosen to voice your disappointment. What you do from there is entirely up to you. You could, for instance, realize you're being an utter prat and correct your behavior, turn over a new leaf, and start to exercise a bit of self-control and patience. You could instead become even more bull-headed, refuse to log into Spellborn at all, and "show them" what it means to disappoint a potential customer. They won't bet getting YOUR money, that'll show them! I'm sure that you can think of dozens more responses running the full spectrum of graciousness to vindictiveness that are yours for the choosing. Just don't go fooling yourself into thinking that acts "against" you entitle you to any sort of specific response. Doing so will close you off to more than just the eager anticipation of trying what appears to be an amazing game.
To instruct by means of example, if you're entitled to make angry outbursts over situations like this, then we are entitled to tear you a new one because you're ungrateful, impatient, and demanding. Of course, I don't feel entitled to do this, rather I feel compelled to do so, since, despite your ability to form words into coherent sentences, your thought processes seem largely devoid of logic.
I hope my words don't strike you as insulting, as I did not intend this as an insult. I do sincerely hope you can find it in your heart to forgive them the delay and enter Spellborn with an open mind and an eagerness to test the game and make helpful suggestions.
Wow, nicely said. Something like this response should be stickied on the top of every game forum on this site. To many complainers and bashers in the online gaming comunity.
However, in this case the game has not been released so there is no need to complain. Patience would be better suited in this case. Even the beta key winners have not really been shafted yet... It is not like anyone else went ahead of them in game right?
If you have been wronged by a game or the company that releases it, they should receive criticism. In reality we are the customers and should be heard so that maybe, just maybe, the companies will make the product WE want instead of just some crap to make THEM more money.
I'd like to correct YOU, sir, on a few minsunderstandings on your part.
First off, I don't feel entitled anything due to my disappointment, as you have so plainly and clearly assumed, but instead I am entitled to be in the beta because (and this is the important part) they have promised me I will be in the beta.
So you're annoyed that I'm annoyed that I'm not in beta, blah blah blah. More namecalling, and that's fine. You have your methods, and I have mine. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have subscribed or purchased this game anyways, so it's really not that big of a deal.
My real irritation stems from the fact that this company has repeatedly promised that certain things will happen by a certain date, and repeatedly failed to meet their own deadlines, even for the simplest things. Even having a good excuse would be reasonable, but "we didn't invite you yet because we felt like marketing instead" is NOT a good excuse.
Having said that, I'll bring focus back to my main point, which is that the aforementioned grievances over which I am supposedly whining are not against myself (and if they were, I would simply leave and not worry about it) but against this company itself. This game looks to be promising, but many people will never know because this company is selling itself short. Stop screwing around, guys, and do what you said you'd do 2 months ago.
EDIT: Jwshaw88, I unwittingly stole your lottery example. Please don't sue.
EDIT: Jwshaw88, I unwittingly stole your lottery example. Please don't sue.
My point exactly.
Calling me names and then covering it up with a lot of really big words, Delateur, doesn't make you better (or even smarter) than any of the other trolls here. You're still a troll, albeit a refined one.
It's funny, but something was just bothering me about this statement, if it could be called a statement (yes, i'm implying logic since logic was touted as the medium with which this response was formated). In the first sentence, you tell him this event does not entitle him to an "outburst", and then in the second sentence, you tell him that an event, regardless of the circumstance, entitles him to a response of his choosing. So, in the spirit of logic, I would like to call a fallacy. You cannot logically tell him he has no right to a complaint, then tell him that he is entitled to just that.
Furthermore, I would also postulate that what he does and does not do in an open forum dedicated to the topic he posted about is not under your purview of control and therefore, telling him he can or cannot do anything is strictly your opinion of what he should or should not do and not a fully formed logical statement. Thusly, I conclude that, while your reply was well formated, verbose and may have been logically formed into a flowing thought pattern, it is in fact a vague and illogical arguement.
I would suggest that if you wish to attack someone based on logic in the future, you should actually consider using logic in your response. Not everyone who comes to this forum is an idiot and not everyone here speaks perfect or fluent english. The point of a forum about gaming is not to school someone in rhetoric, but to talk about the games we play, share opinions, talk about troubles, ask for advice, etc. Attacking someone without a strong basis of anything other than your opinion is likely to make you look like the fool to those who are educated enough to see the flaws in your response.
so to help remedy this situation i'll present the following
CRY MORE NOOB
Yes, rather than be intelligent, let's get right down to what gamers are percieved as and pacify the masses with things like....
"dood, u suk"
What's funny is, those folks with this type of mentality seem to be the ones that drive the market, leading to a lot of games that do suck. I've been playing MMO's in one form or another for the past 8 years and I've watched the community degrade further and further as popularity increased. I guess maybe it's time to retire.
Yes, rather than be intelligent, let's get right down to what gamers are percieved as and pacify the masses with things like....
"dood, u suk"
What's funny is, those folks with this type of mentality seem to be the ones that drive the market, leading to a lot of games that do suck. I've been playing MMO's in one form or another for the past 8 years and I've watched the community degrade further and further as popularity increased. I guess maybe it's time to retire.
hmmm... perhaps it is time to retire.
i mean, with all the crying you obviously could use a nap and if you sleep long enough maybe you'll wake in time for the next phase of beta^^
Furthermore, I would also postulate that what he does and does not do in an open forum dedicated to the topic he posted about is not under your purview of control and therefore, telling him he can or cannot do anything is strictly your opinion of what he should or should not do and not a fully formed logical statement. Thusly, I conclude that, while your reply was well formated, verbose and may have been logically formed into a flowing thought pattern, it is in fact a vague and illogical argument.
I would suggest that if you wish to attack someone based on logic in the future, you should actually consider using logic in your response. Not everyone who comes to this forum is an idiot and not everyone here speaks perfect or fluent English. The point of a forum about gaming is not to school someone in rhetoric, but to talk about the games we play, share opinions, talk about troubles, ask for advice, etc. Attacking someone without a strong basis of anything other than your opinion is likely to make you look like the fool to those who are educated enough to see the flaws in your response.
It's funny, but for someone who feels qualified to remark on the logic of my statement, you do very little to demonstrate command of the subject you are critiquing. Let me make it a bit more simple. Being denied something does not entitle you to complain, whine, or gripe, it entitles you to RESPOND. There is no fallacy, no lack of logic, nor a lack of common sense in that statement. The point of the message is quite simple, but for those who would rather try to justify their own outbursts, perhaps it won't be heard. I agree, the post was rather wordy and a bit lofty, but no more so than the poster's attitude to which I was replying. I was trying to meet this person on common ground, and establish that what he felt he deserved, he did not. It was a post against entitled behavior and a post supporting thoughtful and intelligent behavior, with a bit of sensitivity thrown in for good measure. It doesn't require much thought at all to simply lash out when you're disappointed. It requires a great deal of character to understand what you are owed, what one can reasonably expect, and how one can respond based on one's expectations. Nuanced, matured behavior is far more difficult to master than childish knee-jerk behavior, as Aethios and many others have demonstrated. And for those who have difficulty distinguishing an insult from a critique, an insult focuses on a person as though their being and their actions are indistinguishable from one another (ex: You are a jerk.), while a critique focuses on the actions of a person and describes how they appear to the observer. I in no way suggested, or am suggesting, that Aethios is _________. He's a person who made a choice, which is nothing special in and of itself, but the circumstances surrounding that choice, as well as the choice itself, encouraged me to respond.
Simply put, Aethios, and any who share his sentiment, are behaving quite similarly to spoiled children, and are using the circumstances (a late release, a broken promise, time spent on marketing rather than getting the U.S. server up and running, etc.) to justify that behavior, and are currently fighting hard to defend that behavior rather than maturing, seeing their folly, and waiting patiently, or perhaps politely requesting another update from the company as to the state of the game. You see, if you're unable to look past your own disappointment and see the big picture, the reasons for why the company chose to do what it did, the difficulty involved in making a MMOG, and the probable upset they are feeling at having let down their eagerly awaiting beta testers, if you can't imagine things outside your own feelings of being betrayed, then you aren't logical, you aren't intelligent, and you aren't sensitive. You're simply a person who desires desperately to defend yourself and anything you produce, including infantile rants.
As to the sincerity of my final statement, it WAS indeed sincere. The alternative to Aethios maturing into a full-fledged adult capable of putting his own disappointments in perspective are far worse than anything a vindictive mind could wish on him.
@jwshaw88: I expect that any lack of logic you might think you found in my original post stems not from your excellent abilities to analyze such things, but rather a subconscious desire to justify your own rants and flames, not that I consider you an espouser of either. Your inability to grasp the part you quoted can be seen in the complete glossing over of a single, capitalized word: ANYTHING. I CAN logically tell him he's not entitled to an outburst, and instead tell him he's entitled to a response to the situation. Of course it takes all the wind out of his sails in so doing, as it does yours, but that's the point of my message, isn't it, or did you miss that? Furthermore, I at no point suggested that he can or cannot do anything, I asserted no control or censorship of his behavior, and while I stated an opinion, as we all do, the BASIS for my opinion is far more sound than the BASIS for his, which I demonstrated through actual logic, rather than what people attempt to pass off as logic oftentimes.
Be that as it may, I remain steadfast in hoping ALL of the disappointed folks out there can remain patient, understanding, and sympathetic in the midst of that disappointment (and yes, I include myself in this). I also am not seeking to exclude myself from making inappropriate outbursts. What I learned and what I share here I learned from first-hand experience, as well as from books that allow me to better articulate that experience.
Happy Holidays to you all!
LOL, whether I agree with him or not, I think I would rather read Delateur's long posts over and over than hear another word from you.
Delateur,
I don't fault your opinions, and don't necessarily agree with how you stated them, but I can at least see the point in what you have said and appreciate that you seem to have a level headed approach to such things, unlike this troll listed above here. If you haven't read the posts over on tcos.com, they may give a bit more insight into how folks have been treated for just simply saying "hi, i won this thing, any idea on when we'll get contacted?". I think my point is, if you ask a question, regardless of how it's posed, it deserves some sort of mature answer because giving a stupid response to a question you "feel" is stupid really only perpetuates stupidity. These comments here and over there (not your comments at all Delateur) have really given me insight into what I think I will expect from the community. For all I know, the folks who would give a good response are off playing the beta already, but looking past beta, who is waiting to get into the game? Unfortunately, it's the folks who are responding. I think I'll just give this title some time to mature after release, then see what folks have to say about it before giving it too much more thought. 2006 wasn't very impressive for this market and it's offerings, that has jaded me to trying new games at the expense of 50$ per game.
RE * SPOND [ri-spond] - verb
1. To make a reply; answer.
I can't believe I'm being forced to look words up in the dictionary for you. As much as you tout your grasp of the English language and your intellectuality, you're really missing the point here.
So now, according to you, the apparent "Master of English," complaint is no longer considered a response. How, then, would you propose we respond when the local fast food restaurant messes up our sandwich? How do we respond when the credit card company overcharges us on a bill? How do we respond if we win the lottery and they refuse to give us our winnings?
The last example is the most important one, althoughthey all apply to the point I'm trying to make. Winning this contest,in and of itself, has entitled me to the beta key. You can come here and yell out loud all you want that I'm not entitled, but the fact remains that I am. Complaint is a natural way for people to voice their opinions about the service (or the lack thereof) they are receiving.
If namecalling and berating are what pass for "sensitivity" to you, I hope you never have children.
You would certainly know first-hand, wouldn't you?
It takes a great deal of character to compliment someone who is doing poorly, but trying their hardest. It takes a great deal of character to stand up for someone else when they're being pushed around. It takes a great deal of character to return a FULL wallet to someone who's lost it.
Coming to an anonymous forum to attack people for something that's none of your business takes ZERO character.
Do you even know what "nuanced" means? There was nothing subtle about the three-page report you posted. I'm assuming you were trying to say that you're more mature than me. I must've missed that part somewhere in between all the names you've called me so far.
We're only as good as the choices we make. Would you disagree?
So, according to this logic, my choice to come here and complain about not receiving the key I was promised over two months ago makes me a complainer. I have no problem with that. However, what does that mean for TCoS, who chose to develop marketing materials instead of the beta servers? What does that mean for you, who chose to come here and accuse me of all these "childish, knee-jerk" actions?
EN * TI * TLE [en-tahyt-l] - verb
1. To give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something.
You seem to think you're perfectly able to determine what I am and am not "entitled" to, which is the same as determining what I can and cannot do. Just because you didn't actually USE the words "you can't" doesn't mean they weren't implied through definition.
The basis for my opinion is that TCoS should have mailed me my beta key two months ago. What's your excuse again?
You're calling me names, that's what it comes down to. You need to get off your pedestal, understand that you're no better than the rest of us, and just grow up. You're a troll, hidden behind misused fancy wording and less-than-perfect grammar.
"People who expect their winnings from a contest are babies. I am not being insulting. Everyone in this thread that disagrees with me is stupid. I am a sensitive caring individual. Screw you. I am a wonderful person with no flaws and I clearly own a well-worn thesaurus."
I am entitled to a beta key because I won the contest. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If someone holds a contest, there is a certain assumption that you WILL receive the prize at the end. You can't just say "no, nope, we've changed our minds and you MIGHT have it by next year."
Even as an MMO player in general, if I hadn't won the contest, I STILL wouldn't be putting up with this crap. It's invitation for them to do the same shit to you later on, in a different form. You guys are just begging to get ripped off.
Aethios,
Perhaps it's time for you to just drop it. It's pretty apparent you don't think all that clearly by how you post, although I did have some hope for you initially, which was the point of my message, to help clarify your thinking, NOT to insult you or to start some sort of insult contest. It's obvious that you find critiques of your behavior insulting, because you instantly lash out at those who do so. I'm not surprised by your response, but knowing this, I have no intention of engaging you on this subject after this final response to your post. You are always free to choose your own path, and I have no personal stake riding on your ability to grasp the concepts I'm posing to you.
1) Being entitled to a response is more than simply replying with the first thing that strikes you as "okay". I never said complaining is NOT a response, only that it is one of MANY responses available to you. Some will improve your character, some will worsen it. I think it goes without saying how a great deal of your choices have affected you in this post I'm replying to alone. As to your examples, they are each unique, and each have appropriate and inappropriate responses, none of which you are INNATELY entitled to. If the law is on your side, that makes you LEGALLY entitled. It means that the outcome is more likely to turn out in your favor in a court of law. Each situation warrants its own response based on the elements involved in it. To take one of your examples, the lottery, the lottery has established methods for how it pays its winners, and as a person who purchased the ticket, you have legal recourse to address the situation. Nothing is stopping you from choosing to drive to the lottery headquarters and opening up on everyone inside with an AK-47, but it would be a poor choice among many possible choices, and that adequately sums up your postings in here, also. In both cases, whether you sued the lottery commission, or you gunned them down, neither option was one you were innately entitled to.
I did not say you were not entitled to your key, only that you weren't entitled to rant about not having it as soon as you would have liked. You're also not entitled to something that can not be provided. Yes, you won a key, and unfortunately they are not able to give it to you as soon as they would have liked to. You felt entitled to gripe about it, and people, myself included, have disagreed with you. That, sadly enough, invalidates your entitlement. You argued that you couldn't understand how people would get upset over you voicing your feelings in a way that closely resembled whining, and of course the reason you couldn't understand it was because you were ENTITLED to whine because they had not provided what they promised. However, in a public forum, nobody is entitled to such things, and you will be called on it. You were, and still you protest what would be obvious to anyone who had the presence of mind to sit back and think about it a bit. You might very well be entitled to a beta key, but you will never be entitled to whine about it showing up late, sorry. You are, however, entitled to continue to make poor choices, whining being one of any number of others, and I and others will continue to be entitled to berate you for them as long as you choose to voice such drivel in a public forum.
2) Namecalling: I have not called you any names, but rather have described in exacting detail the nature of your unpleasant actions to you in an attempt to help you better see your own folly. It was never intended to be anything other than that, and if you find it unpleasant, it is only due to the behavior of the individual I am describing.
3) The aspects of character: Your examples of what constitute character are valid, those are all excellent behaviors, and hopefully they are examples from your own life. The final assessment of my actions was completely false, and bears no similarity to what I am attempting to do, nor does it accurately reflect the situation. My posting here makes this post the business of everyone who reads it, as does your posting here. I'm not exactly sure how you expect people to think you're entitled to whine when you can't even grasp that. You've posted your feelings on whining, and I've rebutted them. If you wanted it to be a private matter, you certainly know how to send private messages, don't you?
4) The choices we make: Your choice to come in here and complain about TCoS and then defend your tirade as if it was some god-given right to behave poorly and receive nothing except praise for such actions points to far worse labels than just a "complainer." Behaving as though you are entitled to things that you are not (in this case, you're entitled to enter the beta when it's ready, not when they SAY it will be ready, you're entitled to complain, but you're not entitled to complaint without criticism, especially because you lack the insight, patience or tact to stay your tongue altogether) far exceeds mere complaining.
As to the choices TCoS made, I fully expect they make choices based on what they believe will ultimately produce the best possible scenario for a successful game. I further believe that if they chose to take advantage of this marketing opportunity and that it had the result of slowing down our entry into the game, that it was necessary for some reason, perhaps there was a limited time that they would have access to the performers, or perhaps they were given an amazing deal that was time constrained. But really, in the end, who cares? The end result is still the same, and we're still waiting to get in on the beta. I'm not looking to point fingers, I'm looking to play what looks to be a fun game, and I don't see how complaining, and then defending those complaints, does anything to speed up the process. You're welcome to get upset over whatever you like, but don't expect me or anyone else who is able to cope with a bit of disappointment to pat you on the back for it.
4) Entitle: To be entitled is to have a right that is indisputable. You have no right to complain over this situation WITHOUT being disputed. That is why you aren't entitled to complain. You CAN complain, you continue to complain, and probably will for some years to come, but you'll never be entitled to it. I and anyone else who chooses to do so can contradict you, can call you on your behavior, and deal with it in any way that doesn't violate your human rights. I'm sure that doesn't sit well with you, based on your responses, but that's how it works, so I hope you get used to it.
5) Basis: The basis for your complaining is that TCoS didn't do what they said they'd do, and you were upset by this, and you chose to share that feeling in a public forum in an insulting way. You seem to think that the violation of an agreement in the form of a contest entitles you to express outrage in a non-constructive way, just as you feel that my calling you on such behavior entitles you to respond in a similar fashion. Feeling this way only serves to limit your ability to grasp a situation beyond how it impacts you personally, and is why I called you on it in the first place. It certainly was not to call you names or test my skills at verbose flaming.
As to my assessment of myself, I think I've made it quite clear that I've lost my temper on occasion, and that I'm disappointed and would love to be in the beta as much as anyone else. I'm not one to believe that a person's intrinsic worth is measured by their choices, but those same choices DO determine how easily that intrinsic worth is visible for all to see.