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Farmers & Bots

JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439

Hey Guys,

I'm fairly new to the MMO world with playtime in CoH & CoV. I want to spread my wings and make a jump to another MMO. I was seriously considering Lineage 2 up until I read several publications talking about how Farmers & Bots have ruined the game.

Can anyone clue me in to what exactly that means? I know what farming is as it pertains to CoH/CoV, but I don't quite understand how it ruins a game. From what I've pieced together, it has something to do with the economics of the game. I'm totally clueless when I read about "Bots".

Also, I'd like to get some advise on MMO's I should look into instead of L2 in the meantime while I eagerly wait for WAR. I'm a casual gamer with no interest in SciFi's... any suggestions?::::01::

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Comments

  • brian72282brian72282 Member UncommonPosts: 783
    Goldfarmers run bots to farm popular spots for the in game currency to then sell on websites or ebay.

    Bots are automated programs that do actions for players without them even touching the computer (or being near it for that matter).



  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501

    Bot+farming means that the game is heavily populated by gold farmers. These people, usually workers paid by some corp or another, run bot programs, ie: programs that play the game for you automatically, to multiply their presence in a given place.

    Their favorite tactic is to "lock" up a particular zone, where gold is prominent or nice items drops, so they have the bots going around killing everything that moves, including other players. Sometimes there are supervisors around that especially warn other players away or kill them on sight.

    As you can imagine such practices is despicable and does ruin the game for many, imagine if in CoH, your favorite zone is taken over by these guys and you simply can't go there.

    It makes matter worse the fact that ncsoft seems unable to correct the problem.

    As for your MMorpg fix, you being casual and you liked CoH, then go for WoW.

     

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439


    Originally posted by brian72282
    Goldfarmers run bots to farm popular spots for the in game currency to then sell on websites or ebay.

    ::::38:: ok, I see! I see advertisements on this site selling game currency but I never put the 2 (farmers & bots) together.

    Can anyone recommend other games to stay away from with this same problem, or does this really just pertain to L2? I'd have to imagine WoW is in the same boat even though I've never played it.

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,156



    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin




    Originally posted by brian72282
    Goldfarmers run bots to farm popular spots for the in game currency to then sell on websites or ebay.


    ::::38:: ok, I see! I see advertisements on this site selling game currency but I never put the 2 (farmers & bots) together.

    Can anyone recommend other games to stay away from with this same problem, or does this really just pertain to L2? I'd have to imagine WoW is in the same boat even though I've never played it.


    They are in all popular games. It's just that with L2, there are no instances for them to hide in. If L2 is your type of game (though I really think you need to do some research about it before you play) then you should just try it.

    I play L2 and it is a great game. Not for everyone and a very hard economy. Having said that, WoW is a fun game for casual players and still has farmers.

    Don't let a few ghosts in the closet scare you (as an old teacher would say).




  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439

    Thanks Volkmar!

    I was really ignorant in not knowing this existed. It's a shame that NCSoft can't or isn't willing to fix this problem. From what I've read, it seems like L2 would have been a game of all games if it weren't for the Bots. I'd be pissed off if I hadn't done any research on the game, bought it, played it, then came across areas I couldn't go to because of the Bots.

    image

  • brian72282brian72282 Member UncommonPosts: 783
    Well, WoW has it's share of bots and farmers, ESPECIALLY on PVP servers.  IT's not too bad though since most of the good loot is tied to whoeever picks it up and comes from instanced zones (think the areas for missions in CoV/CoH).

    EQ2 doesn't seem to have an issue with farming and bots, yet remains casual player friendly.  You could also look at games that aren't as popular (but are still good) like Auto Assault, Shadowbane (though it is extremely PVP oriented), or Guild Wars (again, a heavily PVP oriented game).

    If you have some time to wait though, keep yours eyes peeled for some of the games due ou this year, or are due for a turnaround.  Horizons is going through a painful transition from one owner to another and they are having serious billing issues and stuff so stay away right now till it's fixed.  Tabula Rasa is due out in 2007, as Warhammer Online.  2Moons is due to go into beta at any time now and promises to be the first mainstream MMO with blood and dismembered limbs and such.  The Chronicle looks to be vaporware right now (since it was supposed to be released last November), but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they bought another company and are using that engine now instead.

    Hope this helps.



  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439


    I play L2 and it is a great game. Not for everyone and a very hard economy. Having said that, WoW is a fun game for casual players and still has farmers.
    A couple of you have recommended WoW, so I think I'll have to check it out. I'm in the 3rd day of the free trial period of L2 and so far I've had a pretty good time, however the prices of weapons and armor are extremely high!

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  • brian72282brian72282 Member UncommonPosts: 783

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin
    I play L2 and it is a great game. Not for everyone and a very hard economy. Having said that, WoW is a fun game for casual players and still has farmers.
    A couple of you have recommended WoW, so I think I'll have to check it out. I'm in the 3rd day of the free trial period of L2 and so far I've had a pretty good time, however the prices of weapons and armor are extremely high!


    That's why you join a guild with a Warsmith (crafter), or make a Warsmith alt and have him craft for you ;)


  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439


    Hope this helps.
    Dude, that totally helps! I'm going to do a little research on WoW and EQ2 and probably go with one of those. I'm eagerly waiting for Warhammer as I've made a decision to purchase that when it drops. I haven't paid much attention to 2Moons even though it's all over this site, but the way you put it has got me interested! Are you in sales? ::::02::

    I guess it'll be just a matter of time before the Bots are farming in Warhammer once it comes out as well. I guess that's the law of the land for MMO's.

    Thanks for all the input!

    image

  • brian72282brian72282 Member UncommonPosts: 783

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin
    Hope this helps.
    Dude, that totally helps! I'm going to do a little research on WoW and EQ2 and probably go with one of those. I'm eagerly waiting for Warhammer as I've made a decision to purchase that when it drops. I haven't paid much attention to 2Moons even though it's all over this site, but the way you put it has got me interested! Are you in sales? ::::02::

    I guess it'll be just a matter of time before the Bots are farming in Warhammer once it comes out as well. I guess that's the law of the land for MMO's.

    Thanks for all the input!


    I used to be in sales.  And the way I draw players to games some times, I really should contact the PR/Marketing departments for these companies and ask for a cut of the references I make XD



  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,900
    Here's a look into Lineage 2's bot problem.

    1. Your leveling areas will be severely hampered because many available spaces are overrun by jlasdjflk23 and lahvlkash2k3 and 24hr2l3kjbva and 32h4lkj2hkqje and 24rjhofjaf killing endlessly 24/7. You can't even kill there and killing there is inefficient.

    2. Not only do they take your leveling space, but they sell their adena online, many, i think most people actually ebay in lineage 2. Thus price inflation. The price inflation isn't that bad, some of the prices from the NPC stores is beyond retarded in my opinion.

    3. Go to Giran, the player's market, and you'll see many dwarves selling 32,000 stem or 9939 coal, or whatever. Completely botted.

    4. Due to teh ebaying, everyone has the top gear, the whole acquirement of gear is almost a chore, no pride in it, no nothing.

    Since, L2 isnt instanced, the bots are in your face while playing, while PvPing, while trying to play the market and trying to aviod ebaying. They are in your face every where you turn. Which makes NCsoft's lack of action or effort even more scandalous than blizzard. I played WoW, i'd call the bot problem equivalent to a pimple. It annoys you somtimes, but not a big deal. I'd equate L2's bot problem as having Parkinson's disease, it effects almost everything you are trying to do.

    I will say, Lineage 2 is a great game, very well done, amazing graphics, good features, just the maintenance of the servers are crap. It is purposely crap. The equivalent is like being a hot chick with a nice ass and a great figure a good face but you choose not to shave at all and you don't shave anywhere period.

    Yes, if you are very horny (i.e. into L2) you can get around it, but it is a constant affront to sensibility. To enjoy L2, you have to actively ignore the presence of bots, like to enjoy a hot woman with hairy legs, armpits, arms, and pubic area, you have to actively ignore the presence of the rainforest blocking the promised land and the rough hairy legs and body.

    The game is addicting but sometimes when you play it you want to go to NCsoft and slap them around for being a retarded company.

    In reference to the economy.

    You have two choices.

    1. ebay
    2. quit the game

    of course you can get around the ebay factor, I did, but then I was really into L2 and I did get help from new found friends. Even then I was constantly tempted to ebay and get rid of the market responsibility.

    I wouldn't make a crafter dwarf, I think a bounty hunter is better if you're starting out and ebay-free. If you are going to ebay, the forget a dwarf, trading on the market is way more lucrative. A bounty hunter will get you an extra material drop almost every mob, it will enable you to basically make money as you play, most classes lose money by leveling. A bounty hunter doesn't. I think a BH is a great help if starting new and legit.

    In conclusion,

    L2 is a great game but it has one of the worst bot problems in my opinion. I wish to play a game that doesn't have bots and no ebaying capability. I've ebayed/botted in games before not only does it ruin the game for you it ruins it for everyone else.

    Enjoy L2, I'm on my way out of L2 atm, and onto Eve, also take a look at the Lineage 2 forum section, you can see whats' up and about.

    Also, the official L2 forums are a very good place to see how people love L2 an dhow much politics go on with it.

    Cryomatrix
    Qais on Hindemith server lvl 70 YAY - quitting - even bigger YAYAYYAYAYAYAYAYAY





    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    You have a mission to kill 20 of monster X.

    Monster X when killed drops great loot. 5 bots are there already. each one auto attacking Monster X. You never get your kill. The bots never tire and go to bed. Your mission is unachieveable.

    Be sure to play a game with instances (like the 8 man COH missions inside buildings and caves) to avoid bot infested games.

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857



    Originally posted by baff
    Be sure to play a game with instances (like the 8 man COH missions inside buildings and caves) to avoid bot infested games.



    That or a game with devs that actually care and have the ability to do something about it, such as Anarchy Online.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin
    Originally posted by brian72282
    Goldfarmers run bots to farm popular spots for the in game currency to then sell on websites or ebay.

    ::::38:: ok, I see! I see advertisements on this site selling game currency but I never put the 2 (farmers & bots) together.

    Can anyone recommend other games to stay away from with this same problem, or does this really just pertain to L2? I'd have to imagine WoW is in the same boat even though I've never played it.






    Yes, WoW has its own share, but as somebody else already explained, it is not that bad for various reasons:

    1. Blizzard seems to care more, at least judging by the thousands accounts they ban every month for this

    2. they can't kill same faction people, or even anybody at all on PvE servers, this make farming harder

    3. They can farm just gold as the top equipment is usually bind on pickup and as such, unsellable

    4. they can farm instances and as such, they will never interfer with your game, so not ruining it.

    You can check EQ2 out also, they have lots in common and certain differences, here are some:

    1. WoW has a cartoonish graphics with a very particular style, very faithful to Warcraft 3 style, as such, it is not realistic at all, but boy if you like the style, you will love the abundance of details and the grandness of the landscapes.

    2. EQ2 goes for the ultra realistic, down, gritty and dirty aspect. The problem is certain things looks too bad, plastic or not metallic at all. Certain armor look like rubber and the clothes' details tend to be so small that you can see them only when zooming in, from afar, they got lost in the jumble of color.

    3. EQ2 requires, even now, a very good hardware to run decently, wow doesn't.

    4. EQ2 has zones, and tons of them, especially in cities. for "zones" i mean "loading zones". Each main city has 3-4 different zones plus 6-7 satellite villages, each require loading, WoW world is seamless beside very short loading times for changing continent or entering dungeons.

    5. EQ2 has 2 expansions out, one coming and numerous mini-expansions (called adventure packs). WoW has none. This can be seen as positive and negative at the same time. EQ2 devs are surely more productive, but is the quality as high? both expansions caters mostly to high level players but for the "talent-like" additions to characters in the second expansion. The downside is you have to pay more to get the "full" game or you risk losing out on stuff, then again, up to level 20, none of the expansions help. so you can try the basic game and then decide from there. WoW has no expansions and the price has been reduced sensibly since last time, so you know you get the full game like everybody else from the get-go

    6. Crafting in EQ2 has its own mini-game that require certain amount of effort and luck to obtain top results. It can be worth your while and recently they fixed the horrible "yuhuu! i'm a master swordsmith and can't do even a small dagger without buying products from 25 other crafters!" problem. WoW crafting is much simpler, but luck has nothing to do with it. Both systems are integrated in the adventure experience, meaning you need to go in more and more dangerous areas to mine/harvest the resource nodes you need. Both systems keep a separate advancement for crafting and adventuring and both systems requires you to make choices on what you will be.

    7. WoW has its own form of PvP, present in all servers in one form or another. Battlegrounds are there in all servers for example, even if in the pvp ones, you have no protection from enemies outside the newbies areas. EQ2 did not have pvp until they introduced some specific pvp servers with more hardcore rules in it, like losing money/equipment to the enemy when dying. the normal game has no pvp whatsoever.

    8. Both games have instances and raids.

    9. Both games are heavily dependant on quests.

    10. Both games are class and level based.

    Ok, 10 points are prolly enough. hope this helps :D

    Bye.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by Volkmar

    1. Blizzard seems to care more, at least judging by the thousands accounts they ban every month for this

    No. Blizzard learned back in their earliest Battle.Net days with Warcraft and Diablo that banned account keys spawn new retail sales. Players who profit by illicit activity typically will continue their illicit activity with another account since they usually profit more before banned than the cost of the account.

    It's an old tactic they've used for a long time to keep their retail moving.

  • MMO_ManMMO_Man Member Posts: 666

    Originally posted by ianubisi
    Originally posted by Volkmar

    1. Blizzard seems to care more, at least judging by the thousands accounts they ban every month for this

    No. Blizzard learned back in their earliest Battle.Net days with Warcraft and Diablo that banned account keys spawn new retail sales. Players who profit by illicit activity typically will continue their illicit activity with another account since they usually profit more before banned than the cost of the account.

    It's an old tactic they've used for a long time to keep their retail moving.


    I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the people were breaking the rules. /sarcasm


    image
    I sleep with a pillow under my gun.

  • LordSlaterLordSlater Member Posts: 2,087

    Sadly all games have Bots/Goldfarmer in them even my favourate game EvE Happily tho because of the way eve works and the fact its usually chweaper just to buy eve gold using gametimecodes for  gold. It means the impact on EvE,s economy is negligable.

     

    Also its easilly possable to kill Bots in eve or steal all there loot. image

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