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i like the game and it rocks
geemanjr
Member Posts: 94
ok now i like the game because it is better than guild wars and it was made by nc soft. reply to the question or i don't no
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Why do people insist on comparing Guild Wars (a PvP Game) to the grind PvE MMOs I'll never understand. Guild Wars is by far a lot better well designed though. Guild Wars is consistent, at Level 1 I can find a team to do the missions quite easily. At Level 20, I still easily find teams. In CoV, I can easily find teams at lower levels. At Level 40+, I had a hard time find a team on my corrupter and brute on Liberty Server.
Please don't compare a well designed game that's doing quite well and floored E3 to a game like CoV which NCSoft didnt even care to display. Guild wars is growing and is free. It's all instanced like CoX but at least I dont have to pay to play. CoX is all instanced but still charging its customers a subscription fee. Something bout this just doesn't add up to me. I'm sorry but I'm getting much better value with Guild Wars, a game whereas I can always play with my friends cause I dont have to worry bout which server they are on and I can enjoy well designed, balanced PvP unlike CoX games. Guild wars is really NCSoft's only successful MMOish type of title atm. They reported disappointing sells for both CoV and Auto Assault
I disagree completely. Teaming is more prevalent as you level in this game. I am not about to state the obvious reasons. A lot of times people roll alts and simple solo the first 30 levels or so.
The grind in this game is non existant (especially compared to Lineage II). Instancing will be a big part of all MMORPG's. There is a reason why NCSOFT is considering using lots of instancing with Aion something that Lineage II lacked. WoW and CoX are examples of why instancing will be important for MMORPG's.
Instances in WoW means something completely different from CoX games. It is possible to level from 1 - 60 without entering a single dungeon. CoX is instanced to the max, every mission pretty much takes place in an instance. Other day before my account expired I made a Level 1 Defender and within 10 minutes she was in an instance with a team during repititive content over and over. The players in CoX all seriously grind to the max.
In WoW, I entered a dungeon/instance once at Level 10. Then again at 20 (wailing caverns). Then again at 40 (scarlet monastery, RFK). Around 50 I started hitting Dire Maul. Then finally hit one again at 60. WoW didnt get repititive til 60. Notice, thats when the avg WoW player gets burned out because of instances.
In WoW, dungeons 'save' the state of your raids. That way, you can come back the next day and finish off the bosses. Molten Core will take a new guild about 5+ hrs to do more or less depending on their gear and experience. CoX is instanced 100% and provide shallow, repititive experiences.
And obviously you havent played Aion. I played it extensively at E3. The version I played had 0% instances. Instancing is something a real MMO just shouldnt really have UNLESS it serves a purpose like WoW does (keeps outside inteference away from raids + saves your progress for the next few days). However you really shouldnt bring up Aion the version I played at E3 was very immature. It remains to be seen what shape the final version that title will take on.
So, your examples are totally off base really. Instances in WoW are kept down to a minimum really versus CoX games in which you do 100% instances. Obviously, the only reason for this in CoX case was because their Dev team was too small to develop original content. Look at the credits for CoH sometime. Right now, their team is even smaller than that cause they're working on the Marvel MMO. Think of it from their point of view. If you're a comic book fan which title would you rather work on? Marvel MMO. Cryptic is hiring a lot of talent for that MMO and is really neglecting CoX titles. This became obvious to me at E3.
There's a reason why CoX has only 2.5% population of WoW and each month NCSoft reports even worse numbers. From Level 1 - 60 a new player to WoW (a real MMO) enjoys fresh new content. WoW doesnt grind til you hit 60. Even then, you dont have to grind in WoW. You can craft, trade at auction house, do huge wars in the seamless world, shutdown travel (boats), invade cities, or enjoy Battlegrounds. In CoX, its really nothing but grind 24/7 from Level 1 to 50. No crafting, terrible end game, and poor, unbalanced pvp kills the options for many players.
My personal opinion is that WoW is a much better value. It had a great presence at E3. Burning Crusade is a great addition to a successful MMO. CoX cannot boast of any such promising upcoming content. Issue 8 only brings more costume options, even more instances (hero mayhems), and probably just more badges you have to grind for.
edit: CoX is really a very poor long term game however, its the only superhero MMO out on the market and unfortunately, Cryptic will also be developing the next superhero MMO. CoX has done so poorly in comparison to WoW market wise- publishers are woe to enter this market. Little do they realize CoX probably could've at least doubled its numbers if it would've included more options and better content in its initial release.
Instances in WoW means something completely different from CoX games. In WoW, dungeons 'save' the state of your raids. That way, you can come back the next day and finish off the bosses. Molten Core will take a new guild about 5+ hrs to do more or less depending on their gear and experience. CoX is instanced 100%. In the CoX PvP zones, I can easily dodge all the pvpers and dash right into a mission. In WoW, they clevely put a ton of dungeons inside Black Rock Mountain. So the opportunity for me to find friends to raid a dungeon with is 100x greater cause of the slow travel times and size of the groups (takes a long time for everyone to gather). You just can't compare a well designed game like WoW or Guild Wars to the CoX titles.
And obviously you havent played Aion. I played it extensively at E3. The version I played had 0% instances. Instancing is something a real MMO just shouldnt really have UNLESS it serves a purpose like WoW does (keeps outside inteference away from raids + saves your progress for the next few days).
So, your example is totally off base really. Instances in WoW are kept down to a minimum really versus CoX games in which you do 100% instances. Obviously, the only reason for this in CoX case was because their Dev team was too small to develop original content. Look at the credits for CoH sometime. Right now, their team is even smaller than that cause they're working on the Marvel MMO. Think of it from their point of view. If you're a comic book fan which title would you rather work on? Marvel MMO. Cryptic is hiring a lot of talent for that MMO and is really neglecting CoX titles. This became obvious to me at E3.
Instancing may mean something different in WoW than CoX but in the end they serve the same purpose in that there isn't any outside interference as a result. As for comparing WoW or Guild Wars to the Cox titles not only will I compare them but I will. I feel the CoX titles are well designed as well considering it offers something different just as Guild Wars does.
The version you played did not have instancing and I will take your word for it. You played it extensively at E3 and I will believe you. But does that mean that is the final game you played and it will remain unchanged? This is where I will have to disagree with you on. Instancing is something a real MMO just should not have and yet you make an exception for WoW having it? The backbone of WoW is instancing IMVHO and with 8 million players I think it is fair to say instancing will be a big part of MMORPG's in the near future. WoW and Lineage II are like polar opposites of each other and instancing is a big reason why. WoW relies on instancing for PVP (world PVP is non existent in WoW now) and for high end game PVE (raiding) as you have pointed out. On the other hand PVP and raiding in Lineage II is not instanced.
I do not think the small team is the reason why CoX has instancing. WoW has instancing and they boast a large team. In the early life of the game (COH) everyone would build up experience in the zones not the door missions. The door missions were unpopular and not appealing (XP was not that great). The devs as a result made the door missions far more appealing by upping the XP and the XP in the zones I believe were reduced as a result. Their team may be small but they have consistently kept around a 100k subscription base. I mean look at the Lineage II team for the NA version of the game and it has always had a small team. With all the negative things about Lineage II (Eg bots/pro farmers) over last few years their subscriptions have increased not decreased.
If you feel the CoX titles are neglected becuase they have undertaken a new project that is your choice. Many Lineage II players feel the same way as well with Aion and Lineage 3 but it has not stopped them from enjoying that game. I am sure that holds true for CoX players.
You bring up interesting, intelligent points but still where you are wrong (edit: well you're not wrong we just dont see this eye-to-eye) is that you are comparing a game like WoW, in which a player can level from 1 to 60 and never enter a single instance, ever. In CoX, you'll be hitting instances from level 1 to 50, always. You have no choice, you must enter an instance in CoX to level. In Guild Wars, I'm also entering instances. However, Guild Wars is not repititive (Randomly generated levels reusing same textures over and over). From Level 1 - 20, my Monk enjoyed original content all the way. She never had to 'repeat' or grind ever. All she did was the missions and hit 20 fast in Guild Wars.
WoW's PvP instances can be avoided. You are wrong that all pvp takes place in Battlegrounds. Sure, maybe that might be true for some but many of us still continued to raid Stormwind, boats, Gadgetzan, Black Rock Mountain, and even that lowbie area south of Black Rock mountain. WoW has open pvp. It simply buries CoX under its foot there.
And the numbers for CoX disagrees with your analysis. They lost a huge number of subscribers last month check NCSoft's quaterly reports. Many CoX players do feel neglected just go check the PvP General forum. I still often check the CoX forums (almost every other day) in high hopes the Devs will try to add something cool or fix some long standing issues (like Brute fury building in PvP) but they still havent. They promised a fury fix like 7 months ago and still haven't delivered besides offering the excuse PvP is low priority (obviously).
edit- My opinion is that instances really do subtract from the MMO experience (part of the reason why most any hardcore MMO gamer will tell you Guild Wars is not an MMO). Do I think we will see more instances? Yes, but thats mostly because the current hardware can't really support having thousands of players in one area. So you are correct that we might see more instances but my point is that the more successful MMOs will minimize this. So, I think we are actually agreeing on this topic to a certain extent. neither of us can be wrong here.
edit2 - and yes I did test Aion for bout an hour at the NCSoft booth. I played Tabla Rasa a little bit but not much. Also played Hell Gate London and talked to a programmer there at length. Hell Gate will use instances hoiwever they have not decided on a payment option. They alluded to possibly using some sort of free option if they could work it in. So, yes you are right instances appear to be inevitable but I think the most promising MMOs will minimize instancing. On the other hand I do look forward to Fury which will no doubt be heavy instancing (however they are promising no grind and no repititive experiences). I didnt know Fury was on the E3 floor so I didnt try it. So, I will have to leave this argument as a tie 50/50. We both made good points here I think
CoX has had a steady 100k subscription base. They gain and lose ever so but in the end they are around this mark. Also you must not forget that a lot of times subscriptions tend to dip before a release of an expansion. After the release of an expansion numbers tend to increase. I would not be suprised if the numbers increase with I8 and I9 coming soon. As for the forums being an indicator of anything they truy are not. If that was the case Lineage II should have been dead by now and CoX would not exist. Doooom is thrown around too much with many MMORPG's. Most of the time it is unwarranted as Everquest is still up and running for all to see that MMORPG's can last longer than people realize. As for balance issues with CoX PVP basically instead of doing minor fixes it looks like I9 will address a load of issues. Brute furry must be fixed but it is not something so easy to fix. If you do not want to wait around that is your choice and you can vote with your wallet and play another MMORPG. CoX is for those that primarily like the PVE part of the game and want some PVP sprinkled in. But if someone is looking to play a MMORPG primarily for PVP I would not recommend CoX to them.
I am not a big fan of instances becuase for me it takes away from the interaction I have with people in PVP and PVE. This is where I agree with you on and this is where Lineage II shines. Lineage II is open ended not only in world PVP and PVE but also by who is your enemy, friend, or ally. But the big drawback of Lineage II for some is that griefing, pro farmers, and botting is very visible becuase it lacks instancing. This is where raids in Lineage II fall apart as the Pro farmers who are on 24/7 can take down raid bosses before players can and as a result players are left out of participating in a big part of the end game of L2 (gear) which is very important for PVP. Instancing offers an advantage of being able to hide pro farmers/botters and it gives players options to just PVE without feeling being griefed. I do not feel that way as I feel being able to PVP while gaining experience in PVE is a great challenge. And in Lineage II it happens all time with gank squads that are stacked being sent in to take out a group XPing.
Overall I can see the advantages of instances based on my negative experiences from Lineage II but I still prefer a world that is open just like you do. But the direction of MMORPG's may end up being instances even though I hope it does not happen. There were rumors that CoX woud ditch the zones and try to make it a seemless world but I do not think it will ever happen. It would be really nice though and really add to the playing experience.
Not sure if it was this thread I replied to but teaming is highly subjective I think. Depends on server, time of day, time zone, etc.
Now, since this thread is comparing Guild Wars to CoV there is only two things we can really go by: ratings and sells. Guild Wars blows CoV off the map just look at the quarterly reports. So in this area GW has walked all over CoX. Recall, GW and CoV were both competiting against each other on shelves. NCSoft even went so far as to report poor sell throughs for CoV and Auto Assault specifically.
Next is ratings and reviews. Guild Wars series has bumped CoX off the top 10. Gamers are simply getting a lot better value with GW, period.
edit- I suppose we could compare the content fromt he two titles next though:
role playing - CoX titles wins this category just not close
Community - CoX wins again
Character Creation - CoX wins by a mile but GW is getting better and better.
End Game - Guild wars by a mile. CoX is a horrid game for long term play. No one sticks with their mains (as proven by this poster)
Story - Guild Wars
Quests - Guild Wars, you can level to 20 w/o repeating a single instance. Has cut scenes and the main storyline are all chained together with cinematics
Leveling / Build system - Guild Wars again. You can infinitely tweak your toon unlike CoX
PvP - very well done in GW simply blows away CoX in this area of course. Just not close
Mother only distinguishes between those who will live and those who will die."
I played CoV for couple months, although it did have its moments, I have to say the most exciting thing for me was character creation, by far the best process I've ever seen. I do like the pvp system, where everyone in a pvp zone is made the same lvl, and it actually requires some skill rather than just amazing gear to be victorious. But it was only fun for me for about a month, after that the grinding made it feel like a chore, enjoyment just wasn't there. Part of the problem was slow decay of my supergroup while waiting for issue 8.
I'm not trying to flame the game here, don't get me wrong, I did like a lot of aspects of game. But after couple months I just didn't get any pleasure out of it, could not imagine playing it for any longer than that.