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Agreed, just because some other website whatever is calling it an MMO means literally nothing, its the equivalent of saying 'i'm right because i have a note from my mother saying so' kind of argument. Those kinds of arguments are easy to counter simply because they are devoid of factual basis, which is probably why it has to be repeated so often in the hope that with enough repetition it becomes fact, of course, it never does.Kyleran said:Most in this conversation clearly know MMO does not equal MMORPG.KnightFalz said:Yeah, words have meaning.Sephiroso said:Words have meaning. It's important they keep their meaning, otherwise how will anyone know what anyone is talking about?Nyctelios said:Man, you guys really don't care about what something is called, right?That doesn't mean they have static meaning. Their meaning can evolve or broaden over time in living languages.
The broadening of the MMO term is an example of that. If the switch was just limited to a few players perhaps it could have been quashed by denial.
It has gone beyond that point.
MMO has evolved to refer to more than just MMOPRGs. Game companies... websites... even this site... use it in reference to games of other genres.
So, not only is it important to keep the meaning of words, it is also important to recognize and keep up when those meanings change or extend.
But they do understand it is a modifier meaning "Massively Multiplayer" Online and is being misused when applied to titles such as POE or even DDO as I previously mentioned.
Doesn't matter to me whether MMORPG or other sites misuse it for marketing purposes, heck MTV rarely shows videos, doesnt change the fact "music television" is nothing like the reality programming they show even if the characters happen to be playing music in the bsckground.
Have to agree on that, FFXIV:ARR has updates/added content on a far more regular basis than you would find in 99% of the F2P MMO's out there, indeed most F2P games add content that is paywall gated in some way, or is more focused on adding 'cash shop' items that improve gameplay etc. BDO is a good example of this, where they bring out a new class every now and then, and add a bunch of costumes to go with it along with other pearl shop items, as they know that most players who try the new classes will inevitably buy a costume for them at the very least, just because of the QoL bonuses from them and because once you have one character that has a costume, you do miss the bonuses that come with it when you start up a new character, its very profitable.KinkyAmra said:The hate you have for FFXIV and SE is so real.In every post you make you bash them.Albatroes said:Slippery slope tbh. People tend to generalize too much and not understand execution which is the real thing to notice in all of this. GW2/ESO are b2p games that over boosts and so on (ESO has a sub option as well while also charging for ever "expansion" which they tend to launch about once a year?). FF14 is a bit more egregious imo but its updated at the same rate of a f2p game (at least once a month) and sacrifices in game cosmetics just to put them into the cash shop instead of being earned in game. On top of that, there a lot of cosmetics that are not account-wide and even are gender specific (even though they have a npc that can be used in game to change the gender locks on outfits except for some of the cash shop ones). Comparing FFXIV's cash shop to WoW's, you can easily see who's better in terms of fairness since everything you buy in WoW's shop is account-wide and only updated 4-5 times out of the year (then again, Blizzard does have a lot of other properties such as books and stuff that they sell more often than SE so maybe it balances out in terms of economy, but Blizzard doesn't sacrifice as much stuff that could be put in the game as a reward as SE does). I think Kano makes a strong point and I think he's suggesting that they at least consider adopting a "token" system to keep payment options diverse and can actually make the game more money since tokens are usually charged a few bucks more than an actual subscription.LackingMMO said:DMKano said:LackingMMO said:
"But if you're making a game that is meant to be played for a longer period of time, then I think you should have a target audience and you should spend the time making the best game for them because you want to keep them around. Every player is important - not just the 3% or 5% that monetise. And especially if you're using the sub model, keeping them around and keeping them happy and making it more than a game and more of a home, that's what's important."
Nice find, was a good read. Now I need to stop looking at this game again so I stop getting my hopes up! lol
The problem with pure subscription model when it comes to MMOs - it's a losing battle longterm, as there's only one outcome - declining population which means decreasing profits over time.
WoW, EvE and a handful of others managed to grow the population post launch - but inevitably after a while they too started losing players.
What WoW and EvE both did (as well as 99.99% of all MMOs currently running) is introduce additional ways to spend money on game outside of subscription to compensate for declining playerbase - aka cash shop.
Pantheon can launch without a cash shop - it can even run for a year or more without one - but it cannot run for 5+ years without something in addition to subscription that players can spend money on to offset declining playerbase.
I don't mind the addition of shops if they are done like lets say GW2, ESO, FF14. Cosmetic stuff doesn't bother me(as long as it goes with the image of the game) Even items for your house. Subscription to me isn't a big deal, 10-15 for a month is nothing. If I plan on playing this game as long as I played eq1/2 or any other long term mmo I played then it saves me money from other games :-)
I think they know they are making a game that isn't going to reach the success of a WoW, they have a target audience in mind and that target audience is who they are trying to keep. I've been saying for a long time devs need to start doing that and get this one size fits all mentality out. The game is designed for a niche audience in mind.
If you are going by the criteria based on 'feels' rather than 'fact' then games such as Dragon Age:Inquisition also 'feels' like your playing an MMO because of things like grind, quests etc.Iselin said:Does anyone besides me remember "portal storms" in AC? When there were more players in an area than the game could handle comfortably, the area got culled and you got teleported somewhere nearby.Rhoklaw said:I'm just going to keep saying all apples are oranges now, because apparently it's the same argument. There is no logic behind games that are played online should all be considered MMOs. If Meridian 59, UO and EQ only had 32 people per server when the term MMO was first introduced, you'd all have a leg to stand on, but I'm afraid that isn't the case. I remember when CoD and BF4 were called FPS games, but now they are considered MMOFPS? Oh wait, no one ever called them that. Only Planetside 2 acquired that title so far. I wonder why that is?
There have been technological advances since those early days and servers and clients can handle many more players in an area than what AC could handle in 1999 and the numbers would be even bigger if we had 1999 graphics.
The thing is that we want both: cutting edge graphics and a large population all in the same spot. Problem is that we can't have both. So MMO developers started coming up with instancing and phasing tricks to give us the illusion that we can.
It's all that instancing and especially LFG queues for PVE and PVP content that confuses the issue for those who have no clue why modern MMOs do things the way they do or are just easily confused. So they start lumping games that ONLY do the lobby + queue + instance together with the ones that do other things that support much, much larger numbers of players playing togethr, not just standing waiting for their queue to pop, on screen simultaneously and ADDITIONALLY have instances and queues for some of their content.
There are also some MMO players who don't really care for the world, the leveling, the stories, etc. They're the ones who park themselves near vendors and AH's and just queue for instanced content non-stop. I can see how to them, Destiny feels no different than WOW.