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  • Old school design flaws... are they real problems !

    DMKano said:
    Phry said:
    The biggest problem with 'oldschool' games, is probably their graphics, game mechanics evolve over time, but unless the graphics are also 'updated' then its pointless, one of the oldest games out there, yet still able to utilise cutting edge graphics, is Eve Online as CCP is unafraid to update both game engine, graphics/artwork and indeed, they are not one to shie away from 'modernising' the game mechanics so that the game really has been evolving as technology etc. advanced, its something that too few MMO developers are willing to sink time and resources into, if only Blizzard was as willing to work on their game engine and graphics as they are with the game mechanics, you have to wonder how much better the game would be if they had been willing to do so, i can only imagine how much better a game WoW would be if it could stand on equal footing, at least in terms of graphics/artwork as MMO's such as BDO have, if only.

    People quitting a long time game due to graphics - that's a very small % of players - this is not a problem.

    Graphics failing to attract new players - yep that happens, but original players leaving in droves because of old graphics - this is not an issue.

    The #1 reason why people leave MMOs is - boredom - repetitive content, lack of content etc... 
    Players are not loyal to the product like they were back in 1999-2004, the attititude of "well it's got problems but I am in this for the long haul" - that's very rare in majority of players today.

    Majority bails the game at the very first bump they run into with the game - as jumping ship is easy - and there's 100s of other games welcoming you with open arms. So players just hop games like there's no tomorrow - as there's no longer a sub price to make you think "did I get my money's worth?"

    I agree but with a twist,

    People don't play or quit because of graphics, They may complain but not quit.  They will say they wouldn't play a game because of graphics, but in the end they will if it's popular or like the mechanics. 

    Yes, the #1 reason why people leave mmos is because of boredom, repetitive, and lack of content.  BUT mmos are now just "video games online". 

    And it's easy to get bored of JUST video games.

  • Old school design flaws... are they real problems !

    Loke666 said:
    Loke666 said:
    I don't really belive in actual curses myself but fine, the Egyptians surely did.

    I wouldn't mind an Underdark MMO (it is an underworld region of the Forgotten realms if anyone missed that).

    And I agree with you. 
    I mentioned the curses just to point out the fantasy involved, which opens the ideas of monsters, "in the night" so to speak. In other words, it was that aspect of real life, supposed curses and all, that leads to the next steps in fantasy.

    I don't want just an underground game, that's not what I meant either. But that's where I want to see that part of games go.
    I want a complete game world that's better than the stuff of present gaming in every way.
    It's time.
    No more "go here and do this" direction. Open world and let me go where I want on any given play session. Or let me stay where I am if I like it, and not suffer loss of advancement in the game or lack of entertainment.
    Lol, I didn't say you believed in them either. :)

    I could actually play a game only set in the underdark or with a overworld city or 2. Yes, some overworld maps as well doesn't hurt though.

    I also don't like very much to be constantly told what to do and where to go  but you need some kind of mechanics if you want to stay in the same zone a lot before then endgame (if you have an endgame).

    A low powergap, GW2s downlevling mechanics or something else because it is not very fun to just run over anything I meet and the rewards should be based on Risk Vs reward after all.

    Speaking of constantly being told what to do. 

    In another topic discussing the birth of the 3rd generation of mmos where Warhammer Online was the first of it's kind.  Well, the second was "Rift Online". 

    Rift Online was the benchmark of carrot-on-a-stick.  Two quest per quest hub as you move left to right across the zone until you load into another zone and start over.  Everything about the game was FORCED unless a Rift opens up for everyone to run to.  But once the event was over the player had to run to where they left off and play solo.... This could have gone unnoticed unless you played with a friend or group.  Only then it became crystal clear apparent.

    If a friend or another player was just a few levels above or below they were unable to help. You had to match quest for quest. 

    I have to say the hybrid class builds were great, and same with the dungeons.
  • Old school design flaws... are they real problems !

    Starting with Scarlet Monastery, Vanilla WoW dungeons were extremely tactical. 

    Often players understood their roll in tank healer and dps, but very little on the tactical side of things, like bringing casters around the corner or into another room.  Moving slow and plotting out the next move is faster than rushing. 

    Being a game from 2004 it was amazing how mobs could suck a group into a bad experience.
  • I love charactor focus as #1 feature

    Features...... Everyone wants new features..... Me too !..... BUT if you think about it, the well ran dry, it would take an amazing act to add something small.  Were on a box with a flat screen ! 

    Mega servers, LFG, LFD, LFR, RvR, Instanced dungeons and PvP zones, classless games, story lines, animation videos, dynamic group events, one part quest, ten part quest, group quest, yellow question marks, flying mounts, flying combat, full loot PvP.  I'm sure everyone of you could add at least twenty more to this list. 

    Several years ago when playing World of Warcraft Wrath of the Lich King, I was questing in Dun Morogh with a group of friends.  We were on voice chat and worked as a well oiled team.  Yet we had a quest to grab helicopter's and bomb out a troll structure with all kinds of pre-requites, then fly to a zone above Iron Forge...... Guess what ...... We all found this aggravating, trying to read the fine print of this feature.  No one had fun, and it was NOT memorable fun.  Hard would be, but not this!  This is where I realized I hate all features. 

    GuildWars 2 is all about features. True, they flow nicely but still not really fun in the long run.

    ANY FEATURE, gets old real fast, and we all know it ! 

    Pantheon, my perception: 
    A NATURAL immersive fantasy world full of strange occurrences, a harsh but beautiful environment of survivability where everyone is struggling to simply stay alive and get stronger.

    The only feature of my understanding is our "self abilities" to deal with the environment.  Deep rich abilities, more so than any other game to date......... What a great feature :)       
  • Old school design flaws... are they real problems !

    Loke666 said:
    For instance are there no good dungeon focused game anymore, all dungeons that matters get put in the endgame and there is actually a rather large potential playerbase for that. Just copying EQ for that wont cut it, make something new.
    Elder Scrolls Online wants a word with you about that...

    I understand what Loke666 is trying to say. 
    After all, every very modern mmo still seems to hang on to dungeons as a feature (well, most).

    However since modern mmos are so cheaply made and solo centric they do it reluctantly only to give players the most basic way of grouping, and it shows by being half hour speed run dungeons using quick LFD features with auto-strangers.

    Unfortunately, Elder Scrolls Online is a good example of "real bad technology".
    - Mega server
    - Broken replica of dungeons where people don't see each other (did they fix this garbage yet?)
    - Half hour speed runs
    - No name tag above player, this sure makes it immersive :) 

    I can only assume Loke666 is talking about good solid friendship where everyone is in a bad situation together, trying to survive as a group of fellow adventurers.