francis_baud

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francis_baud
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  • Camelot Unchained - Beta incoming any time soon?

    On the Kickstarter page, I found this:  Estimated delivery of Beta 1 Access: February 2015.  If I am not mistaken (and I often am), CU has not yet entered Beta testing.  Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, I Googled about CU being in Beta and didn't get many clear results.  If they aren't at least in Beta 1, they are 2.5 years late on their original estimate.

    It's the case, but as you pointed out, they're late based on their own original pre-production estimate, rather than "objectively" late. Another comparable project (e.g. Darkfall, which was PvP centric, created by a team about the size of CSE, built their engine from scratch like CSE, etc.) took +10 years in total from the beginning of development to release. So 6-7 years to build something as complex as CU isn't extraordinary long or alarming. It really takes that long to create an innovative MMO with a relatively small team in the west. And it's even longer if the devs don't know what they're doing (fortunately, in our case, Mark is extremely exigent when it comes to hiring the finest developers).

    I fully believe that the developers are working as hard as they can on this game.  I also believe that they drastically underestimated the amount of time it would take to build an engine from scratch and develop the entire game.  What other conclusions can you reasonably draw?  

    Agreed on both counts. It's hard to know exactly if it was 100% genuine estimates  or if they decided to put a date that seemed not too far away so they can reach the KS goal more easily. Only CSE knows I guess. What I know however is that I regularly tell people that I'll do X task in about an hour, and 2 hours later it's still not completed. Not because I'm lazy or I lied, rather because I'm optimistic and plans often don't go exactly as planned. It's even worse when I'm doing something for the first time since it's impossible to estimate accurately based on previous experiences. And it's exactly what happened to CSE: afaik they haven't built an engine previously for a MMO (WAR and DAoC used existent tech if I'm correct), nor built games with such complexity : 1,000 players battle may seem simple when we  think about it, but it's actually the number one most complicated thing to pull off in a video game and nobody achieved it to this day the way CU envisions it. Server-side physics, real-time destruction of structures, moving islands, procedurally-generated environment (that looks good, not just bland boring repetitive trees and rocks), ability system with components, usage-based progression for skills, etc. Nobody created something as complex yet. So it was impossible to know during pre-production how long it would take imo. But they surely could have been less optimistic with their original estimates.

    Considering how much things have been delayed, after giving the developers their money, it's not unreasonable for backers to be concerned or frustrated.  I do believe the game will eventually be released, but if the development pace so far is any indication, it's a long way off.  What CU has working in its benefit is that there are few new, decently funded MMOs in the works to challenge it when it does eventually release.  For this type of experience, what else do we have to look forward to?

    True, and I understand the backers who are frustrated and those who request refunds. And yea it's going to take a long while still. But it's not that bad imo because as you point out there's no real competitors, except maybe unannounced AAA titles but I doubt it. And also because the Betas are going to be a lot of fun in CU, so even if it takes a long time for release, I don't really care, as long as we can have fun sieging, PvPing, crafting, exploring, socializing, etc. during Betas. And it's about to start =) (edit: "the fun" is about to start, Beta idk, but Beta is just an appellation and "late Alpha" can be just as fun).

    KyleranJamesGoblin
  • Camelot Unchained - Beta incoming any time soon?

    Realizer said:
     It seems like people forget how long it takes to make a game when you aren't simply modding existing assets sourced elsewhere, versus actually making it from nothing. WoW wasn't made in the 1 year press cycle it had. They worked on it for years before anyone even knew about it. 

     If no one knew about Camelot Unchained till last month and all of a sudden they announced beta within 6 months, no one would say anything about the time it took. 
    CSE decided to put december 2015 as estimated release date when they asked people to fund a portion of the game development. The discontentment comes primarily from that I guess. If they had put december 2019, those who would have backed would have known what to expect from the beginning and we wouldn't even talk about it. If you order a hamburger at the restaurant and the cook says it's going to take 10 minutes, but after 25 minutes you still haven't got it and the cook has been telling you 100 times that "it's coming soon!" [censored the rest of my little story ^_^]
    KyleranMightyUncleanBruceYeemeddyckYashaXJamesGoblin
  • Earlier is now?

    "Community-driven development is all about

                                        listening to what players want.

    We're trying to build great games. Ultimately, customers are gonna decide that.
                                 
                             And our games,

                  we'll release them earlier

                                                  and we're gonna get feedback."



    JamesGoblin
  • Chronicles of Elyria - A Delayed Concern - MMORPG.com

    TimEisen said:
    Kyleran said:
    TimEisen said:
    I think we are starting to see a crowd funded truth emerge.  <snip>

    TLDR; From a KS to a ever shifting deadline crowd funded MMOs feel more like gas light machines than game making journeys. The problem lies within the age old battle between a sales pitch and reality lol.

    Then again Ashes just set a funding record by not doing anything like I said so what do I know?
    Ashes is either the first exception to the rule or the best case of smoke and mirrors witnessed to date.

    ;)

    I saw shiny graphics and marketing which is the opposite of what I like to see for any game AAA to crowd funded. If anything this KS experiment has pushed me to always seek out engine information, which is exactly the kind studios seem to avoid talking about.
    Yea, pretty much that. We don't know if the games using a great engine (like Dual Universe and Camelot Unchained) will meet our expectations at launch, but at least we know that the foundation of those games is solid so it's encouraging.
    TorvalTimEisen
  • Storm approaches

    CrazKanuk said:
    Sooooooooo, it took 18 months to get some bots into the game? I believe they had bots before the KS concluded. Color me unimpressed. Glad to see that some aren't wasting their cynicism here, though :wink:
    I agree that using bots isn't impressive in itself. What I find amazing is that the engine and server tech are performing exceptionally well even with all the stuff they've been adding (biome with dense forests, HDR/PBR, huge draw distance, hundreds of bots and players, projectiles, new VFX, new animations, server-side physics, etc.).

    There are only a very few game engines that can support hundreds of players in a small area with decent performances (Forgelight, Spenefett, Unigine maybe), so I consider it a feat already, plus the fact that Unchained was developed by a small studio and on a tiny budget.

    When CSE will release a gameplay video showing all what they've been accomplishing in the last year it's going to be easier to be impressed than simply looking at a few screenshots. =P 


    TorvalOctagon7711JamesGoblinnurso