Turrican187

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  • 3.0 Spoilers From An Evocati

    DKLond said:
    Can anybody of the experts explain to me please what this "Debug Mode" that is eating away many FPS is doing? And why is it only in the build of the first evocati test group but not in the other Alpha test groups?

    @DKLond
    anything that can be done in a singleplayer game can be done in an MMO, in a visual sense.
    While this is true though higher visuals will have an impact on network performance if the client is lagging (Video Lag)
    Not at all. The client performance will never impact network performance for other players. At most, it will mean delays in syncing that particular client's animations and position.
    Well if you say so, seems like I have to call my old SOE team to tell them we were wrong back in the days.
    Octagon7711ScotchUp
  • Star Citizen - Alpha 3.0 out to Evocati player testers

    Erillion said:
    Pretty cool little leak, not sure what is happening with the bike at the end though

    A glitch that sometimes happens when you enter different physics grids (e.g. coming from the outside into the inside of a ship). Game was not quite sure where the object is ... looks like "blinking" around ... or a sudden movement in an unexpected direction, when one frame of reference "snaps" into the other frame of reference. This snap effect should be minimal, during the entry into the ramp (from a roleplay perspective : "..when you start to feel the internal gravity field of the ship....")  ...... should not happen later and deeper into the ships bay like in this video.

    Known bug that is being worked on.

    The maneuvering jets firing in all directions is a follow up bug resulting from this bug. To my knowledge that is only a display bug, the jets are not really generating thrust.


    Have fun

    Where did you get your information from? Are you a game dev? because what you say here is not exactly what happens.

    The flickering you see is based on the parenting to the object container which just slow though the object disappears.
    It reappears at a fixed point because the translation from one to the other object didn't carry over the entry point.
    When the player leaves the bike, it no longer has a controller on it and becomes a world object though needs physics because it is a Rigidbody, the physics of the parent container are not applied properly so the bike bugs around in its own physics, ignoring the container physics (not ignoring the mesh of the container - bounces of the walls).

    So in conclusion
    - the flicker of the object has nothing to do with "physic grids" - (whatever they may are) 
    - There shouldn't be any "snap effect" this would be a bug not an effect
    - There are no "frame of reference" (Whatever this may be)
    - maneuvering jets are based on character controller this could be caused by broken physics (The controller does not know where its heading to)
    ScotchUpSlyLoKErillion
  • What causes Star Citizen to have so much suspicion toward it?

    MaxBacon said:
    And while we are at performance, every Ship has multiple layers, meshes and hitboxes. a Ship in SC alone is using up 20+ Character spaces of other games in terms of performance every single physic object that can be dropped needs to be calculated and this would be true if they are doing fake 64bit like all other devs do but they are doing real 64Bit (which I still can not believe cause its a killer) so imagine a simple cup in a ship needs to have a position and a rotation that means 2^63 * 6 = 55.340.232.221.128.654.848 these are the total states this cup can have in comparsion to 32bit (2^31 * 6 = 12.884.901.888) these are 4.294.967.296 times more states this cup can have. If we optimize it, the cup alone anywhere in the universe in 64bit uses as much network performance as 20 players in other games. Now place it on a buggy that drives in a ship while the ship is leaving a rotating and orbiting planet ... in 64bit which is calculated CPU and needs to be shoved over to GPU and network.
    You run under such much assumption of things in that front.

    Like the 64bit from what is told, they are only using 64bit on what specifically needs to be 64bit, say things like AI, Physics are not because they don't need to be. Then the "double precision" talks.

    You'll see Space Engineers has moved to 64-bit precision, SC calls for double-precision.

    Spacegenre / SciFi Fans - FPS hater - Survival game hater.
    A ARK player won't drop his bucket to play survival game in a space sim if he doesn't like space sims.
    The only proper genre SC approaches now that wasn't planned is Survival, the FPS / Space was there, the planet-side itself is not a new genre is just a new type of playground.
    Space engineers has a 64Bit client now ... it was on 32Bit before this has nothing to do with internal functions this is just the memory allocation.

    Star Citizen (is it now 64Bit internally or not?) is calculating its function in 64bit we had hours of conversation before where you defended the 64bit grids you know ...

    Double Precision usually means 64bit operations, though KSP is using a 2times 32bit matrix that leads to 33Bit (this is how it is usually done, KSP was not the first). To get the matrix of american sextillion and 1cm precision a 3 times 32Bit (34 Bit) would suffer, but everyone talks about their 64bit matrix when it comes to SC. From an interview from 2014 CIG devs talked about a 33Bit matrix but that was before the scope increase.

    And to have an object in a 64Bit matrix you need 6 64Bit floats (XYZ Position/Rotation) but this is the minimum to have for rendering, physics and a unique position but counts for everything (AFAIK the bullets are objects too not simple raycasts)
    MadFrenchie
  • What causes Star Citizen to have so much suspicion toward it?

    Kefo said:
    ScotchUp said:
    Roberts should be put in a room with only a hole in the door so he can submit his design/game ideas then have a good manager develop the game understanding what can be made.

    He has great ideas with a mix of the impossible. He just doesn't have the knowledge or understanding what will or won't work in the here and now!
    Agreed. Chris Roberts is the type of person who needs a publisher standing over him and telling him what he is allowed to do.

    The only problem being is that he harped on about how publishers are so evil and whipped his fan base into a frenzy over it no publisher is going to want to touch this project so CR is on his own and wont get a bail out.
    That's not the problem, a publisher does not care if they are called evil by someone.
    IMHO the reasons to scare a publisher off:

    A publisher cares how much work is there to be done for a project and to fullfill all presold assets they have to work at least 5 more years on the game. this Facething is simple stuff, MAYA exports with blendshapes and the facestuff is hooking up there very modular, different protocol > nobrainer. But all the other stuff and every system interacts with every system. Like Room system interacts with player inventory, Ship Assets (internal complex hitboxes else you could have corners where you can breathe when their shouldn't be air) and environment and if this is not enough (and I hope they are not doing it) realistic air flow. this is just the room system and there are 100s of systems not implemented yet and everything has to go over the network.

    On top of that it is almost impossible to balance out 30+ character classes (ship hulls) in a mmorpg setting and every $$$ sold assets makes this more complicated.
    Games like LoL live with the dynamic of inbalance because every class can just exist once per side so that it is a rock, paper, scissor, lizard, spock setting but in SC we can have mass inbalance (a swarm Ub0r Ships) and people paid actual real money for their Dream and mostly don't like to have the experience of beeing gimped in their $500,- asset.

    The Bugsmasher episodes showed a concerning amount of nested queries in the code which screams for at least a year of optimisation pass. Remember every "If" instruction is killing the CPU flow and the code they showed in their shows nested them multiple times which will lead to 100% core load. And it is concerning that sometimes in their shows a bug gets "magically" fixed or fixed by workaround.

    And while we are at performance, every Ship has multiple layers, meshes and hitboxes. a Ship in SC alone is using up 20+ Character spaces of other games in terms of performance every single physic object that can be dropped needs to be calculated and this would be true if they are doing fake 64bit like all other devs do but they are doing real 64Bit (which I still can not believe cause its a killer) so imagine a simple cup in a ship needs to have a position and a rotation that means 2^63 * 6 = 55.340.232.221.128.654.848 these are the total states this cup can have in comparsion to 32bit (2^31 * 6 = 12.884.901.888) these are 4.294.967.296 times more states this cup can have. If we optimize it, the cup alone anywhere in the universe in 64bit uses as much network performance as 20 players in other games. Now place it on a buggy that drives in a ship while the ship is leaving a rotating and orbiting planet ... in 64bit which is calculated CPU and needs to be shoved over to GPU and network.

    They are developing in hyper realism before finding the fun with multiple companies in different countries. When you play SC you may have minutes of loading and processing time, surprise the devs too and it takes even longer as long as the game is in edit mode. company internal traffic to upload und download stuff takes time too. My best guess is that the devs use 1-2 hours a day with just starting the game mode and up- and downloading stuff from the main branch. this also leads to errors because your colleague is just uploading stuff (i.e. changed mesh) that may change stuff you are uploading (i.e. physic of mesh). Because of the nature of game development this stuff is not communicateable (though sure you can communicate with all devs that could have changed something and set up your JIRA that way but it will become too complex to overview in a very short time).
    Testing gameplay with a 2000 Polygon modell is easy and fast, you get results in a good timely manner you can update and add gameplay stuff very easy. testing with a 2.000.000 Polygon model is frustrating long loading times of the editor, refresh rates not rendering fast enough leads to errors, low framerates leads to confusion > Player falls through mesh could it now be hole in the mesh, physic engine bug or additional system bug.
    Keep it simple until you find the fun and have all your gameplay systems in place then upscale polys and textures.

    I could go on for hours ... assets Z-Fighting ... physics jittering ...
    You paid for a designer villa in monaco but got a tree house build by a 12 year old with one arm (though with a lot of stuff tackled on ... but don't touch they may fall off)
    KefoMadFrenchieShaigh
  • $45,000 Refund, Allegedly.

    For example:
    As long as SQ42 is not playable as advertised > refundable
    As long as your ship hull is not in the game as advertised > ship hull refundable

    The disclaimer that assets may change during development only gets them so far.
    For example:
    If they release the Idris-M as a 2 seat fighter it is refundable cause not as advertised - No Disclaimer or TOS will hold that change in the court.

    Same with SC itself if the changes from the date of purchase differs too much to the end product it will be refundable.

    These are the customer rights in the EU and it is good that we have them and that companies can not just overwrite them else they would be worthless.

    Edit: and BDO is no exception of this if I bought BDO through their website but never downloaded a single byte from the patcher it is refundable for 14 days.
    If the publisher of BDO is in a country with a free trading contract of the country of the customer, the publisher can get his money back from the free trading contract due that a law of the target country was able to lower their income (in this case $9.99). For the EU we don't have such contracts yet (unlike canada <> USA) the law will always be enforceable over a company TOS.
    KefoExcessionGdemamiAzaron_Nightblade