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  • Pantheon vs Wow Classic

    Dullahan said:
    The quest in EQ was your every adventure, not some npc sanctioned task.


    The devs were correct.  There were tons of Quests in EverQuest.  The problem is that the game was not set up to alert users to where they were, they didn't give XP, and the rewards were not worth the massive amount of time you had to spend finding and doing them.  You basically had to run around and hail every NPC, and some of them didn't offer quests unless you directed specific text at them.  The system was just terrible.  It's a lot better now than it used to be, though.

    There were quests everywhere.  They were just largely worthless.

    In WoW the quests facilitated the leveling experience.  In Classic you still had to grind a bit, but not nearly as much as in EQ, because the quests there largely didn't give XP (I don't think most of the earlier quests gave much - and certainly not enough to care, when they did).

    The difference between Quests in WoW Classic and EQ Classic was fairly "fundamental."  The quests in WoW served a different, and more foundational, purpose in the leveling and story-telling process.

    I actually think this hurt EQ, as it really short-changed the excellent lore and back story the game had.  In WoW, you are force-fed this information with the quests, dialogs, and cinematics..  But, because most people skipped the quests in EQ, they tended to remain relatively ignorant of what was going on in the game, why, how things arrived at certain points.

    This made WoW a lot more interesting to play from a story-telling standpoint than EQ, which is probably why people continue to sub at expansion and major patch launches to play through the content.  Blizzard has made the content interesting, and they've made people take note of it.

    Verant/SOE never really did that.
  • Classic wow will make noobs cry

    Renoaku said:
    rush1984 said:
    Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.

    I'l go first 

    1. No lfg 
    2. No heirlooms
    3. Running everywhere
    4. Having to drink mana water
    5. Having to use CC

    I can think of more can you? 
    what are heirlooms in wow lol?

    But the original wow was the best this new garbage since burning crusade has been on nothing but tilt starting with burning crusade, if they bring back the original wow as it was before burning crusade, give mages back Arcane Power, POM, Pryoblast ill think about giving it another go.

    They're "Bind on Account" gear that Blizzard introduced in WoTLK to help people level alts faster.  The gear could be equipped at level 1, and instead of replacing it, it scaled with your level as you leveled up.  Frankly, the stats weren't even top end-WoTLK at max level.  The benefit from the Heirlooms was in much easier gear management and the XP bonuses off of them.  The weapons were pretty decent, as well.  You can fill in like half of your gear slots with Heirlooms atm.  Back in WoTLK, it was only like 3-4 slots, or so.

    Heirlooms are there to help people level alts faster.  No one used them at max level, because the gear is terrible there.  There is no "XP" gain at max level, either.

    Contrary to what some people would have you believe, sitting at low levels to steamroll levelers who decided to do a few BGs or such isn't the intended gameplay in WoW.  The people complaining about Heirlooms are largely those people.

    And if the Specs are literally "classic," I expect many people to be disgusted by it when they try it.

    People act like Classic was the pinnacle of class/spec balance and gameplay in WoW.  It wasn't.

    Those classic servers were popular because they were free or extremely cheap to play on.  Things are different when you still have to pay a subscription and your choice is between Old WoW and New WoW.  That's why the reception for the Classic Server at Blizzcon was fairly tepid, while the new Expansion had people hollering like they were at a football game.  Most people don't care about this - they appreciate forward momentum in gaming.

    Also, the criticism that this game is boring is as old as the game itself.  Several reputable reviews have called this game out for being a borefest, and thousands of users have stated the same.

    I understand that people are desperate for a WoW killer (or at least, comparable alternative), but try not to overstate things.
  • Graphics

    Dullahan said:
    If no other games are being made like an old game, by definition it's unique.

    That people won't play it is just your unsubstantiated opinion. Based on what we've seen, people are not likely to keep buying into and remaining faithful to the current type of mmo, while EQ was very popular, especially for it's time, and had a rabidly faithful fanbase that still keeps it afloat to this day.

    How can it be unique, when you can just play the other game it's cloning right now... before the clone is even on the market.

    Do you know what unique actually means, or are you attempting to redefine it?
  • Graphics

    Rhoklaw said:
    Darksworm said:
    Wizardry said:
    svann said:
    Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.

    As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1.  Even 17 years later its a lag fest. 

    I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
    Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts? 

    This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10
    By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.

    Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.

    I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.

    Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game.  It's a legit EQ clone.  This is a problem.

    I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.

    The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required...  I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.

    Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.

    Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ...  But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...

    Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
    You yourself just said EQ hasn't been EQ for 12 years. Doesn't kind of make sense that Brad would like to bring back the old school EQ format to the genre? This genre has been slowly dying ever since WoW became the standard. Than it took an even deeper decent into oblivion with all the P2W Asian grinders.

    When I say EQ hasn't been EQ, I mean the game has evolved and isn't a carbon copy of what it was on release...  It evolved because players wanted evolution, not because Verant/SOE decided to butcher it.  EQ is still EQ.  It still plays like EQ.  The fact that it has evolved over the past [almost] 20 years doesn't change that.  It was necessary.  WoW probably took half of EQ's player base, because it's was an evolution of the EQ formula.

    Designing a modern MMORPG based off of Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay sort of misses the point.  How many players do they expect to get for that, especially with a subscription...  MMORPGs aren't exactly cheap to develop and run.

    Any player with an IQ above 60 should be questioning the viability of such a game.  On the contrary, all we see here (for the most part) is defense and blind hype.

    No, I don't want to go back to Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay.

    WoW is the "standard" because it's the only game that has been able to deliver good gameplay, polish, great performance on "average hardware," and incorporate amazing lore.  It doesn't help that Blizzard's content development teams are really good, and they release a lot of content - even between Expansions.  This makes WoW the default, reliable, non-volatile, safe choice for a lot of people.

    Other games are decent.  FFXIV is decent, but the gameplay (combat, etc.) is molasses-paced and it bores a lot of people.  Do a quick Google Search for it.

    Games like ESO were overhyped and aren't nearly as good as their fanboys make it out to be.  We see this whenever a new game releases.

    The reason why WoW is where it is, is because the developers focused on developing a great product, and less on Public Relations.

    And I'm not sure how any game that is modeling itself after Pre-Expansion EQ can be compared favorably to Asian Grinders in terms of time sink.  Maybe you're write about the P2W part, but the Asian Grinders got that formula from ... EverQuest.

    So excuse me while I chuckle at that bit for a minute.