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  • Classic wow will make noobs cry

    Renoaku said:
    rush1984 said:
    Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.

    I'l go first 

    1. No lfg 
    2. No heirlooms
    3. Running everywhere
    4. Having to drink mana water
    5. Having to use CC

    I can think of more can you? 
    what are heirlooms in wow lol?

    But the original wow was the best this new garbage since burning crusade has been on nothing but tilt starting with burning crusade, if they bring back the original wow as it was before burning crusade, give mages back Arcane Power, POM, Pryoblast ill think about giving it another go.

    They're "Bind on Account" gear that Blizzard introduced in WoTLK to help people level alts faster.  The gear could be equipped at level 1, and instead of replacing it, it scaled with your level as you leveled up.  Frankly, the stats weren't even top end-WoTLK at max level.  The benefit from the Heirlooms was in much easier gear management and the XP bonuses off of them.  The weapons were pretty decent, as well.  You can fill in like half of your gear slots with Heirlooms atm.  Back in WoTLK, it was only like 3-4 slots, or so.

    Heirlooms are there to help people level alts faster.  No one used them at max level, because the gear is terrible there.  There is no "XP" gain at max level, either.

    Contrary to what some people would have you believe, sitting at low levels to steamroll levelers who decided to do a few BGs or such isn't the intended gameplay in WoW.  The people complaining about Heirlooms are largely those people.

    And if the Specs are literally "classic," I expect many people to be disgusted by it when they try it.

    People act like Classic was the pinnacle of class/spec balance and gameplay in WoW.  It wasn't.

    Those classic servers were popular because they were free or extremely cheap to play on.  Things are different when you still have to pay a subscription and your choice is between Old WoW and New WoW.  That's why the reception for the Classic Server at Blizzcon was fairly tepid, while the new Expansion had people hollering like they were at a football game.  Most people don't care about this - they appreciate forward momentum in gaming.
  • Graphics

    Dullahan said:

    ps. EQ topped out at over half a million players around the turn of the century, a time when most people still didn't even have internet.
    Even less...way less...had the GPU required to play.

    EQ didn't really require a GPU of any decency to play until around 2004 or so, (after Planes of Power) when they upgraded the graphics Engine for DX9.  Until then, I was playing on an old Voodoo3 graphics card on a P3.  I put EQ on my older laptop with an AMD A10-5745M APU, and it was laggy as all hell, because GPU almost doesn't matter to EQ.  It's all about the CPU.  EQ2 has the same issues (it has terrible GPU usage, and high CPU requirements).  There are games released in 2010-2014 which play better on that laptop than EverQuest.

    Also, EQ topped off at half a million "players," but by that time a lot of those "players" were boxed toons.  I don't know any other progression raider who didn't have 2 accounts - one with their main and another with a raid alt they kept decently-fully geared up.  EQ saw a lot of account trading as well, so many people would buy accounts, quit and resale them (causing all sorts of issues for guilds when accounts would get recalled or locked).

    EQ died pretty quickly - during the Gates of Discord expansion it lost a lot of its top guilds to WoW Beta, etc. in a fairly short span of time.  It never really recovered, and it never really saw the same kind of "bump" that WoW sees at Expansion launches for Omens of War, DoDH, PoR, etc.

    I think this was the case because a lot of EQ players played with the same people for years, and it was the primary thing keeping them on the game.  That's why guilds tended to quit en masse, and never return.  No one wanted to start over building relationships that - to them - were as legitimate as any other RL friendship.  A lot of EQ Guilds used to do IRL meet-ups, go to SOE's annual event together, etc.

    I actually met a few people from EQ in WoW, because I use the same character name in all the other MMORPGs that I play.  It was quite cool that they remembered me after a decade, just from my character name, and I remembered them from theirs.

    I think people are putting a little too much stock in EQ's gameplay...  Back then, it was slim pickings for MMORPGs, and either you put up or shut up.  Once the "modern" wave of MMORPGs hit the market (or were about to), EQ quickly faded into irrelevance.

    I don't think that's merely coincidental.

    In any case, no one is trying to convince anyone here NOT to play Pantheon.  It's your money to spend how you wish.  We just don't feel the need to censor our different opinions on certain matters.

    I love how it's gone from "It's like EQ" to "Well, it's like EQ... but Early EQ... cause of course the expansions that made EQ "easier" is what drove players away...  Not the antique gameplay and Korean-style grinding."

    EDIT:  ^- Seems to be a common theme I'm noticing on various Pantheon forums and Reddit.  It's as if they've prepared the talking points, and are quick to jot them down every time someone mentions these things.
  • Any MMORPGs where the journey is more important than the destination?

    Lienhart said:
    I'm gonna blame WoW for this but every MMORPG I've played since WoW I feel this ridiculously fucking dumb urge to rush to max level and do "end game".

    I flashed back to Final Fantasy XI recently and remembered how long it took to hit 75. The journey was full of memorable hilarious shit like Tarutaru's dancing in Valkurm Dunes while a train of goblins chased my party away. Because the journey was important, so was the company. I met two really cool ppl in XI and my brother joined in later.

    It's been 13 years since then. I don't fucking remember anyone else in other MMORPGs. :'(
    That's because you've been hopping form game to game like all the rest of them.  When  you play games like that, you don't really care about getting to know other people.  You may look upon the times 13 years ago and mourn the relationships you were able to forge and maintain back then, but you are ignoring the fact that the games aren't the only thing that have changed.  You've changed, too.

    We don't exist in a vacuum.  Time doesn't stand still.  Technology Changes.  Game Design Changes.  Gaming Norms and Gaming Culture Changes.  People Change - including OURSELVES.

    The people thinking Pantheon is going to bring back the Glory Days of social gaming are in for a rude awakening.  It will be yet another game where people have their "Constant Parties" that they level and raid with, and where Guilds are dominated by cliques.  Why?  Because that's the types of people that play these games.

    If you want slow leveling, go to Lineage II and avoid buying XP Boosts.  You'll get your wish.

    But the fact that it allows you to grind slowly to max level doesn't change the fact that the people in that game are no different than in any other (worse, actually, because the grindy mechanics makes players incredibly selfish ... way beyond what the "Gear Race" does).

    The social aspect of gaming have moved beyond the games themselves.  People no longer feel tied to a specific game just to keep in touch with the people they've met.  They have Cell Phones, Facebook, iMessage, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, etc..  TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, Battle.net, Xbox Live, PlayStation Network, Steam, Curse, Discord, Twitch, YouTube, etc...

    You will never, ever, get the kind of immersion and social gaming experience you got over a decade ago, in earlier games that were popular when the internet was proliferating in accessibility and quality.

    Times have changed.

    Time for you to move on.

    Those of us who experienced it have great experiences to look back on.  We were part of something special - the birth and proliferation of online gaming in its infancy.  The era of true MMORPG gaming.

    But those times are over.  They're history, and history doesn't always repeat itself.
  • All you MMO newbs were warned about F2P. Yet you supported it.

    viddiot said:
    Practice restraint, and avoid games that want to rape your wallet. That is key. 
    The women is the true raper of a man's wallet. 
    It would be grammatically correct to way 'woman' not 'women'. This indicates to me English may not be your first language.

    I ask you to use Google Translate before posting in the future, but I don't think they have a Cro-Magnon to English option yet.
    "correct to way"  === you mean === "correct way"

    Actually the issue isn't grammar, it is however a typo. When not thinking and you type women or woman, they sound the same, so it was likely akin to attempting to type 'there' and instead wrote 'their'. 

    English is silly in its rules of pronunciation. 

    These can all be said exactly the same and spelled completely different:
    Fource/Phource (as in source)
    Foarse/Phoarse (as in coarse)
    Forse/phorse (as in norse)
    Fourse/Phourse (as in course)

    Woman and women sound the same but one denotes singular and the other plural. That is silly. 

    And English is my first language. I'm bilingual however. 


    p.s. I was joking with the "woman is the true raper of man's wallets"

    English pronunciation isn't the issue.  The issue is the orthography.  Modern English is still - largely - using pre-Great Vowel Shift, Middle English orthography.  The Vowel Shift changed the placement of most vowels in the English Language (Chain-Shift), so pronunciation stopped corresponding to their spellings.  Additionally, English employs heavy vowel reduction, which is very "variable" in nature.  So, when we speak, we shorten and reduce vowels in unstressed syllables.  The language is stress-timed.  This means that no orthography can truly correspond 1:1 with English pronunciation, due to this reduction and the variable nature of it in the spoken language.

    Additionally, English changed from an Alveolar Trill [fricative] rhotic to a Retroflex Approximant rhotic.  This completely changed the pronunciation of words with tr/dr clusters (not separated at syllable boundaries).  Tree, Dream, Cadre (English pronunciation), Transform, Daedre (English pronunciation), String, etc.

    Most languages would "correct" this with spelling reforms, but this hasn't happened in English.

    The pronunciations themselves are not the problem.  Every language has its own phonemic inventory, and English is vowel heavy with a lot of diphthongs and weird digraphs.  It's completely normal, and easy... for Anglophones...

    A language like Spanish, for example, has a regular orthography...  Only 5 Vowels, a completely different rhotic, is syllable timed, has no vowel reduction, has mostly regular stress placement, and has very few diphthongs.  Consonants are clustered differently, the phonotactic rules are different.

    Many Anglophones quit learning Russian at Здравствуйте (Zdravstvuyte), because the word is a phonotactic nightmare for Anglophones.

    However, within the system of Russian Phonotactics, Stress Placement, Vowel Reduction, Phonology, etc.  It's perfectly normal.

    Woman and Women never sound alike.  The /a/ in Woman is often reduced to schwa (as in of).  The /e/ in women is often reduced to short /i/ (as in "kick").

    Course, Coarse, and Source all have the same vowel - /oʊ/ diphthong.  It may be /ɔ/ for some speakers - particularly those who speak non-rhotic dialects.

    The vowel in Norse is /ɔ/.  People who pronounce it with /oʊ/ are simply mispronouncing the word.

    Your grammar error was a grammar error caused by a typo.  You can't split infinities with anything but a modifier - usually an adverb (though there can be than one of them); and splitting infinities is bad form, anyways (though the new age of terrible internet writers is trying to change that :-P ).

    "Raper" is an American colloquialism that sounds like something a 2 year old would say when he's acquiring vocabulary.  I have never heard an adult use this word, ever.

  • Should Best In Slot Exist?

    BiS is going to happen no matter what anyone thinks.  As long as gear has stats and effects, it's bound to happen.  Something is going to be better than everything else in some way that makes it overall "best" for different classes and specializations.  The only way to get rid of this is to find a way to ditch gear progression.  GW2 has done this, to a large extent, but this makes gear in that game feel worthless - and unless you're in it for the PvP... everything feels like a waste of time.  Dungeons aren't really going to drop anything you need, for example, so why run it?

    Gear progression is probably one of the biggest issues in this genre.  Everyone kind of hates it, but everyone kind of loves [and almost needs] it at the same time.

    There is no way to avoid the BiS "issue" unless you make tiered/templated gear like in GW2 - but that comes with some obvious drawbacks.

    I think BiS is a great way to get people run content they otherwise wouldn't.  This was really useful in EverQuest, because it meant people didn't move off of previous end game content the second an expansion launched.  The "BiS" items were so good, that many of them overshadowed drops in the lower raids of the new expansion.  This also made it fairly natural to recruit lesser geared players, because you could always gear them up with last-expansions end-game gear without them running into issues trying to get drops veteran members needed.  Only the BiS drops posed an issue in this zones (class armor, for example, didn't...).  They still did Tacvi even after Omens of War launched.  They still did Anguish and ran the non-raid minis for augments after DoDH was released.

    I think the issue with BiS, for me, isn't so much that it exists; but that any major content patch or expansion pretty much wipes out your BiS gear.  BiS takes a lot of effort to get.  I don't like seeing months of farming wiped out in a few hours of leveling - especially when I'm paying to play the game.

    I think this manner of wiping out your progress to carrot you along is what has ultimately put me off of MMORPGs as a genre.  The games do seem like a massive waste of time, because the developers no longer respect the time and effort you put into building your character.

    I remember using my Emperor Ssra robe in EQ on my Mage for about 3 expansions.  This would never happen in a "modern" MMPROG.