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dude you are arguing with either a troll that never played bdo (or never past lvl 50) or a karmabomber, quit it.Miffi89 said:Whilst a lot of what you said has merit, a big flaw in what you're arguing for is that there is no consequence for those who were pk'd. Therefore even if someone decides to fight for the right to grind there (which obviously was a chosen mechanic, otherwise they wouldnt have such limited spaces for good exp) the one who lost simply has to walk back, no repercussions or negative effects given to them. I'm all for choices in PvPing, and if you do so take your repercussions, but what is morronic is that those who wish to karmabomb, have nothing holding them back from doing so because them dying means nothing. Keep the karma penalty, but bring back the 1% loss of exp. THAT kept people from karma bombing and meant that those who PvP'd knew the risk of them losing both karma and 1% exp. It is what kept the 'choice' in a good balance.LacedOpium said:
I agree, it doesnt need to be a gankfest, I dont like that, but completely pandering to carebears isnt the right way to go either, there needs to be a balance in choice s others have stated.
he is just regurgitating the same bs every people like him repeats.
for them, karmabombing doesn't exists, there are no rotations in grind spots and pk'r are psycopath and they'll flat out defend griefers because of their skewed view of open world pvp.
and when they turn yet another game into a carebear land with their constant forum whining, they'll move on to the next because when you strip a pvp centric endgame game of its pvp, there is nothing much else to do. it's been like that for a while and it's not gonna change.
i don't know the solution either but the last couple updates are definetly a step in the wrong direction.Sovrath said:whoa, now wait a minute.they just rewarded karmabombing assholes with that karma update and that's just sad.
You're saying a player or more likely "a set of players" should be able to come into some guys grinding spot and harass him out without any penalty?
If you want someone out "then mean it". Step up to the plate, take your penalty. If you aren't willing to take your penalty then you shouldn't be doing it.
However, I see your point as that also means the person not willing to leave doesn't have to do anything to win the day.
I'm not sure what the fix to that can be.
But I do remember, in Lineage 2, seeing these asses harassing lower level players. I wanted them out so I took the penalty and removed them. If it was "easy" then there wouldn't be any deliberation, any "hard choices".
for further reference : in bdo you have 300k karma, as long as you have more than 0 karma you are fine, if you go below 0 it's the equivalent of being red in lineage 2. killing a player used to remove 60k karma, now it's 120k.
karmabombing is the act of intentionnaly messing with a group or individual that is grinding somewhere by killing a few packs on their rotation to force them to pk you only to come back again and again until either one of them turns permared or they give up and you just steal a part of their exp without ever attacking them in pvp.
the karma changes don't punish pk'rs, it rewards griefers. and man do these griefing clans/individual karmabombers take adventage of it
according to the devs on stream, the karma changes were implemented because there were too many new players being pk'd.
and it's not really their fault, the poor new players just follow guides telling them to go to sausan at 53~54 forgetting the important part : having the gear allowing you to grind there.
and they just flock there in huge waves of soon to be griefers, they start killing mobs (slowly and inefficiently with their bad gear), get asked to leave first (sometimes not) but why would they !? every damn guides on the internet tells them to grind there ! it's the first real grind spot in the game and new players are simply not used to how it works : people are doing rotations between spots of mobs in a specific order !
and then they get pk'd by people actually grinding there because these new players are unknowingly messing up their rotation.
and then they go to the forums and start whining, and they are legion ! you can't exactly blame them for that, they lack experience. and then the devs listen to them.
what they don't realize is that the changes to karma that they are so happy to see implemented will be their undoing later on when the roles inevitably swap and their exp spot gets invaded by waves of new griefers.
i really don't think the solution to the pk issue was to increase the penalty for killing someone because it just rewarded griefers giving them license to invade other people's spot without fear of being punished which wasn't possible as easily before the changes. people are now fearing to do pvp in a pvp game
the smart thing to do would have been to make more high level areas worth the effort and grind, in order to make experienced players go to these places and let new players grind their heart out in sausan. if the experienced players are nowhere near the new players, the new players are less likely to get pk'd.
instead they turned the already overcrowded sausan garrison into the eldorado of xp/hour for anyone 53~60 while at the same making it impossible to get rid of griefers.
right now if you are solo or duo grinding a place that is meant to be solo/duo and 3+ players come up and just kill a few packs of mobs no matter how inefficient they are, you cannot get rid of them for fear of going negative karma (and going negative karma in bdo is imo far more harsh than being red in l2).
sorry for the wall of text but it's imo a deep issue in the game right now and i see a lot of people rejoicing over this update without understanding the whole thing.
Kyleran said:CCP would like to disagree with you. If anything EVE has more non consensual PVP than ever before, probably whats helping keep the game alive at this point.LacedOpium said:Non-consensual PvP is akin to an MMORPG terminal disease. It eats away at a game until its eventual and certain death. The only reason developers opt to include it in their MMO's is to maximize their bottom dollar profits by poaching away at the hard-core PvP-centric demographic, but it is always just a matter of time before developers put their game under the knife and cut off the disease (non-consensual PvP) in an effort to save it before their game dies. It happens in almost every MMORPG. Some of them manage to survive after making change, others not so much.
Covet78 said:Endgame is garbage. unless you plop down 700$ to buy stuff to sell in the auction house, you are not getting endgame gear for pvp. The entry bar for pvp is way to high. Even with a subscription, it'll take about 7 months of grinding the exact same dungeon 4 times a day on your 8 different characters to get endgame pvp gear just for one character ... that is unless you plop down 700$ or so.
After getting 2 pieces I gave up. got my weapon and chest and after that said f*** it. It was taking way to long.