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  • New Brad McQuiad Interview "I want to make Worlds. Not games."

    DMKano said:
    goboygo said:

    How does this benefit the gamer if we keep getting crap games that still survive.  It doesn't.   If the game isn't good enough to warrant an upfront cost and a sub, it should fail and go away.  The next developer will then know they have to do better or don't bother.  I'd rather have one amazing MMO every 5 to 10 years than 20 pieces of shit every year.

    You are under the mistaken assumption that anyone is looking for gamer's benefit. That's not how business works.

    Who makes the product - that's who is benefiting - in the case - the question should be - "how does this benefit the game companies" - as that's the only question the game companies are asking, "the benefit for the gamer" - that's never brought up, because it's not their concern.

    The focus is - "how do we get the consumers to spend money on our product" - that's the bottom line of any business.

    Again - you are looking at this from the gamer's perspective - why? Because gamers are not the ones that run game companies - so your wants and needs of "wanting to have most games shut down and only few survive" - why would any business do this? 

    It would be like going to  movie companies and telling them to only make a few great movies and skip 100s of mediocre movies - should the movie industry listen to an outsider who has no investment, and no direct input in making any movies?

    Get real - your needs are completely irrelevant to the industry as whole.

    Movies just like games are made to make money - that's what drives the whole industry.

    Would it be nice to only have awesome quality product - yes it would be - is this in any way shape or form realistic - nope, so why even go there?

    How come you get away with using " your " instead of " you're " ? 

    Maybe because everything else I spell is wrong ?.... Only kidding, I don't care :) 
    Possibly because his 'your' was correctly used.
  • anyone want to help me make an mmo?

    Sovrath said:
    Bestinna said:
    I have 12 good models (10 races 2 npcs)(best of my ability but could be done better ofc) made in blender that are rigged/good poly and all that jjazz but aren't necessarily animated to do anything in particular like spin in a circle to perform a spinning attack.

    regardless, i'm young and only need some of what I have and a programmer to make a video showing off everything that could very easily be implemented, then like someone mentioned I was actually planning on posting it on Kickstarter and expecting the rest to fall into place once I could pay the appropriate people. (that's the way it has to go otherwise i'll probably never see a good mmo in my lifetime if CU fails in which case, to no fault of my own I'd pick up a different hobby like sex out of boredom)

    I feel like I have put in the legwork doing what i've done which is mostly creating a game that is fun, balanced, etc in my head that no one except people on the left would uninstall
    That's definitely not the way to do it and he was being sarcastic because he knows that others have tried that and failed.

    I bet if you actually made a design document of your game, hired someone to animate what you have and get a student to help you with this you would at least have something to show so you can perhaps get hired at a small studio as an artist.

    I'm sorry but you are going to have to do a lot of planning and actually have a company made before your dream of an mmo is going to happen. If you actually look at the mmorpg's that have launched on kickstarter and never made it you would know that it takes more than just some art assets. But like you said, you are young, no reason you can't start smart and slow and build up to it.

    Better yet? make a solo game first. Really.
    You've already started about the steps beyond just making a game demo.  'I was actually planning on posting it on Kickstarter and expecting the rest to fall into place once I could pay the appropriate people.'  So, start by building a business plan.

    Start by determining how many people it will take to develop your dream game, and how long you might expect it to take to both hire the staff and for the staff to do the work.  That will help you determine how much building the game will cost.  Then you will know how much money you will need up front.  From there, to attract investors, you need to plan things like unit cost and how long it will take for an investor to recoup their investment  (a business monetary model).  The more attractive your project is to investors will determine how much money you can attract.   You'll probably need some people on board to help you sell yourself and your plan (names *do* attract the attention you want).  That's going to get you to financial stages (Kickstarter, you mentioned, although I would suggest that an average successful Kickstarter campaign doesn't pull enough cash to actually complete most games, especially ones as large and complex as an MMORPG).  You might also want to be able to answer the questions in @postlarval's response above.  Those are the kinds of things investors will want to know, and I'm certain you've got reliable cost projections (both short-term and long-term) in order to implement the solutions you provide.  You are running all of this stuff by your lawyer to get commitments from your 'board', right?

    Then the business plan is acted upon.  Hire that staff, produce those design documents like @Sorvath suggests (this is where your idea for a game goes), create the various game assets (art and sound and writing -- quests don't just appear by themselves), manage your team and develop the product.  Now, test it, market it, produce it, set up distribution channels to automate your business monetary model.  Set up a hosting center and iron out issues to get it running as smoothly as possible; this is actually your product you're going to sell.

    My guess is that you don't have 100 pages/charts/graphs of a business plan written down, you're probably only halfway to attracting an investor.  Now, smarten this into a nice presentation.  Oh, and you'll probably need more than one investor.

    The thing many new businesses wanting to get into the MMORPG business have the most difficulty with is the about of writing it really needs.  And I'd estimate the amount of text (NPC dialog, in-game objects, help files, instructions, descriptions, and other elements) in a typical MMORPG to be equivalent to 2-4 fantasy novels at 350-400 pages each.  If you think you're going to do all that writing yourself, let me suggest that you might want to start by writing 1200 to 1600 pages of a novel.  (It's a boatload of work, and takes a lot more dedication and discipline than skill).

    Ideas and art are the easy bits.  Everything else is where the money is made or lost.

    Finally, if all you are asking for is someone to code something for you, make sure you have a good response to the inevitable question, 'What are you paying?'
  • Pantheon doing level scaling? Seriously?

    Gyva02 said:
    Just going to throw this out there. I think if a substantially higher level character has mentored down to join a group with lower level characters I think the loot drops acquired should have lesser stats unless the mentoring mechanics are truly going to reduce the higher player down.  

    If the higher individual has the "Super flaming Sword of Awesomeness" is the mentoring system just going to just drop a % of this already bad ass sword or is it going to reduce it down to something the low levels would only have access too? 

    If the mentoring system is only going to drop a % of the higher players uber weapons and gear that is unobtainable to lower characters and allow this group to kick puppies I think to keep things a little more fair the drops acquired need to have a stat reduction and reward groups who complete this content with no mentor with the better drops.

    That is unless the mentoring system is going to remove this higher individuals OP gear completely and replace it with only something the group's level could possibly have. Better yet the mentored individual gets an average of the groups lower players gear that is already worn.
    Any which way they choose to pursue, I think there is a very strong likelihood that this mentoring system will face challenges.

    I like your idea of averaging the higher level player with the lower level players.  I'd suggest extending that to include HPs, AC, Mana, spells and intrinsic to-hit chances due to level.  Otherwise, the mentor isn't facing any real danger.  I'd even put the mentor at the minimal levels of each for the entire party.  That would shift the focus from 'the mentor will do it for us' to 'there is another hand to help out' approach.

    Even a system like that is relatively easily countered.  Like having 5 max levels 'mentoring' a single highly twinked level 5.  Countering all this could be done, but how much work should a development team put into preventing abusing a system that is only allowing 'powerleveling' over actually grouping with other level 5s (and maybe making new friends)?

    I think mentoring may be an overrated idea with limited applicability.   No matter how I envision it, I can't see there being any real benefit for the 'mentor', only a tangible (and potentially overpowering) effect for the 'student'.   I'm not familiar with the functioning VG system that @Kilsin referenced  (I only experienced the broken version), but I think the development team's time could be better used to develop more interesting and universally useful mechanisms than a mentoring system.
  • What is a Living Breathing World MMO? Any examples of one of these MMOs talked about here?

    Torval said:
    Scorchien said:
    Everyones experience will differ of course Torv , mine all those games i go back to or currently play because all the newer games dont offer for ex.. Even 1/3 the player activities in a game like UO ..

         Well , i also think the problem for many players and why these games are Niche now ..
     Is the simple fact is that they take dedication , have a higher learning curve , and truly require social interaction .. Todays players want instant gratification , jump in easy play , and the ability to socialize as little as possible , Hence why they arent as popular now ..

        Many of todays gamers , think they want that Living World Experrience till they Experience it , then run back to one of these newer games that offer little resitance for them and there play style

      and as a side note .. Origin System slogan for UO was " We Create Worlds"
     and EQ          "Your in Our World"  etc ..

      so these games were created and promoted with that in mind
    We both made some points and I do agree with a lot of what your write, but the point that people don't actually want virtual worlds, even though they say they do, stands out to me. I think the point can extrapolated out and cover most every situation in gaming where players say they want one thing and mean another, but is especially fitting for "virtual world" and "innovation".

    After reading the responses in the CS poo thread here:

    I wonder if people want virtual world features at all. Maybe it's just so cool to make ignorant comments about CS/CIG or to use those threads as the "edgy post platform" that a quality discussion is impossible so I thought I'd partially bring that over here. I don't want to focus on SC and how everyone hates it, but rather does adding those sorts of reality aspects add to a virtual world if they're done sensibly. What does sensible mean in the context of virtual worlds?

    And then I'd like to discuss the reactions in that thread as they pertain to virtual worlds. Given the lack of quality in those comments can the average gamer even handle systems that add depth to a virtual world? Can socially difficult or potentially awkward subjects work well within the context of a virtual world. I'm not talking about poo jokes here, that was to be expected to a degree, but that's as far as it went outside of vehemently rejecting the idea and hyperbolic ridicule.

    So can these things be implemented in a game without distracting? Can the be done well and what does that even mean? Is the general playerbase at large just not mature or interested in superficial gameplay? I don't agree that everyone wants instant gratification as much as I think they mainly want superficial game play.

    Your thoughts and reflections on this would interest me.
    The Sims did a really good job with biological functions.  I'd like to see a bit more of that kind of simulation incorporated into MMORPGs, but maybe not at that micro level.  Overall sanitation and cleanliness could easily be applicable to one's social standing, and a major criteria for NPC reactions.  "Be sure to clean up after disemboweling those orcs, or you they won't let you in Mrs. Wellington's Garden Party tonight."  Every adventurer needs a quick bath and clean clothes every once in awhile.  Easy to implement as a cost.

    DMKano said:


    C. The devs also hated the mechanic and decided to change it.

    Ultimately thats what happened - sometimes devs just have to admit that some of their ideas are not good - say "we made a mistake", correct it and move on.

    While I agree that this happens a lot, I think we also see a lot of the case where the Devs loved the mechanic and refused to change it, even to the detriment of their game.  Ego and 'we made a mistake' seem to be at complete odds, and I don't think I've seen enough of the acceptance of errors from enough developers.  We need more acknowledgement of mistakes and less ego.