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  • Star Wars Battlefront II AMA Happening Today - 'This is Fine' - News

    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:

    Do you believe F2P mobile games to be predatory?
    I consider any profit based business transaction predatory to some extent.
    So if you go to a service station with a flat tire and the guy says $20 to fix it. That's predatory to some extent?
    Yes. He's set up an entire enterprise to prey on people in a desperate situation and make money off of them. Our entire society and economics systems are predatory by nature and design. It all comes down to how can we leverage our position to profit off of others to make our lives better at the expense of others.
    What an awful way to look at the world.

    Actually the guy is providing a service and he's got to eat. Now if he was secretly throwing nails on the road giving you the reason to need his service.... now that would be predatory.

  • Microtransactions is working

    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scot said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scot said:
    I remember when cash shop apologists were saying "but it does not effect you, the game is funded by whales". They want every player paying, if you are not playing now you will be. We saw how software has been written to team up big spenders with little fish. They may not be using that yet, but if you think they never will you are naïve.

    Companies go where the money is, expect more micotransactions making money any way they can in the unregulated gambling market that gaming has become.
    'cash shop apologists'?

    seriously guys just play games that dont have it.

    I hate to tell you this but you cant rant a developer into being a good developer. you have to find games that dont fuck with you, they do exist.
    for example lets say you are watching a movie or a TV show, sure you can force the creator to make some changes but in the end you would be better off watching a show where the artist understands already because if the artist doesnt understand they will likely create a new fuck up and another one and another one and another one.

    you cant force a person to be good at what they do. You can force them to do something, you cant force them to be GOOD at it. 

    its the argument that output is always better when the person doing it is very good at it and very engaged in it by desire. you cant force that 

    The entire gaming industry is moving to dubious revenue practices. First it was cash shops in MMOs, they should what the companies could get away with. Then mobiles reinforced the idea, we can milk them till the cash cows come home. Now we see this in more and more multiplayer releases of any kind. So you can't choose and avoid this.

    This is not about creators, originators, artists, developers. It is about the CEO's, the marketing team, the business team. They are doing a good job, a good job of fleecing players. They are the people we are trying to make sit up and listen.

    Players have won this battle for a Star Wars game to have fairer revenue methods. But we have yet to see what they will come up to replace what they have had to roll back. One victory does not win a war. 
    Here is where I find confusion.

    I play games, I play a lot of games (less so now to be honest) and I have never in my 34 years of gaming ever had a game that had a loot box or a cash shop or at least not one I ever saw. AND...I dont even try to avoid games with lootboxes and cash shops, it just so happens that the games I like dont have them yet

    So if I can do it without even trying why cant others do it with effort. I can help.
    fixed that for you Sean ;)
    lets think on that for a second shall we

    SeanMCAD: games with lootboxes ZERO...literally ZERO nada nothing, play all the time zip
    Others: Cant friggin get away from them

    You: well the saving grace that will allow us to keep our grief is that SeanMCADs games might have them in the that was a close call we still get to be the victim but it was close.
    Like you, I never had a game with lootboxes. Starting in the fall of 2016 they started to show up in the type of games that I like to play.

    It's growing and expanding like a cancer
  • Star Wars Battlefront II AMA Happening Today - 'This is Fine' - News

    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
  • Star Wars Battlefront II AMA Happening Today - 'This is Fine' - News

    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'd rather know exactly what I'm paying for. Simple as that really.

    ....and, yes, I think when gambling is in a game it should be given the maximum age rating and someone needs to enforce that. You know why? Because if an 18 or R rating is slapped on all games with loot boxes, we'll quickly see loot boxes disappear.

    So you're ok with buying X gun via the cash shop for $100? If that's cool with you then great, I get your POV. Thanks for the comment. 
    No one would be happy with that. When have you ever seen anything priced that high? Exaggerating your point to the extreme doesn't defend your POV one bit. 

    A fully furnished clockwork observatory is 15,000 Crowns in ESO. If you buy those crowns off sale it would cost ~$125. It would take 10 months of sub time spending those Crowns on nothing else to buy it via sub. On sale you might be able to grab it for around $75. I don't think he's exaggerating at all. I can think of several other games and many other examples.
    Ok, well, that's ridiculous. We should start a reddit post and stop that shit. AND they have loot boxes. ESO is worse than Battlefront 2, everyone needs to divert their attention at them instead. It is just cosmetic though.. soo.. I guess it's not really the same thing.

    Fuck me though, everyone always talks one extreme or the other. You think that because I don't want to ever see loot boxes that I want to be ass raped by overpriced single items? I mean, is that really what you think I'm trying to say here?
    You said he was exaggerating. I'm saying he's not. Continue tilting.
    Tilting? I just acknowledged your point and commented on it.

    How about you get specific then MR. Clever Clogs and find me a gun or weapon in a game that's part of a progression system and got a price of $100 on it?

    Some people here really are a piece of work..
    The thing is if the gun has a price tag of $100 you can decide whether its worth it to you or not. It doesn't matter if it cost a million bucks. At least your informed. 

    Put that gun in a $4-$5 loot box and who knows how much its going to cost before you get it.
  • Star Wars Battlefront II AMA Happening Today - 'This is Fine' - News

    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    I don't want to be punished though my taxes because of dumb fucks spending their rent and not being able to feed their children because their addiction to this tripe.

    Again, what are we solving here? Are we solving for the 80% or are we solving for the 20%? Actually, it's more like we're probably solving for the 0.005%. We're essentially suggesting to implement something to prevent someone from spending all their money on it, which would be an exceptional case. I would suggest that regardless of the regulations put in place, whatever the game companies counter with, this person would still have a problem and end up spending all their money on it, whether it be a straight-up cash shop or some other gimmick. What you're suggesting is that we create a bubble room for people who can't control themselves, instead of maybe creating a MUCH less expensive support system for these types of people (or the ones who WANT help) in order to actually HELP them. 
    It's a predatory business practice.

    I'm a manufacturer, I make metal parts and I have regulations that I have to abide by. Just because its the entertainment industry doesn't mean they should get a free pass.

    How about when you buy your next house you buy it via a loot box and that will decide whether you get a mansion or a bamboo hut.

    I'm not certain why it's predatory. Again, if we go back to trading cards, are they predatory? I would say if anything was predatory here it was the progression system. 
    Its a fine line

    If purchasing trading cards were at your finger tips 24/7 and gave you instant gratification. Yes I would classify them as predatory.