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Can't the same be said about the opposite? Same rules apply as far as I can see. But in this case it distracts from the many, many things that have stayed the same.Deficineiron said:Let's see how many folks you trick into arguing semantics with you about whether retail is actually vanilla wow with some patches vs being a substantially different game running under the same title, etc. This is a good gambit because you can argue it all day long, it cannot be disproven, and it distracts from conversation/focus on the gameplay mechanics and other aspects that have changed.Iselin said:Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.Panther2103 said:But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.
It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
The 2010 article you mention wouldn't coincidentally be an article by Alex Pham for the NYT? Thats the one I am referring too. Gamerant.com uses his cost dividing in one of their articles. Mind you, its not the only source of info I used, I also checked Wiki on rising production costs for various platforms over the last 10/15 years and an IGN article concerning inflation correction when it comes to games. All that combined got me these numbers. Check the Shadow of War: microtransaction thread around here somewhere, its in there.Actually, in a quick Google search (at work), the only seemingly reliable source I could find (albeit a bit old, 2010) showed that damn near 30% of the 60 dollar retail cost went to the retailer and cost of production and shipping. So I'd ask you link the more current and/or more supported data refuting this.lahnmir said:Posted before so I'll just sumarize instead of linking all articles and posts. Physical to digital hardly saves anything, not more then 5 bucks max per product. Production costs have increased 15x and money from sales about 5x in the last 10 years, do the math. A game should cost between 100-130 dollars compared to 15 years ago, that is taking everything into consideration from inflation correction to increased profits etc.Yes, the gaming audience in general has enjoyed substantial and sustained growth over the past decade, from what I've seen from entities like the ESA. And I remember a time new titles only cost 50 USD, actually. So box costs have increased, despite the transition to electronic purchases eliminating a substantial amount of the manufacturing and transportation costs of selling copies. All this contributes to your point.Iselin said:I think there is an underlying perception that some believe is "economic truth" that since a loaf of bread cost "x" in 2000 and it costs "x+y" in 2017, everything else should follow the same pattern (never mind that wages, especially minimum wages don't... but that's a different discussion )I'm kind of wondering what extra costs we're even referring to here. It's not like the previous title released a decade ago.. So, inflation, I guess?
When applied to game prices it ignores the explosion in the market that for example, made 100K players in an MMO in 2000 a success where that would be a colossal failure in 2017.
Game prices have remained relatively the same simply because the volume of sales, without and equal volume of costs associated with the increased sales, has exploded. But there seems to be this casual folk wisdom going around that the prices should be higher because you know, bread costs more.
Then the next step is to posit that we the consumers are cheap bastards and we need to be tricked into paying what we should be paying. Sure keep the box price at $69.99 just like 10 years ago but since we should be paying more (see above) the companies need to add microtransactions and loot boxes so they can charge that $99.99 average which is what they really "should be" charging.
These things, expressed in simple twitter-friendly one liners, is what I see posted over and over again in any internet post trying to defend shady business practices in game we would otherwise want to play.
Are companies greedy? Hell yes, but we are paying low prices for our entertainment at the moment, we sure as hell aren't victims, just cheap.
There's the data I mentioned. Again, it's old, but I'm at work and don't have time to do an hour long research for more recent data. I'm open to reviewing anything more recent.
The games mentioned are all well known, except for Balrum perhaps. None of them are AAA of course, else they wouldn't have used KS in the first place. Divinity 1 and 2 are actually some of the greatest games made. According to Gamerankings' meta data the second one is actually the best PC game ever made, or second place now. That is as objectively great as it gets.and its not what I would call successful either. but mincing words I suppose.Shaigh said:Albion online wasn't a kickstarter.Mtibbs1989 said:If you're limiting the genre to MMO then... Albion... Albion is pretty successful so far.I would normally argue because its not an MMO, but they did make it for like 5 million. But I think they only got a million from KS.SedrynTyros said:
So points for making it cheap, but not an MMO.
As for the list of game the other guy mentioned. I never heard of any of them.
Also the ORIGINAL statement was "GREAT" mgames.Yet every once in awhile a great game gets made. "Yet every once in awhile a great game gets made."
So once again I could play the semantics card and double down and claim none of them, not even divinity would qualify there. But of course everyone can have an opinion on 'greatness'. But I dont think the general consensus on Albion would be anything other than 'meh'.
But the picture in the original post has been all over the internet for awhile now. So really nothing new here.
But he wasn't asking for an MMO, he was asking for a great game, so Sedryn named one. I'll raise it with Grim Dawn, Broken Age, Massive Chalice, Battle Chasers, Torment, Wasteland 2, Earthlock, Balrum etc.I would normally argue because its not an MMO, but they did make it for like 5 million. But I think they only got a million from KS.SedrynTyros said:
So points for making it cheap, but not an MMO.
You're talking to a wall, trust me. This happens to be a Crowfall thread but it really doesn't matter, he posts this stuff anywhere, no matter what topic.Frykka said:Wizardry said:I agree pretty much 100%.mgilbrtsn said:
Well, I won't play if they're selling in-game advantages or if the pvp isn't fair, balanced, and competitive.
I won't play if people can destroy me just because they've played longer or paid more. Or if I can do the same to other people. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
So, you should be competitive with ppl l have played for a while and gotten experience, items, armor and such from your first login? Purchased advantages I can see, effort based progression... Not so much.
Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards.
However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer.
Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg.
So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
This game does not have a cash shop as you describe... there is nothing and will be nothing that you can buy which will directly influence your individual power curve, period. All of the items for sale can only be placed and used in your EK (housing area). There will be no purchasable advantage other than buying a VIP subscription and that will still have limitations on PvP power curve. When you start testing with us you may get a more valid opinion.