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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread
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Originally posted by Clackamas
This is all fine.. but lets get back to the purpose of this thread... why do we need a special thread? And why isn't the news of SOE mistreatment of customers and games not getting a news article out of MMORPG?
The problem is that this story is old. We covered the NGE when it came out, we reviewed it and I wrote a quite clear editorial on what I thought of the issue. The problem is that these boards are unusable by anyone who may still want to play the game because anyone who says anything about the game other than "I hate SOE" is chased out the front door before their second post.
A lot of what you guys complain about is fair comment, but really, its been a few months and frankly you've voted with your dollars by canceling your accounts. This thread is here and should easily be a warning for anyone who comes by these boards to see what is up if they did not know. All we want is for all users to be able to discuss things in peace, you guys long ago stopped allowing that, not only on this board but every other SOE boards.
On many of them, it's not even fair comment. Thus, to be fair across them all, we started a thread of this nature. If there are any new developments that cause you to hate SOE more, feel free to discuss them outside this thread. All we ask is that if you want to rant about how much you hate SOE, do it here. If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads. Just end the hijacking of every thread and respect the original poster's desire to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about.
Hmmm.
This turn of events is very interesting. As I have read other posters' posts they all seem to raise various theories of why this thread was actually started. They are all possible, but currently I dont think SOE has any involvement on these forums. These forums are currently independant. The staff on MMORPG.com is NOT evil in any way and they do allow us to state out opinions. SOE isnt all omnipotent and beielive it or not I dont think there is any money being passed under the table.
At least I dont think.
TO THE STAFF:
I can definitly agree with you that the SWG forums are littered with negative posts involving SWG and very fanatical bashing. However, I disagree with you that it is a growing problem. People are not being "chased out" because
1. There are other supporters of SOE and SWG. I actually encountered and got flamed by one of them (he apologized later)
2. When SWG/SOE supporters post there, they pretty much know what theyre getting themselves into. If they are new, well then they will see what the rest of the population thinks.
And thats fine. In fact thats excellent. What youre really doing here is stifiling the players' voices by putting them all into one thread. I agree that it is ridiculous, but not out of control. It is healthy for the forum to have a certain hatred for a company and dislike a game, because as we all know SOE forums are highly moderated and is run like Soviet Russia. In this way we get the word out to all the other players. Sparked debate is good. I know it may not be good if they are too agressive, but thats why we have moderaters. Also, it shows just how drastic the situation is. This will also pass in time.
You can see there is a large response to this stifling of the players's voice. Also not seeing an article about the apparent abuses from Sony is also disturbing. I would think if you were the editors and staff of MMORPG.com you do represent the players' voice? this sounds like a paradox to me.
With best regards.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
The plot thickens!!
so stop whining about not being able to troll everyone who goes into the SWG thread will see this sticky right at the top of the page.....
i hate SOE too and i HATE the "NGE" but continuously flaming and attacking people isnt going to change anything
And the Ironic thing about that is many SWG players went TO WoW. SOE drove thier player base straight to the the competition.
I currently play WoW. I am content there, but nowhere near as happy as I was in SWG pre-NGE. If you start asking around on any WoW server, you will find people there that used to play SWG, but left because of how SOE has handled SWG.
If SOE would bring back the old pre-CU SWG, and put some honest effort into it, they could easily rival WoW. If not surpass WoW.
Ive also Played CoH, and found refugees there. I hear EVE, DDO, and many more have SWG Refugees also.
SOE has a SWG Player base...we're here...scattered among the various MMO's...watching...waiting....waiting to go home...someday
http://media.putfile.com/RIP-SWG
I rarely post in these forums, but I visit them each and every day because I like readying how $OE has screwed up yet again.
Preventing people from posting anti-$OE threads pretty much gives me no reason to keep coming here.
Guess I will just stick to the main page for the news and thats it.
--------------------
SWG - Killed by $OE
WOW - Retired
Playing WAR
Obviously the issue here has affected this forum and the Vanguard forum. Granted it's understandable why people would be mad, but for this long... I have never seen any fan group stay mad like this.
All I can hope is that SOE makes some changes to get some of these people's trust back, or thats money they are letting slip through their fingers.
Anywho it looks like this issue is not going away, but lets hope this forum does become a little easier to read with out all the Anger. *Wonders how many Jedis have fallen to the Dark Side because of this*
The problem is that this story is old. We covered the NGE when it came out, we reviewed it and I wrote a quite clear editorial on what I thought of the issue. The problem is that these boards are unusable by anyone who may still want to play the game because anyone who says anything about the game other than "I hate SOE" is chased out the front door before their second post.
Sorry but, if its the review I am thinking about, all you did was accept SOE's canned answers and never delved any deeper then that. Not an insult to you. Just my opinion. I feel as if you just jotted down a quick email with some questions then waited for the answers. Never took it further then that. That isnt reporting on something. Its the bare minimum. Just scratching the surface.
A lot of what you guys complain about is fair comment, but really, its been a few months and frankly you've voted with your dollars by canceling your accounts. This thread is here and should easily be a warning for anyone who comes by these boards to see what is up if they did not know. All we want is for all users to be able to discuss things in peace, you guys long ago stopped allowing that, not only on this board but every other SOE boards.
I would love to let it rest. I would love to just go on. But first, my game is dead. One that I enjoyed. All because of 8 guys filling out a poll. And second I, or no one that feels like I do, can let it rest. The day we let it rest is the day SOE gets away with it. I must keep it in the front. Not let them come along and put all sorts of media spin on it and bury it.
On many of them, it's not even fair comment. Thus, to be fair across them all, we started a thread of this nature. If there are any new developments that cause you to hate SOE more, feel free to discuss them outside this thread. All we ask is that if you want to rant about how much you hate SOE, do it here. If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads. Just end the hijacking of every thread and respect the original poster's desire to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about.
I am not too worried about that. With SOE's current track record, there is no end to them making mistakes. Thereby giving us new chances to make more posts outside this thread.
Kai
SOE should be chased out of the mmo business permanently for what they did to SWG
I agree 100% that this should always be in the forefront and should always be brought up again and again. SOE is not to be trusted until they make amends for their utter disregard and complete disrespect for their paying customers. We are the customers and we deserve to be treated like we are something other than stupid or trash. What SOE did with SWG and their NGE was just that, completely ridiculous I wish they had gone under forever.
And waiting for news to come in? You should find the news. Not just wait for companies to send out press releases. Find people on the inside willing to talk. Get the feelings from "the people on the street" so to speak. Find facts out behind those press releases. Then report it.
When I wrote articles for the area comp and console groups here I didnt just accept a press release as is. And I judged games I was reviewing. I talked to people that used to work for the company, people that still worked for them, and people in general. Then I wrote the article.
Kai
Sorry but, if its the review I am thinking about, all you did was accept SOE's canned answers and never delved any deeper then that. Not an insult to you. Just my opinion. I feel as if you just jotted down a quick email with some questions then waited for the answers. Never took it further then that. That isnt reporting on something. Its the bare minimum. Just scratching the surface.
Then go start a website or apply for a job at MMORPG.com. I for one would love to read your reviews. The point he made about this issue being burned out and that anyone who is genuninely interested in the game being chased out of town by a pitchfork and torch bearing mob is true.
I would love to let it rest. I would love to just go on. But first, my game is dead. One that I enjoyed. All because of 8 guys filling out a poll. And second I, or no one that feels like I do, can let it rest. The day we let it rest is the day SOE gets away with it. I must keep it in the front. Not let them come along and put all sorts of media spin on it and bury it.
At some point you have to forgive and forget. There are just so many parallels that can be drawn from this story to other ones that make this story so meaningless and petty. Women being raped who have forgiven their attackers, Mothers who have buried there sons and daughters who have forgiven their slayers. They managed to forgive acts of such an unforgivable nature, yet you and your ilk seem unable to just be human and forgive. It's lame and petty.
I am not too worried about that. With SOE's current track record, there is no end to them making mistakes. Thereby giving us new chances to make more posts outside this thread.
Every company makes mistakes, every one. Mcdonalds made the Mcrib, Coca-Cola made new coke, or as Doug Hefernen and I refer to it, syrupy pisswater. I hope a game comes out that takes the place of what SWG once was to you, but put me on record as saying it won't happen. It's the past that you mourn, as do I. I've just come to terms with it.
Kai
Me
Kai
Me
Started Jan 04
Accounts held 3
All cancelled due mostly to NGE, CU was pretty bearable for the 5 minutes that it was operating.
SOE have to be the most clueless bunch of idiots thinking that they can just buy up every title and expect it to operate as a cash cow for all time.
The NGE doesn't work, updates are waaayyyyyy too slow and are going in completely the wrong direction. Rather than taking a system that didn't quite work well enough and then constantly tweaking it, they instantly appeal to the lowest common denominator at the expense of their playerbase.
Did anyone ever in the history of the forums and community ever ask for a fps style game? I was a bit of an SWG forum troll and I never saw a word.
The way Sony has sucked up to the wannabe jedi's staggers belief, all at the expense of longstanding, multiple-account holders who had the long-term interests of the game at heart.
Unbelievable, truly unbelievable
OK Guys,
I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.
The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.
Let me give you an analogy that might shed some light on my reasoning: I travel a lot for this job. While traveling recently, I was approached at the airport by a member of a religious group who wanted to share his opinions (in this case about religion) with me. I had nothing else to do, and I generally keep an open mind, so I listened. He finished, and we parted ways. Honestly, not a bad encounter. I came away knowing a little bit more than I once did about his particular religion, and he felt good about having spread the information that he felt that it was important that I know. That's a relatively healthy exchange.
While I would consider that to be a good exchange of ideas, and a good conversation. I walk away respecting his opinions and the religion as a whole. I would not have felt the same way if a moment later, another person had joined him, telling me the same things. Then another, then another. Suddenly, I have a whole group of people, all telling me about their ideas and feelings about something that I have already decided is not for me. They follow me to baggage claim, and all the way to my taxi when I leave the airport, relieved to be away from them.
Let's assume for a moment that I travel to this airport frequently. I actually enjoy the city that I'm going to. But every time I go there, there are new groups of people, telling me the same things about the same religion. It drives me crazy. Do I get mad at the religion as a whole? Probably not (much). You can't judge a large group of people on the actions of a few. So, how do I deal with the situation? I probably stop going through that particular airport.
MMORPG.com is the airport in this situation. We’re trying to avoid people getting bombarded with the same information, again and again, from multiple sources. That’s all.
That being said, things have also gotten severely out of hand in terms of a few people regularly breaking the rules. I will remind you that personal attacks against people who disagree with you will not be tolerated. Personal attacks, death threats and the like against developers from ANY company will not be tolerated. It all appears very clearly in our RoC, and the moderating team will be cracking down on such activities. You can hate the game, you can hate the company, but you cannot use our boards to promote the hatred of people.
Cheers,
Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Ok I'm angry @ SOE end of story……….
No, wait, I’m not angry I hate them, I hate the way SOE bullies its way into and out of situations, I hate the fact the no other MMO company would even consider doing what SOE has done and does on an almost weekly basis, and I hate the fact that, had any other company done half the things that SOE had done they would out of businesses by now…. But, oh no DADDY (Sony corp.) comes to its aid.
[Day dreaming]
If SOE was a human it would be a 21 year old rich bitch whore. Sleeping with everyone and catching all kinds of nasty infections. Leading to the downfall of anyone that went to bed with her. She would grow into a nasty, life worn; ugly old hag wondering what could have been if only she has listened to others.
Then on her death bed, (years too early BTW) blaming everyone but herself, dieing from the cancer she caused herself. just as her last breath was taken her nice twin sister would walk in and she would realise that all she had done was evil and in her last breath nothing but the pain of what she had done in her sorry little life would consume her feeble mind and guilt would fill her body as her it rotted and decayed
[Wakes up]
Yea, so thats OTT but its no less than they deserve
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
So it seems that all of us who dont like SOE are being put in our own ghetto !!!
This is distrubing. History is full of examples of how rulers have put all their critics or groups they dont like in one place to control or get rid of them.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
well, what to say about soe..., they have destroyed one of the best games ever, what is this 9 profession garbage? We got smugglers who don't smuggle, jedis using guns, medics killing jedi, bounty hunters who mostly suck, spy who just hits and cloaks, commando who is worthless now, officer who nobody cares about, trader who nobody needs since items are worth nothing now, and entertainer which is just there. The game took out the fun of varying in your choice of profession. You could be a teras kasi and a swordsman plus some medic skills, this made the game fun and without the old profession choice and old combat, plus low populated servers, the game swg is no longer the great game is used to be.
Canceled subscription last week
Bye swg
Day 2 - its now the most active topic on MMORPG. Big sign on the front page and the it has not curbed the posts in the way that you wanted. I keep mentioning this as I think if you want to correct the "problem" - you should consider other means. Still this topic has been a blast to read though I doubt any visitors to this airport would want to sludge through this amount of posts and pretty soon the regulars won't as well.
At any rate, I appreciate your interaction and your efforts (really loved your E3 effort).
Kef
I think this hate of SOE is deserving of a news story. I know it would bring some heat on you guys, but surely this is at least unusual in the industry to have one company draw the ire of so many fans in such a vociferous and unrelenting manner.
Oh, and go to hell SOE. Woot!
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
The most talked about but least played game ever
I played SWG for over a year after it was first released.
SOE had one of the best licenses, and one of the best game engines ever.
It certainly needed some tweaking,things like being able to shoot through walls and hills, and the poison chuckers, but not the wholesale re-writes that it got.
The beginning of the end was when they removed the Jedi TEF. For those of you that weren't around for that, if you were Jedi and you used your powers where anyone else saw you use them, the game would give you a TEF or temporary enemy flag where anyone could attack you for 5 minutes.
What this did was to keep the master Jedi population relatively low so you didn't see Jedi running around everywhere, or dueling in front of starports. They had to go underground (just like in the movies).
Soon after they removed the Jedi TEF, everyone had a Jedi, they were running around everywhere in public, and since they had nothing to keep them from grinding up to master other than time spent, it made for alot of virtually unkillable characters.
I left just before the CU (combat upgrade), they had promised it for several months and didn't deliver, after months of broken promises I left and didn't come back.
What I saw from SOE was a trail of broken promises, poor execution, when they finally did get around to fullfilling on what they had promised, and a total disregard for input from the paying customers about what they really wanted.
They released the game too early, it was called star wars and there were no vehicles, instead you had to walk, there were no space ships, and to this day there still isn't a reason to PvP, i.e. when you PvP you should be contributing to the war and feel apart of it by being able to somehow affect your environment. So it was Star Wars, and there were no Stars and there were no Wars.
SOE
I feel ripped off by the hundreds of dollars I paid you over the time of my subscription (I had 3 accounts, one for me and one each for my 2 children). I will never be duped into paying for a game manged by SOE because from what I have seen this is how they operate every game they own.
Hi, I understand what you're trying to do but as you can see this is a sensitive subject..lol. However, I honeslty think that if you could do the following it will go a long way in reducung the issues you have stated.
IMO,
Tauceti
/raise hand
present
EnB Exiles
GuardiansOfOrion.com
As you can see by my sig I am not a big forum poster, but everytime I see an Angry SOE thread, it gives me a little comfort to know I am not the only one that is angry at SOE and it gives me a bit of relief to vent my anger.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A very valid concern, Mr. Wood.
If this is the problem, then by all means, handle the problem by taking action against those who make personal attacks. This is neither a pro-SOE or anti-SOE issue. Both sides have done it.
But this coralling all of the threads that have as their subtext, "I don't like SOE" is not the proper solution to this problem. In fact, its the worst solution. It will create more anger and resentment, because one opinion has free run to create and respond to all threads on the board, while another opinion is limited to only one sticky, or face sanction.
Let's make one thing perfectly clear though. The cause of this entire firestorm on your boards is SOE, and their actions, which have factionalized the MMORPG consuming public into camps.
The lack of civility and respect that SOE has shown the playing public, and quite frankly, organizations like yours who are for the fans, is creating this situation. Through its negligance of common decency, and favoritism of one demographic over another, it has created an aura of hostility and anger. Hostility and anger created by SOE's actions, that SOE refuses to take seriously, that now become your problem. A problem that is not of your doing at MMORPG.com, but one that is seriously impacting your mission.
This puts sites like yours in a difficult position, no doubt. But you cannot blame we players, and we MMORPG members, for the difficult position. I would like nothing better than to talk about good things again with the players here on the SWG board. But there is too much baggage, and baggage that, quite frankly, nobody other than SOE is responsible for loading into the situation.
So if you are going to blame someone for these boards getting out of control, blame SOE, not us. Don't blame the SOE bashers, because we have good reasons for feeling so strongly on this issue. Bringing up the examples of past abuse is, quite frankly, the only way we can assure that the thing that has divided your boards will never happen again.
For you at MMORPG.com, it may be "old news." Indeed, that's exactly the thing SOE, Farlan, Mythic, the producers of Mourning, and every other slimy MMORPG development house wants it to be. Because as soon as these issues are no longer in the public eye, the abuse will start again, further weaken the genre, and will further create heated animosity and division between your members.
I admit that the issues do not deserve personal attacks and threats. Therefore, reiterate the prohibition against personal attacks and threats, and enforce it. But you do no service to your community, by not allowing the posters to comment openly about the abuse of SOE, simply because it seems to be "said over and over again." The mere fact that it does not go away, and that it is being said "over and over again," means that this is still a very salient issue, that is not being addressed in the sort of manner it needs to be.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I still like hookers.....
Take your pro-nge self somewhere else! This is the "SOE suXXor" thread!