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The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

Hi Guys,

It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.

*Edited for Clarity and pasted from a future post:

I think there has been some misinterpretation of the purpose of this thread. First off, let me say that I do understand where you’re coming from and that you have every right to be angry about what happened. In fact, we printed an editorial about this back in November that you can take another look at, here.

The purpose of this thread is for you guys to vent your frustrations in one place. It does not mean that you can never say anything negative about SOE in the forums. My concern on that front is that it is being said over and over again, and the purpose of threads is being lost in the clutter. My concern is NOT that people are talking negatively about SOE. I personally don’t blame anyone who is angry over this issue. You have a valid gripe, and I understand that.

Cheers,

Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    /Cheer great idea 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • BadBoyOnFireBadBoyOnFire ChesterfieldPosts: 102Member
    No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

    Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

    But, heres my two cents.

    "1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".


  • ClackamasClackamas Renton, WAPosts: 776Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    Hi Guys,
    It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    Sounds like there is a story there... so as News Manager/Community Manager, where is the Story?  I find it interesting that you give us a punching bag yet publish no story of the Majority of SOE players who continue to voice there opposition to SOE are now being called "hate mongers" for presenting honest opinons in various threads?

    So, besides the punching bag of this thread, what is your real goal?  Clearly, it isn't just a minority of posters otherwise you'd ban folks and that would be bad for your business....

    So, I really want to know what the real motivation is here?
  • ShaydeShayde Cape Coral, FLPosts: 4,529Member
    Guess that means there'll be no other threads on this board ever again.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
    No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

    Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

    But, heres my two cents.

    "1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".




    I think the point is , When a new potential player comes here to inquire about SWG . They receive many replies from people who do not like the game (because of changes , and what they view as shady buisness practice) . Therefor in many cases they recieve nothing but conjecture from people , who do not even play the current game . .

    WHen a person decides to try a game and wants information about its current state . simply saying "oh it sucks it used to be way better ". Imo is not helpful in anyway , Aside form a possible victory for those with an agenda to ensure SWG fails . 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

    "Sounds like there is a story there... so as News Manager, where is the Story?  I find it interesting that you give us a punching bag yet publish no story of the Majority of SOE players who continue to voice there opposition to SOE are now being called "hate mongers" for presenting honest opinons in various threads?"
    ---------------------------------

    My role in this case is as Community Manager. As Community Manager, it is my job to see that the forums run smoothly and that everyone is following the rules. We have noticed that many threads are being hijacked to talk about people's feelings toward Sony Online Entertainment. So, this sticky was created.

    My role as News Manager is different. As News Editor, it is not up to me to judge a company, but rather to report the news as it comes in. When major announcements are made, it is my job to bring them to you. You are free to form your own opinions on any of the news items that are presented to you.

    I hope that clears things up for you.

    Cheers,

    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • VexinVexin Lakewood, COPosts: 297Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    Hi Guys,
    It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.
    Please do not continue to hijack other threads with this issue. Also, remember to have a look at our Rules of Conduct regarding what is ok to say and what is not.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    I'm kinda confused by the intent of this.  Are you saying we are not allowed to respond in a negative fashion to some SOE-related post in another thread?  That we should only vent our negative viewpoints pertaining to SOE here?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.

  • ClackamasClackamas Renton, WAPosts: 776Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    My role in this case is as Community Manager. As Community Manager, it is my job to see that the forums run smoothly and that everyone is following the rules. We have noticed that many threads are being hijacked to talk about people's feelings toward Sony Online Entertainment. So, this sticky was created.
    My role as News Manager is different. As News Editor, it is not up to me to judge a company, but rather to report the news as it comes in. When major announcements are made, it is my job to bring them to you. You are free to form your own opinions on any of the news items that are presented to you.
    I hope that clears things up for you.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    I see, so it isn't news that SOE has contributed to such a long standing criticism by veteran players?  Why isn't there  news about that?  Or, are you saying that the only news matters is when SOE announces something?

    Again, the fact you had to create this thread suggests a story is there.... but I have yet to see one from MMORPG that reports the veteran players side of what SOE did...
  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Ashland, KYPosts: 2,304Member
    I wonder how much $OE paid?  They seem to be trying to suppress criticism.  Some of us have come here to avoid the modnazis on the SWG forums.



  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    I wonder how much $OE paid?  They seem to be trying to suppress criticism.  Some of us have come here to avoid the modnazis on the SWG forums.





    The fact this thread exists kinda shoots that notion down .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • AikesAikes NY, NYPosts: 292Member

    No, this just means that a couple of the SWG-Stratics fanbois have come here and are complaining that we dont all agree with them.

    Stratics forum is dead because they squash anyone who doesnt say SWG is the best game ever, this one is alive because people can voice their opinion.

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

    I really think that everyone can use their best judgement. I'm not saying that if someone asks your opinion, you are not allowed to give it. I AM saying that we're trying to avoid a situation wherein every time anyone mentions a game that has involvement with SOE, they are bombarded by un-soliscited advice and flaming.

    All that we are doing is trying to provide forums that run smoothly where everyone can have an opinion.

    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • ShaydeShayde Cape Coral, FLPosts: 4,529Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    I really think that everyone can use their best judgement. I'm not saying that if someone asks your opinion, you are not allowed to give it. I AM saying that we're trying to avoid a situation wherein every time anyone mentions a game that has involvement with SOE, they are bombarded by un-soliscited advice and flaming.
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    On any other board I can understand your point. On the SWG board, that's the whole topic of discussion. How $OE has screwed up this game, and when will they realize their mistake and give us our game back.


    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • xPaladinxPaladin Brooklyn, NYPosts: 741Member
    Hey, be easy on the guy. He just made a thread for venting fustration, and hasn't gone on a SWG moderator ban frenzy (yet).

    I agree that the flaming is a bit out of control at times, but at the same rate, it's not unwarranted. SOE has done just as much to anger many as they've done to please people. So both extremes go at it while everyone else gets very little out of it.

    The extremes on both sides (yes, fanboy and flamer alike, who know who they are) could tone the flaming down just a bit IMO.


    -- xpaladin

    [MMOz]
    AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW

  • AikesAikes NY, NYPosts: 292Member

    My advise, address issues that are real issues with the people who are real problems. If you see a statement or person you feel is going over the line then say something to that person.

    That is the good thing about freedom of speech. We dont have to agree, we can debate, and the outcome can be good. We learn from each other.

    If someone is too thin skinned to tollerate free speech then that person needs to exit the closet and live a little.

    "SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-

    "When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete

  • MX13MX13 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,489Member

    I hope for your sake this does not mean you will start deleting Anti-SOE / SWG threads, because quit simply, they do apply to & are a value to these forums. I people are angry, and other's express a view that they do not believe, their responses and opinions are just as valuable.

    Both negative & postive opinions and interpretations of SOE & SWG are relevant to these forums, it's members and & the game's players.

    Questions about SOE & observations about them should be allowed, and do not fall under the topic of this thread.

    Last, attempting to silent those who have issues with SOE would personally disgust me, and would turn me against your site, while currently I am a huge supporter of your information and independance.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MX13

    I hope for your sake this does not mean you will start deleting Anti-SOE / SWG threads, because quit simply, they do apply to & are a value to these forums. I people are angry, and other's express a view that they do not believe, their responses and opinions are just as valuable.
    Both negative & postive opinions and interpretations of SOE & SWG are relevant to these forums, it's members and & the game's players.
    Questions about SOE & observations about them should be allowed, and do not fall under the topic of this thread.
    Last, attempting to silent those who have issues with SOE would personally disgust me, and would turn me against your site, while currently I am a huge supporter of your information and independance.


    I really dont see this as an attempt to silence anyone , atleast not yet anyway .I see this as a good move on their part . They probably had two options start deleting /banning Or open the subject to the public eye in a constructive manner . If People want to find out why people are mad at SOE , WHat better way than a sticky at the top ?

    It seems they want posts in other threads to have substance other than SOE is the "Devil" . It imo seems as a gift and a warning . /shrug

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ClackamasClackamas Renton, WAPosts: 776Member


    Originally posted by Stradden

    I really think that everyone can use their best judgement. I'm not saying that if someone asks your opinion, you are not allowed to give it. I AM saying that we're trying to avoid a situation wherein every time anyone mentions a game that has involvement with SOE, they are bombarded by un-soliscited advice and flaming.
    All that we are doing is trying to provide forums that run smoothly where everyone can have an opinion.
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager


    Part of the problem is that SOE (and SWG) *is* in fact the problem.  The market clearly hasn't made them #5 because they are doing such a stellar job.  While I understand what you are trying to do, the problem is SOE has so polarized people involved with any of their games your never going to avoid the flame wars, trolling and hijacking by providing a virtual punching bag.  And clearly, the problem exists in a large enough part of the population, MMORPG cannot go cancel peoples privilages here because that would cause MMORPG problems.

    The real solution to you problem, would be to remove all SOE threads from this board since SOE has so polarized its current and former customers  that it is unfair to the other game Producers, their customers and this board to have SOE represented here.

    So, while to some extent, I do appreciate the punching bag, I am also under no illusion it will have the outcome you are trying to achieve.

  • SpathotanSpathotan chesapeake, VAPosts: 3,928Member
    Its about time, this forum has needed this for awhile. /jump in the air and slap hands with Stradden to a freeze frame while 80's rock music plays in the back.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • kefkahkefkah East, TNPosts: 832Member

    This thread actually has me concerned. No conspiracy theories of course but still the idea behind it is destined for failure. Here is why:

    1. People often post their feelings in new threads as say after page 5 - only the ones engaged in argument seem to keep reading. So say this thread reaches 187 pages? Who is going to want to read it let alone post to it?

    2. I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. You don't want to risk full time moderation of this forum for fear of outcries and the fact that it would actually require more than one person to do it. Checking the stats, the SWG forum is one of the most busy forums post and traffic wise. Sure there is a lot of negativity but we simply cannot post our thoughts on the official forums now can we? And this has become the unofficial news and rumor source for the game on the web. So what to be done? I guess this thread and once it is clear that fails?

    3. I don't see this kinda thing on the Dark and Light forum or others so targetting this one is cause and effect. I am interested in the cause and what the cause was meaning to effect. You adopt this solution as a blanket - then perhaps it might be taken seriously. Pinpoint one audience and it most likely will be viewed as targetted suppression.

    I am a big fan of your site. And would like to continue to be so please have some more dialogue with us on the matter.

    Kefkah

  • britocabritoca Berkeley, CAPosts: 1,484Member










    about time we got a sticky!  Thank you very much.

    I'll paste some of my important posts here.

    "A Warning to Potential New SWG Players - 5/23/06

    You will be paying for a beta-phase game.

    Why?

    The game just recently got drastically changed with the NGE. Many things aren't yet functioning as they should.  Expect lots of bugs.

    Even as we speak, there are constant new concepts, strategies, and ideas being tested in the test servers. What does this mean?  THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED (again).  Expect your game to change independently of your progress.  Frequently as well.

    SOE has a tradition to change things drastically without deeply contemplating the consequences on the game.
    They have been doing so with SWG for 3 years now.

    I suggest the profession revamps in particular if you seek proof, the chef revamp is a great example, among many others.

    Again, for emphasis, you will be paying for a beta phase game.

    You can take the "it's a SW mmo" excuse if that for itself is justification enough to pay these people.

    You were warned.  The money is still yours.

    Cheers."

    In response to Pirrg's post, "SWG is improving, just give it some time" - 05/22/06:

    "(...) the game got rushed and released before they had the time to consider and balance all the skills/professions.  That in itself does not mean the game idea was impossible to function because they never took the time to really adjust things right.

    Everytime they tried to fix or adjust anything, they'd do it in a crude, brute, and blunt way.  Example:  just about every profession revamp was meant to make a weak profession "awesome", instead of attempting to make it an average or normally functioning profession.  I remember the chef revamp clearly.  Chef sucked, the food was worthless.  What did they do? instead of incrementally adjusting the modifiers patiently until the profession would balance out, they went ahead and introduced a bunch of "kick-ass" new foods that gave anyone under its effect a new-god-status.  Everyone and their mom suddenly was learning chef.

    The game was released unfinished and they tried really hard to unbalance it, truth be told."

    In response to Ixontes' post "I joined the darkside" - 05/22/06:

    "I still can't forgive SOE for having 3 entire years to learn from their mistakes and be careful with their decisions and actions, particularly the traumatic ones, and still be so stubborn as to not give us the real reasons for those changes and keep feeding us the iconic and starwarsy-tasting remedy.  I spit it out already, I won't swallow it again.
    They treat us like children with their corporate apologies.  Have the balls to say everything was broken and extremelly costly to maintain.  I'd give them my respect back and maybe my money a few years down the road, once they finish re-beta everything.

    I know that you will keep paying and hoping the game will eventually be "fixed" but seriously, I have heard that tune far too long, and even if they now really are trying, you will still be paying for a beta.

    I played and payed beta for far too long, what can I say.

    The least I can ask from anyone playing the game atm, is to put pressure on those guys to hurry the hell up before any other game outdoes this one, and that shouldn't be taking too long.  Either that or compromise by giving us pre-CU servers, but I'll probably have reached 3rd age before I see that day."

    and finally, where do we stand?
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/78239

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • ScarisScaris Arlington, VAPosts: 5,332Member


    Originally posted by Clackamas
    I see, so it isn't news that SOE has contributed to such a long standing criticism by veteran players?  Why isn't there  news about that?  Or, are you saying that the only news matters is when SOE announces something?Again, the fact you had to create this thread suggests a story is there.... but I have yet to see one from MMORPG that reports the veteran players side of what SOE did...

    I am quite sure you could do the legwork, type out a well written constructive article about SOE's failings and submit it to here with a chance of it getting it posted or posting it as a thread yourself Clackamas. Stradden isn't some investigative reporter, he is a news manager.

    I beleive this site is here to keep the fanbase up to date on MMO news and happenings, not try to be the Heraldo Rivera of the MMO news industry.

    And btw, MMORPG.COM most certainly did report the vets side of the NGE debacle in their first podcast, or was it the second perhaps...

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ClackamasClackamas Renton, WAPosts: 776Member


    Originally posted by Fadeus


    Originally posted by Clackamas

    Originally posted by Stradden
    My role in this case is as Community Manager. As Community Manager, it is my job to see that the forums run smoothly and that everyone is following the rules. We have noticed that many threads are being hijacked to talk about people's feelings toward Sony Online Entertainment. So, this sticky was created.
    My role as News Manager is different. As News Editor, it is not up to me to judge a company, but rather to report the news as it comes in. When major announcements are made, it is my job to bring them to you. You are free to form your own opinions on any of the news items that are presented to you.
    I hope that clears things up for you.
    Cheers,
    Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager
    I see, so it isn't news that SOE has contributed to such a long standing criticism by veteran players?  Why isn't there  news about that?  Or, are you saying that the only news matters is when SOE announces something?Again, the fact you had to create this thread suggests a story is there.... but I have yet to see one from MMORPG that reports the veteran players side of what SOE did...


    I am quite sure you could do the legwork, type out a well written constructive article about SOE's failings and submit it to here with a chance of it getting it posted or posting it as a thread yourself Clackamas. Stradden isn't some investigative reporter, he is a news manager.

    I beleive this site is here to keep the fanbase up to date on MMO news and happenings, not try to be the Heraldo Rivera of the MMO news industry.



    Its more fun to see commerical news organizaitions to be critical of corporations.  Besides, the reading level of the average person in the US is about 8th or 9th grade.  Their critical resaoning skills are about the same level.  So, it is much better for the sheep to told to follow by an established news organization rather than some apparently disgruntal customer.  But, then again, news medias are not highly ethical, moral institutions either... no money to made in that.
  • ScarisScaris Arlington, VAPosts: 5,332Member

    Originally posted by Clackamas
    Its more fun to see commerical news organizaitions to be critical of corporations.  Besides, the reading level of the average person in the US is about 8th or 9th grade.  Their critical resaoning skills are about the same level.  So, it is much better for the sheep to told to follow by an established news organization rather than some apparently disgruntal customer.  But, then again, news medias are not highly ethical, moral institutions either... no money to made in that.

    So you just want everyone to be lead into a dislike for SOE instead of deciding for themselves. You are sitting there piping about making sure the vets get their side reported when it already has, and then you don't actually want to do the work yourself.

    Perhaps they don't want to listen to the disgruntled customer because they know in reality the truth of the event is probably somwhere in the middle and not on the raving lunatics side of the evil corporations side.

    And apparently you feel everyone EXCEPT you are sheep lead by the media?

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ClackamasClackamas Renton, WAPosts: 776Member


    Originally posted by Fadeus

    Originally posted by Clackamas


    And apparently you feel everyone EXCEPT you are sheep lead by the media?


    Naw I am not the only one but one of the few.  The rest are lead by media because they can't be bothered, have never been taught or failed to learn critical thinking skills.  And applies to both fanbois and pro pre-CU/pre-NGE posters alike.
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This discussion has been closed.