I can agree, and did, 100% on that. That is why KS, Fig etc are so important. The oversite. That's why I will never "donate" money to anything outside of KS types.
Not that KS has been able to get any money "donated" back from failed projects AFAIK. My first KS game was Greedmonger. Didn't put much into it but it's gone forever, although JA did try to give some kind of cryptocurrency to backers as compensation but KS made him stop. I got mine before he had to stop but have no idea what I got or how to use it.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
I got mine before he had to stop but have no idea what I got or how to use it.
Greedmonger....lol. That was a while ago, maybe you got bitcoin and now have a few hundred thousand!
I wish! It was just a few months ago and it's not quite bitcoin as I understand it. It's called Waves. https://coinsutra.com/waves-cryptocurrency/ breaks it down. I have $25 of whatever it is.
EDIT:According to a person on the KS page for GM all the "money" given by JA is now worthless as he has abandoned his cryptcurrency project. The "money" was actually a new bitcoin thing JA was trying to create. I can't make this up!
I will agree that ANET shot themselves in the foot when they added their boxes to the controversy thats going on. Outside of that, for the longest time it has had one of the best business models in mmorpgs out there. It has no place in that poll when there is Destiny 2 out there.
And yet you complain and get quite judgemental when other people mess around with "you lot". Interesting.
Only the hypocrisy, little to do with the messing.
I couldn't agree more. The hypocrisy needs to go. And since you are just as condescending, smug and judgmental as the OP and me apparently are, it is great to hear you are planning to take it down a notch too, since your tone differs not one bit of those you accuse. We're all just messing you know, no need to pick one side or start down talking.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And yet you complain and get quite judgemental when other people mess around with "you lot". Interesting.
Only the hypocrisy, little to do with the messing.
I couldn't agree more. The hypocrisy needs to go. And since you are just as condescending, smug and judgmental as the OP and me apparently are, it is great to hear you are planning to take it down a notch too, since your tone differs not one bit of those you accuse. We're all just messing you know, no need to pick one side or start down talking.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You do not understand, I have no issues with being an ass. The only hypocrisy here was yours. Looks like I have another stalker fan!
And yet you complain and get quite judgemental when other people mess around with "you lot". Interesting.
Only the hypocrisy, little to do with the messing.
I couldn't agree more. The hypocrisy needs to go. And since you are just as condescending, smug and judgmental as the OP and me apparently are, it is great to hear you are planning to take it down a notch too, since your tone differs not one bit of those you accuse. We're all just messing you know, no need to pick one side or start down talking.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You do not understand, I have no issues with being an ass. The only hypocrisy here was yours. Looks like I have another stalker fan!
Nah, I don't really care about you or the matter. I do find it funny you chose to use the word hypocrite though, something with a mirror and all.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And yet you complain and get quite judgemental when other people mess around with "you lot". Interesting.
Only the hypocrisy, little to do with the messing.
I couldn't agree more. The hypocrisy needs to go. And since you are just as condescending, smug and judgmental as the OP and me apparently are, it is great to hear you are planning to take it down a notch too, since your tone differs not one bit of those you accuse. We're all just messing you know, no need to pick one side or start down talking.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You do not understand, I have no issues with being an ass. The only hypocrisy here was yours. Looks like I have another stalker fan!
Nah, I don't really care about you or the matter. I do find it funny you chose to use the word hypocrite though, something with a mirror and all.
IF SC has the worst model... then that is the entire Kickstarter model... And that would include all the rest of them. Because the model is the same... even if the use might differ.
Ergo... the bloody poll has about the same worth as a stick of gum.
It has certainly come to my attention that this entire SC angst is mostly about crowdfunding. I love the bit where lots of people get offended on my behalf! People seem to think it is somehow their business what happens to MY money! Worse still a lot of these people are not even financially involved themselves. They are just mad at the method Chris Roberts is able to fund making Star Citizen and how successful it is. What twisted souls.
if that were the case Bernie Madoff (most famous) and most guys like him would still be running their ponzi schemes.
It may only be a matter of time before Roberts joins Madoff in infamy if we get the financials and see what people have been claiming all along.
And Madoff got money from a lot of SMART people. but he also fed off their greed. Roberts feeds off something else with his flock. Probably more than one actually.
Nothing you can actually point to, but lets just make accusations anyway!
Since it seems all the mirrors in your house are broken and your complete lack of self reflection is painfully evident, lets dance.
I read back the entire thread and before I came in all you contributed was condescending, bullying nonsense. You say I didn't contribute anything to the discussion, well you contributed even less, just the drivel you accuse others of. Hey, that might seem a bit hypocritical, accusing others of that which you are doing yourself.
You then tear the OP and me a new one with snarly, down talking comments but cry foul about defaming and insulting at the same time, pot meet kettle. Hell, you even admit not minding being an ass, it shows in YOUR insulting, defaming attitude.
Then you cry hypocrisy out of nowhere and start talking about the one liner I keep using. I ask for an explanation but don't get one, yet here you are accusing me of having nothing to actually point to at the same time, see a pattern by now?
THAT is why I say you should take a look into the mirror yourself. And you can stop with the wise ass attitude, I am not impressed by any of what you have typed so far, you've only made a case against yourself, not in favor of it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Put up ships to optionally buy to help development. People bought, others didn't (and still don't). Game is being developed. Sounds like a good business model.
It has certainly come to my attention that this entire SC angst is mostly about crowdfunding. I love the bit where lots of people get offended on my behalf! People seem to think it is somehow their business what happens to MY money! Worse still a lot of these people are not even financially involved themselves. They are just mad at the method Chris Roberts is able to fund making Star Citizen and how successful it is. What twisted souls.
Pfft I've probably crowdfunded around ~20 different projects. I think it's a great idea. CIG however has been taking the piss. Constantly selling things that are years away while at the same time not having delivered things they sold years ago. The worst thing is that the things they sell is the actual content and progression of the game they're making. Takes the joy out of playing and working towards something when thousands of people already have everything on launch day.
As for caring what happens to YOUR money... I've explained this numerous times. It's people like you who buy all this crap shady companies like CIG sell who are to blame for the current crisis of corporate greed with gambling loot boxes and pre-selling in-game progression content years and years in advance. YOUR money is affecting MY gameplay experience.
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
Or you would be playing no version of SC because the company tanked and the game went the way of the Dodo.
We can´t know and there is no real point in speculating because there is no way to go back in time.
But here is the brass tax... The model they use to sell their game is not bad per se. Think what you like about the game or the developers but the model it self is actually pretty solid. Without it there would be NO game. That is for sure.
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
Or you would be playing no version of SC because the company tanked and the game went the way of the Dodo.
We can´t know and there is no real point in speculating because there is no way to go back in time.
But here is the brass tax... The model they use to sell their game is not bad per se. Think what you like about the game or the developers but the model it self is actually pretty solid. Without it there would be NO game. That is for sure.
Um... just so I can get this straight, are you talking about Star Citizen with that last paragraph? Or was that one meant to be in response to that other talk in this thread about Star Trek Online (or one of those other games on the poll that actually exists that a few posts here are discussing about) or something?
What do you mean, "shallow piece of demo crap"? Star Citizen is good! Once it releases I'll probably play an adventurer, exploring the verse and searching for undiscovered exotic proc-gen animal species. I'll then make documentaries and put them on play non-stop of these giant billboards I'll have all around my homemade moonbase. In my spare time in the verse, I'll probably be a professionnal nascar racer, cos girls love that kind of duck. What about you, sgel, which profession will you play?
Who cares if it's a MMO or not, fact is it's the worst business model of anything in the history of mankind. You know they have been flushing cash down the drain since the beginning, I am sure that wingnut guy cost them 20 or 30 million.
With SC, I've never seen a kickstarter open offices around the world. Their business management skills do need work. Stretched too thin it appears.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Well, it's kinda to be expected that a non-regulated business model has the potential to be far worse than a regulated one for obvious reasons. Regulations exist in large part to keep business models from getting too bad, after all.
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
Or you would be playing no version of SC because the company tanked and the game went the way of the Dodo.
We can´t know and there is no real point in speculating because there is no way to go back in time.
Yeah there is. We can go back in time to the point Croberts said that he could build the game with 20mil or that more money would just speed up development, not delay it.
Then more money came in and he decided to add more and more and more and more and more and here we are with 5% of that game implemented at best.
And what you mention can still happen.. the moron has 500+ devs working on this and had to hire A+++ actors for his cringey game/movie. He's a child with a degree in mismanagement
It has certainly come to my attention that this entire SC angst is mostly about crowdfunding. I love the bit where lots of people get offended on my behalf! People seem to think it is somehow their business what happens to MY money! Worse still a lot of these people are not even financially involved themselves. They are just mad at the method Chris Roberts is able to fund making Star Citizen and how successful it is. What twisted souls.
Pfft I've probably crowdfunded around ~20 different projects. I think it's a great idea. CIG however has been taking the piss. Constantly selling things that are years away while at the same time not having delivered things they sold years ago.
What does it matter about the order or process as long as they are there for launch? Most games crowdfunders you will not get your perks until the game launches. With Star Citizen you might get a chance to get hours and hours of joy from a ship you bought, perhaps focus on what you do get instead of what you don't.
The worst thing is that the things they sell is the actual content and progression of the game they're making. Takes the joy out of playing and working towards something when thousands of people already have everything on launch day.
Ship shells are not meant to be the full focus of any progression as far as I know. But I am interested in why it would matter to you how far others want to push their 'progression' prior to launch? I have an Aurora, that is all I own and all I want to own because that was all that was needed to get access to the game. Further to this I don't think even 'Thousands' fit your category. You would need to buy over half the ships for that surely, I doubt there are even a hundred or so people in that position and a lot of those just do it from a business perspective!
As for caring what happens to YOUR money... I've explained this numerous times. It's people like you who buy all this crap shady companies like CIG sell who are to blame for the current crisis of corporate greed with gambling loot boxes and pre-selling in-game progression content years and years in advance. YOUR money is affecting MY gameplay experience.
Average amount that people have spent is around $80. That is far cheaper than some of the other games out there (looking at you ED!), way way cheaper than any subscription model which ends up in the $150 range per year and this development is in year 5!
On top of that you don't have to play the game, it is only affecting you if you choose to play those games, but I am still struggling to see how badly this is affecting you in SC, there is nothing behind a paywall, generally people have spent well within normal range compared to any other game?
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
What we have is the base game to a far superior game, perhaps the makings of the best game that has ever been created due to the increase of people who are interested in supporting the crowdfunding of the development. Every person who joins and buys their starter ship is where most of the funds come from, not 'people like me' spending uber thousands and thousands on more stuff. The shear success and interest of near 2 million people and counting kicked the original game scope to the kerb as funding skyrocketed as people voted for an improved version. Star Citizens increased success comes from this bold vision and 3.0 is the proof that they are making it happen.
As I stated, your issues here are related to the crowdfunding model, nothing else, not 'people like me' and my imaginary uber thousands and thousands. Majority of money comes from new folks buying a single ship for access.
Comments
Not that KS has been able to get any money "donated" back from failed projects AFAIK. My first KS game was Greedmonger. Didn't put much into it but it's gone forever, although JA did try to give some kind of cryptocurrency to backers as compensation but KS made him stop. I got mine before he had to stop but have no idea what I got or how to use it.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-0-question
It may not be an "MMO" in it's current state, but that certainly seems like what the CIG team is putting efforts into...
EDIT:According to a person on the KS page for GM all the "money" given by JA is now worthless as he has abandoned his cryptcurrency project. The "money" was actually a new bitcoin thing JA was trying to create. I can't make this up!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2109326.msg24520608#msg24520608
Anyway getting OT here. Although I am surprised that this didn't get any publicity here.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
It may only be a matter of time before Roberts joins Madoff in infamy if we get the financials and see what people have been claiming all along.
And Madoff got money from a lot of SMART people. but he also fed off their greed. Roberts feeds off something else with his flock. Probably more than one actually.
I read back the entire thread and before I came in all you contributed was condescending, bullying nonsense. You say I didn't contribute anything to the discussion, well you contributed even less, just the drivel you accuse others of. Hey, that might seem a bit hypocritical, accusing others of that which you are doing yourself.
You then tear the OP and me a new one with snarly, down talking comments but cry foul about defaming and insulting at the same time, pot meet kettle. Hell, you even admit not minding being an ass, it shows in YOUR insulting, defaming attitude.
Then you cry hypocrisy out of nowhere and start talking about the one liner I keep using. I ask for an explanation but don't get one, yet here you are accusing me of having nothing to actually point to at the same time, see a pattern by now?
THAT is why I say you should take a look into the mirror yourself. And you can stop with the wise ass attitude, I am not impressed by any of what you have typed so far, you've only made a case against yourself, not in favor of it.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I think it's a great idea.
CIG however has been taking the piss.
Constantly selling things that are years away while at the same time not having delivered things they sold years ago.
The worst thing is that the things they sell is the actual content and progression of the game they're making. Takes the joy out of playing and working towards something when thousands of people already have everything on launch day.
As for caring what happens to YOUR money... I've explained this numerous times.
It's people like you who buy all this crap shady companies like CIG sell who are to blame for the current crisis of corporate greed with gambling loot boxes and pre-selling in-game progression content years and years in advance.
YOUR money is affecting MY gameplay experience.
I'd probably be playing a more complete version of Star Citizen if you and your buddies weren't playing up to Crobert's greed and he actually had to deliver something before his play money ran out. Instead we have this shallow piece of demo crap that lacks any of the countless interesting gameplay mechanics promised whatsoever.
..Cake..
We can´t know and there is no real point in speculating because there is no way to go back in time.
But here is the brass tax... The model they use to sell their game is not bad per se. Think what you like about the game or the developers but the model it self is actually pretty solid. Without it there would be NO game. That is for sure.
This have been a good conversation
Once it releases I'll probably play an adventurer, exploring the verse and searching for undiscovered exotic proc-gen animal species.
I'll then make documentaries and put them on play non-stop of these giant billboards I'll have all around my homemade moonbase.
In my spare time in the verse, I'll probably be a professionnal nascar racer, cos girls love that kind of duck.
What about you, sgel, which profession will you play?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Have you seen these, updates on all the ships planed for SC and where they are in the pipeline?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
(I did say "potential" for a reason, of course)
Then more money came in and he decided to add more and more and more and more and more and here we are with 5% of that game implemented at best.
And what you mention can still happen.. the moron has 500+ devs working on this and had to hire A+++ actors for his cringey game/movie. He's a child with a degree in mismanagement
..Cake..
Ship shells are not meant to be the full focus of any progression as far as I know. But I am interested in why it would matter to you how far others want to push their 'progression' prior to launch? I have an Aurora, that is all I own and all I want to own because that was all that was needed to get access to the game. Further to this I don't think even 'Thousands' fit your category. You would need to buy over half the ships for that surely, I doubt there are even a hundred or so people in that position and a lot of those just do it from a business perspective!
Average amount that people have spent is around $80. That is far cheaper than some of the other games out there (looking at you ED!), way way cheaper than any subscription model which ends up in the $150 range per year and this development is in year 5!
On top of that you don't have to play the game, it is only affecting you if you choose to play those games, but I am still struggling to see how badly this is affecting you in SC, there is nothing behind a paywall, generally people have spent well within normal range compared to any other game?
People like me? I spent $35 /shrug 'sorry'.
What we have is the base game to a far superior game, perhaps the makings of the best game that has ever been created due to the increase of people who are interested in supporting the crowdfunding of the development. Every person who joins and buys their starter ship is where most of the funds come from, not 'people like me' spending uber thousands and thousands on more stuff. The shear success and interest of near 2 million people and counting kicked the original game scope to the kerb as funding skyrocketed as people voted for an improved version. Star Citizens increased success comes from this bold vision and 3.0 is the proof that they are making it happen.
As I stated, your issues here are related to the crowdfunding model, nothing else, not 'people like me' and my imaginary uber thousands and thousands. Majority of money comes from new folks buying a single ship for access.