Should Blizzard be tuning their raids for "professional" player guilds. They're the only teams that realistically ever get WF so why do we perpetually make such a big deal and roll out the red carpet for them.
Maybe if Blizzard should be designing raid content for their main base. It feels like they're hanging onto an outdated cultural trope that clings to the game like a decaying vestige.
I mentioned on another thread I'd like to see them do away with raiding for chance drops and, instead, create endgame content that rewards players with gear based on completion.
Take the raid, break it up into multiple parts that are the culmination of epic quest chains for each part. It delivers quality questing content that gives players long-term endgame goals without having them repeat content over and over.
The fact that one of the bosses was defeated without a single melee DPS class is horrible design. At the very most, Blizz should reform one of the currently disbanded, but former world first, guilds to conduct testing. Make these guys work for it.
This is all on Blizzard, though in a sense, it cheapens any WF achievement.
We'll see how Argus goes.
I am a former... let's say almost top Mythic raider. My guild hovered around top 50-15 for years, with our best times during Cataclysm and HFC/WoD.
Even from our position, you have no idea how much work went into that - and Method/Exorsus/Serenity would put 3 times as much work. It might look easy to outsiders, but it's a months long preparation on multiple characters.
What looks cheap&easy to an outsider is hardcore 2-4 weeks of 10-12 hrs/day, unpaid WORK. If you think more needs to be done to prolong this burn process, I feel you might be mistaken. If anything, measures should be taken to prevent people to binge these weeks so others, not just fucking Method, would stand a chance without having to sink 12 hrs/day.
"Make these guys work for it". You really need to raid at that level and see how it is first. Then you will maybe understand that work should be PAID. Are we getting paid for raiding at high level? No? Then it should remain fun territory. When Blizz announces prizes, official competitions, a sustainable pro player structure for raiders, then we can talk working, as it means payment.
By the way, wiping 600 times of Kil'Jaden is NOT fun to anyone. It's simply a matter of "oh my god we started this we have to finish while I rip my hair off". A matter of dumb wowprogress positioning. It's not even about gear anymore. "Working" for goals in games should always remain fun, not cringe fiestas of tension and frustration followed by people leaving the game and fighting with each other.
Alternatively, show us the moolah, and we can actually talk about work.
one of the many reasons I stopped playing games with dungeons/raids was directly due to the requirement to go look at videos of other people doing these dungeons to win. It takes away all of the fun when you have to go look at the spoilers before actually doing it. It was also definitely not fun to constantly change gear every expansion, all of the stuff I'd gone through in every expansion, it's tiresome to throw out what you just worked so hard for only to have to continue the neverending treadmill.
one of the many reasons I stopped playing games with dungeons/raids was directly due to the requirement to go look at videos of other people doing these dungeons to win. It takes away all of the fun when you have to go look at the spoilers before actually doing it. It was also definitely not fun to constantly change gear every expansion, all of the stuff I'd gone through in every expansion, it's tiresome to throw out what you just worked so hard for only to have to continue the neverending treadmill.
This only became a thing with WoW and YouTube.
There are two main issues I have with WoW raiding:
1. Add-Ons are ready to go on day one, pretty much. They walk you through raid mechanics to a fairly large degree. If you aren't running DBM or something similar, you will be exposed fairly immediately.
2. Guilds basically require their members to know the strats (from YouTube videos, etc.) before they've ever attempted the encounters. If you have not "studied" the raids, in most cases you will be exposed fairly immediately.
Raiding was so much more fun in the EQ days when there was a legit, organic progression to it. Getting a World First actually meant something in 2000-2006 EQ (not sure how it is these days).
I think the game could benefit by getting the Add-On system disabled. It's good in theory, but it trivializes too much. Players are paying more attention to the Add-Ons than the actual content they're playing through.
Comments
Take the raid, break it up into multiple parts that are the culmination of epic quest chains for each part. It delivers quality questing content that gives players long-term endgame goals without having them repeat content over and over.
I am a former... let's say almost top Mythic raider. My guild hovered around top 50-15 for years, with our best times during Cataclysm and HFC/WoD.
Even from our position, you have no idea how much work went into that - and Method/Exorsus/Serenity would put 3 times as much work. It might look easy to outsiders, but it's a months long preparation on multiple characters.
What looks cheap&easy to an outsider is hardcore 2-4 weeks of 10-12 hrs/day, unpaid WORK. If you think more needs to be done to prolong this burn process, I feel you might be mistaken. If anything, measures should be taken to prevent people to binge these weeks so others, not just fucking Method, would stand a chance without having to sink 12 hrs/day.
"Make these guys work for it". You really need to raid at that level and see how it is first. Then you will maybe understand that work should be PAID. Are we getting paid for raiding at high level? No? Then it should remain fun territory. When Blizz announces prizes, official competitions, a sustainable pro player structure for raiders, then we can talk working, as it means payment.
By the way, wiping 600 times of Kil'Jaden is NOT fun to anyone. It's simply a matter of "oh my god we started this we have to finish while I rip my hair off". A matter of dumb wowprogress positioning. It's not even about gear anymore. "Working" for goals in games should always remain fun, not cringe fiestas of tension and frustration followed by people leaving the game and fighting with each other.
Alternatively, show us the moolah, and we can actually talk about work.
This only became a thing with WoW and YouTube.
There are two main issues I have with WoW raiding:
1. Add-Ons are ready to go on day one, pretty much. They walk you through raid mechanics to a fairly large degree. If you aren't running DBM or something similar, you will be exposed fairly immediately.
2. Guilds basically require their members to know the strats (from YouTube videos, etc.) before they've ever attempted the encounters. If you have not "studied" the raids, in most cases you will be exposed fairly immediately.
Raiding was so much more fun in the EQ days when there was a legit, organic progression to it. Getting a World First actually meant something in 2000-2006 EQ (not sure how it is these days).
I think the game could benefit by getting the Add-On system disabled. It's good in theory, but it trivializes too much. Players are paying more attention to the Add-Ons than the actual content they're playing through.