Gonna be honest Blade and soul easily has the best PVP gameplay out by a fare margin, its too bad they didn't build in a more substantial system around it. It is very much a modern DAOC feel to the combat.
Hard to argue with eve as 1 and DAOC as 2 both are incredible pvp experiences, even though I never cared for the spreadsheet style combat of EVE.
I haven't played PvP in all of those games listed, so I can't complain too much. I wonder how radically this list is going to change once the current crop of in-development indie MMOs come out - games like Crowfall and CU. Hmm.
I'll just copy/paste what I wrote on the reddit thread.
Lineage 1 should be on the list way before GW2. It eclipses Guild Wars 2 revenue by magnitudes every quarter and has been running with around a million subs for nearly 20 years now.
Not only that but the L1 and L2 move to mobile would crush all their other revenue combined except L1 is also on desktop and accounts for majority revenue across the board. The only thing giving it a run at the moment is BnS but I doubt that popularity will last longer than Aion.
While I agree with you these lists are often skewed by what titles their authors have actually played and enjoyed.
While adored in the East, neither L1 or L2 ever had great popularity here in the West.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Lineage 2 castle sieges were the best pvp action I ever found in a mmo. Even though open world pvp/pk has harsh penalties I loved making people lose hard earned xp when I killed them lol. Our clan also had a perma red char we’d bring around to gank everyone.
Warhammer being even mentioned on this list is just bad
I'll just copy/paste what I wrote on the reddit thread.
Lineage 1 should be on the list way before GW2. It eclipses Guild Wars 2 revenue by magnitudes every quarter and has been running with around a million subs for nearly 20 years now.
Not only that but the L1 and L2 move to mobile would crush all their other revenue combined except L1 is also on desktop and accounts for majority revenue across the board. The only thing giving it a run at the moment is BnS but I doubt that popularity will last longer than Aion.
While I agree with you these lists are often skewed by what titles their authors have actually played and enjoyed.
While adored in the East, neither L1 or L2 ever had great popularity here in the West.
And you have to respect that. Most people keep talking about games they have never played these days.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Great list! I agree with the picks. My first thought was that the list would be open world PvP only games like L2 but this is actually a good list as I have played just about all of them as a PvE person and can say the PvE and PvP wasn't bad.
I disagree it's a great list. It's a horrible list of the 5 "best pvp mmos". WAR was an abysmal failure and deeply flawed in a couple places. Both GW2 and ESO struggle to maintain a pvp community. It would be a great list of the top 5 mmos with some of the most interesting pvp mechanics or systems, but not the greatest list.
WoW does belong on the list because even on pve servers people still engage in world pvp. There are opposite players attacking NPCs and flagged to fight. If you didn't open the dungeon finders in GW2 and ESO you might not even know those games have PvP.
Guild Wars 1 belongs on that list before GW2 because even though it's revenue is small compared to the latter it was played for the pvp and has great pvp systems. GW1 had e-sports, something neither GW2 or ESO has pulled off much to their chagrin, and had spectator modes that were popular with non-pvp players.
There are several other MMOs that would make a better fit for the list. For one thing both GW2 and ESO aren't even mmo pvp. They're instanced map pvp in an mmo. You'd get better pvp from a Destiny 2 or CoD: WW2 battleground.
The problem with the list isn't that those are bad games or that their pvp is bad. They aren't and it's not. It's that their not great pvp games and there are greater pvp mmos and mmo-lites.
If you include Destiny 2 or CoD: WW2, then the scope of the list logically blooms to "best competitive multiplayer game" in general.
As such, comparing even instanced MMORPG PvP to Destiny or CoD is apples to oranges.
Not that I disagree with other parts of your post, but the second to last paragraph doesn't seem relevant to "PvP MMO".
I'll just copy/paste what I wrote on the reddit thread.
Lineage 1 should be on the list way before GW2. It eclipses Guild Wars 2 revenue by magnitudes every quarter and has been running with around a million subs for nearly 20 years now.
Not only that but the L1 and L2 move to mobile would crush all their other revenue combined except L1 is also on desktop and accounts for majority revenue across the board. The only thing giving it a run at the moment is BnS but I doubt that popularity will last longer than Aion.
While I agree with you these lists are often skewed by what titles their authors have actually played and enjoyed.
While adored in the East, neither L1 or L2 ever had great popularity here in the West.
Neither did DAoC or most any of the hardcore PvP games on that list. Even EVE isn't that popular compared to PvE mmos and non mmo PvP. It has never really held an concurrency greater than 40k for very long and that's during the heyday.
The only really "popular" games on that list are WoW and ESO and trailing a distant third GW2.
It's funny how inconsistent we are when including or excluding SEA and other regions. WoW is only the numeric gorilla on the landscape because of those regions, but when it comes to listing a top 5 best list, we exclude them because they're now irrelevant.
I get why they're not included, but in a community that holds honesty, transparency, and consistency in high esteem I also see the irony and it smells like cow.
It's been a very long time but I think it was in the spring / summer of 2002 when I played L1 on the US servers.
I joined the non-PVP server, and as I recall it was more popular than the PVP server(s) however players logged in was under 1K for each.
I don't recall if there even was more than 2 servers at the time.
So that same fall I got pissed at NCSoft for nerfing my wizard yet again so left to try out DAOC.
Here I found 10 plus servers with population's ranging from 800 to 2300 logged in, and I chose one in the middle, MLF which averaged 1700 or so.
No clue how other games compared then but at around 250K subscribers I think DAOC well compared to EQ1, UO and other market leaders at the time.
WOW changed everything in the MMO space so comparisons with it and games afterwards aren't relevant in my mind.
Same for comparisons to eastern markets, they are so very different. Heck those folks eat things I don't even consider food...but then same goes for haggis I suppose.
It would be important to note DAOC did not fare well in Japan and I recall them closing those servers and moving their players to MLF as I used to group with some of them. (Big laughs due to language barriers)
So regardless, my guess is far more western gamers tried or played DAOC and even EVE than most any asian title without a FF label on it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll just copy/paste what I wrote on the reddit thread.
Lineage 1 should be on the list way before GW2. It eclipses Guild Wars 2 revenue by magnitudes every quarter and has been running with around a million subs for nearly 20 years now.
Not only that but the L1 and L2 move to mobile would crush all their other revenue combined except L1 is also on desktop and accounts for majority revenue across the board. The only thing giving it a run at the moment is BnS but I doubt that popularity will last longer than Aion.
While I agree with you these lists are often skewed by what titles their authors have actually played and enjoyed.
While adored in the East, neither L1 or L2 ever had great popularity here in the West.
And you have to respect that. Most people keep talking about games they have never played these days.
Yes, when I provide a list of what I consider to be the best I have to leave off the many games I never got to including FFXI, UO, AC1, EQ1, AO, Runescape, and a host of smaller MMOs around then.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ultima Online should always be #1 until some one does it better. The depth an skill needed for pvp in those first years has never been matched
I've never really seen this said much before, while I didn't play UO a guild I belonged to in DAOC had a strong presence and they spoke of it often.
They made a name for themselves role playing as an all Orc guild that would basically naked zerg others to win fights.
Been my experience in most MMOs that fighting against others only when you have a definitive advantage in either gear or numbers is the best approach especially when you have full looting.
"Skill" rarely enters into the equation unless you are referring to prowess in setting up "no lose" scenarios.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are talking out if your arse and have never plaued the game apparently. From the sounds of it, you haven't even seen combat in a video let alone played the game. Lol combat is spreadsheets? Bad troll is bad
I would just love to see WoW or any other MMO try to come close to what EvE has done in the PvP arena. I have been in 3K player fights over a station, small gang warfare (anywhere between 10 to 100 pilot fights), and witnessed large corporations (guilds) taken down by one person without firing a single shot.
Way back in 2010, we wrote a List of the Top 5
PVP MMOs. Well, seven years on (almost eight), how does it hold up?
Read on to find out.
Then, to make it easy for all of you, Bill pasted in the OLD LIST (you know, WoW). These threads would be a lot more interesting to read if posters bothered to read the articles.
Ultima Online should always be #1 until some one does it better. The depth an skill needed for pvp in those first years has never been matched
I've never really seen this said much before, while I didn't play UO a guild I belonged to in DAOC had a strong presence and they spoke of it often.
They made a name for themselves role playing as an all Orc guild that would basically naked zerg others to win fights.
Been my experience in most MMOs that fighting against others only when you have a definitive advantage in either gear or numbers is the best approach especially when you have full looting.
"Skill" rarely enters into the equation unless you are referring to prowess in setting up "no lose" scenarios.
Ive played UO for 20 years now , you will surely recognize a skilled player when you see one or fall victim to one ..
Altho zerging is a staple in many MMOs and in UO it was used also .. But more times than not in even number fights , the Skilled stand out
Ultima Online should always be #1 until some one does it better. The depth an skill needed for pvp in those first years has never been matched
I've never really seen this said much before, while I didn't play UO a guild I belonged to in DAOC had a strong presence and they spoke of it often.
They made a name for themselves role playing as an all Orc guild that would basically naked zerg others to win fights.
Been my experience in most MMOs that fighting against others only when you have a definitive advantage in either gear or numbers is the best approach especially when you have full looting.
"Skill" rarely enters into the equation unless you are referring to prowess in setting up "no lose" scenarios.
Ive played UO for 20 years now , you will surely recognize a skilled player when you see one or fall victim to one ..
Altho zerging is a staple in many MMOs and in UO it was used also .. But more times than not in even number fights , the Skilled stand out
As often said in EVE, if you find yourself in a fair fight, you've done something terribly wrong.
Every MMO some subset of skilled players, who understand how to win big, and often.
I just found it odd for someone to claim UO took special skill, first time I've seen that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Hard to argue with eve as 1 and DAOC as 2 both are incredible pvp experiences, even though I never cared for the spreadsheet style combat of EVE.
Where the heck are all the open pvp mmos? I thought we were talking about PvP MMOs, not MMOs with good PvP aspects?
Shadowbane, Darkfall, Runescape, Lineage 2 are games that come to mind
While I agree with you these lists are often skewed by what titles their authors have actually played and enjoyed.
While adored in the East, neither L1 or L2 ever had great popularity here in the West.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Warhammer being even mentioned on this list is just bad
As such, comparing even instanced MMORPG PvP to Destiny or CoD is apples to oranges.
Not that I disagree with other parts of your post, but the second to last paragraph doesn't seem relevant to "PvP MMO".
I joined the non-PVP server, and as I recall it was more popular than the PVP server(s) however players logged in was under 1K for each.
I don't recall if there even was more than 2 servers at the time.
So that same fall I got pissed at NCSoft for nerfing my wizard yet again so left to try out DAOC.
Here I found 10 plus servers with population's ranging from 800 to 2300 logged in, and I chose one in the middle, MLF which averaged 1700 or so.
No clue how other games compared then but at around 250K subscribers I think DAOC well compared to EQ1, UO and other market leaders at the time.
WOW changed everything in the MMO space so comparisons with it and games afterwards aren't relevant in my mind.
Same for comparisons to eastern markets, they are so very different. Heck those folks eat things I don't even consider food...but then same goes for haggis I suppose.
It would be important to note DAOC did not fare well in Japan and I recall them closing those servers and moving their players to MLF as I used to group with some of them. (Big laughs due to language barriers)
So regardless, my guess is far more western gamers tried or played DAOC and even EVE than most any asian title without a FF label on it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Guess i need to review my MMO website list.
They made a name for themselves role playing as an all Orc guild that would basically naked zerg others to win fights.
Been my experience in most MMOs that fighting against others only when you have a definitive advantage in either gear or numbers is the best approach especially when you have full looting.
"Skill" rarely enters into the equation unless you are referring to prowess in setting up "no lose" scenarios.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are talking out if your arse and have never plaued the game apparently. From the sounds of it, you haven't even seen combat in a video let alone played the game. Lol combat is spreadsheets? Bad troll is bad
GW2 is complete shit
Altho zerging is a staple in many MMOs and in UO it was used also .. But more times than not in even number fights , the Skilled stand out
Every MMO some subset of skilled players, who understand how to win big, and often.
I just found it odd for someone to claim UO took special skill, first time I've seen that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MurderHerd
~~ postlarval ~~