I personally enjoy progression systems based mainly on effort rather than rng; eg, I prefer token systems for gear rather than rng drops in dungeons. And if I'm going to pay money for "convenience", I would much rather know exactly what I am getting rather than taking a gamble on a loot box.
I think loot boxes could work in some games, if they fit in with the overall theme of the game. However, most games just seem to have shoehorned lootboxes in (eg, Shadow of War, BF2) and they just don't seem to mesh with the game from a gameplay perspective or add anything positive to the game itself.
Seriously, I think very few people want them in the game but when they are there more then a few can't help themselves and buy them anyways. Since some of them have a chanse to drop something really good many just can't help themselves.
Contrary to many companies' blatant lies, loot boxes don't exist to enhance the players' experience, so it'd be strange if most people DID want or like them. Loot boxes are there primarily for the company's (bottom line's) sake, not for yours or for anyone else's. Because they feed off of gambling addictions as well as the fact that the contents can be made exclusive to them, companies don't have to worry as much about making the game GOOD or as FUN (and in fact are encouraged to do the opposite in some cases if it'll drive people to buy more loot boxes to replace what the developersare purposefully leaving out) to make money.
If all you have to do is set some odds in your favor and then slap a loot box on the market so you can make money off of the few big whales willing to spend to get the item in them (whether those whales like it or not, and from my conversation with fellow whales and my own experience, it's almost always "not"), why should the company care whether or not people want loot boxes in their game?
And they know this, too. When Astros of Marvel Heroes' development team was called out on it, he told them it was because Marvel Heroes wasn't making enough money. Did he tell them it would make the game more fun? Did it ever come up that maybe, the game would make more money if they actually improved the game? NO. IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
The only "good" thing about loot boxes from ther customers' perspective is they might keep an online game afloat a bit longer because of the increased spending from whales (IE, those customers can leech off whales a bit more). In cases like those, though, the game probably deserved to die in the first place if it wasn't good enough to get money from people without resorting to such things (and there's a good chance the game will die anyways. Marvel Heroes fell under both categories)
I like them when they are limited and can offer something unique and not game changing. . so nothing that will make a company extra revenue. I don't *mind* whales subsidizing my games but I do know there will be a lot of people buying them who don't have the money.
So the type of loot boxes that the OP means. . no I don't. It was smart to turn the answer on its head that way to make the point clear. Even whales would likely prefer to chose the advantage they buy.
I liken them to lottery tickets. .. but real money and a virtual payout.. . . hey. . no more lot boxes for me. Imma get me some lottery tickets and buy lootboxes later with all my winnings! Incoming WHALE!
There are things in life that when asked - nobody wants
Like ask anyone if they want pain, sadness, disapointment, death etc.... most people dont want these things as they label them as "undesirable".
However undesirable things are crucial for growth, also for providing meaning and contrast for positive and desirable parts of life. Without the lows, we wouldnt experience the highs either.
Now as far as OP "why do want loot boxes?"
Loot boxes are really "RNG to get loot", so lets just call them RNG as that is the core component, and while most people will say that they hate RNG, - RNG as an undesirable feature does provide contrast to more desirable parts of the game.
Humans need to experience adversity, challenge and failure to appreciate success.
RNG provides that, its the bitter sauce that masses love to hate but ultimately makes them play longer as it makes winning more meaningful
(yes there are many ways to provide adversity and failure in games to make winning feel meaningful, but RNG is usually the easiest especially when it comes to monetization, but that is not what OP asked, the question was "why have it" not, what alternatives are there)
The OP asking why would you want paid loot boxes in a game, not whether rng in games is a good or bad mechanic.
Is there any reason you would want paid loot boxes if the game already has a fun rng gear progression system? And for example would you miss loot boxes if they were taken out of a game like Shadow of War (or some other similar game you have played).
You know what will happen if you removed RNG out of games - masses would get bored and quit.
The majority of loot boxes are brought by a small minority of players, as shown by studies and developer statements where a few whales make up the vast majority of the revenue.
So I doubt the masses would quit just because loot boxes are removed when it's not the masses that are buying loot boxes in the first place. It's not like the masses were quitting any faster before loot boxes were a thing, after all (feels like quite the opposite, really).
My question is, why do some forum posters talk about these topics from a companies perspective and not a consumer? Are you a shill? Are you blowing somebody with a C-title at these companies? What the hell type of gamer wants an RNG loot box in a game? The answer should be none.
Sure, they roll a big wheel barrow of money up to my house and it's "A-Ok with me"!
Maybe it's pretty cut and dried. There's always some group of gamers who rail against some game or something in a game. There's always some group of gamers who say if you buy this/play this then you support this.
I'd have to get a spreadsheet to in order to figure out what games I am allowed to buy.
Or, I can just spend my money wisely, buy what I think is fun and has good value, not fall into the traps that game companies create and stop playing/buying when it's not worth it.
It's like the whole "companies are greedy" mantra. These companies make money for investors. That's what they do. It's like complaining that water is wet.
Don't like it? Don't buy from them.
But you should also go through your portfolio (Like Iselin did!) and only invest in companies/funds that are socially conscious.
Will I go out and buy loot boxes? No, I see what they are about, I see they can be fun, I like my money a bit too much. Do I begrudge other adults for buying them? no. I'm not there to be their babysitter.
If all games eventually have loot boxes and make it that you really can't play without buying them, will still play games?
No. Well, that was easy.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As with DMKano, the core of the question is do we like RNG loot?
Lootboxes, as a pure mechanic, are just a convenient way to hand out RNG loot. Instead of looting a corpse and the RNG gods decide what loot is on the corpse, instead you are given a lootbox and the RNG calculation is moved from the corpse to the box.
It can actually be a convenient way to handle the code. You don't need to sort out RNG loot for every lootable thing in your game, you can just hand out lootboxes and contain the RNG code. It is also really convenient for games that don't really have loot in them, like Overwatch and Battlefront.
But do I like RNG loot?
Not really, but as with all things, implementation is key. My decision making process is basically this:
1) Does it contain loot that I desire? If no, then entire mechanic is pointless. If yes, move on. 2) Is the loot a guaranteed drop? If yes, its not RNG so I like it. If no, move on. 3) Does the loot have a "reasonable" drop chance (greater than 10%)? If yes then I can stomach the grind, if no, get angry.
Essentially, I like to be able to predict my progression. When the prediction starts to look too long, then I know I'm in for a long grind and that turns me off. So, lootboxes in Overwatch or BF2 would drive me mad as there is no way to predict or plan your progression / loot goals and no way to improve your odds. It therefore removes all sense of achievement or purpose and just leaves me frustrated.
Now with cash shop involvement! A direction of game business evolution that people are evidently starting to get sick of.
Yep people love to talk about how they hate it, I mean look how popular it is to hate on it now.
But they keep spending money on it, because hey maybe its their lucky day and it would be really sweet to hit that jackpot!
RNG is hated consciously but craved subconsciously - isnt the human psyche fascinating?
Also the fact that human brains are terrible at risk assesment when it comes to really grasping odds, hehe that doesnt help either. There is a ton of research showing how humans suck at this.
You know what will happen if you removed RNG out of games - masses would get bored and quit.
Mass loss of players.
Masses need something to hate on, if you remove the loot boxes, boredom will replace hatred.
This is a stupid post. Well done. The ideas you express belay a fundamental misunderstand (or lack of understanding) about why loot boxes are a problem, in financial, biopsychological and sociological terms. Reducing the issue to "people are complaining because they need something to complain about" is, frankly, quite ridiculous.
For example, there's a HUGE body of research that shows that playing online games results in significant neurological changes in the brain not unlike those seen in pathological gambling. The majority of those studies focused on immersive game systems that "dress up" as game content removed from their basic mechanisms of reinforcement and reward (ie, "it's not intentional because it's a quest"). Loot boxes drop that pretence. The only difference between loot boxes and, say, a rat undergoing electric stimulation of the reward system when it pushes a button is that you're not connected to your PC/console by a wire. In fact, loot boxes are far more insidious than that; Blizzard, for example, have an adaptive reward system that alters drop chances in order to ensure your reward system is stimulated just enough to reinforce the behaviour, but not enough that the effect depletes rapidly. In effect, it's built to make you as addicted as possible for as long as possible. Whilst that is happening, your capacity to respond to natural rewards is being eroded more and more. So not only are developers encouraging addiction, but they're encouraging dependence too.
That comparison with pathological gambling runs further. With gambling, you would think that the neurological effects are more pronounced because you can ACTUALLY lose and you can ACTUALLY win. What if I told you that more and more research is pointing to the effect of game systems being far more pronounced? If we generalise these findings out to loot boxes: you are effectively being encouraged to engage in a hyper-addictive behaviour, where your reward system is being overstimulated... but you aren't actually getting a real reward, you're getting a simulated reward.
As to the point about humans being terrible at calculating odds? That's true in a literal sense, but not really true in a practical sense because our fundamental behaviours don't work on the basis of odds. We react to conditioning.
As for the point about people quitting because there are no loot boxes: ORLY? So what did people do BEFORE there were loot boxes? Were there no gamers? That's just a ridiculous thing to say. The ONLY thing that would happen if there were no loot boxes is... the price of games would go up. I'd happily pay a few dollars more for my games, safe in the knowledge that developers aren't trying to purposefully destroy my capacity to function as a human being... or at least not so egregiously anyway.
There are things in life that when asked - nobody wants
Like ask anyone if they want pain, sadness, disapointment, death etc.... most people dont want these things as they label them as "undesirable".
However undesirable things are crucial for growth, also for providing meaning and contrast for positive and desirable parts of life. Without the lows, we wouldnt experience the highs either.
Now as far as OP "why do want loot boxes?"
Loot boxes are really "RNG to get loot", so lets just call them RNG as that is the core component, and while most people will say that they hate RNG, - RNG as an undesirable feature does provide contrast to more desirable parts of the game.
Humans need to experience adversity, challenge and failure to appreciate success.
RNG provides that, its the bitter sauce that masses love to hate but ultimately makes them play longer as it makes winning more meaningful
(yes there are many ways to provide adversity and failure in games to make winning feel meaningful, but RNG is usually the easiest especially when it comes to monetization, but that is not what OP asked, the question was "why have it" not, what alternatives are there)
The OP asking why would you want paid loot boxes in a game, not whether rng in games is a good or bad mechanic.
Is there any reason you would want paid loot boxes if the game already has a fun rng gear progression system?
Yes here is an example where paid loot boxes are something I want:
When Lootbox RNG is very high to get something that I need that would otherwise take many hours.
For example common RNG drop is X, rare drop is Y, and extremely rare drop is Z. When X would take me 4 hours of gameplay but lootbox coats $2, this is when I love to have this option as I value my time more.
Lootboxes for me are about saving time in exchange for money, and this makes sense for me as I usually have more money than time.
Would you prefer to just have the option to buy the item you want outright in that case?
Overwatch probably has the most consumer friendly loot boxes.
They are only cosmetic so they have no effect on gameplay at all. They are easy to get, by leveling and Arcade mode I can get several every day. Also, they made it so you won't get duplicates (if you don't have every item of that rarity).
The people that pay $100s every event to get every single new skin keeps the system in place that allows me to get what I want for free.
If they switched to a non-loot box system I would have to pay for the skins that I want.
So if they did switch to a non-loot box system, would paying your fair share (i.e. for the skins you want), for a game that you obviously get a lot of ongoing enjoyment out of, be such a bad thing?
Well .... yeah.
I currently enjoy all of the new content for free. Why would I want to go to a system that charges for new characters, new maps and new skins?
No one is ever happy to pay for something that they are used to getting for free.
But in the case of Overwatch !! You did pay for this game at one time, and since release what has Blizzard given it's players , a few new characthers. and ..well arcade mode. and a lootcrate at each level.
Yet . They sell TON's and TON's of these lootcrates because players are suckers , and these suckers also send a clear messege that this is what players wan't.
If a game is FTP ..I understand it. But look where the consumers have taken the market , It's simply annoying that the guys with big wallets dictates how my game shall look like.
I'm probably in the minority here but I enjoy Overwatch's lootboxes. It gives me a sense of progress and 'Oh cool, I just leveled. Let's see if I unlocked anything good' I still have quite a few skins that I would like but don't have. I have never purchased them and it doesn't affect my gameplay in a negative manner, yet gives me an additional reason to play and gain experience.
I like that there is still something I can work towards in the game. If I had been given the option to get all the skins I wanted immediately that would be gone. It would have shortened my enjoyment of the game considerably. I guess I enjoy it because the random element adds surprise and excitement, while giving the game added longevity.
I'm probably in the minority here but I enjoy Overwatch's lootboxes. It gives me a sense of progress and 'Oh cool, I just leveled. Let's see if I unlocked anything good' I still have quite a few skins that I would like but don't have. I have never purchased them and it doesn't affect my gameplay in a negative manner, yet gives me an additional reason to play and gain experience.
I like that there is still something I can work towards in the game. If I had been given the option to get all the skins I wanted immediately that would be gone. It would have shortened my enjoyment of the game considerably. I guess I enjoy it because the random element adds surprise and excitement, while giving the game added longevity.
As clarified earlier, the question was about cash shop lootboxes that couldn't be earned in game.
Not really, but as with all things, implementation is key. My decision making process is basically this:
1) Does it contain loot that I desire? If no, then entire mechanic is pointless. If yes, move on. 2) Is the loot a guaranteed drop? If yes, its not RNG so I like it. If no, move on. 3) Does the loot have a "reasonable" drop chance (greater than 10%)? If yes then I can stomach the grind, if no, get angry.
Essentially, I like to be able to predict my progression.
While I don't mind "grind" (as I don't see it as grind) I agree, RNG loot isn't really fun. I also want to predict my progress.
What could help is just being able to sell any rng loot. No bind on acquire or anything like that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Overwatch probably has the most consumer friendly loot boxes.
They are only cosmetic so they have no effect on gameplay at all. They are easy to get, by leveling and Arcade mode I can get several every day. Also, they made it so you won't get duplicates (if you don't have every item of that rarity).
The people that pay $100s every event to get every single new skin keeps the system in place that allows me to get what I want for free.
If they switched to a non-loot box system I would have to pay for the skins that I want.
This post basically sums up what's wrong with that system.
You pay - $0 Other guy - $100+
I think you mean thats what is basically right with the system.
And Blizzard isnt complaining either, Overwatch made more than $1 billion in its first year.
Perhaps other companies, like EA, should take a look at how Blizzard is handling this situation. Blizzard has made several changes to the loot boxes to make them more and more consumer friendly.
If you make loot boxes fair and unobtrusive then consumers will put away their pitchforks and torches and take out their wallets and credit cards.
This post basically sums up what's wrong with that system.
You pay - $0 Other guy - $100+
I think you mean thats what is basically right with the system.
And Blizzard isnt complaining either, Overwatch made more than $1 billion in its first year.
Perhaps other companies, like EA, should take a look at how Blizzard is handling this situation. Blizzard has made several changes to the loot boxes to make them more and more consumer friendly.
If you make loot boxes fair and unobtrusive then consumers will put away their pitchforks and torches and take out their wallets and credit cards.
Actually, you can both be right in that situation, because Overwatch doesn't follow the "You pay $0, the other guy pays $100+" system. It's a buy-to-play game where millions brought the game at full price and loot boxes can be earned in rather large quantities in-game so I imagine it's revenue ratio is significantly different from the "You pay $0, other guy pays $100" ratio that many F2P games have.
I don't mind having loot boxes in games, as long as they do not contain items that change the gameplay, and as long as you can open them without having to pay money. Overwatch did it the best IMO, you get as many loot boxes as you want as long as you keep leveling up and everything is entirely cosmetic. Once they start adding things into crates that effect gameplay I'm out. I like opening loot boxes occasionally just to see if I get anything cool. It isn't something necessary, but it is a nice bonus if you don't have to pay anything and it's just cosmetic.
Well you are correct when it comes to paid lootboxes, a spending minority is funding the games.
But I am talking about removing RNG from the game not just paid lootboxes.
People say they hate RNG in games, but its the mechanic that keeps it interesting for the masses
The topic creator clarified that this topic is in regard to paid purchased loot boxes. So earning RNG in-game, be it earned loot boxes or earned loot (which in the end, while also random, is a completely different can of worms from cash shop loot boxes as a business practice) is meant to be (and should be!) a separate matter from just tossing money at the screen for RNG.
I have never experienced a lootbox but what I have seen in video it would be an immersion killer for me. But i want to provide some insight as to why people might like them.
There was a game I used to play that involved a great deal of scavenging. I very much enjoyed this game. Scavenge a location, get materials, craft gear. That was the rotation. Each time I did a scavenge however I might or might not get something useful.
The only two differences between what I was doing and what we call 'lootboxes' is 1. it was presented to the player in a context of the game world that made sense and 2. it didnt involve real money.
That is it..that is the only real difference. Which is why I think trying to legislate lootboxes specifically is treading on dangerous ground even though I dont like them. I suppose I dont worry about lootboxes 'winning' or 'loosing' the fight because I dont play games that have them in the first place so its a non-starter.
For others, my suggestion is to look at indies. Stop falling for the fist pumping of your dick by adverts from these AAA titles and think more pragmatic about it
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well you are correct when it comes to paid lootboxes, a spending minority is funding the games.
But I am talking about removing RNG from the game not just paid lootboxes.
People say they hate RNG in games, but its the mechanic that keeps it interesting for the masses
The topic creator clarified that this topic is in regard to paid purchased loot boxes. So earning RNG in-game, be it earned loot boxes or earned loot (which in the end, while also random, is a completely different can of worms from cash shop loot boxes as a business practice) is meant to be (and should be!) a separate matter from just tossing money at the screen for RNG.
But its the same damn thing - its RNG as a core mechanic.
The only difference is spending time in game to get RNG
or
spending money to get RNG
so this is a time vs money discussion at core no?
I like to be given a choice of both.
AND....if its RNG using money for digital cosemetics then nobody has a problem, if its RNG using money for digital progression or advantage in a game then people want to legislate it.
My view is that instead of trying to legislate a bad game into a good game, just look at other options of what to play and stop fucking falling for the goddamn motherfucking hype for the love of god! (its been said 'its easier to scam someone then to explain to them that they are being scammed')
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well you are correct when it comes to paid lootboxes, a spending minority is funding the games.
But I am talking about removing RNG from the game not just paid lootboxes.
People say they hate RNG in games, but its the mechanic that keeps it interesting for the masses
The topic creator clarified that this topic is in regard to paid purchased loot boxes. So earning RNG in-game, be it earned loot boxes or earned loot (which in the end, while also random, is a completely different can of worms from cash shop loot boxes as a business practice) is meant to be (and should be!) a separate matter from just tossing money at the screen for RNG.
But its the same damn thing - its RNG as a core mechanic.
The only difference is spending time in game to get RNG
or
spending money to get RNG
so this is a time vs money discussion at core no?
I like to be given a choice of both.
I think the real moral problem is how expensive loot box is.
Imagine you are playing Wow and there is this rare flying mount with 0.0001% drop rate. People may try to get it but since it is so hard to get people just give up.
Now imagine this flying mount is put in a loot box with 1% drop rate and selling for 10$. Essentially it means they are trying to sell the mount for 1000$ on avg.
Even worse imagine games trying to sell powerful sword in loot box with 1% drop rate and 10$ each.
Comments
I personally enjoy progression systems based mainly on effort rather than rng; eg, I prefer token systems for gear rather than rng drops in dungeons. And if I'm going to pay money for "convenience", I would much rather know exactly what I am getting rather than taking a gamble on a loot box.
I think loot boxes could work in some games, if they fit in with the overall theme of the game. However, most games just seem to have shoehorned lootboxes in (eg, Shadow of War, BF2) and they just don't seem to mesh with the game from a gameplay perspective or add anything positive to the game itself.
Seriously, I think very few people want them in the game but when they are there more then a few can't help themselves and buy them anyways. Since some of them have a chanse to drop something really good many just can't help themselves.
If all you have to do is set some odds in your favor and then slap a loot box on the market so you can make money off of the few big whales willing to spend to get the item in them (whether those whales like it or not, and from my conversation with fellow whales and my own experience, it's almost always "not"), why should the company care whether or not people want loot boxes in their game?
And they know this, too. When Astros of Marvel Heroes' development team was called out on it, he told them it was because Marvel Heroes wasn't making enough money. Did he tell them it would make the game more fun? Did it ever come up that maybe, the game would make more money if they actually improved the game? NO. IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
The only "good" thing about loot boxes from ther customers' perspective is they might keep an online game afloat a bit longer because of the increased spending from whales (IE, those customers can leech off whales a bit more). In cases like those, though, the game probably deserved to die in the first place if it wasn't good enough to get money from people without resorting to such things (and there's a good chance the game will die anyways. Marvel Heroes fell under both categories)
So the type of loot boxes that the OP means. . no I don't. It was smart to turn the answer on its head that way to make the point clear. Even whales would likely prefer to chose the advantage they buy.
I liken them to lottery tickets. .. but real money and a virtual payout.. . . hey. . no more lot boxes for me. Imma get me some lottery tickets and buy lootboxes later with all my winnings! Incoming WHALE!
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Nari, I am sure you realise your play was being subsidised before they brought gambling in. No need for them for you to still enjoy playing the game.
Is there any reason you would want paid loot boxes if the game already has a fun rng gear progression system? And for example would you miss loot boxes if they were taken out of a game like Shadow of War (or some other similar game you have played).
So I doubt the masses would quit just because loot boxes are removed when it's not the masses that are buying loot boxes in the first place. It's not like the masses were quitting any faster before loot boxes were a thing, after all (feels like quite the opposite, really).
Maybe it's pretty cut and dried. There's always some group of gamers who rail against some game or something in a game. There's always some group of gamers who say if you buy this/play this then you support this.
I'd have to get a spreadsheet to in order to figure out what games I am allowed to buy.
Or, I can just spend my money wisely, buy what I think is fun and has good value, not fall into the traps that game companies create and stop playing/buying when it's not worth it.
It's like the whole "companies are greedy" mantra. These companies make money for investors. That's what they do. It's like complaining that water is wet.
Don't like it? Don't buy from them.
But you should also go through your portfolio (Like Iselin did!) and only invest in companies/funds that are socially conscious.
Will I go out and buy loot boxes? No, I see what they are about, I see they can be fun, I like my money a bit too much. Do I begrudge other adults for buying them? no. I'm not there to be their babysitter.
If all games eventually have loot boxes and make it that you really can't play without buying them, will still play games?
No. Well, that was easy.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Lootboxes, as a pure mechanic, are just a convenient way to hand out RNG loot. Instead of looting a corpse and the RNG gods decide what loot is on the corpse, instead you are given a lootbox and the RNG calculation is moved from the corpse to the box.
It can actually be a convenient way to handle the code. You don't need to sort out RNG loot for every lootable thing in your game, you can just hand out lootboxes and contain the RNG code. It is also really convenient for games that don't really have loot in them, like Overwatch and Battlefront.
But do I like RNG loot?
Not really, but as with all things, implementation is key. My decision making process is basically this:
1) Does it contain loot that I desire? If no, then entire mechanic is pointless. If yes, move on.
2) Is the loot a guaranteed drop? If yes, its not RNG so I like it. If no, move on.
3) Does the loot have a "reasonable" drop chance (greater than 10%)? If yes then I can stomach the grind, if no, get angry.
Essentially, I like to be able to predict my progression. When the prediction starts to look too long, then I know I'm in for a long grind and that turns me off. So, lootboxes in Overwatch or BF2 would drive me mad as there is no way to predict or plan your progression / loot goals and no way to improve your odds. It therefore removes all sense of achievement or purpose and just leaves me frustrated.
For example, there's a HUGE body of research that shows that playing online games results in significant neurological changes in the brain not unlike those seen in pathological gambling. The majority of those studies focused on immersive game systems that "dress up" as game content removed from their basic mechanisms of reinforcement and reward (ie, "it's not intentional because it's a quest"). Loot boxes drop that pretence. The only difference between loot boxes and, say, a rat undergoing electric stimulation of the reward system when it pushes a button is that you're not connected to your PC/console by a wire. In fact, loot boxes are far more insidious than that; Blizzard, for example, have an adaptive reward system that alters drop chances in order to ensure your reward system is stimulated just enough to reinforce the behaviour, but not enough that the effect depletes rapidly. In effect, it's built to make you as addicted as possible for as long as possible. Whilst that is happening, your capacity to respond to natural rewards is being eroded more and more. So not only are developers encouraging addiction, but they're encouraging dependence too.
That comparison with pathological gambling runs further. With gambling, you would think that the neurological effects are more pronounced because you can ACTUALLY lose and you can ACTUALLY win. What if I told you that more and more research is pointing to the effect of game systems being far more pronounced? If we generalise these findings out to loot boxes: you are effectively being encouraged to engage in a hyper-addictive behaviour, where your reward system is being overstimulated... but you aren't actually getting a real reward, you're getting a simulated reward.
As to the point about humans being terrible at calculating odds? That's true in a literal sense, but not really true in a practical sense because our fundamental behaviours don't work on the basis of odds. We react to conditioning.
As for the point about people quitting because there are no loot boxes: ORLY? So what did people do BEFORE there were loot boxes? Were there no gamers? That's just a ridiculous thing to say. The ONLY thing that would happen if there were no loot boxes is... the price of games would go up. I'd happily pay a few dollars more for my games, safe in the knowledge that developers aren't trying to purposefully destroy my capacity to function as a human being... or at least not so egregiously anyway.
But in the case of Overwatch !! You did pay for this game at one time, and since release what has Blizzard given it's players , a few new characthers. and ..well arcade mode. and a lootcrate at each level.
Yet . They sell TON's and TON's of these lootcrates because players are suckers , and these suckers also send a clear messege that this is what players wan't.
If a game is FTP ..I understand it. But look where the consumers have taken the market , It's simply annoying that the guys with big wallets dictates how my game shall look like.
I like that there is still something I can work towards in the game. If I had been given the option to get all the skins I wanted immediately that would be gone. It would have shortened my enjoyment of the game considerably. I guess I enjoy it because the random element adds surprise and excitement, while giving the game added longevity.
What could help is just being able to sell any rng loot. No bind on acquire or anything like that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And Blizzard isnt complaining either, Overwatch made more than $1 billion in its first year.
Perhaps other companies, like EA, should take a look at how Blizzard is handling this situation. Blizzard has made several changes to the loot boxes to make them more and more consumer friendly.
If you make loot boxes fair and unobtrusive then consumers will put away their pitchforks and torches and take out their wallets and credit cards.
There was a game I used to play that involved a great deal of scavenging. I very much enjoyed this game. Scavenge a location, get materials, craft gear. That was the rotation. Each time I did a scavenge however I might or might not get something useful.
The only two differences between what I was doing and what we call 'lootboxes' is 1. it was presented to the player in a context of the game world that made sense and 2. it didnt involve real money.
That is it..that is the only real difference. Which is why I think trying to legislate lootboxes specifically is treading on dangerous ground even though I dont like them. I suppose I dont worry about lootboxes 'winning' or 'loosing' the fight because I dont play games that have them in the first place so its a non-starter.
For others, my suggestion is to look at indies. Stop falling for the fist pumping of your dick by adverts from these AAA titles and think more pragmatic about it
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My view is that instead of trying to legislate a bad game into a good game, just look at other options of what to play and stop fucking falling for the goddamn motherfucking hype for the love of god! (its been said 'its easier to scam someone then to explain to them that they are being scammed')
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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Imagine you are playing Wow and there is this rare flying mount with 0.0001% drop rate. People may try to get it but since it is so hard to get people just give up.
Now imagine this flying mount is put in a loot box with 1% drop rate and selling for 10$. Essentially it means they are trying to sell the mount for 1000$ on avg.
Even worse imagine games trying to sell powerful sword in loot box with 1% drop rate and 10$ each.