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Is quest driven that bad ?
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
In a recent topic, it turned into a discussion about how many hate quest driven. It isn't new, it's been discussed negatively before.
Well, what's the alternative ?..... Dynamic?.... That's not a bad idea, but what's wrong with both ?.... What everyone seems to ignore is that "Easy" is the real problem !!!!
I'll give an example:
Fairbreeze Village rat problem
Go kill ten rats and Stinky the head rat. The cave to the east is infested with rats and we think Stinky is responsible for the raids on our village. Let everyone know when the deed is done.
0/10 Rats
0/1 Stinky
Alternative #1
The rat's are in a single room cave next to Fairbreeze. All ten rats including Stinky can be taken out with a single blow and the quest is ready for turn in.
Alternative #2
Go east beyond the rotted catacombs, face south and you'll see a large rock that stands out. Behind the rock is a barely noticeable hole covered by a bush.... Jump in.... Be careful theirs a big ass Troll that some times guards the entrance for some odd reason.
Inside you'll see a poison pit, hug the left side wall, not the right because the right is a trap. Follow the path to the rats nest. DO NOT KILL STINKY yet !!... because the rats will be become enraged. Simply pull the rants one at a time, then go for Stinky but don't stand in front because of his bad breath and he should be easy. This quest would be much easer if you bring a caster, just a suggestion.
Turn in:
Stand in the courtyard, and shout "the rats are gone". Press the icon in the top right corner to shout the message. You'll gain exp. and everyone will be nicer to you, this will open a lot more quest.
Reading Alternative #2...... What's wrong with quest ?...... What have mmos become ?
Well, what's the alternative ?..... Dynamic?.... That's not a bad idea, but what's wrong with both ?.... What everyone seems to ignore is that "Easy" is the real problem !!!!
I'll give an example:
Fairbreeze Village rat problem
Go kill ten rats and Stinky the head rat. The cave to the east is infested with rats and we think Stinky is responsible for the raids on our village. Let everyone know when the deed is done.
0/10 Rats
0/1 Stinky
Alternative #1
The rat's are in a single room cave next to Fairbreeze. All ten rats including Stinky can be taken out with a single blow and the quest is ready for turn in.
Alternative #2
Go east beyond the rotted catacombs, face south and you'll see a large rock that stands out. Behind the rock is a barely noticeable hole covered by a bush.... Jump in.... Be careful theirs a big ass Troll that some times guards the entrance for some odd reason.
Inside you'll see a poison pit, hug the left side wall, not the right because the right is a trap. Follow the path to the rats nest. DO NOT KILL STINKY yet !!... because the rats will be become enraged. Simply pull the rants one at a time, then go for Stinky but don't stand in front because of his bad breath and he should be easy. This quest would be much easer if you bring a caster, just a suggestion.
Turn in:
Stand in the courtyard, and shout "the rats are gone". Press the icon in the top right corner to shout the message. You'll gain exp. and everyone will be nicer to you, this will open a lot more quest.
Reading Alternative #2...... What's wrong with quest ?...... What have mmos become ?
Post edited by delete5230 on
Comments
This is not a chain quest, it's easer to bring along a friend.
Have fun
That will cause population distribution and related problems....
I adore story telling in RPG's. I can't play one with out them if the core content is driven by combat. I've never been a fan of Themeparks without good questing as the PvE combat whilst leveling is so un-stimulating, I get bored easily.
I can do without quests in games like SWG where there were a variety of different things you could do outside of combat to level your character. Tame the wildlife, turn them into mounts. Become a dancer or a doctor and buff players. Even become a mayor of your own player built town.
Yes, I agree !
Forced chain quest suck..... The nice thing about this quest, bring along a caster friend and it would be easer and fun. After all, getting beyond the catacombs is not easy by yourself.
MMO
You done the quest , your friend show up and "hey , let do that quest" !
sorry ... you done it so you are out lol . **** !
You need 10 horns for the quest , your friend show up ... tada , now you need 20 horn , **** !
Middle of quest , someone join in , most done and out ... the one not done yet , **** !
You do the quests that your friends not unlock yet ... solo it **** !
nice punishment . Now you know why it bad ?
You have a point BUT.
If the quest were hard, fun and somewhat cooperative, what's the harm in doing it again...... As appose to simply gather 10 horns. A game can always have dynamic or repeatable also.... You don't have to rule other stuff out !
Have an idea, insert it here < >
Quests are perfectly fine,it is the way in which they are implemented and the reward that is NOT fine.
First of all the markers usually tossed over npc heads is immersion breaking and just stupid,thank god i had FFXI to play ,NO HAND HOLDING.
Ok the reasons quests are done badly.
They offer xp that is rewarded towards your SKILL as that class,yet they have absolutely NOTHING to do with your skills.If they did then they would be acceptable.
The games that utilize quests for xp usually offer too little or nothing at all from kills,that is again retarded as combat is predominantly your SKILLS being used.Yet again thank god for FFXI,they understood it and got it right.
Quests in games tend to have no plausible realism,you can tell they are computer code,generated by a game designer for the sole purpose to give xp,instead of appearing to be realistic features inside a game world.Example was some game i tried for about 3 minutes recently,i got xp by simply moving from npc 1 to npc 2,good job DELETE.
We SHOULD be interacting with our world,that means actually talking to npc's,instead quests are given markers over npc heads,so that in factual reality,you are clicking the marker and have no care for the npc at all.
bottom line is brutally BAD game designers,they have no clue what they are designing and no ability to sit back,look at their design and ask the question "does this look right?",so yeah dumb ass system designers,maybe too much pokemon Go idk.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Some of the Hallmark quest lines are good too, and they help you navigate the game.
I think quests should be completely optional and give no rewards.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
PoE > MMO instanced pve
Currently i'm into LoL and Path of Exile, both of them are better than playing either instanced battleground in a themepark MMO or intanced dungeons in themepark MMOs.
In a game like TSW it is not a problem since it lacks the tons of fast quests you forget the moment they are done.
I don't think there is any good quests about killling rats at all. The least painful way of solving you village thing would probably be something like GW2s hearts: Kill rats & help the villagers with their minor tasks. It would still be boring but at least less so.
Medieval Romance. an adventurous expedition undertaken by a knight or knights to secure or achieve something:
That is basically what a MMO quest should be, not every minor task you do all the time. If it isn't heroic you either shouldn't bother at all with it or call such things "tasks" and just reward money and minor items for it.
A good questsbased MMO need fewer quests. Make them longer, better written, harder and actually fun instead of a boring timesink. Mix in some dynamic events and script the rest of the world to handle itself unless the players interact with it. Orcs go out on hunting parties, peasants farm their fields and so on making the world feel more alive.
I think most of us have some favorite quests we played but almost all of us also forget most quests as soon as they are done. Keep the memorable ones and get rid of the bad ones, it is just that simple.
Quests is basically the game telling you what to do and that is fine but not all the time.
Also, most quests have a single way to complete them, having some with multiple solutions would be nice. AoC had a good one where the player needed to figure out who of 3 suspects stole a jewelry box, it could be solved by wits or by using intimidation in the right way depending on your character.
It's a singleplayer rpg mechanic that was hamfisted into MMO's for easy content.
Warhammers public quests and GW2s dynamic events were steps in the right direction but sadly it seems that design didn't pick up much steam.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
developers just seem to want to throw relay race busy work at us.
This is not to say busy work can't be fun. But not for a "quest".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But new players in the mmo scene love it and I also love it to run it with them.
Quests should be limited to the "Introductory" part of the game, e.g., EverQuest II's Isle of Refuge and Age of Conan's Tortage. After I leave the starting zone, I prefer to make my own mark in the game's world.
Quests wouldn't be needed if the game had amazing combat, a very interesting loot system (Diablo 2's randomized statistics), and loads and loads of social content, e.g., incentives to use taverns and INNs, social professions, deep crafting, player cities, and world housing.
The negative impact of quests:
#1. Quest-Hub to Quest-Hub limits the world size. As you progress past each hub (map, world, zone), you will never adventure in those lands again.
#2. Quest-Hub to Quest-Hub progression is simply boring. Most people don't even bother to read the quests.
#3. Quest-Hub to Quest-Hub progression destroys immersion, e.g., I'm the "chosen one", along with the other 1 million players, that must save the world etc.
#4. The time and money developers waste on these gigantic quest lines. I'd rather that time / money be spent on insane combat / reusable content.
That is the main reason so many MMOs have such large quantity of crap quests. Guild wars prophecies for instance had all it's quests written by 3 guys who also did other work as well.
Also, most quests need a minimal amount of play testing. Improving combat on the other hand is both expensive and takes a long time to playtest.
The reason there is thousands of quests in most MMOs is that they are cheap and easy to make. Repeatable content like Dynamic events takes way longer and more playtesting to make.
They will tire pretty fast as well since the games overuse them so much. You might like Mac & cheese but you won't for long if that is the only thing you eat.
Besides, there seems to be fewer new players now then anytime else during the 20 years I been playing MMOs, it is time to make some content both new and old players enjoy.
For quests to be interesting there has to be variation in quests and players should be forced to think for themselves and explore the world instead of just following quest markers.