Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Wars Battlefront II AMA Happening Today - 'This is Fine' - MMORPG.com News

12346

Comments

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    IselinConstantineMerusimmodium

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Such a simple concept, and yet... :)

    The fiction that you always "win" with loot boxes is apparently a much more powerful message than I ever thought.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:


    Again, though, now we need to, what? Regulate how much alcohol someone is allowed to drink or purchase? How many cigarettes they can have? How many guns or bullets they can own? 

    Again, we have to ask whether we're solving a problem or inventing a problem that we've decided needs to be resolved. You could be spending tens of millions of dollars to solve the problem of 2 people. There is no evidence that this is a problem at all. 

    Also, again, is this a priority? If we're talking about predatory business practices, I would tend to focus on efforts on the pharmaceutical industry where Americans are paying much higher prices (like up to 10 times or more higher) than most other places in the world for drugs that they need to keep themselves alive. THAT is a pandemic issue, if we're talking about things that are real issues. Oh! And the explanation given for the increased prices is, generally, regulation. So, yeah, let's solve this problem with regulation.... please! 
    A couple things:

    As I've said before, the idea that a government can't focus on multiple things is completely illogical.  They can and do have different task forces and committees for that very reason. Drop the "is this the focus we want?" red herring.

    We already regulate how much alcohol someone is allowed to purchase and drink.  Bartenders can and have been punished for serving someone who is clearly too intoxicated for their own good (generally it's something owners take care of internally to avoid bad press/liability).  They have a responsibility to cut someone off who's getting too drunk for the public space.

    There's a metric shit ton of data that supports the idea that we should limit the ability of citizens to purchase and keep firearms, specifically semi-automatic rifles.  Mentioning that is points on the board for the side you're arguing against, much like the alcohol comment.

    Finally, your comment about prices being hiked because of regulations will need a lot more support before it becomes a legitimate one.

    Sure, a bartender can limit how much alcohol I can buy, but I could buy 10 cases of beer without issue. So as long as I'm getting drunk at home before I drive, it's all good. What I'm saying is there isn't a registry that monitors how much alcohol I buy and restricts my ability to purchase more for a set amount of time. It doesn't regulate. 

    I take back my comment on focusing on what's important. You're totally right, and it's been proven by the governments decision to remove the law which prevented the import of elephant heads into the US. Congrats America! *slow clap*
    Depending on how you pay for that beer, you are being monitored and your personal information and spending habits are being sold off for profit.

    Unless of course its *regulated*

    Lol, suuuure!!! My personal information is being "sold". Like that's going to happen in such a tightly regulated industry. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    In casinos you are betting money, to win money. Lootbox logic is the minimum product you are getting justifies the price tag, anything else you get, is just free bonus. 

    I know that sucks as well. To be honest I prefer casinos--that's how I paid for my school and my first business--but your example doesn't apply here mate. That's why we (by we I mean you guys, I don't need any laws, anarchy till death do us apart!) need new laws for publishers and in-game lootboxes. 

    What is clear if some random game had pulled this crap no one would've cared. They are taking advantage of a popular IP with a huge fanbase.  
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    What about these?



    Can the manufacturer "drop support" and demand you give the items back/revoke your child's access to the product?
    Gdemami

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:


    Again, though, now we need to, what? Regulate how much alcohol someone is allowed to drink or purchase? How many cigarettes they can have? How many guns or bullets they can own? 

    Again, we have to ask whether we're solving a problem or inventing a problem that we've decided needs to be resolved. You could be spending tens of millions of dollars to solve the problem of 2 people. There is no evidence that this is a problem at all. 

    Also, again, is this a priority? If we're talking about predatory business practices, I would tend to focus on efforts on the pharmaceutical industry where Americans are paying much higher prices (like up to 10 times or more higher) than most other places in the world for drugs that they need to keep themselves alive. THAT is a pandemic issue, if we're talking about things that are real issues. Oh! And the explanation given for the increased prices is, generally, regulation. So, yeah, let's solve this problem with regulation.... please! 
    A couple things:

    As I've said before, the idea that a government can't focus on multiple things is completely illogical.  They can and do have different task forces and committees for that very reason. Drop the "is this the focus we want?" red herring.

    We already regulate how much alcohol someone is allowed to purchase and drink.  Bartenders can and have been punished for serving someone who is clearly too intoxicated for their own good (generally it's something owners take care of internally to avoid bad press/liability).  They have a responsibility to cut someone off who's getting too drunk for the public space.

    There's a metric shit ton of data that supports the idea that we should limit the ability of citizens to purchase and keep firearms, specifically semi-automatic rifles.  Mentioning that is points on the board for the side you're arguing against, much like the alcohol comment.

    Finally, your comment about prices being hiked because of regulations will need a lot more support before it becomes a legitimate one.

    Sure, a bartender can limit how much alcohol I can buy, but I could buy 10 cases of beer without issue. So as long as I'm getting drunk at home before I drive, it's all good. What I'm saying is there isn't a registry that monitors how much alcohol I buy and restricts my ability to purchase more for a set amount of time. It doesn't regulate. 

    I take back my comment on focusing on what's important. You're totally right, and it's been proven by the governments decision to remove the law which prevented the import of elephant heads into the US. Congrats America! *slow clap*
    Depending on how you pay for that beer, you are being monitored and your personal information and spending habits are being sold off for profit.

    Unless of course its *regulated*

    Lol, suuuure!!! My personal information is being "sold". Like that's going to happen in such a tightly regulated industry. 
    Well duh it's regulated. (so much for the free market)


    Point cards though.... not so much

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    In casinos you are betting money, to win money. Lootbox logic is the minimum product you are getting justifies the price tag, anything else you get, is just free bonus. 

    I know that sucks as well. To be honest I prefer casinos--that's how I paid for my school and my first business--but your example doesn't apply here mate. That's why we (by we I mean you guys, I don't need any laws, anarchy till death do us apart!) need new laws for publishers and in-game lootboxes. 

    What is clear if some random game had pulled this crap no one would've cared. They are taking advantage of a popular IP with a huge fanbase.  
    Not in my casino (cough) I mean gumball store.
    ConstantineMerusMadFrenchie

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    In casinos you are betting money, to win money. Lootbox logic is the minimum product you are getting justifies the price tag, anything else you get, is just free bonus. 

    I know that sucks as well. To be honest I prefer casinos--that's how I paid for my school and my first business--but your example doesn't apply here mate. That's why we (by we I mean you guys, I don't need any laws, anarchy till death do us apart!) need new laws for publishers and in-game lootboxes. 

    What is clear if some random game had pulled this crap no one would've cared. They are taking advantage of a popular IP with a huge fanbase.  
    Not in my casino (cough) I mean gumball store.

    Speaking of gumballs.... for any of those who remember video rental stores, what about those gumball machines that have the couple foil-wrapped free rental gumballs in them? Thank goodness we don't need to worry about video stores anymore. 
    laseritConstantineMerus

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    In casinos you are betting money, to win money. Lootbox logic is the minimum product you are getting justifies the price tag, anything else you get, is just free bonus. 

    I know that sucks as well. To be honest I prefer casinos--that's how I paid for my school and my first business--but your example doesn't apply here mate. That's why we (by we I mean you guys, I don't need any laws, anarchy till death do us apart!) need new laws for publishers and in-game lootboxes. 

    What is clear if some random game had pulled this crap no one would've cared. They are taking advantage of a popular IP with a huge fanbase.  
    Not in my casino (cough) I mean gumball store.

    Speaking of gumballs.... for any of those who remember video rental stores, what about those gumball machines that have the couple foil-wrapped free rental gumballs in them? Thank goodness we don't need to worry about video stores anymore. 
    Yes they've gone the way of the dodo. Too bad it's more expensive to watch a pay per view movie than it was to rent one from a brick and mortar.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 555
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:
    And all that without even acknowledging the elephant in the room that makes digital lootbox much, much worse than any physical trading card game:

    If Magic stops making cards, you still have the cards in your possession.  In fact, those cards are likely to objectively increase in value.

    If EA shutters BF2, they can literally reduce the value of the items won to abso-fucking-lutely nothing, to the point of legally and actively preventing you from enjoying any value out of them.  Just as the lootbox winnings in Overwatch, and just as the lootbox winnings in any other online game.  Wizards of the Coast can't force you to send them their cards back.
    That's not unique to lootboxes. Look at the amount of MMO's people own that they can't play due to being shutdown.

    You can argue that many games with purchasable loot boxes are prolonging the life of the product they've purchased.
    It's not, but it's a key difference that makes the comparison to physical trading cards inaccurate and misleading.
    But labeling loot boxes gambling is also inaccurate and misleading.

    Gambling implies you can lose, you never lose with loot boxes. Whether you got what you wanted from it is irrelevant. You get something of cash value regardless.

    If it is classed as gambling it's the best form of gambling as you always win.
    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    In casinos you are betting money, to win money. Lootbox logic is the minimum product you are getting justifies the price tag, anything else you get, is just free bonus. 

    I know that sucks as well. To be honest I prefer casinos--that's how I paid for my school and my first business--but your example doesn't apply here mate. That's why we (by we I mean you guys, I don't need any laws, anarchy till death do us apart!) need new laws for publishers and in-game lootboxes. 

    What is clear if some random game had pulled this crap no one would've cared. They are taking advantage of a popular IP with a huge fanbase.  
    Not in my casino (cough) I mean gumball store.

    Speaking of gumballs.... for any of those who remember video rental stores, what about those gumball machines that have the couple foil-wrapped free rental gumballs in them? Thank goodness we don't need to worry about video stores anymore. 
    I think a better example would be those book or music clubs that sometimes sent club members trial items without giving enough of a return window to keep them from having to pay for it. They knew that many people would just apathetically accept it and go ahead and pay.

    That's how the BF2 loot box and progression system felt to me. They made the game just tedious enough that many people would decide to heck with grinding and reach instead for their credit card. While that might be good for company profits it doesn't make for an entertaining gaming experience.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    edited November 2017

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    immodium

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    I was always very good and extremely lucky when it came down to gambling. Once we played poker with Tarot cards, I got a full house and 4 other players died. 
    [Deleted User]
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    I was always very good and extremely lucky when it came down to gambling. Once we played poker with Tarot cards, I got a full house and 4 other players died. 
    The good ones are the ones who know when to quit :)
    ConstantineMerus

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    [Deleted User]

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    Do you believe F2P mobile games to be predatory?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    Do you believe F2P mobile games to be predatory?
    The only experience I have with F2P are MMO's that changed from sub. So can't really answer.

    I'm one of those people that can't stand mobile phones, I own one of these:



    £12($15) Brand new :D
    laseritpantaro

    image
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    Did the AMA already happen? I'm not finding it under https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/

    --------------------------------------------
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    Do you believe F2P mobile games to be predatory?
    I consider any profit based business transaction predatory to some extent.
    So if you go to a service station with a flat tire and the guy says $20 to fix it. That's predatory to some extent?
    Iselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Did the AMA already happen? I'm not finding it under https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/

    Yes it happened. You can find all the answered question links here:   https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7d4qft/star_wars_battlefront_ii_dice_developer_ama/?sort=qa

    Wellspring
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    Do you believe F2P mobile games to be predatory?
    I consider any profit based business transaction predatory to some extent.
    So if you go to a service station with a flat tire and the guy says $20 to fix it. That's predatory to some extent?
    I'd haggle to try and get a better deal. I don't believe any salesmen is trying to give me the best deal. They're trying to get the most out of me.

    TBH I can change a flat myself. If I couldn't he's got me by the balls so can charge whatever.

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    In games, any time a game uses terminology or mechanics designed to intentionally mislead, that is predatory. Just using the term "free to play" itself in games that are anything but is an example, although it's one we have collectively learned to shrug off since we know that there's typically a huge difference between the game you get for free and the one you have to pay for. This would apply to a game like ESO where the "optional" sub makes the horrendous inventory management system a bit more bearable if you sub.

    Claiming to give you a free path to progression along side a paid path and making the free path tortuous is another common predatory practice.

    BF2 takes it a step further by showing you every time you die in PVP the cards (which are gotten through loot boxes) that the person that killed you was using. That's another example.


    Selling you a game for $100 that contains the complete game is not predatory, just expensive. Same for a must sub MMO.
    immodium
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Iselin said:
    immodium said:
    laserit said:
    immodium said:

    laserit said:

    So...

    If the casino gives me a gumball after I lose my bet at the blackjack table it's not gambling.

    I think I'm going to open up another business.
    Why not just open up a fair ground. Children gamble there all the time.
    Thats where I learned my first lesson about gambling. Worked all weekend cleaning up the machines my father's machine shop in 1972 when I was 8 and I made $5 . Went up to the carnival at the local plaza and lost that five bucks in about 5 minutes trying to win a five dollar bill at the midway. Didn't even get to go on a single ride, I wanted to cry ;)

    For me, it was a good life lesson.
    Must admit I was the same. Loved going to fairs, infinitely more fun than lootboxes. :)

    I just don't get the predatory argument that surrounds these discussions, and the "think of the children." slogan that gets banded with it.

    Take Shadow of War for example. A game released by Warner. Even before we mention loot boxes/microtransactions this is a game rated by the ESRB as 17+ (Just like the first game in the series which contained no microtransactions)

    So it's a game not aimed at children.

    Warner also produce the Lego games (LEGO Batman, Star Wars etc.) Games with an ESRB of 10+, everyone.

    If the company was so predatory why haven't they included lootboxes in those games? (I'm under the impression they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong - Also if they are why isn't anybody voicing concern?).
    In games, any time a game uses terminology or mechanics designed to intentionally mislead, that is predatory. Just using the term "free to play" itself in games that are anything but is an example, although it's one we have collectively learned to shrug off since we know that there's typically a huge difference between the game you get for free and the one you have to pay for. This would apply to a game like ESO where the "optional" sub makes the horrendous inventory management system a bit more bearable if you sub.

    Claiming to give you a free path to progression along side a paid path and making the free path tortuous is another common predatory practice.

    BF2 takes it a step further by showing you every time you die in PVP the cards (which are gotten through loot boxes) that the person that killed you was using. That's another example.


    Selling you a game for $100 that contains the complete game is not predatory, just expensive. Same for a must sub MMO.
    but it is free to play

    not saying 'free to play but not every single aspect of the game is free to play'

    is a bit retarded

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Iselin said:

    Claiming to give you a free path to progression along side a paid path and making the free path tortuous is another common predatory practice.

    TBH I don't find that anymore predatory than what Everquest did. Purposefully prolonging ones time in game to just make money from you via a sub.
    [Deleted User]

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    immodium said:
    Iselin said:

    Claiming to give you a free path to progression along side a paid path and making the free path tortuous is another common predatory practice.

    TBH I don't find that anymore predatory than what Everquest did. Purposefully prolonging ones time in game to just make money from you via a sub.
    Yeah I've heard that perspective before but I don't subscribe to it (pun intended) because I leave games once they bore me and both "end game" and hanging around till they feed me more PVE content bore me.

    If I play a game for a long time it's because there's something there that I find worth playing. And even then, I come and go, sub or not, depending on how much fun or not I'm having.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

Sign In or Register to comment.