The entire world will be level scaled, though not all zones to 110. Each zone will have a minimum-maximum level caps. Flexible Expansion order is being introduced that applies to dungeons and rewards as well. This will begin with patch 7.3.5."
Well this I dont like and its going to be implemented even without the expansion so I'm on the fence about playing at all now. What? Walk outside Stormwind/Orgrimmar and everything 110? I'm not feeling it.
Based on everything we know, it feels like they didn't really learn anything from Legion. Like "If we keep giving them the same thing, they'll learn to like it." I'm curious on your take on all of this so far Suzie
I don't think you've actually read the post properly, because that's clearly not how they're going to work the scaling. Right now, zones work by assigning level ranges that progresses as you move through the zone. What Blizz are likely going to be doing is (a) tweaking these level ranges slightly, and (b) making the content in those zones scale within those level ranges. So a zone that right now, start to finish, is for 20-30 may still be for 20-30, but as you level up... the scaling levels everything up with you to a cap of 30. Why is this a big deal? Well, ask players with full heirlooms that run world content.
So no, you won't be wondering around at 110 seeing 110 mobs outside Stormwind or Ogrimmar. You'll be wondering around at 110 seeing mobs at the top end of the scaling for those zones, so... in these cases? Maybe somewhere in the 20-30 range.
Filler expansion - at least until a big bad comes to break up the war.
That's the entire point; we've been moving towards fighting the same big bad for 3 expansions, and now we've defeated them. We KNOW there's another big bad coming, and this expansion will almost certainly be used to heavily foreshadow them and build up the lore around them.
We know that the next big bad is the Void and the Void Lords, and their Old God harbingers, and we know that both Kul Tiras and the Zandalari have been impacted in one way or another by N'Zoth (the last remaining Old God that hasn't been pwned into the ground). Queen Azshara and the Naga, for example, came under the corruption of N'Zoth. Thing is though: N'Zoth (just like C'Thun and Yogg-Saron) is a harbinger, and not the main threat, in the same way Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde were simply servants of Sargeras.
This expansion is clearly designed to create a situation where the Alliance and the Horde have engaged in a costly war that has left both sides in tatters, to undo the "power creep" that has happened over the last few expansions, where both factions have grown in strength enough to not only rival but outright defeat the greatest force in all of the cosmos ( The Burning Legion ), to leave them broken and beaten, with little strength and little hope for the future. I imagine whatever "peace" comes out of the Battle for Azeroth will be a bitter-sweet affair, a matter of necessity. However, it will be different to the past, where peace has been sought in order to defeat a greater threat. The peace this time around will simply be because they have beaten each other to a bloody pulp, and short of wiping each other out there is no other option. It will be in ignorance of the greater threat. It will be entirely self-inflicted, where in the past such destruction has always been at the hands of the greater threat. All the while, the loose threads will emerge that point more explicitly to the Void Lords, and by the end of the expansion, we'll almost certainly be facing a Void expansion into which we enter from a position of near absolute weakness.
Today i see a mega load of Blizzard spam,it is like the rest of the gaming world never existed,all Blizzard threads. This is really boring to see this constantly,Destiny 2 has been beyond boring,i want to see a VARIETY,a QUALITY if variety gaming not just Blizzard threads all over,it looks like my spam folder.
All we ever see from you is negative complaining post. Today is no different. It's beyond boring we want to see VARITY a QUALITY post from you not just complaining negative post. This post just looks like everything in your history folder.
Some grumpy old men sit on their porches with shotguns and tell kids to get off their lawns. He's the internet / MMO player version of that. As with the IRL equivalent, it's best to just let him be and go play elsewhere.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
If there is not the option to do old group content solo then I am done with WoW. Level scaling blows.
Level scaling is capped, for example dungeons in Outland will scale between 60 and 80. So if you are 110 you will still be able to solo dungeons. The scaling just allows you to do expansions (namely BC or WotLK) in any order you want.
So for example you can start in Outland, then if you decide you can go directly to WotLK and continue leveling there, go back to Outland, etc. Leveling is no longer linear.
I hear Cata is 80-90? So I dont understand how the choice works after Cata through Legion.
I like everything about it except the level scaling myself. Sometimes I just want to go back to the older content and get those achievements I missed by myself because getting a group together to do them can be a pain. This pretty much kills being able to do that. I actually save trying to do somethings because I know in the future I will be able to come back and complete it without pulling my hair out or having that one person screw it up for everyone. I will most likely hop back in when they drop the next xpac, I still go back every once in a while anyway to keep from burning out on other games.
It doesnt kill it completely. Level scaling is capped so for example if you go to the vanilla zones the scaling stops at level 60. Outland AND WotLK scale from 60 to 80. So if you are max level you can do older content and be overpowered.
"no matter who shot first" ...errm... the allies did? ofc?
we didn't held their leader captive for years.
we didn't enslave a whole population.
it wasn't us who easily followed a SI:7 led by the legion to nearly go to full war
we are the good guys, the alliance the badies, always been!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I like everything about it except the level scaling myself. Sometimes I just want to go back to the older content and get those achievements I missed by myself because getting a group together to do them can be a pain. This pretty much kills being able to do that. I actually save trying to do somethings because I know in the future I will be able to come back and complete it without pulling my hair out or having that one person screw it up for everyone. I will most likely hop back in when they drop the next xpac, I still go back every once in a while anyway to keep from burning out on other games.
It doesnt kill it completely. Level scaling is capped so for example if you go to the vanilla zones the scaling stops at level 60. Outland AND WotLK scale from 60 to 80. So if you are max level you can do older content and be overpowered.
Go run MC as a level 60 solo and tell me you can do it. I tend to go do rep runs in older content just to get the rep to max level. That is the point yes you may be a little stronger than you would have been a that level but if it is making you a level 60 then it is pretty much ending doing that type of run.
@Iselin, @Coolit Wasn't GW2 first to introduce level scaling or my memory is playing tricks on me. Pretty sure GW2 was first.
They did something quite different - they only down-scaled after you leveled past a zone's cap. ESO scales low level players up to the one level that all the zones are. WOW is doing is something that seems similar but less radical than ESO's system.
It sounds to me like they have heard the complaints from some who don't like the ESO system because it appears at first glance to undermine progression (it doesn't but whatever... some think it does) and are scaling different zones to different levels.
That is why ESO is head and shoulders MUCH better than Wow right now. The Wow designers don't have a clue how to make an enjoyable game. This trash they are attempting to interest us in is exactly that trash!
I'm glad for all the WoW faithful with these announcements, but nothing here that has me feeling like I have to return to WoW to scratch the itch. I subscribed for round 3 years at the beginning, but with so many more good quality games nowadays the enticement, now, of returning back to WoW for vanilla servers & these other announcements cannot beat the acknowledgment of, "oh wait pay to do the same ol' stuff all over again." Too little too late with the vanilla servers & let alone the economy is hyper-inflated now ... at least it was about a year ago while scratching the WoW itch with a free trial. I remember viewing some YouTube videos about someone remaking WoW using the Unreal engine now that would warrant a return! Otherwise been there done that with WoW till I finally broke WoW's spell over me. WoW was a masterful game & still is a good game so hopefully this is welcomed by all the remaining WoW players!
The entire world will be level scaled, though not all zones to 110. Each zone will have a minimum-maximum level caps. Flexible Expansion order is being introduced that applies to dungeons and rewards as well. This will begin with patch 7.3.5."
Well this I dont like and its going to be implemented even without the expansion so I'm on the fence about playing at all now. What? Walk outside Stormwind/Orgrimmar and everything 110? I'm not feeling it.
Based on everything we know, it feels like they didn't really learn anything from Legion. Like "If we keep giving them the same thing, they'll learn to like it." I'm curious on your take on all of this so far Suzie
Are you an idiot? You literally quoted the text and then entirely misinterpreted it. I'm not even sub'd to WoW, so do not mistake this for me going on the defensive.
"The entire world will be level scaled, though not all zones to 110. >>>>Each zone will have a minimum-maximum level caps.<<<<" I highly doubt that Elwynn Forest will be cap'd at 110.
@Iselin, @Coolit Wasn't GW2 first to introduce level scaling or my memory is playing tricks on me. Pretty sure GW2 was first.
They did something quite different - they only down-scaled after you leveled past a zone's cap. ESO scales low level players up to the one level that all the zones are. WOW is doing is something that seems similar but less radical than ESO's system.
It sounds to me like they have heard the complaints from some who don't like the ESO system because it appears at first glance to undermine progression (it doesn't but whatever... some think it does) and are scaling different zones to different levels.
One of the few things we disagree on. ESO's scaling might not destroy progression, but it sure destroyed the feeling of progression for me.
I miss having a great group in DAoC and pulling reds/purps because we were all more powerful than the sum of our parts. That was a cool feeling.
You can certainly do that in ESO also. The only thing missing is the red or purple con but there are some tough mofo world bosses in every zone that need a group. The mobs may all be the same level but they sure as hell are not created equal.
It's pretty standard in zone chat to hear someone wanting to get a group going to do all the bosses in a zone. Those are some fun impromptu half hour to 1 hour groups.
In zones where sets are popular it's common to see people organize those runs. That sort of mixed content goes a long way to energizing world content. People can connect, be friendly and helpful, and move on their way. It's nice to be able to help and be helped without it having to be a big huge deal. People do tend to banter and chat a bit during those runs too.
Indeed. It's really aggravating to see how many people mischaracterize ESO's level scaling and/or its effect on the game. I can't believe someone saying "there's no feeling of progression in ESO now" has actually played the game to any extent to see for themselves, or have and are just being dishonest about it.
I see world chat all the time with people looking for WB groups, or to run dungeons, or to do Dolmen runs (esp. during the Halloween event).
Even regular world mobs are variable, and they absolutely do get tougher as you progress in levels. I've been able to take out groups of 4 or 5 easily in earlier zones, while having a tough time with more than 2 in later areas.
Scaling, possibly the worst mmo mechanic to date, comes to WoW. Not that I really care about WoW anymore, but one has to observe where the giant steps.
Scaling, possibly the worst mmo mechanic to date, comes to WoW. Not that I really care about WoW anymore, but one has to observe where the giant steps.
It isn't outright scaling though. The zones will have level ranges with caps. Outlands and Northrend will scale from 60 to 80 for example. So it gives more flexibility with leveling through previous expansions, which is nice. I for example, can't stand old Outlands, and will be happy to be able to skip it now.
Scaling, possibly the worst mmo mechanic to date, comes to WoW. Not that I really care about WoW anymore, but one has to observe where the giant steps.
For you, but for me it's one of the best innovations to hit the genre. The only other major development I would put on par with it is megaserver tech.
Megaserver destroyed any sense of identity in MMORPGs. It's an innovation, sure, but it also has major drawbacks. As does scaling, depending upon how it's implemented.
I'm on Argent Dawn which is now a fairly low pop server. No one I know is on my server so how exactly do server divisions destroy a sense of identity when no one knows who I am in the first place? Am I supposed to just ditch all my friends scattered across other servers in favor of total strangers who are gonna be my new BFFs? That sounds like a bunch of bollocks to me, but it's your opinion. You may like the idea of people being arbitrarily separated from people they want to play with and I don't.
I'm wondering why, if you had such friends you wished to play with, you would've chosen different servers in the first place. That seems counterproductive to playing with friends.
Barring that, server transfers are something that can alleviate such woes, even when using traditional servers. The idea is that there's a sense of community within the server itself. It is something that existed in games such as DAoC (Alb-Guin here!), and it's been lost today in favor of "Hey, Torval #3249! I was grouped with Torval #2254 yesterday!"
Scaling, possibly the worst mmo mechanic to date, comes to WoW. Not that I really care about WoW anymore, but one has to observe where the giant steps.
For you, but for me it's one of the best innovations to hit the genre. The only other major development I would put on par with it is megaserver tech.
Megaserver destroyed any sense of identity in MMORPGs. It's an innovation, sure, but it also has major drawbacks. As does scaling, depending upon how it's implemented.
ESO implemented only one half of their megaserver idea. They left this part on the drawing board:
Players will fill out a questionnaire that describes their own preferred playstyle to assist the megaserver in allocating similar players to their game space. You can specify preferences for roleplaying, age groups, and degree of socialization. By flagging your character as “I want to meet new people and join a guild” you will be put into spaces with other players who are also interested in meeting new people, and with guilds who are recruiting new members. Alternatively, you could specify “I want to play solo tonight”, and the server will place you into a game space with other people who are interested in soloing, so you won’t be pestered with frequent group invitations.http://tamrielfoundry.com/2012/10/eso-media-event/
IDK why. Maybe the technical details were beyond their capabilities.
But WOW is going a bit in that direction with their plan to merge PVP and PVE servers and put players in a PVE or PVP phase depending on their flag choice. They don't seem to have plans to have other criteria determine where you're placed but there's also nothing stopping them from adding other flags (RP flag for example.)
That megaserver makes the need to merge low pop servers obsolete is undeniable just like it's undeniable that left to its own devices it undermines the sense of community that is built naturally in smaller servers when you see and play with the same players day in and day out.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
That megaserver makes the need to merge low pop servers obsolete is undeniable just like it's undeniable that left to its own devices it undermines the sense of community that is built naturally in smaller servers when you see and play with the same players day in and day out.
Which is where my comment that it has major drawbacks came in.
I've never argued that it wasn't an effective method of placing players within proximity to one another- but there's a whole lot more to encouraging player interaction and grouping than simply providing large pools of players into the same content area. FPSs and MOBAs have long proven that you can match players effectively by creating large pools of players to pull from. They've also long proven what happens when you make players such an expendable resource to one another; they're infamous for the toxicity that such a system breeds (along with the competitive nature of those genres).
Megaserver tech, as it's been used thus far, does little to nothing to encourage any kind of interaction other than "rush to end of dungeon/group content, leave, rinse and repeat." This also destroys the sense of interaction that RPGs have always included at their core. It'd be akin to a D&D session where nobody ever speaks, they simply all await their turn to roll the dice as quickly as possible in complete and utter silence.
That's great I guess, if your only interest is to churn through mobs. But if I'm going to churn through mobs with a group, small-team multiplayer games generally provide a more quality experience (ala ARPGs such as Diablo or the Vermintide series). None of that makes an MMORPG experience unique or memorable (at least, not to me). Having a server where groups of players become (in)famous and having that meta-interaction between players/groups of players is the only real strength of MMORPGs that cannot be realistically exceeded by other genres.
Even in vanilla WoW, I remember guilds becoming memorable enough to recognize within the server community, including one I was in briefly (Swift). I remember the same type of recognition among guilds/alliances in DAoC (having played on Guinevere). Those types of identities are pretty much destroyed when you begin pooling all players together into one megaserver framework. Granted, some MMORPGs don't really need such an intimately familiar community (namely, those with very little PvP or competitive content). However, in games such as the upcoming Camelot Unchained, it would be a shame to lose such a sense of identity.
That megaserver makes the need to merge low pop servers obsolete is undeniable just like it's undeniable that left to its own devices it undermines the sense of community that is built naturally in smaller servers when you see and play with the same players day in and day out.
Which is where my comment that it has major drawbacks came in.
I've never argued that it wasn't an effective method of placing players within proximity to one another- but there's a whole lot more to encouraging player interaction and grouping than simply providing large pools of players into the same content area. FPSs and MOBAs have long proven that you can match players effectively by creating large pools of players to pull from. They've also long proven what happens when you make players such an expendable resource to one another; they're infamous for the toxicity that such a system breeds (along with the competitive nature of those genres).
Megaserver tech, as it's been used thus far, does little to nothing to encourage any kind of interaction other than "rush to end of dungeon/group content, leave, rinse and repeat." This also destroys the sense of interaction that RPGs have always included at their core. It'd be akin to a D&D session where nobody ever speaks, they simply all await their turn to roll the dice as quickly as possible in complete and utter silence.
That's great I guess, if your only interest is to churn through mobs. But if I'm going to churn through mobs with a group, small-team multiplayer games generally provide a more quality experience (ala ARPGs such as Diablo or the Vermintide series). None of that makes an MMORPG experience unique or memorable (at least, not to me). Having a server where groups of players become (in)famous and having that meta-interaction between players/groups of players is the only real strength of MMORPGs that cannot be realistically exceeded by other genres.
Even in vanilla WoW, I remember guilds becoming memorable enough to recognize within the server community, including one I was in briefly (Swift). I remember the same type of recognition among guilds/alliances in DAoC (having played on Guinevere). Those types of identities are pretty much destroyed when you begin pooling all players together into one megaserver framework. Granted, some MMORPGs don't really need such an intimately familiar community (namely, those with very little PvP or competitive content). However, in games such as the upcoming Camelot Unchained, it would be a shame to lose such a sense of identity.
Yeah I was in Alb/Guin as well. That sense of community in DAoC was for me the gold standard for MMOs and a lot of it was done by design: the incentives to come together as a realm and PVP even if it was just so you could get access to the best PVE space, Darkness Falls, were very much part of their secret sauce. Their system of guilds and alliances of guilds that had their own alliance chat was also a great system: you could band together for mutual interest even if those other guys in that other guild in your alliance had funny capes
But the thing is, I have never seen that type of community ever again since DAoC in MMOs with regular servers or megaservers. You may think that megaservers are the egg but I think they may just be the chicken. 2017 MMO players are just plain different for hundreds of reasons unrelated to server structure.
For one thing, back in DAoC's heydays "social network" wasn't even a phrase in common use. MMOs in those days filled that social need in addition to everything else they did. That, IMO, is the big difference: the online social networks that matter to people today are not usually found in MMOs any longer.
So IMO, megaservers do not kill a chance for those old-fashioned MMO communities to exist simply because they're already dead.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Scaling, possibly the worst mmo mechanic to date, comes to WoW. Not that I really care about WoW anymore, but one has to observe where the giant steps.
For you, but for me it's one of the best innovations to hit the genre. The only other major development I would put on par with it is megaserver tech.
Megaserver destroyed any sense of identity in MMORPGs. It's an innovation, sure, but it also has major drawbacks. As does scaling, depending upon how it's implemented.
You could say Scaling is improvement if you only look at it from the technical side. It opens up content to more players but on the flip side it also devalues content and make it bland (as is the case with most gamey mechanics). I guess it depends on taste, but I value consistancy and as mentioned identity, and to me a mmorpg is about virtual world. I am aware that all so called mmos keep taking steps away from virtual world with gamey mechanics like scaling, megaserver, personal loot, dungeon finder, currency venders for gear, f2p shops, story driven, and the list goes on .. Which are the reasons players who enjoy the original virtual world kind of mmorpg are alienated in the current mmo selection, and keep yaddering on about it.
That megaserver makes the need to merge low pop servers obsolete is undeniable just like it's undeniable that left to its own devices it undermines the sense of community that is built naturally in smaller servers when you see and play with the same players day in and day out.
Which is where my comment that it has major drawbacks came in.
I've never argued that it wasn't an effective method of placing players within proximity to one another- but there's a whole lot more to encouraging player interaction and grouping than simply providing large pools of players into the same content area. FPSs and MOBAs have long proven that you can match players effectively by creating large pools of players to pull from. They've also long proven what happens when you make players such an expendable resource to one another; they're infamous for the toxicity that such a system breeds (along with the competitive nature of those genres).
Megaserver tech, as it's been used thus far, does little to nothing to encourage any kind of interaction other than "rush to end of dungeon/group content, leave, rinse and repeat." This also destroys the sense of interaction that RPGs have always included at their core. It'd be akin to a D&D session where nobody ever speaks, they simply all await their turn to roll the dice as quickly as possible in complete and utter silence.
That's great I guess, if your only interest is to churn through mobs. But if I'm going to churn through mobs with a group, small-team multiplayer games generally provide a more quality experience (ala ARPGs such as Diablo or the Vermintide series). None of that makes an MMORPG experience unique or memorable (at least, not to me). Having a server where groups of players become (in)famous and having that meta-interaction between players/groups of players is the only real strength of MMORPGs that cannot be realistically exceeded by other genres.
Even in vanilla WoW, I remember guilds becoming memorable enough to recognize within the server community, including one I was in briefly (Swift). I remember the same type of recognition among guilds/alliances in DAoC (having played on Guinevere). Those types of identities are pretty much destroyed when you begin pooling all players together into one megaserver framework. Granted, some MMORPGs don't really need such an intimately familiar community (namely, those with very little PvP or competitive content). However, in games such as the upcoming Camelot Unchained, it would be a shame to lose such a sense of identity.
Yeah I was in Alb/Guin as well. That sense of community in DAoC was for me the gold standard for MMOs and a lot of it was done by design: the incentives to come together as a realm and PVP even if it was just so you could get access to the best PVE space, Darkness Falls, were very much part of their secret sauce. Their system of guilds and alliances of guilds that had their own alliance chat was also a great system: you could band together for mutual interest even if those other guys in that other guild in your alliance had funny capes
But the thing is, I have never seen that type of community ever again since DAoC in MMOs with regular servers or megaservers. You may think that megaservers are the egg but I think they may just be the chicken. 2017 MMO players are just plain different for hundreds of reasons unrelated to server structure.
For one thing, back in DAoC's heydays "social network" wasn't even a phrase in common use. MMOs in those days filled that social need in addition to everything else they did. That, IMO, is the big difference: the online social networks that matter to people today are not usually found in MMOs any longer.
So IMO, megaservers do not kill a chance for those old-fashioned MMO communities to exist simply because they're already dead.
I think DAoC created community the same way Lineage and EQ did, because the game mechanics were designed in such a way.
How could a megaserver kill community when the discussion just revolves around scale. I've still not seen an argument that explains how 10 1k servers is more community centric that 1 10k server. What if the game was just huge and had 10 10k servers instead of a megaserver. Now it's just using bigger servers with the same structure.
In a game that stands on a core pillar of "massively" being a defining characteristic I find the argument against MMO servers being "too massive" to be conflicting.
You have to strike the right size balance. The only sense of community most MMOs have these days is exclusive to guilds and playing with guild mates. But that has always been the least part of community in MMOs.
It's running into the same acquaintances outside your guild repeatedly, whether they're on your side or against you, that gives a server it's identity. You just get to know more people or at least about them when you run into them frequently.
In ESO the only place where that happens is in specific Cyrodiil campaigns because they're structured like small old-fashioned servers.
In PVE, dungeons or quickie PVP scenarios that just doesn't happen much because the player pool is huge when it's drawing from the whole megaserver. You either play within your guild or you're constantly playing with strangers you're likely never to see again.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think DAoC created community the same way Lineage and EQ did, because the game mechanics were designed in such a way.
How could a megaserver kill community when the discussion just revolves around scale. I've still not seen an argument that explains how 10 1k servers is more community centric that 1 10k server. What if the game was just huge and had 10 10k servers instead of a megaserver. Now it's just using bigger servers with the same structure.
In a game that stands on a core pillar of "massively" being a defining characteristic I find the argument against MMO servers being "too massive" to be conflicting.
My experience as to why - initially - a "strong" community developed in DAoC was because all the players in our guild came from other games. This was when the game launched in the EU about 6 months after the US launch. Mostly EQ and UO folks who "knew" what an mmo was and so forth. This - more than anything Mythic did - was the key.
I also experienced the issue of Mythic not having megaserver tech: falling population = server merges = destroyed communities. Exacerbated probably because of the population being split by faction of course. So despite the guild I was in (led at one stage) becoming "the last great hope for the server" to few people made "community" impossible.
Which has happened in countless other games.
Megaserver tech - however it is done - is both a curse and salvation.
With small servers you start out in small populations. You see the same voices in chat. And that helps get to know others. Makes the initial community building easy. Alone in a vast sea of people on a megaserver - nah. So community building is harder.
The upside is that once you have a guild however - and in ESO a 500 player guild = half an old DAoC server! - you start to see the same people in guild chat. And from there the "guild community" can build. A two step process though since someone has to randomly invite lots of people to kickstart it; and keep inviting. Which is the advantage of megaserver tech; you can keep on inviting people. Keep filling up "the community".
Without a megaserver the ability to keep the "small community" topped up cannot happen until the next server merge.
People - and their desire to build a community - are the key though. Which is what I - at least - experienced in DAoC. Lots of people who wanted to make it work.
Not sure I like the scaling and this next Xpac sound like it's more PVP oriented. Blizz is determined to make PVP the focus of this game. I guess they really haven't learned. When they start interjecting PVP into the PVE portion of the game, it's never received well.
Still early yet, but this may be the nail in the WoW coffin for me.
It's actually Alliance Vs. Horde. Not Alliance Vs. Horde Players. Warfront is a new PvE mode, similar to the Towers in Legion where you face off against NPCs. Though in a scenario / Battleground like instance that replicates RTS.
Plunder Islands has three PvE difficulty and one optional PvP in case you don't want to face off against a team of enemy A.I. in it.
There's a couple new Arenas and a new Battleground, though that's option and for the PvP crowd since they've been left barren for the last couple of expansions besides arena updates.
The game also makes it so there is no longer a PvP server. You always have the choice to turn it off in town and will be taken into a PvE instance of the world, whereas if you keep it on, a PvP instance. This makes ganking lower levels a near impossibility.
The story is basically just the two factions fighting, and not one that supports PvP. In fact, it gives more PvE options than ever and additional ways to opt out.
Scaling, on the other hand, is limited. Elwynn is still 1-10 on their Blizzcon test machines. Though areas pretty much are 20-60 for vanilla. 60-80 for Burning Crusade and Wrath. Etc. Pretty much just able to pick an area and get the full story and experience without outleveling it and feeling the need to move on to maximize experience gain.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
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I don't think you've actually read the post properly, because that's clearly not how they're going to work the scaling. Right now, zones work by assigning level ranges that progresses as you move through the zone. What Blizz are likely going to be doing is (a) tweaking these level ranges slightly, and (b) making the content in those zones scale within those level ranges. So a zone that right now, start to finish, is for 20-30 may still be for 20-30, but as you level up... the scaling levels everything up with you to a cap of 30. Why is this a big deal? Well, ask players with full heirlooms that run world content.
So no, you won't be wondering around at 110 seeing 110 mobs outside Stormwind or Ogrimmar. You'll be wondering around at 110 seeing mobs at the top end of the scaling for those zones, so... in these cases? Maybe somewhere in the 20-30 range.
That's the entire point; we've been moving towards fighting the same big bad for 3 expansions, and now we've defeated them. We KNOW there's another big bad coming, and this expansion will almost certainly be used to heavily foreshadow them and build up the lore around them.
We know that the next big bad is the Void and the Void Lords, and their Old God harbingers, and we know that both Kul Tiras and the Zandalari have been impacted in one way or another by N'Zoth (the last remaining Old God that hasn't been pwned into the ground). Queen Azshara and the Naga, for example, came under the corruption of N'Zoth. Thing is though: N'Zoth (just like C'Thun and Yogg-Saron) is a harbinger, and not the main threat, in the same way Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde were simply servants of Sargeras.
This expansion is clearly designed to create a situation where the Alliance and the Horde have engaged in a costly war that has left both sides in tatters, to undo the "power creep" that has happened over the last few expansions, where both factions have grown in strength enough to not only rival but outright defeat the greatest force in all of the cosmos ( The Burning Legion ), to leave them broken and beaten, with little strength and little hope for the future. I imagine whatever "peace" comes out of the Battle for Azeroth will be a bitter-sweet affair, a matter of necessity. However, it will be different to the past, where peace has been sought in order to defeat a greater threat. The peace this time around will simply be because they have beaten each other to a bloody pulp, and short of wiping each other out there is no other option. It will be in ignorance of the greater threat. It will be entirely self-inflicted, where in the past such destruction has always been at the hands of the greater threat. All the while, the loose threads will emerge that point more explicitly to the Void Lords, and by the end of the expansion, we'll almost certainly be facing a Void expansion into which we enter from a position of near absolute weakness.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
Level scaling is capped, for example dungeons in Outland will scale between 60 and 80. So if you are 110 you will still be able to solo dungeons. The scaling just allows you to do expansions (namely BC or WotLK) in any order you want.
So for example you can start in Outland, then if you decide you can go directly to WotLK and continue leveling there, go back to Outland, etc. Leveling is no longer linear.
I hear Cata is 80-90? So I dont understand how the choice works after Cata through Legion.
It doesnt kill it completely. Level scaling is capped so for example if you go to the vanilla zones the scaling stops at level 60. Outland AND WotLK scale from 60 to 80. So if you are max level you can do older content and be overpowered.
we didn't held their leader captive for years.
we didn't enslave a whole population.
it wasn't us who easily followed a SI:7 led by the legion to nearly go to full war
we are the good guys, the alliance the badies, always been!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Anyone who thinks this new expansion will be any good is dreaming.
Wow is on it's downhill slide, I would not waste a second playing it any more.
This announcement makes me think someone might be prying the nail out!
Are you an idiot? You literally quoted the text and then entirely misinterpreted it. I'm not even sub'd to WoW, so do not mistake this for me going on the defensive.
"The entire world will be level scaled, though not all zones to 110. >>>>Each zone will have a minimum-maximum level caps.<<<<" I highly doubt that Elwynn Forest will be cap'd at 110.
Indeed. It's really aggravating to see how many people mischaracterize ESO's level scaling and/or its effect on the game. I can't believe someone saying "there's no feeling of progression in ESO now" has actually played the game to any extent to see for themselves, or have and are just being dishonest about it.
I see world chat all the time with people looking for WB groups, or to run dungeons, or to do Dolmen runs (esp. during the Halloween event).
Even regular world mobs are variable, and they absolutely do get tougher as you progress in levels. I've been able to take out groups of 4 or 5 easily in earlier zones, while having a tough time with more than 2 in later areas.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Barring that, server transfers are something that can alleviate such woes, even when using traditional servers. The idea is that there's a sense of community within the server itself. It is something that existed in games such as DAoC (Alb-Guin here!), and it's been lost today in favor of "Hey, Torval #3249! I was grouped with Torval #2254 yesterday!"
IDK why. Maybe the technical details were beyond their capabilities.
But WOW is going a bit in that direction with their plan to merge PVP and PVE servers and put players in a PVE or PVP phase depending on their flag choice. They don't seem to have plans to have other criteria determine where you're placed but there's also nothing stopping them from adding other flags (RP flag for example.)
That megaserver makes the need to merge low pop servers obsolete is undeniable just like it's undeniable that left to its own devices it undermines the sense of community that is built naturally in smaller servers when you see and play with the same players day in and day out.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've never argued that it wasn't an effective method of placing players within proximity to one another- but there's a whole lot more to encouraging player interaction and grouping than simply providing large pools of players into the same content area. FPSs and MOBAs have long proven that you can match players effectively by creating large pools of players to pull from. They've also long proven what happens when you make players such an expendable resource to one another; they're infamous for the toxicity that such a system breeds (along with the competitive nature of those genres).
Megaserver tech, as it's been used thus far, does little to nothing to encourage any kind of interaction other than "rush to end of dungeon/group content, leave, rinse and repeat." This also destroys the sense of interaction that RPGs have always included at their core. It'd be akin to a D&D session where nobody ever speaks, they simply all await their turn to roll the dice as quickly as possible in complete and utter silence.
That's great I guess, if your only interest is to churn through mobs. But if I'm going to churn through mobs with a group, small-team multiplayer games generally provide a more quality experience (ala ARPGs such as Diablo or the Vermintide series). None of that makes an MMORPG experience unique or memorable (at least, not to me). Having a server where groups of players become (in)famous and having that meta-interaction between players/groups of players is the only real strength of MMORPGs that cannot be realistically exceeded by other genres.
Even in vanilla WoW, I remember guilds becoming memorable enough to recognize within the server community, including one I was in briefly (Swift). I remember the same type of recognition among guilds/alliances in DAoC (having played on Guinevere). Those types of identities are pretty much destroyed when you begin pooling all players together into one megaserver framework. Granted, some MMORPGs don't really need such an intimately familiar community (namely, those with very little PvP or competitive content). However, in games such as the upcoming Camelot Unchained, it would be a shame to lose such a sense of identity.
But the thing is, I have never seen that type of community ever again since DAoC in MMOs with regular servers or megaservers. You may think that megaservers are the egg but I think they may just be the chicken. 2017 MMO players are just plain different for hundreds of reasons unrelated to server structure.
For one thing, back in DAoC's heydays "social network" wasn't even a phrase in common use. MMOs in those days filled that social need in addition to everything else they did. That, IMO, is the big difference: the online social networks that matter to people today are not usually found in MMOs any longer.
So IMO, megaservers do not kill a chance for those old-fashioned MMO communities to exist simply because they're already dead.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
It's running into the same acquaintances outside your guild repeatedly, whether they're on your side or against you, that gives a server it's identity. You just get to know more people or at least about them when you run into them frequently.
In ESO the only place where that happens is in specific Cyrodiil campaigns because they're structured like small old-fashioned servers.
In PVE, dungeons or quickie PVP scenarios that just doesn't happen much because the player pool is huge when it's drawing from the whole megaserver. You either play within your guild or you're constantly playing with strangers you're likely never to see again.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I also experienced the issue of Mythic not having megaserver tech: falling population = server merges = destroyed communities. Exacerbated probably because of the population being split by faction of course. So despite the guild I was in (led at one stage) becoming "the last great hope for the server" to few people made "community" impossible.
Which has happened in countless other games.
Megaserver tech - however it is done - is both a curse and salvation.
With small servers you start out in small populations. You see the same voices in chat. And that helps get to know others. Makes the initial community building easy. Alone in a vast sea of people on a megaserver - nah. So community building is harder.
The upside is that once you have a guild however - and in ESO a 500 player guild = half an old DAoC server! - you start to see the same people in guild chat. And from there the "guild community" can build. A two step process though since someone has to randomly invite lots of people to kickstart it; and keep inviting. Which is the advantage of megaserver tech; you can keep on inviting people. Keep filling up "the community".
Without a megaserver the ability to keep the "small community" topped up cannot happen until the next server merge.
People - and their desire to build a community - are the key though. Which is what I - at least - experienced in DAoC. Lots of people who wanted to make it work.
It's actually Alliance Vs. Horde. Not Alliance Vs. Horde Players. Warfront is a new PvE mode, similar to the Towers in Legion where you face off against NPCs. Though in a scenario / Battleground like instance that replicates RTS.
Plunder Islands has three PvE difficulty and one optional PvP in case you don't want to face off against a team of enemy A.I. in it.
There's a couple new Arenas and a new Battleground, though that's option and for the PvP crowd since they've been left barren for the last couple of expansions besides arena updates.
The game also makes it so there is no longer a PvP server. You always have the choice to turn it off in town and will be taken into a PvE instance of the world, whereas if you keep it on, a PvP instance. This makes ganking lower levels a near impossibility.
The story is basically just the two factions fighting, and not one that supports PvP. In fact, it gives more PvE options than ever and additional ways to opt out.
Scaling, on the other hand, is limited. Elwynn is still 1-10 on their Blizzcon test machines. Though areas pretty much are 20-60 for vanilla. 60-80 for Burning Crusade and Wrath. Etc. Pretty much just able to pick an area and get the full story and experience without outleveling it and feeling the need to move on to maximize experience gain.