Any MMORPGs where the journey is more important than the destination?

Lienhart · October 2017

I'm gonna blame WoW for this but every MMORPG I've played since WoW I feel this ridiculously fucking dumb urge to rush to max level and do "end game".

I flashed back to Final Fantasy XI recently and remembered how long it took to hit 75. The journey was full of memorable hilarious shit like Tarutaru's dancing in Valkurm Dunes while a train of goblins chased my party away. Because the journey was important, so was the company. I met two really cool ppl in XI and my brother joined in later.

It's been 13 years since then. I don't fucking remember anyone else in other MMORPGs.

Panther2103 · October 2017

Lienhart said:

I'm gonna blame WoW for this but every MMORPG I've played since WoW I feel this ridiculously fucking dumb urge to rush to max level and do "end game".

I flashed back to Final Fantasy XI recently and remembered how long it took to hit 75. The journey was full of memorable hilarious shit like Tarutaru's dancing in Valkurm Dunes while a train of goblins chased my party away. Because the journey was important, so was the company. I met two really cool ppl in XI and my brother joined in later.

It's been 13 years since then. I don't fucking remember anyone else in other MMORPGs.

Well even at that point it was a rush to max. You weren't partying and remembering these things just to party. You were leveling. It just took longer. There wasn't even really a journey in FFXI, it was literally just a grind in a party most of the time. You can blame WoW for making the leveling process easier, but you can't blame it for removing the "journey".

You can still meet cool people and party up in 100% of MMO's now a days. You just aren't actively seeking it out because back then it was pretty much required. If you play a game you enjoy, and you join a guild, you will find that same feeling. You just have to make sure you do it yourself. Last time I played FFXIV I joined a Free Company and had plenty of fun just chilling in our house and talking to people.

If you want to play a game where you are forced to group to level you are probably going to have to go back and play older games, or wait for one of the throwback newer games. Personally I've had plenty of fun playing newer games leveling, I just make sure I go out of my way to find a guild I like before I level too high so I can have people to communicate with.

anemo · October 2017

Worlds Adrift is pretty good about this.   They just toss you at a world with player made islands, the ability to make your own ship, and randomly generated stats for ship parts. They got atmosphere and world feel down pat, but with all the bugs, and how bad the devs are at designing for player interaction the servers have emptied out (they have good ideas for trade granting really fun temporary advancement, but are so bad at PvP balance that it's the only playstyle that matters when meeting people which is kinda sad).

EVE will beat out most games, just by the shear boredom that being solo is and how much power groups have.   So that designed "hostage" and "Stockholm" situation is really good about making the player interaction stories you want.

If you have RL programming, art, 3d modeling, or similar skills.   SecondLife can be pretty interesting for the casual business relationships you can form (seriously only small amounts from tens of to a few hundred dollars (or 10 to 80 hours depending) are at risk, as long as you stay away from being a SIM owner or similar). There also isn't any leveling/grinding or "default" PvP so those playstyles don't have a chance to utterly dominate all discussion, so even normal discussion/similar are good. As for the creepiness factors, you're on the Internet which is way less tame than this game is.

Screeps is pretty good as a community. For a FFA PvP game it doesn't have any of the silly bad mentalities at all (forum vampires, name shaming, and similar), and actually has a really good community.   Though you're again stuck with having a high barrier to entry of being a programmer or choosing to learn.

Eldurian · October 2017

It's really all about the level of reward people feel they are entitled to because the have been grinding longer. The larger the reward the more people feel the need to reach it as soon as possible. And it's not even just about epeen measuring. They feel the need to get there to do content they want to do, or to be strong enough to play with their friends.

So the size of the stat gap is inversely proportional to the length of of grind time before people just say "screw this crap!" and find a new game. In order to bring a long grind time game back in 2017 and have people still play it, you would need that grind to offer benefit much more reasonable then "You can't kill me period!" for a level gap of 10 or more.

______________________

As to your original question. You might enjoy Wurm Online. I think it would literally be impossible to max every single skill if you played 24/7, 365 days a year. Even maxing a single skill is huge achievement.

Octagon7711 · October 2017

It's like taking a vacation and the company has an itinerary all prearranged for you. Most people go along with the program and mini-max based on what their tour guide tells them is planned for that week.

But some people like to go off on their own and explore and see the parts that interest them personally. That's how I approached most MMO's. I may play a game for many years and never touch some types of the content in that game. So I'll take some of the tours but mostly go off and do my own thing. So that would make the journey more important.

Hariken · October 2017

Its really about how you decide to play. Its tough if you need/want to do group content. But if you solo you can play how you want. In group content its all about rushing through the game content today. The only way to take your time now is solo.

Darksworm · October 2017

Lienhart said:

I'm gonna blame WoW for this but every MMORPG I've played since WoW I feel this ridiculously fucking dumb urge to rush to max level and do "end game".

I flashed back to Final Fantasy XI recently and remembered how long it took to hit 75. The journey was full of memorable hilarious shit like Tarutaru's dancing in Valkurm Dunes while a train of goblins chased my party away. Because the journey was important, so was the company. I met two really cool ppl in XI and my brother joined in later.

It's been 13 years since then. I don't fucking remember anyone else in other MMORPGs.

That's because you've been hopping form game to game like all the rest of them. When you play games like that, you don't really care about getting to know other people. You may look upon the times 13 years ago and mourn the relationships you were able to forge and maintain back then, but you are ignoring the fact that the games aren't the only thing that have changed. You've changed, too.

We don't exist in a vacuum. Time doesn't stand still. Technology Changes. Game Design Changes. Gaming Norms and Gaming Culture Changes. People Change - including OURSELVES.

The people thinking Pantheon is going to bring back the Glory Days of social gaming are in for a rude awakening. It will be yet another game where people have their "Constant Parties" that they level and raid with, and where Guilds are dominated by cliques. Why? Because that's the types of people that play these games.

If you want slow leveling, go to Lineage II and avoid buying XP Boosts. You'll get your wish.

But the fact that it allows you to grind slowly to max level doesn't change the fact that the people in that game are no different than in any other (worse, actually, because the grindy mechanics makes players incredibly selfish ... way beyond what the "Gear Race" does).

The social aspect of gaming have moved beyond the games themselves. People no longer feel tied to a specific game just to keep in touch with the people they've met. They have Cell Phones, Facebook, iMessage, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, etc.. TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, Battle.net, Xbox Live, PlayStation Network, Steam, Curse, Discord, Twitch, YouTube, etc...

You will never, ever, get the kind of immersion and social gaming experience you got over a decade ago, in earlier games that were popular when the internet was proliferating in accessibility and quality.

Times have changed.

Time for you to move on.

Those of us who experienced it have great experiences to look back on. We were part of something special - the birth and proliferation of online gaming in its infancy. The era of true MMORPG gaming.

But those times are over. They're history, and history doesn't always repeat itself.

Phaserlight · October 2017

Vendetta Online: the journey is the reward.

No, really. Licenses go up to 33, I think, but no-one has ever reached the top to my knowledge in 13 years. You'll have 80% of everything you need by license 4 (in each category), which can be reached in about a day of dedicated play. Everything you need to enjoy long term play.

The journey is an economic one, the reward is all the crazy / interesting stuff that happens along the way. It all points toward sector conflicts, station conquests, duels or Hive battles. However, if you want to bring a little flavor to the table you need an angle; this means being part of a guild, running a virtual business, or having some personal long-term objective. For myself, I want to build a Goliath named Babylon Rocker. To do this, I need to navigate the web of alliances controlling the stations while remaining true to my guild's charter; this brings me into all sorts of situations in which hilarity ensues. The journey is the reward.

nariusseldon · October 2017

nah .. neither the journal nor the destination is important. Fun is.

Maurgrim · October 2017

I have never played or treated any MMO that the game starts at level cap.
I always took my time to level, read/listen the quests, reading lore, do crafting a long the way, smelled the roses.

Gymrat313 · October 2017

Guild Wars 2

postlarval · October 2017

Most MMOs have a journey...a journey that takes you right to the shopping mall.

sunandshadow · October 2017

One of the great things about being a solo player is that I can just ignore my XP bar and not have people pressuring me to keep up with them in either quest sequences or levels for dungeons. If possible I'll do more than one starting area's quests on the same character; like in Wildstar, I only made two characters but between them I did pretty much everything in the lower half of the game.

ConstantineMerus · October 2017

DMKano said:

In short - no.

As long as the game has progression (levels, gear, etc...) the destination will be more important by design

Not if there is no max level.

ConstantineMerus · October 2017

DMKano said:

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

In short - no.

As long as the game has progression (levels, gear, etc...) the destination will be more important by design

Not if there is no max level.

There is always a "realistic" max level thats considered end-game. Soft cap is a good example.

Also its not only about levels its also about gear progression which is usually more important.

if there is gear progression, then theres end-game gear as well.

What do you consider a destination in EVE?

Lithuanian · October 2017

In my opinion - Lord of the rings online. End-game is as always, dungeons/raids/who-got-Shiny-Dagger questions. Quests are something that makes you involved into events.

Delphos · October 2017

This is a personal matter i think, you cant blame people`s stupidity over any game, and this is more about how each one plays a game than about the game itself, so pick any game with a good rich story and enjoy it as you will. If you can deal with the dated graphics, EQ2 os still incomparable in terms of rich story, details and overall complexity.

Loke666 · October 2017

Hariken said:

Its really about how you decide to play. Its tough if you need/want to do group content. But if you solo you can play how you want. In group content its all about rushing through the game content today. The only way to take your time now is solo.

What? You actually level faster if you soloquests then in groups today unless you with "grouping" mean speed running soloquests with a couple of friends. Running dungeons have not been the fastest way to get XP since about 2007.

I don't rush content (at least not on my first character, playing through the same content on alts can be a different thing) but yet I reach the endgame really fast. Modern MMOs are just made so you reach the endgame fast even if you just play 30 minutes a day.

As for OP: Actually, the journey is still the fun part since the endgame usually is terrible, it is just that it is a short journey nowadays.

The best choice is probably to wait for Pantheon, you wont rush through the content there.

AAAMEOW · October 2017

Play korean grinder. You'll never reach the end... I remember having a few thousand playing hours and still havn't reach max level.

Kyleran · October 2017

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Loke666 said:

The best choice is probably to wait for Pantheon, you wont rush through the content there.

Haha want to bet some real money on that ?

When it gets closer to launch we can take start taking bets on how long it will take someone to reach level cap or clear the first raid.

ConstantineMerus · October 2017

Kyleran said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Loke666 said:

The best choice is probably to wait for Pantheon, you wont rush through the content there.

Haha want to bet some real money on that ?

When it gets closer to launch we can take start taking bets on how long it will take someone to reach level cap or clear the first raid.

For now we can bet on if it ever comes out, when and how awful it's going to be!

Nilden · October 2017

postlarval said:

Most MMOs have a journey...a journey that takes you right to the shopping mall.

Destination, cash shop.

postlarval · October 2017

Nilden said:

postlarval said:

Most MMOs have a journey...a journey that takes you right to the shopping mall.

Destination, cash shop.

That could be the title of the next big AAA MMO: Destination, Cash Shop!

btdt · October 2017

You can't have a destination without a journey. No one skips the journey, just some take a shorter trip than others. And lest we forget, end game is still part of the journey. The destination is when you decide you are done.

Nilden · October 2017

postlarval said:

Nilden said:

postlarval said:

Most MMOs have a journey...a journey that takes you right to the shopping mall.

Destination, cash shop.

That could be the title of the next big AAA MMO: Destination, Cash Shop!

Hey the new Magic the Gathering MMO could be Lootbox: The Opening.

AAAMEOW · October 2017

The journey is always more important than the destination. For some people the journey start at max level.

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Any MMORPGs where the journey is more important than the destination?

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV