I find it funny that the people backing the game are also going to allow CR to nickle and dime their play experience.
If you take into account that a majority of backers only paid for a starter package (which you could get for as low as 20 bucks), having a monetization model based on voluntary payments does not sound like "nickle and dime"-ing to me.
Such monetization models work for other games and bring in up to 1.6 billion bucks
"....League makes all its money in-game, with
champions, skins, and portraits available to purchase in the store with
either Influence Points earned from playing games, or Riot Points
purchased with real money. ...."
Lol, comparing a capital ship which cost nearly 1000$, has huge gameplay impact and will probably take months to assemble/buy without the money to a balanced champion like 100s others, where even the newest one takes cca 2-3 gamedays to farm, is available for free the next week and costs cca 10 dollars with free skin...
You're hitting an all-time low with fanboy excuses erillion
have fun...for 850$
Here are the facts:
1. The company has stated multiple times that there will not be advantages from buying these ships 2. We do not have any information on how they will make that possible. 3. we do not have any information that what they are saying is untrue.
so instead of theorcrafting as if its fact that there will be advantages, just wait and find out. but as it stands now, they are saying no advantage so unless you already know the game mechanics personally and havent told any reporters then you also have no idea.
make sense?
One idea I do have is that everything is subject to change. They can say it's written in stone and it will be, right up to the time they decide to change it. So continuing to sell ships after release won't surprise me. Making the game into another Eve online won't surprise me (they say it will be balanced but nearly every demo features pirates or attacks in some way). Just like the original backers who expected the game to launch in 2014, everything they say is subject to change. Just have to wait and see what they actually do which may be different from what they said because it's easy to say stuff but doing it is not as easy, and doing it right is even harder. I was in a ship today and clipped through a closed hatch into space even though they said they only wanted to release updates that were polished and when they were ready.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I find it funny that the people backing the game are also going to allow CR to nickle and dime their play experience.
If you take into account that a majority of backers only paid for a starter package (which you could get for as low as 20 bucks), having a monetization model based on voluntary payments does not sound like "nickle and dime"-ing to me.
Such monetization models work for other games and bring in up to 1.6 billion bucks
"....League makes all its money in-game, with
champions, skins, and portraits available to purchase in the store with
either Influence Points earned from playing games, or Riot Points
purchased with real money. ...."
Lol, comparing a capital ship which cost nearly 1000$, has huge gameplay impact and will probably take months to assemble/buy without the money to a balanced champion like 100s others, where even the newest one takes cca 2-3 gamedays to farm, is available for free the next week and costs cca 10 dollars with free skin...
You're hitting an all-time low with fanboy excuses erillion
have fun...for 850$
Here are the facts:
1. The company has stated multiple times that there will not be advantages from buying these ships 2. We do not have any information on how they will make that possible. 3. we do not have any information that what they are saying is untrue.
so instead of theorcrafting as if its fact that there will be advantages, just wait and find out. but as it stands now, they are saying no advantage so unless you already know the game mechanics personally and havent told any reporters then you also have no idea.
make sense?
You have an ignore list posted in your signature? o.0
To add to what you were saying, an example Ben Lesnick gave long ago. You may own a Starfarer but you won't be flying it day, week or possibly even month one. You will be to earn money to buy component systems, fuel, power cells and possibly AI or player crew contracts to be anywhere near in effective operating condition. You will need to complete certain missions to earn money and trust of some sellers to gain access to some of those components. You may need certain certificates to be able to be allowed to pilot or even command your own large ship. Subsumption and your actions will dictate how quickly you move forward in your career progress.
I fully expect to be stuck in my Freelancer a full month before I can even think about taking my next multi-crew ship out for a spin.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
But as an unfinished game where everything is in such flux and nothing is set in stone, including the comments officially made like the one I off the cuff referenced by CIG Community Engagement Ben Liznick , isn't everything discussed speculative? You can suggest anyone not speculate when the entire content frame in which we can speak is all speculation. The only thing we know is that the game is currently in development.
even when it is released it is not set in stone, everything can always change. You work with the most current information to hand until it changes.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
But as an unfinished game where everything is in such flux and nothing is set in stone, including the comments officially made like the one I off the cuff referenced by CIG Community Engagement Ben Liznick , isn't everything discussed speculative? You can suggest anyone not speculate when the entire content frame in which we can speak is all speculation. The only thing we know is that the game is currently in development.
no.
here is what is not speculation
FACT: They have stated that the game will not provide advantages to people who buy early FACT: we have no idea how they will do that
CONCLUSION: its best to say 'they claim they will not provide advantages but I do not see how that is possible we will have to wait and see
INSTEAD OF: making up random things and acting like they are fact.
CONCLUSION 2: It is physically impossible for there to be NO ADVANTAGE to having multiple ships, some with LTI vs someone who begins with just one single starter ship. You can argue that we do not know the magnitude of the advantage, but even something as simple as having an extensive fleet to choose from is a clear advantage...
How about we stop trying to prove every doubter wrong and just say you believe that the impact of the advantages the $160M (or whatever they have raised) spent so far will be low. Then we wait and see when the game launches who is right?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
but even something as simple as having an extensive fleet to choose from is a clear advantage...
Unless it is much cheaper to only own a starter ship and much easier to manage due to no magic teleportation system if you are a solo player, I don't know just throwing it out there as a possible example.
but even something as simple as having an extensive fleet to choose from is a clear advantage...
Unless it is much cheaper to only own a starter ship and much easier to manage due to no magic teleportation system if you are a solo player, I don't know just throwing it out there as a possible example.
Then one could simply dispose of (sell) extraneous ones.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Lack of publishers at the yoke is killing this industry. Turns out they're a necessary evil, like most bosses are.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a reason I find myself playing hole in the wall indie MMOs and enjoying them more than I've enjoyed any AAA MMO in the past 10 years. It's because I don't enjoy playing the same game with different skins over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Deliver me another version of WoW and you might as well have not made a game at all as far as I am concerned. I've already played WoW. I didn't like it that much, even vanilla. Now that I've maxed characters in a couple clones and done the starting process more times than I can count I play another WoW clone and I'm bored from the very start.
If SC development shut down tomorrow and they handed us a half baked buggy 3.0 and and Arena Commander as they are right now I would still rather play it than WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, FF14, GW2 etc. because at least it feels like a different game.
I find it funny that the people backing the game are also going to allow CR to nickle and dime their play experience.
If you take into account that a majority of backers only paid for a starter package (which you could get for as low as 20 bucks), having a monetization model based on voluntary payments does not sound like "nickle and dime"-ing to me.
Such monetization models work for other games and bring in up to 1.6 billion bucks
"....League makes all its money in-game, with
champions, skins, and portraits available to purchase in the store with
either Influence Points earned from playing games, or Riot Points
purchased with real money. ...."
Lol, comparing a capital ship which cost nearly 1000$, has huge gameplay impact and will probably take months to assemble/buy without the money to a balanced champion like 100s others, where even the newest one takes cca 2-3 gamedays to farm, is available for free the next week and costs cca 10 dollars with free skin...
You're hitting an all-time low with fanboy excuses erillion
have fun...for 850$
Here are the facts:
1. The company has stated multiple times that there will not be advantages from buying these ships 2. We do not have any information on how they will make that possible. 3. we do not have any information that what they are saying is untrue.
so instead of theorcrafting as if its fact that there will be advantages, just wait and find out. but as it stands now, they are saying no advantage so unless you already know the game mechanics personally and havent told any reporters then you also have no idea.
make sense?
You have an ignore list posted in your signature? o.0
To add to what you were saying, an example Ben Lesnick gave long ago. You may own a Starfarer but you won't be flying it day, week or possibly even month one. You will be to earn money to buy component systems, fuel, power cells and possibly AI or player crew contracts to be anywhere near in effective operating condition. You will need to complete certain missions to earn money and trust of some sellers to gain access to some of those components. You may need certain certificates to be able to be allowed to pilot or even command your own large ship. Subsumption and your actions will dictate how quickly you move forward in your career progress.
I fully expect to be stuck in my Freelancer a full month before I can even think about taking my next multi-crew ship out for a spin.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
Suddenly every statement is a speculation...funny how the tides have turned..
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Lack of publishers at the yoke is killing this industry. Turns out they're a necessary evil, like most bosses are.
And look at the great status of the gaming scenario with them around!
The "necessary evil" that publishers are, is why SC would never exist if it depended on them, taking high financial risks on a project of this scale and ambition would be a no-go from the start.
Such as Everquest Next:
Ambitious fresh take on a new MMO starting development + Falling in the hands of biggest MMO publishers = Cancelled.
Lack of a publisher is why SC barely exists, after this amount of time and money. If the game ever releases in a decent state, get back to me, and maybe I'll change my mind. Until then, it's all concepts and talk without direction.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a reason I find myself playing hole in the wall indie MMOs and enjoying them more than I've enjoyed any AAA MMO in the past 10 years. It's because I don't enjoy playing the same game with different skins over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Deliver me another version of WoW and you might as well have not made a game at all as far as I am concerned. I've already played WoW. I didn't like it that much, even vanilla. Now that I've maxed characters in a couple clones and done the starting process more times than I can count I play another WoW clone and I'm bored from the very start.
If SC development shut down tomorrow and they handed us a half baked buggy 3.0 and and Arena Commander as they are right now I would still rather play it than WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, FF14, GW2 etc. because at least it feels like a different game.
So you'd play something just because it's different? Even though it has hardly any content at all? If you want different MMOs there's dozens of them out there with years worth of content to play through and enough ideas to differentiate them from being a WoW clone.
Yet somehow you say you'd rather play a glorified tech demo with a few hours worth of content.
I find it funny that the people backing the game are also going to allow CR to nickle and dime their play experience.
If you take into account that a majority of backers only paid for a starter package (which you could get for as low as 20 bucks), having a monetization model based on voluntary payments does not sound like "nickle and dime"-ing to me.
Such monetization models work for other games and bring in up to 1.6 billion bucks
"....League makes all its money in-game, with
champions, skins, and portraits available to purchase in the store with
either Influence Points earned from playing games, or Riot Points
purchased with real money. ...."
Lol, comparing a capital ship which cost nearly 1000$, has huge gameplay impact and will probably take months to assemble/buy without the money to a balanced champion like 100s others, where even the newest one takes cca 2-3 gamedays to farm, is available for free the next week and costs cca 10 dollars with free skin...
You're hitting an all-time low with fanboy excuses erillion
have fun...for 850$
Here are the facts:
1. The company has stated multiple times that there will not be advantages from buying these ships 2. We do not have any information on how they will make that possible. 3. we do not have any information that what they are saying is untrue.
so instead of theorcrafting as if its fact that there will be advantages, just wait and find out. but as it stands now, they are saying no advantage so unless you already know the game mechanics personally and havent told any reporters then you also have no idea.
make sense?
You have an ignore list posted in your signature? o.0
To add to what you were saying, an example Ben Lesnick gave long ago. You may own a Starfarer but you won't be flying it day, week or possibly even month one. You will be to earn money to buy component systems, fuel, power cells and possibly AI or player crew contracts to be anywhere near in effective operating condition. You will need to complete certain missions to earn money and trust of some sellers to gain access to some of those components. You may need certain certificates to be able to be allowed to pilot or even command your own large ship. Subsumption and your actions will dictate how quickly you move forward in your career progress.
I fully expect to be stuck in my Freelancer a full month before I can even think about taking my next multi-crew ship out for a spin.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
Suddenly every statement is a speculation...funny how the tides have turned..
Well the first thing you have to bear in mind, is that there are two kinds of speculation, the right kind, and the wrong kind
I find it funny that the people backing the game are also going to allow CR to nickle and dime their play experience.
If you take into account that a majority of backers only paid for a starter package (which you could get for as low as 20 bucks), having a monetization model based on voluntary payments does not sound like "nickle and dime"-ing to me.
Such monetization models work for other games and bring in up to 1.6 billion bucks
"....League makes all its money in-game, with
champions, skins, and portraits available to purchase in the store with
either Influence Points earned from playing games, or Riot Points
purchased with real money. ...."
Lol, comparing a capital ship which cost nearly 1000$, has huge gameplay impact and will probably take months to assemble/buy without the money to a balanced champion like 100s others, where even the newest one takes cca 2-3 gamedays to farm, is available for free the next week and costs cca 10 dollars with free skin...
You're hitting an all-time low with fanboy excuses erillion
have fun...for 850$
Here are the facts:
1. The company has stated multiple times that there will not be advantages from buying these ships 2. We do not have any information on how they will make that possible. 3. we do not have any information that what they are saying is untrue.
so instead of theorcrafting as if its fact that there will be advantages, just wait and find out. but as it stands now, they are saying no advantage so unless you already know the game mechanics personally and havent told any reporters then you also have no idea.
make sense?
You have an ignore list posted in your signature? o.0
To add to what you were saying, an example Ben Lesnick gave long ago. You may own a Starfarer but you won't be flying it day, week or possibly even month one. You will be to earn money to buy component systems, fuel, power cells and possibly AI or player crew contracts to be anywhere near in effective operating condition. You will need to complete certain missions to earn money and trust of some sellers to gain access to some of those components. You may need certain certificates to be able to be allowed to pilot or even command your own large ship. Subsumption and your actions will dictate how quickly you move forward in your career progress.
I fully expect to be stuck in my Freelancer a full month before I can even think about taking my next multi-crew ship out for a spin.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
Suddenly every statement is a speculation...funny how the tides have turned..
Well the first thing you have to bear in mind, is that there are two kinds of speculation, the right kind, and the wrong kind
Yep, my speculation is right, everyone else's is wrong, I completely understand that.
Or, perhaps it's better measured based on the soundness of the premises behind it and the plausibility of it actually occurring.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont know maybe...just maybe....dont state speculations as facts but as well...maybe...speculations?
If people stuck to facts there would never be anything said about this fiasco. Everything Roberts said is now speculation I guess as well. Even the white knights spin it that way.Well they always have when it suited them.
There has never ever in the 5 or 6 years this thing has been going anything ACCURATE given in terms of time frame or ability to deliver one iota of their 'hype' presentation.
Even when they go out of their way to make a schedule and show bugs and how theyre fixing them they were behind day one and the bugs were simply renamed and that name was then eliminated from the report (simplified description of what happened)
Thats another thing you guys dont get when the people MAKING this thing (from the bottom all the way to the tippy top) cant give a SINGLE concrete assertion about the project (other than maybe how much money they have raked in or how many ships they have sold which they are never 100% forthcoming with) then you know its a mess. If five years wasnt enough that is.
I dont know maybe...just maybe....dont state speculations as facts but as well...maybe...speculations?
If people stuck to facts there would never be anything said about this fiasco.....
I am not saying stick to the facts, I am saying state speculations as speculations instead of facts. Its what I wrote, its very clear in my opinion.
Here is an example 'They claim it will not make a difference but I dont see how its going to happen' vs
'You will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
see the difference? even 'you might have to work for hours to get a ship that good' is better than 'you will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
see the difference?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I have a picture of a bridge to sell you. It isn't fully built yet, and we have nowhere to put it, but we promise we'll deliver. That's SC's business model in a nutshell. Pretty hilarious actually.
again,
1. its not a purchase its a donation. 2. frankly unless there is explicitly clear false information in the sales, then its up to the person to not buy it. you dont have to buy it and those consumers are not looking for you to be a justice projector
To hide a sale of digital assets behind a donation (and charge full end product VAT) is illegal and would be tax fraud. Its like saying you get this car for $1 and donate 20k to my funding. This would bring the IRS faster to your office than you like.
CIG is not doing that they are advertising it as a sale, the interface is called shop and there is no sign that you donate anything anywhere. If you can provide me a link where they say that it is a donation then I will write a letter to get my VAT back until then its a digital sale in a pre-order online shop and under full customer protection.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
To hide a sale of digital assets behind a donation (and charge full end product VAT) is illegal and would be tax fraud. Its like saying you get this car for $1 and donate 20k to my funding. This would bring the IRS faster to your office than you like.
CIG is not doing that they are advertising it as a sale, the interface is called shop and there is no sign that you donate anything anywhere. If you can provide me a link where they say that it is a donation then I will write a letter to get my VAT back until then its a digital sale in a pre-order online shop and under full customer protection.
Even Kickstarter funding is considered taxable income, there's no running from taxes as VAT.
Backer and donation is the KS, IndieGogo, etc... terminology often used, because legally it shows to be classified as income.
Or even Patreon, 21% (or more) of your donations go to the VAT hole, while you are donating to a creator the law will see it as you buying and services...
I have a picture of a bridge to sell you. It isn't fully built yet, and we have nowhere to put it, but we promise we'll deliver. That's SC's business model in a nutshell. Pretty hilarious actually.
again,
1. its not a purchase its a donation. 2. frankly unless there is explicitly clear false information in the sales, then its up to the person to not buy it. you dont have to buy it and those consumers are not looking for you to be a justice projector
To hide a sale of digital assets behind a donation (and charge full end product VAT) is illegal
I dont think that is accurate at all. not to mention how you are describing it is weak sauce
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
But as an unfinished game where everything is in such flux and nothing is set in stone, including the comments officially made like the one I off the cuff referenced by CIG Community Engagement Ben Liznick , isn't everything discussed speculative? You can suggest anyone not speculate when the entire content frame in which we can speak is all speculation. The only thing we know is that the game is currently in development.
no.
here is what is not speculation
FACT: They have stated that the game will not provide advantages to people who buy early FACT: we have no idea how they will do that
CONCLUSION: its best to say 'they claim they will not provide advantages but I do not see how that is possible we will have to wait and see
INSTEAD OF: making up random things and acting like they are fact.
CONCLUSION 2: It is physically impossible for there to be NO ADVANTAGE to having multiple ships, some with LTI vs someone who begins with just one single starter ship. You can argue that we do not know the magnitude of the advantage, but even something as simple as having an extensive fleet to choose from is a clear advantage...
How about we stop trying to prove every doubter wrong and just say you believe that the impact of the advantages the $160M (or whatever they have raised) spent so far will be low. Then we wait and see when the game launches who is right?
You can put this in numbers We have $161m and lets be generous and say 1m Accounts that payed for the basic package we take the new price and they payed $60 for it. that calculates down to $101m on extra ship stuff, a value of $1 per hour in a game is realistic and healthy so at the moment as soon as the game goes gold the whole economy is 101m player hours old. Every Ship is its own character class with adjustable subclasses (turrets instead of shield, cargo instead of missles ...etc) and power (20 NPC instead of 20 players). We have 70+ different ship hulls.
Now have fun to balance 70 character classes with subclasses in an 101m hour old economy in a MMO PVP setting (*Note: this is not a MOBA they live through unbalance and have a very different setting)
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Lack of a publisher is why SC barely exists, after this amount of time and money. If the game ever releases in a decent state, get back to me, and maybe I'll change my mind. Until then, it's all concepts and talk without direction.
I couldn't disagree more. There is a reason I find myself playing hole in the wall indie MMOs and enjoying them more than I've enjoyed any AAA MMO in the past 10 years. It's because I don't enjoy playing the same game with different skins over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Deliver me another version of WoW and you might as well have not made a game at all as far as I am concerned. I've already played WoW. I didn't like it that much, even vanilla. Now that I've maxed characters in a couple clones and done the starting process more times than I can count I play another WoW clone and I'm bored from the very start.
If SC development shut down tomorrow and they handed us a half baked buggy 3.0 and and Arena Commander as they are right now I would still rather play it than WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, FF14, GW2 etc. because at least it feels like a different game.
So you'd play something just because it's different? Even though it has hardly any content at all? If you want different MMOs there's dozens of them out there with years worth of content to play through and enough ideas to differentiate them from being a WoW clone.
Yet somehow you say you'd rather play a glorified tech demo with a few hours worth of content.
What I'm saying is if your game isn't different, it's a waste of my time. The WoW model is tired out, useless, and boring. If your game provides me with any degree of fun, it's superior to WoW clones.
Arena Commander is infinitely more fun than it for me, because there are parts where I am actually having fun.
but we have no idea of anything. what fuel, price, 'power cells?' maybe fuel is free? maybe its not? maybe 'effective operating condition' is hitting one button for everyone. That is the point, you are applying a lot of unknowns and seem to suggest they are factual.
I suggest you guys not speculate on what you do not know and maybe instead say 'they claim its going to be fair but I dont see how that is possible' that statement sounds a lot more reasonable
But as an unfinished game where everything is in such flux and nothing is set in stone, including the comments officially made like the one I off the cuff referenced by CIG Community Engagement Ben Liznick , isn't everything discussed speculative? You can suggest anyone not speculate when the entire content frame in which we can speak is all speculation. The only thing we know is that the game is currently in development.
no.
here is what is not speculation
FACT: They have stated that the game will not provide advantages to people who buy early FACT: we have no idea how they will do that
CONCLUSION: its best to say 'they claim they will not provide advantages but I do not see how that is possible we will have to wait and see
INSTEAD OF: making up random things and acting like they are fact.
CONCLUSION 2: It is physically impossible for there to be NO ADVANTAGE to having multiple ships, some with LTI vs someone who begins with just one single starter ship. You can argue that we do not know the magnitude of the advantage, but even something as simple as having an extensive fleet to choose from is a clear advantage...
How about we stop trying to prove every doubter wrong and just say you believe that the impact of the advantages the $160M (or whatever they have raised) spent so far will be low. Then we wait and see when the game launches who is right?
You can put this in numbers We have $161m and lets be generous and say 1m Accounts that payed for the basic package we take the new price and they payed $60 for it. that calculates down to $101m on extra ship stuff, a value of $1 per hour in a game is realistic and healthy so at the moment as soon as the game goes gold the whole economy is 101m player hours old. Every Ship is its own character class with adjustable subclasses (turrets instead of shield, cargo instead of missles ...etc) and power (20 NPC instead of 20 players). We have 70+ different ship hulls.
Now have fun to balance 70 character classes with subclasses in an 101m hour old economy in a MMO PVP setting (*Note: this is not a MOBA they live through unbalance and have a very different setting)
its not really that hard.
you make the stats of all the ships to be EXACTLY the same as a baseline, then you alter numbers.
I think what you guys are overlooking when it comes to an opportunity to be critical is this point.
If what they say is true and the ships will provide no advantage, the only way I can see for them to do that is to make combat like an arcade. Doesnt matter what ship you get into combat is the same. I bet that is the direction its going, I think its going to end up not good because of it
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Here is an example 'They claim it will not make a difference but I dont see how its going to happen' vs
'You will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
I would just like to elaborate a little on this subject.
''They claim it will not make a difference but I don't see how its going to happen'
A lot of this is unnecessary if the aim is to share information, depending on the context.
'but I dont see how its going to happen' - Does the I part of this statement have any relevance on the sharing of information beyond expressing that they have no further information on the first part of the statement or do they have known facts that contradict the possibility of the first part of the statement from being true? Otherwise it is just more speculation. So it means this part of the statement is either irrelevant, a clueless guess, or a precursor to some further factual information.
So unless someone has further facts to share, this first statement should probably be shortened to:
"''They claim it will not make a difference"
Adding 'They claim' is also pretty unnecessary in most contexts if you are obviously trying to share known information provided by CIG then who else would be claiming it? sometime it may feel necessary to clarify that the statement is not your own guess, but that isn't common, most people are able to distinguish between the two quite easily. It reminds me a little like putting IMHO on every post you make.
So in the normal course of events for forum discussions:
"it will not make a difference" or "its not meant to make a difference"
Will either be complete speculation and largely useless in the pursuit of trying to share information and facts, a false statement backed by no known information or it is sufficient to transmit the necessary information of facts known to date.
However
'You will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
is a much simpler statement and will either be complete speculation and largely useless in the pursuit of trying to share information and facts, a false statement backed by no known information or it is sufficient to transmit the necessary information of facts known to date.
Unless of course you are confronted by people who willingly want to obfuscate the flow of information. Then any nonsense goes (like trying to make 'I won't believe it until I see it' as the final, ultimate and only viewpoint that must be applied to the end of all statements in order to qualify it).
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
How about we stop trying to prove every doubter wrong and just say you believe that the impact of the advantages the $160M (or whatever they have raised) spent so far will be low. Then we wait and see when the game launches who is right?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I couldn't disagree more. There is a reason I find myself playing hole in the wall indie MMOs and enjoying them more than I've enjoyed any AAA MMO in the past 10 years. It's because I don't enjoy playing the same game with different skins over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Deliver me another version of WoW and you might as well have not made a game at all as far as I am concerned. I've already played WoW. I didn't like it that much, even vanilla. Now that I've maxed characters in a couple clones and done the starting process more times than I can count I play another WoW clone and I'm bored from the very start.
If SC development shut down tomorrow and they handed us a half baked buggy 3.0 and and Arena Commander as they are right now I would still rather play it than WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, FF14, GW2 etc. because at least it feels like a different game.
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
If you want different MMOs there's dozens of them out there with years worth of content to play through and enough ideas to differentiate them from being a WoW clone.
Yet somehow you say you'd rather play a glorified tech demo with a few hours worth of content.
..Cake..
Aloha Mr Hand !
Or, perhaps it's better measured based on the soundness of the premises behind it and the plausibility of it actually occurring.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Have fun
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Have fun
There has never ever in the 5 or 6 years this thing has been going anything ACCURATE given in terms of time frame or ability to deliver one iota of their 'hype' presentation.
Even when they go out of their way to make a schedule and show bugs and how theyre fixing them they were behind day one and the bugs were simply renamed and that name was then eliminated from the report (simplified description of what happened)
Thats another thing you guys dont get when the people MAKING this thing (from the bottom all the way to the tippy top) cant give a SINGLE concrete assertion about the project (other than maybe how much money they have raked in or how many ships they have sold which they are never 100% forthcoming with) then you know its a mess. If five years wasnt enough that is.
Here is an example
'They claim it will not make a difference but I dont see how its going to happen'
vs
'You will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
see the difference? even 'you might have to work for hours to get a ship that good' is better than 'you will have to work for hours to get a ship that good' see the difference?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
This would bring the IRS faster to your office than you like.
CIG is not doing that they are advertising it as a sale, the interface is called shop and there is no sign that you donate anything anywhere. If you can provide me a link where they say that it is a donation then I will write a letter to get my VAT back until then its a digital sale in a pre-order online shop and under full customer protection.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Backer and donation is the KS, IndieGogo, etc... terminology often used, because legally it shows to be classified as income.
Or even Patreon, 21% (or more) of your donations go to the VAT hole, while you are donating to a creator the law will see it as you buying and services...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
We have $161m and lets be generous and say 1m Accounts that payed for the basic package we take the new price and they payed $60 for it.
that calculates down to $101m on extra ship stuff, a value of $1 per hour in a game is realistic and healthy so at the moment as soon as the game goes gold the whole economy is 101m player hours old.
Every Ship is its own character class with adjustable subclasses (turrets instead of shield, cargo instead of missles ...etc) and power (20 NPC instead of 20 players). We have 70+ different ship hulls.
Now have fun to balance 70 character classes with subclasses in an 101m hour old economy in a MMO PVP setting
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Arena Commander is infinitely more fun than it for me, because there are parts where I am actually having fun.
you make the stats of all the ships to be EXACTLY the same as a baseline, then you alter numbers.
I think what you guys are overlooking when it comes to an opportunity to be critical is this point.
If what they say is true and the ships will provide no advantage, the only way I can see for them to do that is to make combat like an arcade. Doesnt matter what ship you get into combat is the same. I bet that is the direction its going, I think its going to end up not good because of it
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
''They claim it will not make a difference but I don't see how its going to happen'
A lot of this is unnecessary if the aim is to share information, depending on the context.
'but I dont see how its going to happen' - Does the I part of this statement have any relevance on the sharing of information beyond expressing that they have no further information on the first part of the statement or do they have known facts that contradict the possibility of the first part of the statement from being true? Otherwise it is just more speculation. So it means this part of the statement is either irrelevant, a clueless guess, or a precursor to some further factual information.
So unless someone has further facts to share, this first statement should probably be shortened to:
"''They claim it will not make a difference"
Adding 'They claim' is also pretty unnecessary in most contexts if you are obviously trying to share known information provided by CIG then who else would be claiming it? sometime it may feel necessary to clarify that the statement is not your own guess, but that isn't common, most people are able to distinguish between the two quite easily. It reminds me a little like putting IMHO on every post you make.
So in the normal course of events for forum discussions:
"it will not make a difference"
or
"its not meant to make a difference"
Will either be complete speculation and largely useless in the pursuit of trying to share information and facts, a false statement backed by no known information or it is sufficient to transmit the necessary information of facts known to date.
However
'You will have to work for hours to get a ship that good'
is a much simpler statement and will either be complete speculation and largely useless in the pursuit of trying to share information and facts, a false statement backed by no known information or it is sufficient to transmit the necessary information of facts known to date.
Unless of course you are confronted by people who willingly want to obfuscate the flow of information. Then any nonsense goes (like trying to make 'I won't believe it until I see it' as the final, ultimate and only viewpoint that must be applied to the end of all statements in order to qualify it).