I've always seen MMOs as games where you have influence for how difficult the game is. The more you spend time for playing, the easier the game becomes. You can have your ass delivered at first, but doing some stuff in game (i.e. grinding) you can ease the pain and try again. This means in practice, that skilled players can advance more quickly, but everyone has a chance as long as they're willing to play long enough.
Now, as a genre where you're suppose to play a long time, i see high difficulty only as a good thing, and most of the players have lots of stuff to do in game before they run out of content. Personally, i would never pay a monthly fee for a few weeks long game ending up a content drought for several months. I rather spend that time trying to advance as well as i can even if i can never make it to the final boss or raid.
The most difficult games i've ever played are from 80's (Shadow of the Beast, Chaos Strikes Back) so they really have to offer me something special to impress me.
We might, but too much extra difficulty would never fly, the direction has been easymode for so long children that are now in their twenties have been brought up on easymode.
You might as well try to make a keyboard and mouse the default accessories for consoles, out goes the controller. Once you have been brought up on something it nigh impossible to change.
Define difficult because I have always said, there is no hard in a video game. You can or you can't. It's that simple. They can bury the can in 99 or 99 thousand ways to not do it, turn it in to the game of don't do stuff. They can make it take an eternity through artificial gating but in the end you can or you can't. You know how or you don't and once you know how, it always works.
It's a binary limitation. On, off, can, can't. So when developers spout 'hard' in a video game it's just a selling point. You can't make a light bulb a radio.
MMOs are as difficult as the player makes them. Perhaps they should really up the "drop chance" if you are fighting monsters above your level.
That isn't exactly true. You can make things harder, like the time I leveled up a character to max level in starting gear in GW2 and you certainly can pull in many mobs but there is a limit to what you can do.
Also, MMOs tend to punish you for doing harder stuff. Time spent killing harder mobs Vs time spent killing normal mobs Vs time spent killing easy mobs have the Risk Vs Reward all wrong. Killing easy mobs and speedrunning easy quests is the fastest way to level in a modern MMO.
Not that long ago you still earned most XP and loot by doing harder dungeons instead of easy open world events but the last 10 years they actually punish you for doing anything that requires even the slightest player skill besides being fast.
Just increasing the drop rate is not nearly enough to persuade people to actually bother about a challenge.1 hour playing hard content should reward both better drops and more XP then 1 hour playing easy content assuming you don't die in either case (dying does even with zero death penalty slow you down after all).
In fact even if the chance to get rare loot would increase by 25% for hard content you will kill several times the easy enemies still meaning you will earn far more on the easy stuff. Now, a using different loot tables with different loot depending on the difficulty would be another thing, but that is maybe what you meant? If you only could get the good stuff from hard fights people would actually bother.
We could argue if hard or easy is most fun but it matters surprisingly little for people will still go for the fastest way to the endgame even if that mean doing less fun content. MMOs should reward competence, not punish it.
We are talking about games here. Games are for some quick fun. If i want real challenges, i go solve work related technical problems.
The best pve games give the illusion of challenges, not real ones.
Yeah some games are for quick fun. TF2, WoT, MOBA's are all great for a quick session where you can jump in and have a laugh but not all games have to be the same.
There's nothing wrong with a game that makes you stop and think and maybe even punishes you if you get it wrong. The idea that all games should be about quick fun is too limiting. People are different and they want different things from games. Some people want to be challenged by the game content and there's nothing wrong with that.
One of the biggest problems with modern games is the lack of challenge. I spent months, literally months, playing Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss. That was one brutal bastard of a game but it still stands out as one of the best games I've ever played 25 years later. They really don't make them like they used to.
Of course not. We are talking about games here. There is nothing wrong with any design because people don't have to play them.
Personally, again, i don't go to video games for "challenges". I have real ones in the real world. But if others want to feel good about beating virtual made-up challenges, it is their prerogative.
I wanted difficult when I started on Rallos Zek on March 21 1999. This is why chose PvE/PvP MMO's. It's why I liked Everquest because I preferred consequences when dying. This is why I played on the PvP servers in Wurm Online. I didn't do it just for PvP, I did it because it adds an extra layer of challenge onto a game that already has some challenge. Anyway, I never play a MMO and wish there wasn't more challenge. Usually I'll complain about XYZ, but challenge is one thing I love to see. There's usually not enough. I especially like the challenge brings players to together to solve probelms each player knows wells because they've been hurr by it before.
When I speak to challegne here, I largely speak to consequences. This isn't a challenge like Tetris or an IQ test. This is like climbing a cliff. If you fall, you lose a lot. That's the kind of challenge I like in games. BUT I always wnat to come back. I don't like peramnent death, although I tried it in Diablo 2. It's true PvP in MMO's can be tactical and challenging like Tetris or similar, but it can also have a lot of consequences. It makes everything more dangerous. That's what I like.
I had an experience in Wurm Online which I'll use as an example of something I favor. I was in a village and we were being challenged by some enemies. This occured over a coulpe weeks. This galvanized us and made it more important to work together. This kind of challgen is veyr good. Howeverr, our enemy ended up to be more than we could handle. Our village was destroyed and disbanded. It was brutal, but this is exactly what I look for in a PvP MMO. It's painful sometimes. So just as danger can galvanize and increase your moral, it can also take and make you feel pain. This is part of the give and take. If you choose to play an MMO with PvP or consequences, you do so knowing these things can ahppen. Nobody should lightly play an MMO like this without understanding the pain they'll feel.
I've had homes destroyed, items looted and been griefed repeatedly. It hurts sometimes. You can lose months of effort. I'm not going to lie. This is part of the experience. Not everybody is understandably willing to get deeply into it. I don't hold it against people, but I like what I like and can strongly disagree, especially if it's the game or server I want to play being threatened by those who disagree. In that case, I can be nasty, and use "carebear" insults.
All this can equally apply to PvE. I find PvP USUALLY adds more. This isn't always true. Some PvPers ONLY want PvP and nothing else. They really just want FPS-style PvP. I'm different. I like RPGs. I like longterm consequences. I like progression. In my experience, PvP is somewhat at odds with PvE. This is why it's so rare for players like me to exist. It's hard to find someone who blends both together without butchering the other. Why butcher? To reduce the pain of failure. For PvE players, PvP is a chaotic risky addon, so they usually greatly restrict it. For PvP players, PvE is too much grind and they usually try to restrict what can be lost or how much has to be gained to PvP. I'm different because I want both except without the heavy restrictions both sides usually ask for. And I think the major reason is I tolerate painful losses. I don't just tolerate it either, I actually want it as a distinct possibility. What fun is a MMO if you can never lose big? That's a themepark. Being able to lose is what makes it "real."
Sorry for the long post. It's hard to put this in one post.
In a word: Yes, at least it would have staying power with me.
A lot of MMOs are fun to begin with, it's new. As the sheen wears off if it's just "run in and press all the things until everything is dead" then it will get dull for me quick. Having to actually make decisions to survive encounters is a huge selling point for me.
The OP started playing with Vanilla WoW so his idea of difficulty would be vanilla WoW which was not difficult at all if you came from older games like UO, Everquest or AC , DAoC or even FFXI.
I think you should try Project 1999 OP. I see you on these forums talking about difficult games and starting threads about how you want games to offer a better community. Come and play Project 1999.
Have a look at how it can look with good textures and honestly try it because your whole view on this genre will become richer as a result.
You know for someone who spends so much time trying to find the things you talk about in your threads you should try Everquest Project 1999 so you can learn about immersion and community. The community is fantastic . Be brave and play it and don't be a snob about the graphics.
I can help you if you really want to play and have some questions. I will be ready to help you set it up.
I suggest you also read up about the game because there is a lot to learn. If you do decide I am kinda envious as you will get to experience the game as a new player and that is a splendid thing.
I can help you if you really want to play and have some questions. I will be ready to help you set it up.
I suggest you also read up about the game because there is a lot to learn. If you do decide I am kinda envious as you will get to experience the game as a new player and that is a splendid thing.
Thanks so much Cheyane, I'll be home later to look deeper
I will answer the OP question this way, If you woud compare drinking beer to playing mmo's , the more beer you drink the less you play mmo's. Your Welcome.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Bingo ! I believe in this statement. It takes extreme talent to reach in the minds of players and strike a good balance, with immersive yet not tedious.
People often talk about new ideas, I think the industry is running out of them. However immersive vs. tedious has all room in the world for improvement
Speed of mounts to get the player where he needs to be is somewhat of a good example, just off the top of my head.
MMOs are as difficult as the player makes them. Perhaps they should really up the "drop chance" if you are fighting monsters above your level.
That isn't exactly true. You can make things harder, like the time I leveled up a character to max level in starting gear in GW2 and you certainly can pull in many mobs but there is a limit to what you can do.
Also, MMOs tend to punish you for doing harder stuff. Time spent killing harder mobs Vs time spent killing normal mobs Vs time spent killing easy mobs have the Risk Vs Reward all wrong. Killing easy mobs and speedrunning easy quests is the fastest way to level in a modern MMO.
Not that long ago you still earned most XP and loot by doing harder dungeons instead of easy open world events but the last 10 years they actually punish you for doing anything that requires even the slightest player skill besides being fast.
Just increasing the drop rate is not nearly enough to persuade people to actually bother about a challenge.1 hour playing hard content should reward both better drops and more XP then 1 hour playing easy content assuming you don't die in either case (dying does even with zero death penalty slow you down after all).
In fact even if the chance to get rare loot would increase by 25% for hard content you will kill several times the easy enemies still meaning you will earn far more on the easy stuff. Now, a using different loot tables with different loot depending on the difficulty would be another thing, but that is maybe what you meant? If you only could get the good stuff from hard fights people would actually bother.
We could argue if hard or easy is most fun but it matters surprisingly little for people will still go for the fastest way to the endgame even if that mean doing less fun content. MMOs should reward competence, not punish it.
MMOs have always rewarded efficiency, only the methods to achieve it have changed.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We are talking about games here. Games are for some quick fun. If i want real challenges, i go solve work related technical problems.
The best pve games give the illusion of challenges, not real ones.
Yeah no. Human beings are build to desire challenge. That is why would prefer a video game over say mowing a long.
Mowing a lawn offers a sense of progress. Every time you make another pass you see another big strip of grass gone until eventually there is none left. Same concept with shoveling snow, or digging a hole.
So why would we choose a video game over any of these past times. Simple manual labor certainly is more productive than gaming in most instances and they both offer us a sense of progress.
Why would most people rather play or watch sports, which are ultimately as meaningless as video games, than sit there and mow a lawn or watch someone mow a lawn?
Most video games engage the brain. Good games offer challenge. This is the same reason most people want to race to endgame. Because endgame content offers the most challenge.
Most video games engage the brain. Good games offer challenge. This is the same reason most people want to race to endgame. Because endgame content offers the most challenge.
nah .. most endgames are trivial. Just grind. People race to endgame because they want to show off their epleen loot .. and that is fun for them.
If most people want a challenge, there will be more people playing Diablo 3 hardcore than softcore. There will be more people playing sports than watching sports. There will be more people solving orbital trajectory maths than using a joystick to control a totally unrealistic space ship.
While I will agree most endgames only offer a trivial challenge it is still a challenge of greater magnitude then "Can you deliver a letter for me?" "Can you kill 10 goblins?" It's a challenge level lowered to a level as to not exclude anyone. Then again though, the most popular multiplayer games pit you directly against other players with no stat advantage (LoL, SC/SC2, COD, Halo, TF2 etc.) so it's really on the MMO industry and single player games that have decided to go with "No player left behind" and they've suffered greatly for it.
Diablo 3 Hardcore Mode is actually less challenging in many ways. Anyone who's ever played a game with permadeath or worked for an achievement where you complete X without dying knows that the best way to proceed is with extreme caution / risk aversion. You'll do content a few levels lower than you, avoid dungeons where you could get by with just grinding mobs etc. You aren't going to go running through content 5 levels higher than you and pulling elites to see if you can take them like I often do in regular playthroughs. Because if you fail then you face the tedium of rebuilding, while in a regular playthrough you can attempt the same challenge again.
The thing is, because you are a gamer I know that you do desire some level of challenge. Otherwise you would be mowing a lawn. It's just that for some reason, you desire a level a challenge far lower than what many people do. While I have my own hypothesis as to why I'll leave them to your imagination.
When it comes to difficulty, I tend to focus more on the other end of the spectrum as in is it too easy? If I play something and don't have to focus on what I am doing or what skills I am using, I tend to get bored and drop it for being too easy.
I've found most games to have a decent degree of difficulty, some more so than others. Especially when group play is involved. I might perform my role perfectly, but the others do not so we fail and vice versa.
I remember my guild in EQ on earth raid I think it was, the enchanters couldn't keep the mobs mezzed at the same time so we could kill them all together at the end. Shouldn't be too hard, but it was for most of them. Hell, I was 2 boxing at the time, playing a friend's enchanter which I barely played doing a better job than the officers and said so, which got me kicked out (temporarily) lol.
Or in early WoW, I was trying to get the guild to do a staggered healing rotation on some boss, from BWL maybe and they had no clue what I was talking about.
Just because someone may personally have mastered a game or several and find others easy, doesn't mean they aren't difficult.
Which is why I tend to look at, do I have to pay attention and am I having fun? hehe.
Nope at my age now i play for fun only. And if they give away max lvl boost i take them. Today's mmo's to me have way to much junk in them. I only care about questing and pve solo content. I look for older games only now.
That isn't exactly true. You can make things harder, like the time I leveled up a character to max level in starting gear in GW2 and you certainly can pull in many mobs but there is a limit to what you can do.
Also, MMOs tend to punish you for doing harder stuff. Time spent killing harder mobs Vs time spent killing normal mobs Vs time spent killing easy mobs have the Risk Vs Reward all wrong. Killing easy mobs and speedrunning easy quests is the fastest way to level in a modern MMO.
Not that long ago you still earned most XP and loot by doing harder dungeons instead of easy open world events but the last 10 years they actually punish you for doing anything that requires even the slightest player skill besides being fast.
Just increasing the drop rate is not nearly enough to persuade people to actually bother about a challenge.1 hour playing hard content should reward both better drops and more XP then 1 hour playing easy content assuming you don't die in either case (dying does even with zero death penalty slow you down after all).
In fact even if the chance to get rare loot would increase by 25% for hard content you will kill several times the easy enemies still meaning you will earn far more on the easy stuff. Now, a using different loot tables with different loot depending on the difficulty would be another thing, but that is maybe what you meant? If you only could get the good stuff from hard fights people would actually bother.
We could argue if hard or easy is most fun but it matters surprisingly little for people will still go for the fastest way to the endgame even if that mean doing less fun content. MMOs should reward competence, not punish it.
MMOs have always rewarded efficiency, only the methods to achieve it have changed.
Yes, but they used to reward you for doing the harder stuff as well, now it doesn't anymore until you hit the endgame.
MMOs should certainly reward you for being able to run any content more efficient and they do, you get more done in a shorter while which means more loot and XP in the same time. They still need to consider how much reward a player get for playing something an hour and balance that against how hard it is.
Why bother having anything besides the easiest soloquests at all otherwise when it is several times as rewarding doing them as anything else?
You could in fact do a game that is a singleplayer game until you have maxed out your level and make it into a MMO after that if fast and easdy is all you go for, that way you could at least tell a better story for your characters background.
As soon as you hity the endgame the map changes completelly, doing quests get pointless rather soon and suddenly time spent in the hardest content pays out if you are competent enough to beat it, I just don't see why it can't be so for the entire game? It gives the players a rather confusing lession.
Nope at my age now i play for fun only. And if they give away max lvl boost i take them. Today's mmo's to me have way to much junk in them. I only care about questing and pve solo content. I look for older games only now.
Question: Would you rather have a game with no levels whatsoever then?
It is a rather interesting question, people were clearly against that kind of thing a few years back but more and more people want max level boost and many actually pay rather much to get those so it is entirely possible that there is room for the market for a game like that today...
Do you like leveling and level alts but just want a character for the endgame or do you think leveling is a bother?
It takes a certain amount of determination to get through repetitive and competitive tasks. It can be like banging your head against the wall over and over again. It may not require much intelligence, but it takes a certain amount of will to get through. It's like all those old fraternity initiations and things of that nature that are now being abolished as the new generations don't accept them and deem them a waste of time or abusive. In the time of games like UO and EQ players who could get through these games and succeed in them were looked at with some measure of respect. In this day and age, I don't think that type of activity is respected as much due to the current emphasis on being intelligent, disciplined, and mature about everything. Who would have ever thought a video game which is made for fun and to escape such things would be invaded so badly by morals and rationality.
We are talking about games here. Games are for some quick fun. If i want real challenges, i go solve work related technical problems.
The best pve games give the illusion of challenges, not real ones.
Yeah no. Human beings are build to desire challenge. That is why would prefer a video game over say mowing a long.
Mowing a lawn offers a sense of progress. Every time you make another pass you see another big strip of grass gone until eventually there is none left. Same concept with shoveling snow, or digging a hole.
So why would we choose a video game over any of these past times. Simple manual labor certainly is more productive than gaming in most instances and they both offer us a sense of progress.
Why would most people rather play or watch sports, which are ultimately as meaningless as video games, than sit there and mow a lawn or watch someone mow a lawn?
Most video games engage the brain. Good games offer challenge. This is the same reason most people want to race to endgame. Because endgame content offers the most challenge.
I prefer mowing the lawn these days.
But then again I mined ore for 2.5 years in EVE recently, so there's that.
I need something to play while I watch TV, a major consideration vs a challenge.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you want to ramp up the difficulty in MMOs just PVP.
And that should tell you something about why MMO PVE is never difficult. What passes for difficulty there is just programmed tricks that once learned, reduce their initial difficulty by several orders of magnitude. That plus giving bosses a gazillion hit points to make the fight last longer and give you more chances to screw up your choreographed conditioned response after you learn the fight.
Even if they had more genuine difficulty through vastly improved AI, no, I would not want that all the time just like I don't want to do anything over and over again.
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Comments
Now, as a genre where you're suppose to play a long time, i see high difficulty only as a good thing, and most of the players have lots of stuff to do in game before they run out of content. Personally, i would never pay a monthly fee for a few weeks long game ending up a content drought for several months. I rather spend that time trying to advance as well as i can even if i can never make it to the final boss or raid.
The most difficult games i've ever played are from 80's (Shadow of the Beast, Chaos Strikes Back) so they really have to offer me something special to impress me.
You might as well try to make a keyboard and mouse the default accessories for consoles, out goes the controller. Once you have been brought up on something it nigh impossible to change.
It's a binary limitation. On, off, can, can't. So when developers spout 'hard' in a video game it's just a selling point. You can't make a light bulb a radio.
Other type of game I can tolerate.
Also, MMOs tend to punish you for doing harder stuff. Time spent killing harder mobs Vs time spent killing normal mobs Vs time spent killing easy mobs have the Risk Vs Reward all wrong. Killing easy mobs and speedrunning easy quests is the fastest way to level in a modern MMO.
Not that long ago you still earned most XP and loot by doing harder dungeons instead of easy open world events but the last 10 years they actually punish you for doing anything that requires even the slightest player skill besides being fast.
Just increasing the drop rate is not nearly enough to persuade people to actually bother about a challenge.1 hour playing hard content should reward both better drops and more XP then 1 hour playing easy content assuming you don't die in either case (dying does even with zero death penalty slow you down after all).
In fact even if the chance to get rare loot would increase by 25% for hard content you will kill several times the easy enemies still meaning you will earn far more on the easy stuff. Now, a using different loot tables with different loot depending on the difficulty would be another thing, but that is maybe what you meant? If you only could get the good stuff from hard fights people would actually bother.
We could argue if hard or easy is most fun but it matters surprisingly little for people will still go for the fastest way to the endgame even if that mean doing less fun content. MMOs should reward competence, not punish it.
Personally, again, i don't go to video games for "challenges". I have real ones in the real world. But if others want to feel good about beating virtual made-up challenges, it is their prerogative.
When I speak to challegne here, I largely speak to consequences. This isn't a challenge like Tetris or an IQ test. This is like climbing a cliff. If you fall, you lose a lot. That's the kind of challenge I like in games. BUT I always wnat to come back. I don't like peramnent death, although I tried it in Diablo 2. It's true PvP in MMO's can be tactical and challenging like Tetris or similar, but it can also have a lot of consequences. It makes everything more dangerous. That's what I like.
I had an experience in Wurm Online which I'll use as an example of something I favor. I was in a village and we were being challenged by some enemies. This occured over a coulpe weeks. This galvanized us and made it more important to work together. This kind of challgen is veyr good. Howeverr, our enemy ended up to be more than we could handle. Our village was destroyed and disbanded. It was brutal, but this is exactly what I look for in a PvP MMO. It's painful sometimes. So just as danger can galvanize and increase your moral, it can also take and make you feel pain. This is part of the give and take. If you choose to play an MMO with PvP or consequences, you do so knowing these things can ahppen. Nobody should lightly play an MMO like this without understanding the pain they'll feel.
I've had homes destroyed, items looted and been griefed repeatedly. It hurts sometimes. You can lose months of effort. I'm not going to lie. This is part of the experience. Not everybody is understandably willing to get deeply into it. I don't hold it against people, but I like what I like and can strongly disagree, especially if it's the game or server I want to play being threatened by those who disagree. In that case, I can be nasty, and use "carebear" insults.
All this can equally apply to PvE. I find PvP USUALLY adds more. This isn't always true. Some PvPers ONLY want PvP and nothing else. They really just want FPS-style PvP. I'm different. I like RPGs. I like longterm consequences. I like progression. In my experience, PvP is somewhat at odds with PvE. This is why it's so rare for players like me to exist. It's hard to find someone who blends both together without butchering the other. Why butcher? To reduce the pain of failure. For PvE players, PvP is a chaotic risky addon, so they usually greatly restrict it. For PvP players, PvE is too much grind and they usually try to restrict what can be lost or how much has to be gained to PvP. I'm different because I want both except without the heavy restrictions both sides usually ask for. And I think the major reason is I tolerate painful losses. I don't just tolerate it either, I actually want it as a distinct possibility. What fun is a MMO if you can never lose big? That's a themepark. Being able to lose is what makes it "real."
Sorry for the long post. It's hard to put this in one post.
A lot of MMOs are fun to begin with, it's new. As the sheen wears off if it's just "run in and press all the things until everything is dead" then it will get dull for me quick. Having to actually make decisions to survive encounters is a huge selling point for me.
I think you should try Project 1999 OP. I see you on these forums talking about difficult games and starting threads about how you want games to offer a better community. Come and play Project 1999.
Have a look at how it can look with good textures and honestly try it because your whole view on this genre will become richer as a result.
You know for someone who spends so much time trying to find the things you talk about in your threads you should try Everquest Project 1999 so you can learn about immersion and community. The community is fantastic . Be brave and play it and don't be a snob about the graphics.
People have been nice to me despite my controversial postings. I'll try and clean up my act to conform a little more.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651
https://wiki.project1999.com/Main_Page
I can help you if you really want to play and have some questions. I will be ready to help you set it up.
I suggest you also read up about the game because there is a lot to learn. If you do decide I am kinda envious as you will get to experience the game as a new player and that is a splendid thing.
Thanks so much Cheyane,
I'll be home later to look deeper
MAGA
Bingo !
I believe in this statement. It takes extreme talent to reach in the minds of players and strike a good balance, with immersive yet not tedious.
People often talk about new ideas, I think the industry is running out of them. However immersive vs. tedious has all room in the world for improvement
Speed of mounts to get the player where he needs to be is somewhat of a good example, just off the top of my head.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Mowing a lawn offers a sense of progress. Every time you make another pass you see another big strip of grass gone until eventually there is none left. Same concept with shoveling snow, or digging a hole.
So why would we choose a video game over any of these past times. Simple manual labor certainly is more productive than gaming in most instances and they both offer us a sense of progress.
Why would most people rather play or watch sports, which are ultimately as meaningless as video games, than sit there and mow a lawn or watch someone mow a lawn?
Most video games engage the brain. Good games offer challenge. This is the same reason most people want to race to endgame. Because endgame content offers the most challenge.
If most people want a challenge, there will be more people playing Diablo 3 hardcore than softcore. There will be more people playing sports than watching sports. There will be more people solving orbital trajectory maths than using a joystick to control a totally unrealistic space ship.
Diablo 3 Hardcore Mode is actually less challenging in many ways. Anyone who's ever played a game with permadeath or worked for an achievement where you complete X without dying knows that the best way to proceed is with extreme caution / risk aversion. You'll do content a few levels lower than you, avoid dungeons where you could get by with just grinding mobs etc. You aren't going to go running through content 5 levels higher than you and pulling elites to see if you can take them like I often do in regular playthroughs. Because if you fail then you face the tedium of rebuilding, while in a regular playthrough you can attempt the same challenge again.
The thing is, because you are a gamer I know that you do desire some level of challenge. Otherwise you would be mowing a lawn. It's just that for some reason, you desire a level a challenge far lower than what many people do. While I have my own hypothesis as to why I'll leave them to your imagination.
I've found most games to have a decent degree of difficulty, some more so than others. Especially when group play is involved. I might perform my role perfectly, but the others do not so we fail and vice versa.
I remember my guild in EQ on earth raid I think it was, the enchanters couldn't keep the mobs mezzed at the same time so we could kill them all together at the end. Shouldn't be too hard, but it was for most of them. Hell, I was 2 boxing at the time, playing a friend's enchanter which I barely played doing a better job than the officers and said so, which got me kicked out (temporarily) lol.
Or in early WoW, I was trying to get the guild to do a staggered healing rotation on some boss, from BWL maybe and they had no clue what I was talking about.
Just because someone may personally have mastered a game or several and find others easy, doesn't mean they aren't difficult.
Which is why I tend to look at, do I have to pay attention and am I having fun? hehe.
MMOs should certainly reward you for being able to run any content more efficient and they do, you get more done in a shorter while which means more loot and XP in the same time. They still need to consider how much reward a player get for playing something an hour and balance that against how hard it is.
Why bother having anything besides the easiest soloquests at all otherwise when it is several times as rewarding doing them as anything else?
You could in fact do a game that is a singleplayer game until you have maxed out your level and make it into a MMO after that if fast and easdy is all you go for, that way you could at least tell a better story for your characters background.
As soon as you hity the endgame the map changes completelly, doing quests get pointless rather soon and suddenly time spent in the hardest content pays out if you are competent enough to beat it, I just don't see why it can't be so for the entire game? It gives the players a rather confusing lession.
It is a rather interesting question, people were clearly against that kind of thing a few years back but more and more people want max level boost and many actually pay rather much to get those so it is entirely possible that there is room for the market for a game like that today...
Do you like leveling and level alts but just want a character for the endgame or do you think leveling is a bother?
But then again I mined ore for 2.5 years in EVE recently, so there's that.
I need something to play while I watch TV, a major consideration vs a challenge.
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And that should tell you something about why MMO PVE is never difficult. What passes for difficulty there is just programmed tricks that once learned, reduce their initial difficulty by several orders of magnitude. That plus giving bosses a gazillion hit points to make the fight last longer and give you more chances to screw up your choreographed conditioned response after you learn the fight.
Even if they had more genuine difficulty through vastly improved AI, no, I would not want that all the time just like I don't want to do anything over and over again.
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