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Activision Granted Patent that Pairs Players to Increase Microtransaction Purchases - General News

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    SBFord said:
    You know, it's one thing that we "understand" we're being manipulated by microtransactions, but it's a whole 'nother ballgame when we see it so blatantly placed before our eyes in cold black and white. 

    Hopefully, this will turn the tide. I wonder what, if any, impact recent legal maneuvers overseas with regard to loot chest odds and so forth will have on this which obviously wasn't present in 2015?

    Of course, we also have to be careful in assuming they'll actually use the patented process. It's possible that things have progressed beyond its capabilities over 2 years after filing.
    Just another step from the now common method of game broadcast announcements that games like Neverwinter use when someone gets lucky with a loot box prize.

    What's next? Walmart Online: The Game
    I have the Walmart app installed on my iPhone. It's awesome and they don't lie about trying to sell me stuff. They're sort of like a little baby Amazon, but just for retail stuff.

    So this thing, where a company directly manipulates its users into spending more. Is there precedence in other industries one way or another that would indicate whether this will shake anything legally? It seems odd to be granted a patent for something illegal, but maybe that kind of review isn't part of the process.

    Industries can't collude to fix prices right? They get in trouble for that scale of manipulation, except where there are vast exceptions to the rule. So some industries are held to that standard.

    There are some other very troubling questions that started popping up. Activision doesn't just have the technology to do it. I think we can be pretty sure they're already doing it. They've field tested the concept and know it works or they wouldn't have patented it. So now what leverage does that give them in the industry over every single other publisher?

    Activision isn't the only one who's discovered and doing this. This isn't gold that someone just found one day and patented the next. Patenting IP takes planning and intent and research and development. So if they've been working on this the rest of the industry, or some parts of it must have been too, right? Am I on track here or is that not plausible?

    Next, how long has Activision been doing this? In what games? Have they been implementing these sorts of algorithms in LFR and public matching across their other titles? How about non-Blizzard IPs with public matchmaking? What other publishers have been doing this and for how long? Where else do they implement these sorts of heuristics?

    Does it matter? Does it affect what we're going to play? Who knows what games and pubs have been manipulating us and for how long. We've been paying for progression for so long in online games now, who knows.
    Trying to create a desire to purchase is certainly not a new thing - it's what advertising is all about after all. In ESO for example, they've recently had 2 loot box give away periods where you got one per day just for logging in. That's obviously a test to see if sales increase especially from those who never buy them (didn't work with me BTW - I still have never bought one lol) by giving a few for free.

    What I find most disturbing about this is that it's a scheme to manipulate a grouping system that is believed to be all about an honest queue where if you're the first in you'll be the first one to be grouped. With their patented system they would pervert that in order to accomplish their marketing goal.

    And yes, this could already be happening in many games without our knowledge for this or any other reason.
    Sovrath[Deleted User]MadFrenchieConstantineMerusGdemamiKalebGraysonAvarix
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,765
    edited October 2017
    They have teams of psychiatrists understanding your behavior, your mind, they need to get inside of your head. That's when you get the reaaalz profits.

    People spend too much time shaming Indie games and devs... O.o
    Gdemami
  • kjohiokjohio Member UncommonPosts: 35
    A fool and his money are soon parted
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I found the title or one of many.,
    "Computer science and human behavior"
    Also on the non obviousness legal part of a patent i am certain everyone has heard the phrase
    "keeping up with the Jones".

    There have been a plethora of studies done on human behavior and virtual purchases,so i would think it rather obvious that to ANY of the people training in these fields this would be such an obvious tactic there is no way this patent should have been allowed.

    I would assume what the R&D team really did was spend the last two years scouring for any mention anywhere of this SPECIFIC tactic.If someone else even mentioned it publicly,they have a year to file for it's patent.I suspect someone out there is going to go after this patent's claim..

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    A poster above mentioned "patent anything".

    Gene Simmons is trying to patent the devil horns hand gesture and paid 275 bucks to the US courts.I often wonder if anyone even traces these small amounts of money,i bet it goes directly into someone's pocket.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • perrin82perrin82 Member UncommonPosts: 285

    Wizardry said:

    I will first copy/paste,i hope people can see the problem before i spell it out.



    [UPDATE] In a statement, Activision confirmed that this patent was only "exploratory," and such a system has not been used in any games.



    "This was an exploratory patent filed in 2015 by an R&D team working independently from our game studios. It has not been implemented in-game," a spokesperson for Activision said.



    Additionally, Bungie community manager David "Deej" Dague confirmed on Twitter, "None of this functionality appears in Destiny."





    Keywords....working independently.



    So how does an independent research and development team file for a patent on behalf of Activision,while Activision is claiming they are not of the same entity?



    You see this is the kind of crap devs/publishers are trying to pull on us.Furthermore,how could a Patent be issued based on something NOT fully disclosed and only meant to be EXPLORED?How would they even word it and how did the governing agency/court decide an exploratory idea is fair game for a patent?



    Furthermore on the account of "non-obvious",to me this is a very obvious tactic,so to someone skilled in the field of human manipulation or even simple marketing or whatever skilled technician you want to label as here could think of this.SO how did it get a patent if really this is a very obvious tactic?I am assuming there is no official title given any person with this kind of skill,therefore nobody to relate the non obvious to.



    A lot of times I disagree with you Wizardry, but this is spot on. As a previous poster said most gamers aren't active on these forums and thus will not notice, but these obvious micro transactions and blocks of content will ensure I will not purchase these games.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited October 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    They have teams of psychiatrists understanding your behavior, your mind, they need to get inside of your head. That's when you get the reaaalz profits.

    People spend too much time shaming Indie games and devs... O.o
    That's the reason the whole "personal responsibility" thing is, many times, applied in a misguided manner these days.  These companies have the resources to utilize such psychology to affect your perception of products and their worth.

    You look up things like the reason marijuana was ever made illegal in the first place, and you realize that marketing has a much more profound effect on the public perception than you first believed possible.  You look up things like why we have to shove aluminum under our armpits on a daily basis, and you learn you're not immune no matter how savvy you may think you are about the tricks of marketing.
    Gdemami

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  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,097
    I think it will only get better when games are regulated(and taxed) for their gambling side, and when it this kind of spending is seen for the addiction it is, and maybe by some miracle they might restrict it. But who am I kidding XD
    JamesGoblin
  • DaranarDaranar Member UncommonPosts: 392

    SBFord said:

    You know, it's one thing that we "understand" we're being manipulated by microtransactions, but it's a whole 'nother ballgame when we see it so blatantly placed before our eyes in cold black and white. 

    Hopefully, this will turn the tide. I wonder what, if any, impact recent legal maneuvers overseas with regard to loot chest odds and so forth will have on this which obviously wasn't present in 2015?

    Of course, we also have to be careful in assuming they'll actually use the patented process. It's possible that things have progressed beyond its capabilities over 2 years after filing.



    I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but this actually means it's likely been happening since 2015. You don't have to wait until you get a patent to use a technology you invented. The patent allows you to license it and helps prevent others from copying you. It is more than likely this has been happening since 2015, and i'd believe it. I swear all these games put you with cash shop twinks in matchmaking. I used to think it was because so many people were cash shop twinks, but now it's obvious it was intentional.

    The reason for patenting something is to prevent your competition from doing the same thing without paying you royalties. So not only is it likely Activision has been doing this for years, but it could very well be likely other companies are starting to do so as well and Activision can either prevent this tactic in their competitors, or they can further profit from royalties.
    JamesGoblin

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Sandmanjw said:
    All the above posts and not a one about the most alarming item in the article... they got a patent.

    They will apparently issue patents on anything now. Such a dangerous thing to allow corp's, or really anyone, to gain patents on things like this.

    Something i bet they might never use...but anything like this that even has anything to do with marketing and matchmaking i bet they will come along and stick out their hands and ask for a share, claiming patent infringement.

    People should really go read the info, the vast majority is about matchmaking and making "matches" that will increase the players enjoyment. Just a bit about the marketing part.
    Just give thanks that the Supreme Court invalidated the patenting of dna sequences. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    And to think that my spending towards gaming has been on the decline over the last couple years.  I don't see my personal trend reversing anytime soon.

    I was going to pick up Destiny 2 next week, but I think I've had a change of heart.

    Sorry Bungie, maybe go with a different publisher next time.
    IselinForgrimmGdemamiKyleranAvarix

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited October 2017
    HAHAHAHA...

    While reading this news I just remember the last time I played Allods Online. There, i joined a guild and they gave me a list of all the cash shop items i needed to be able to run dungeons with them and be efficient. At that moment i uninstalled the game and never looked back. Its been several years already.

    If Activision things that by pairing me with a whale will increase the odds of me buying microtransactions they are on a high note. A really high note.

    HAHAHAHA...
    gervaise1




  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    laserit said:
    And to think that my spending towards gaming has been on the decline over the last couple years.  I don't see my personal trend reversing anytime soon.

    I was going to pick up Destiny 2 next week, but I think I've had a change of heart.

    Sorry Bungie, maybe go with a different publisher next time.
    Mine has, as well.  It's also no coincidence that my spending has been almost laser-focused on the few quality titles that haven't included some kind of lootbox or microtransaction shenanigans.

    Of those that do include them, my spending generally avoids the microtransaction portion in favor of premium subs or simply buying the box and never paying another dime (Overwatch).
    laseritGdemami

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    And to think that my spending towards gaming has been on the decline over the last couple years.  I don't see my personal trend reversing anytime soon.

    I was going to pick up Destiny 2 next week, but I think I've had a change of heart.

    Sorry Bungie, maybe go with a different publisher next time.
    Who knows maybe Bungie uses that in their system. That's assuming any other publisher isn't doing it too.
    It would be a sad day if they did.

    Today is a sad day for gaming actually.
    Gdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    HAHAHAHA...

    While reading this news I just remember the last time I played Allods Online. There, i joined a guild and they gave me a list of all the cash shop items i needed to be able to run dungeons with them and be efficient. At that moment i uninstalled the game and never looked back. Its been several years already.

    If Activision things that by pairing me with a whale will increase the odds of me buying microtransactions they are on a high note. A really high note.

    HAHAHAHA...
    You know, you could have just joined another guild? Not everything has to be all or nothing. ;)
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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    You can tell this patent was filed 2 years ago. We are way past microtransactions. We have unregulated gambling loot boxes now, and it's only going to get worse.

    Hell I wouldn't be surprised to see an article about loot boxes in loot boxes and some kind of inception pun. So you can buy loot boxes while you buy loot boxes.
    Gdemami

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  • DeadSpockDeadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 403
    Personally when a game is free to play or buy to play I never ever buy anything from the store with real money. Wanna be the best with your pocket be my guest I ain't following.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Why does it matter if a game has microtransactions or not? Is the game good? Then why punish yourself from playing a good game? I play Destiny 2 on console and its amazing and a ton of fun...I'm not gonna self harm myself by not playing it just because of some loot boxes or whatever. I'm gonna buy Star Wars Battlefront 2, because I love star wars and its looking to be another great game.

    Too many people rage against microtransactions and DLC...and the vast majority of time they'd have no effect on the persons game.

    Oh well, I hope those people leave the gaming genre so people who actually LIKE games can enjoy games without a bunch of whiners complaining about them.
    IselinGdemami[Deleted User]Kyleran

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Why does it matter if a game has microtransactions or not? Is the game good? Then why punish yourself from playing a good game? I play Destiny 2 on console and its amazing and a ton of fun...I'm not gonna self harm myself by not playing it just because of some loot boxes or whatever. I'm gonna buy Star Wars Battlefront 2, because I love star wars and its looking to be another great game.

    Too many people rage against microtransactions and DLC...and the vast majority of time they'd have no effect on the persons game.

    Oh well, I hope those people leave the gaming genre so people who actually LIKE games can enjoy games without a bunch of whiners complaining about them.
    And wasn't there a pro-microtransaction article just recently praising loot boxes and microtransactions? It was for battlefront 2 lol

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/468796/star-wars-battlefront-ii-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-the-love-the-loot-box-michael-bitt#latest

    Just like that article on this site, I learned to stop worrying about things like this and just enjoying the game itself. Now I have far more fun in all kinds of games.
    GdemamiKyleran

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  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555




    Why does it matter if a game has microtransactions or not? Is the game good? Then why punish yourself from playing a good game? I play Destiny 2 on console and its amazing and a ton of fun...I'm not gonna self harm myself by not playing it just because of some loot boxes or whatever. I'm gonna buy Star Wars Battlefront 2, because I love star wars and its looking to be another great game.

    Too many people rage against microtransactions and DLC...and the vast majority of time they'd have no effect on the persons game.

    Oh well, I hope those people leave the gaming genre so people who actually LIKE games can enjoy games without a bunch of whiners complaining about them.


    And wasn't there a pro-microtransaction article just recently praising loot boxes and microtransactions? It was for battlefront 2 lol

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/468796/star-wars-battlefront-ii-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-the-love-the-loot-box-michael-bitt#latest

    Just like that article on this site, I learned to stop worrying about things like this and just enjoying the game itself. Now I have far more fun in all kinds of games.



    No, it absolutely wasn't. It was a nuanced piece about the tradeoffs of loot boxes vs. a season pass specifically within the context of a multiplayer shooter like Battlefront. The entire argument is hinged on the quality of the implementation. If something like this were part of the implementation, it would obviously be an instant deal breaker. This is pretty damn terrible.
    TheScavengerMadFrenchieGdemami[Deleted User]Avarix
  • FrammshammFrammshamm Member UncommonPosts: 322
    Forgrimm said:
    Putting whales together so they'll be even more inclined to keep up with the Joneses...
    Guess you failed at reading huh...
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    MikeB said:




    Why does it matter if a game has microtransactions or not? Is the game good? Then why punish yourself from playing a good game? I play Destiny 2 on console and its amazing and a ton of fun...I'm not gonna self harm myself by not playing it just because of some loot boxes or whatever. I'm gonna buy Star Wars Battlefront 2, because I love star wars and its looking to be another great game.

    Too many people rage against microtransactions and DLC...and the vast majority of time they'd have no effect on the persons game.

    Oh well, I hope those people leave the gaming genre so people who actually LIKE games can enjoy games without a bunch of whiners complaining about them.


    And wasn't there a pro-microtransaction article just recently praising loot boxes and microtransactions? It was for battlefront 2 lol

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/468796/star-wars-battlefront-ii-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-the-love-the-loot-box-michael-bitt#latest

    Just like that article on this site, I learned to stop worrying about things like this and just enjoying the game itself. Now I have far more fun in all kinds of games.



    No, it absolutely wasn't. It was a nuanced piece about the tradeoffs of loot boxes vs. a season pass specifically within the context of a multiplayer shooter like Battlefront. The entire argument is hinged on the quality of the implementation. If something like this were part of the implementation, it would obviously be an instant deal breaker. This is pretty damn terrible.
    Ah, okay. I guess I misunderstood it then. Thanks for the clarification :) 

    Though do agree, microtransactions overall have gotten a lot worse. I personally just ignore it and play the games. The games themselves are a lot of fun. I don't bother with the microtransaction stuff. But as of now, people still buy the game(s) in mass (despite all the negativity) and a lot of people (especially console users) buy them up. 

    If it ever gets to the point the game becomes like a full on casino where every single quest, piece of content you gotta pay for a chance to use and then pay even more for a random RNG reward...I'd definitely be out lol.

    This one though doesn't seem that bad to me. But maybe its just me. Like if I get paired with someone who has microtransactions wouldn't bother me at all, and if it was a pay to win game I wouldn't play it anyway.

    I personally don't think this effects anyone but those playing pay to win games and they get paired with someone who spent tons of money on the game. But the game would already be pay to win to begin with in that situation so it doesn't really matter. If its just cosmetic stuff and someone goes "wow that looks so cool I want that" then yeah that be a nice incentive but wouldn't feel forced to pay for it.
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  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    So we were nagging about something much smaller by EA then Activision came along and said "I'll give you something to cry about!"
    MadFrenchie[Deleted User]
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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Sovrath said:
    HAHAHAHA...

    While reading this news I just remember the last time I played Allods Online. There, i joined a guild and they gave me a list of all the cash shop items i needed to be able to run dungeons with them and be efficient. At that moment i uninstalled the game and never looked back. Its been several years already.

    If Activision things that by pairing me with a whale will increase the odds of me buying microtransactions they are on a high note. A really high note.

    HAHAHAHA...
    You know, you could have just joined another guild? Not everything has to be all or nothing. ;)
    That is true, but my point was that it is easier to give up on the game than it is to give in to whale's influence.




  • tankrdtankrd Member UncommonPosts: 25
    DirtyVision
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