Great post. Curating is hard. One person's treasure is another's junk and vice versa. Asset flippers though, ugh. Who decides what I get to see? That's part of my concern with review bombs and what gets put on my Steam store feed.
Gabe has stated Valves view on curation and in short people should expect less curation from them not more. Morever, given that he has stated that 'we dont think we are good at it and we dont want to do it' that if forced to do it that they would not be very good at it. That is not a hard rule but someone not wanting to do something and feeling they are not good at it is usually an indicator that they are not the best qualified for it.
Valve wants other people to curate, they have ideas but they are also open to the market place doing it without their direct assistance. but the end is that they do not want to curate
In the end, it's like a big mega store. Target or Best Buy (or Caldors or Bradleys or Service Merchandise or A&P or Woolworth ... what were we talking about again? Oh yeah) that just carries "stuff".
You go in and you go up and down the aisles and you have to be smart about how you spend your money.
no that is not what we are saying.
Picture this...you drive into a strip mall that has 30 different small stores. all those 30 small stores are attached to one large building in the back. Each of those stores specialize to different customers. You walk into 'Gore Games are us' and you say 'want to see the best 10 gore games'. they then go back in the back to the building and grab those games. That building is Steam.
The plans for Steam is that Steam runs in the BACK END, curators work in the FRONT END. if you want curation you go to your favorite store, if you dont, you can access Steam directly.
make sense? its not like walmart, walmart doesnt have front facing small stores that then go back in the back to get the goddies, work with me here
"point is" that it's up to people to pick what they want, of good quality and that fits their budget. They are going to find things that seem like a good buy but with some thought they might discover that it really isn't.
*cough* work with me here.
(oh and service merchandise would totally have their guys in the back get you your stuff!)
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Great post. Curating is hard. One person's treasure is another's junk and vice versa. Asset flippers though, ugh. Who decides what I get to see? That's part of my concern with review bombs and what gets put on my Steam store feed.
Gabe has stated Valves view on curation and in short people should expect less curation from them not more. Morever, given that he has stated that 'we dont think we are good at it and we dont want to do it' that if forced to do it that they would not be very good at it. That is not a hard rule but someone not wanting to do something and feeling they are not good at it is usually an indicator that they are not the best qualified for it.
Valve wants other people to curate, they have ideas but they are also open to the market place doing it without their direct assistance. but the end is that they do not want to curate
In the end, it's like a big mega store. Target or Best Buy (or Caldors or Bradleys or Service Merchandise or A&P or Woolworth ... what were we talking about again? Oh yeah) that just carries "stuff".
You go in and you go up and down the aisles and you have to be smart about how you spend your money.
no that is not what we are saying.
Picture this...you drive into a strip mall that has 30 different small stores. all those 30 small stores are attached to one large building in the back. Each of those stores specialize to different customers. You walk into 'Gore Games are us' and you say 'want to see the best 10 gore games'. they then go back in the back to the building and grab those games. That building is Steam.
The plans for Steam is that Steam runs in the BACK END, curators work in the FRONT END. if you want curation you go to your favorite store, if you dont, you can access Steam directly.
make sense? its not like walmart, walmart doesnt have front facing small stores that then go back in the back to get the goddies, work with me here
"point is" that it's up to people to pick what they want, of good quality and that fits their budget. They are going to find things that seem like a good buy but with some thought they might discover that it really isn't.
*cough* work with me here.
(oh and service merchandise would totally have their guys in the back get you your stuff!)
two points and the first is the most important here
1. regardless of how much you feel Valve 'should' curate, I strongly stress the point that they themselves have said 1. they do not want to curate 2. that they are not good at curation and 3. that they are going to move away from curation. 4. that others should curate. So arguing that they should curate is like suggesting the least qualified, least enthused person should control what you see.
2. They have said they want OTHERS to curate. they are NOT saying curation is bad, in fact they are saying curation is good. they are saying that they personally are not good at it. So they want OTHERS to curate.
so the conversation is not about no curation vs curation. the question is only WHO is curating.
So again the idea is that you would go to a site called 'cheap gory games that are good' and that company that runs that site would know which games to get from steam and they would have a front facing interface in which when you buy the game from them you dont know that in the BACK END its buying it from Steam.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
two points and the first is the most important here
1. regardless of how much you feel Valve 'should' curate, I strongly stress the point that they themselves have said
Stay off the communal wine Sean I never said they "should" curate. It's all worked out above. Me leaning toward it but then realizing that it's not really necessary, it's really rather beautiful writing. Poetic even. A journey if you will.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
two points and the first is the most important here
1. regardless of how much you feel Valve 'should' curate, I strongly stress the point that they themselves have said
Stay off the communal wine Sean I never said they "should" curate. It's all worked out above. The pros, the cons, it's really rather beautiful writing. Poetic even.
So the plan is to have 3rd party curators. Valve has stated that they do not feel they are good at curation and that they do not want to do curation. The reason they want to go the 3rd party route (other than them stating they dont want to curate and are not good at it) is that what I like is clearly not what you like. One centralized communistic controlling mega power controlling what everyone sees is not a good idea. Maybe I want to play a sex game, maybe I think RimWorld is actually really good but you think its 8bit trash. one central authority should not be making those desisions.
so, given your response I assume you agree with this
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
let me see if I get this right, this 'person' was smart enough to clone a game but not smart enough to be an informed shopper?
I'm going with this. Though it us possible he just saw the game and became intrigued at how bad it truly was and purchased it knowing he cold ask for his money back after he checked it out.
Still, I've rarely purchased a game from steam that I disliked as I usually purchase after I've done my research.
Quite honestly, the amount of research the average gamer does or does not put into a product doesn't absolve, at all, the propensity of Valve to allow scammers and completely failed titles to hang around the game list of their platform. We all know why they do it; they aren't providing the platform as a charity.
They really don't need the constant apologist attitude.
Honestly? IMO if you buy a crap game its your own fault, same if you get scammed, its most likely your own fault for being stupid in the first place. "Gamers" like these are why most games today have guide arrows telling them exactly where to go, because the devs know most of todays gamers are too damned stupid to figure anything out themsselves.
I do admit steam does needs to curate or watch a bit more what they put on there because there is some real trash on there. Thankfully I am not stupid enough to buy any of it. I usually try a game I am unsure of before i'll buy it, there are lots of ways to do it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
let me see if I get this right, this 'person' was smart enough to clone a game but not smart enough to be an informed shopper?
I'm going with this. Though it us possible he just saw the game and became intrigued at how bad it truly was and purchased it knowing he cold ask for his money back after he checked it out.
Still, I've rarely purchased a game from steam that I disliked as I usually purchase after I've done my research.
Quite honestly, the amount of research the average gamer does or does not put into a product doesn't absolve, at all, the propensity of Valve to allow scammers and completely failed titles to hang around the game list of their platform. We all know why they do it; they aren't providing the platform as a charity.
They really don't need the constant apologist attitude.
Honestly? IMO if you buy a crap game its your own fault, same if you get scammed, its most likely your own fault for being stupid in the first place. "Gamers" like these are why most games today have guide arrows telling them exactly where to go, because the devs know most of todays gamers are too damned stupid to figure anything out themsselves.
I do admit steam does needs to curate or watch a bit more what they put on there because there is some real trash on there. Thankfully I am not stupid enough to buy any of it. I usually try a game I am unsure of before i'll buy it, there are lots of ways to do it.
Again, there's a reason the very department stores the posters in this thread are trying to compare Steam to don't carry half-finished products and push through scams.
Yet we've all decided that, because it's video games, the consumer should be held to a different standard. Thankfully, Valve has a refund policy to account for this. None of that precludes judgement on their platform for shitty/non-existent curation because they don't wanna miss out on a dime of possible revenue.
You guys seem to wanna hold the consumer accountable for his or her part while simultaneously and continuously attempting to down play or eliminate the contributions from folks like Valve and scammy developers. This ain't the wild west. We've moved on from such a laissez-faire attitude towards the market in general for very good reason.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not.
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
wait.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
wait.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Curating for titled that work as intended and haven't been abandoned by the developer (see Nether) that linger around the game list in addition to things like the renaming of incomplete titles to relaunch them and attempt to collect a new batch of revenue ala the Titov debacle are things that should be responded to in a timely manner and/or prevented.
The "buyer beware" idea in regards to these instances is the special rules I'm referring to. When was the last time you bought the frame of a bicycle at Wal-Mart, only to find that the manufacturer abandoned the model before developing and providing you with the tires?
let me see if I get this right, this 'person' was smart enough to clone a game but not smart enough to be an informed shopper?
Wow, what a terrible interpretation. More likely he was browsing through steam and noticed this pile of crap game and decided to drop 2 bucks on it to make a youtube video of how bad it is and show how easily it could be cloned.
He will probably make much more than the 2 bucks back in ad revenue from the video and pick up a bunch of subbers along the way.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
wait.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Curating for titled that work as intended and haven't been abandoned by the developer (see Nether) that linger around the game list in addition to things like the renaming of incomplete titles to relaunch them and attempt to collect a new batch of revenue ala the Titov debacle are things that should be responded to in a timely manner and/or prevented.
The "buyer beware" idea in regards to these instances is the special rules I'm referring to. When was the last time you bought the frame of a bicycle at Wal-Mart, only to find that the manufacturer abandoned the model before developing and providing you with the tires?
Again let's not try to be linear and literal.
You wouldn't buy a frame of a bicycle only to find out that they didn't finish the tires. You might find older models however. I've found older Televisions "priced to move".
But the point is you might find a bicycle that looks great and is very cheap but the company that makes it is garbage, bad customer service and uses cheap parts. Or you might find a cheap bicycle that really is a good buy and you wouldn't gain a lot by buying one for a few hundred dollars more.
As far as "making special rules", well, not every industry is the same. Buying a diamond is going to be a different experience and one would look for different things than buying a car or buying soap.
Do some industries get a pass for "less than" quality? I know in the movie industry you can tell someone that you saw a "B Movie" and automatically they will be cued in on the experience you had. If you then said "the effects were cheap and the writing was bad and the acting was bad" they'll wonder what the heck you were experiencing.
How about musical instruments? Buy an inexpensive musical instrument and you aren't going to get great quality, it's not going to sound good and believe it or not it might even be hard to play. I remember playing something on my $375 guitar and thinking "I should be able to play this why can't I?". went down to guitar center and said I was going to start at $1000.00 and continue to go up until I could play it flawlessly. Apparently the magic price tag was $3,800.00
So should the game industry get "a pass" for a variety of things? On paper no. But since it always seems to have issues I'm going to assume that either A, everyone in the game industry is a man/boy and incompetent (and I've cringed at so many developer interviews I sometimes wonder ...) or B, it's just a very difficult industry that is trying to do so many things at once and it's just plain difficult.
In which case the consumer needs to be an "informed consumer" and know what they are getting into.
I should probably add, work in the arts, work in higher education and work in, say, a law firm. Different experiences and different expectations on how things get done and what is expected "when".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
let me see if I get this right, this 'person' was smart enough to clone a game but not smart enough to be an informed shopper?
Wow, what a terrible interpretation. More likely he was browsing through steam and noticed this pile of crap game and decided to drop 2 bucks on it to make a youtube video of how bad it is and show how easily it could be cloned.
He will probably make much more than the 2 bucks back in ad revenue from the video and pick up a bunch of subbers along the way.
Yes that is exactly what he did.
but 'was so frustrated with the game' is being highly dishonest. He knew it was crap before he bought it, which was my point
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
wait.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Curating for titled that work as intended and haven't been abandoned by the developer (see Nether) that linger around the game list in addition to things like the renaming of incomplete titles to relaunch them and attempt to collect a new batch of revenue ala the Titov debacle are things that should be responded to in a timely manner and/or prevented.
The "buyer beware" idea in regards to these instances is the special rules I'm referring to. When was the last time you bought the frame of a bicycle at Wal-Mart, only to find that the manufacturer abandoned the model before developing and providing you with the tires?
Again let's not try to be linear and literal.
You wouldn't buy a frame of a bicycle only to find out that they didn't finish the tires. You might find older models however. I've found older Televisions "priced to move".
But the point is you might find a bicycle that looks great and is very cheap but the company that makes it is garbage, bad customer service and uses cheap parts. Or you might find a cheap bicycle that really is a good buy and you wouldn't gain a lot by buying one for a few hundred dollars more.
As far as "making special rules", well, not every industry is the same. Buying a diamond is going to be a different experience and one would look for different things than buying a car or buying soap.
Do some industries get a pass for "less than" quality? I know in the movie industry you can tell someone that you saw a "B Movie" and automatically they will be cued in on the experience you had. If you then said "the effects were cheap and the writing was bad and the acting was bad" they'll wonder what the heck you were experiencing.
How about musical instruments? Buy an inexpensive musical instrument and you aren't going to get great quality, it's not going to sound good and believe it or not it might even be hard to play. I remember playing something on my $375 guitar and thinking "I should be able to play this why can't I?". went down to guitar center and said I was going to start at $1000.00 and continue to go up until I could play it flawlessly. Apparently the magic price tag was $3,800.00
So should the game industry get "a pass" for a variety of things? On paper no. But since it always seems to have issues I'm going to assume that either A, everyone in the game industry is a man/boy and incompetent (and I've cringed at so many developer interviews I sometimes wonder ...) or B, it's just a very difficult industry that is trying to do so many things at once and it's just plain difficult.
In which case the consumer needs to be an "informed consumer" and know what they are getting into.
expecting all video games to be curated by a central authority for quality is by near definition a 'special rule'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
True and that wasn't the point. The point I wanted to make. I wanted to use it as an analogy to having a large variety of products before you and you need to be smart about what is worth it or not. Do
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Which begs the question I mentioned in my previous post: why are we making special rules for this specific industry?
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
wait.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Curating for titled that work as intended and haven't been abandoned by the developer (see Nether) that linger around the game list in addition to things like the renaming of incomplete titles to relaunch them and attempt to collect a new batch of revenue ala the Titov debacle are things that should be responded to in a timely manner and/or prevented.
The "buyer beware" idea in regards to these instances is the special rules I'm referring to. When was the last time you bought the frame of a bicycle at Wal-Mart, only to find that the manufacturer abandoned the model before developing and providing you with the tires?
the VAST majority of examples given on games that should be curated out do NOT fit that requirement.
Those crappy games are very clearly being sold and advertised as crappy games, the screenshots, the videos, the game play all of it, there is nothing misleading.
So again, expecting all games to be curated by a central authority for quality is a perfect example of 'special rules'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
I wasn't specifically thinking about quality when commenting on Sovrath's post, but rather how it's similar to a retail outlet when trying to find what you're looking for. The Walmart and Amazon apps are similar to the Steam Store in that they try and predict what you want and push it on you while having a robust search to help you get to exactly what you want.
There is a lot of crap to wade through on those sites as well. You can do it the old fashioned method of perusing the aisle item by item manually or you can use the search engine method and look for it using filters.
There is a ton of crap on Amazon, Walmart, and Target that is junk of quality and use that's no better than half-finished games on Steam. All three of those retailers, during the last eclipse, didn't fully vet all of the UV protective glasses or third party partners selling them. They had to recall, replace, or refund.
So I see it very much like Steam with many more similarities than differences.
But how many of those actively push such items on any kind of regular basis? How many support continued scams such as rebooting the same game or rebranding it under another name? Either through complete and utter apathy or through passive complicity.
When those vendors found out that they had glasses for the eclipse that weren't effective, I don't remember them attempting to sidestep the issue by claiming "well, it's not our place to curate offerings for any quality, no matter how basic."
We're seeing that the industry is going to continue to head down the rabbit hole of exploiting customers in every way, shape, and form, from indie scammers to AAA profiteers developing blatantly underhanded techniques to continually fleece their customers. Attempting to qualify it is asking for more of this.
As Tamanous mentioned in the Activision thread, attempting to qualify or down play such dangerous apathy or deceitful complicity from entities such as Valve is the equivalent of this little maneuver:
I don't remember when I ever saw Wal-Mart or Target market or sell unfinished products...
I wasn't specifically thinking about quality when commenting on Sovrath's post, but rather how it's similar to a retail outlet when trying to find what you're looking for. The Walmart and Amazon apps are similar to the Steam Store in that they try and predict what you want and push it on you while having a robust search to help you get to exactly what you want.
There is a lot of crap to wade through on those sites as well. You can do it the old fashioned method of perusing the aisle item by item manually or you can use the search engine method and look for it using filters.
There is a ton of crap on Amazon, Walmart, and Target that is junk of quality and use that's no better than half-finished games on Steam. All three of those retailers, during the last eclipse, didn't fully vet all of the UV protective glasses or third party partners selling them. They had to recall, replace, or refund.
So I see it very much like Steam with many more similarities than differences.
But how many of those actively push such items on any kind of regular basis? How many support continued scams such as rebooting the same game or rebranding it under another name? Either through complete and utter apathy or through passive complicity.
all of them do it as much as steam does.
again it seems like your wanting 'special rules' for video games with one centralized authority controlling all quality
and I could not disagree more with you on the state of the gaming industry. I have gamed PC for 37 years and this is by far the best era yet.
so clearly given we have RADICALLY different views does it make sense to have one centralized authority (specifically Valve) controlling curation for everyone?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
When those vendors found out that they had glasses for the eclipse that weren't effective, I don't remember them attempting to sidestep the issue by claiming "well, it's not our place to curate offerings for any quality, no matter how basic."
Except Amazon didn't curate them. They most likely just offered refunds. Had they curated them they wouldn't be there. Amazon doesn't really curate as far as I can tell. They just say "you didn't get what you paid for? Here's your refund".
Steam also offers refunds.
I don't usually return games but I've received 3 refunds over all my time buying from Steam. Very easy.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
*cough* work with me here.
(oh and service merchandise would totally have their guys in the back get you your stuff!)
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
1. regardless of how much you feel Valve 'should' curate, I strongly stress the point that they themselves have said 1. they do not want to curate 2. that they are not good at curation and 3. that they are going to move away from curation. 4. that others should curate. So arguing that they should curate is like suggesting the least qualified, least enthused person should control what you see.
2. They have said they want OTHERS to curate. they are NOT saying curation is bad, in fact they are saying curation is good. they are saying that they personally are not good at it. So they want OTHERS to curate.
so the conversation is not about no curation vs curation. the question is only WHO is curating.
So again the idea is that you would go to a site called 'cheap gory games that are good' and that company that runs that site would know which games to get from steam and they would have a front facing interface in which when you buy the game from them you dont know that in the BACK END its buying it from Steam.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Valve has stated that they do not feel they are good at curation and that they do not want to do curation.
The reason they want to go the 3rd party route (other than them stating they dont want to curate and are not good at it) is that what I like is clearly not what you like.
One centralized communistic controlling mega power controlling what everyone sees is not a good idea. Maybe I want to play a sex game, maybe I think RimWorld is actually really good but you think its 8bit trash. one central authority should not be making those desisions.
so, given your response I assume you agree with this
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Here's a good example:
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Yet we've all decided that, because it's video games, the consumer should be held to a different standard. Thankfully, Valve has a refund policy to account for this. None of that precludes judgement on their platform for shitty/non-existent curation because they don't wanna miss out on a dime of possible revenue.
You guys seem to wanna hold the consumer accountable for his or her part while simultaneously and continuously attempting to down play or eliminate the contributions from folks like Valve and scammy developers. This ain't the wild west. We've moved on from such a laissez-faire attitude towards the market in general for very good reason.
Not the "steam is like department stores".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EDIT- replaced genre with industry- that's a pretty significant typo on my part. Apologies.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
'special rules' like 'steam is not a department store'?
what 'rule' is it that games what we see to buy needs to be curated? that sounds like a 'special rule' to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The "buyer beware" idea in regards to these instances is the special rules I'm referring to. When was the last time you bought the frame of a bicycle at Wal-Mart, only to find that the manufacturer abandoned the model before developing and providing you with the tires?
He will probably make much more than the 2 bucks back in ad revenue from the video and pick up a bunch of subbers along the way.
You wouldn't buy a frame of a bicycle only to find out that they didn't finish the tires. You might find older models however. I've found older Televisions "priced to move".
But the point is you might find a bicycle that looks great and is very cheap but the company that makes it is garbage, bad customer service and uses cheap parts. Or you might find a cheap bicycle that really is a good buy and you wouldn't gain a lot by buying one for a few hundred dollars more.
As far as "making special rules", well, not every industry is the same. Buying a diamond is going to be a different experience and one would look for different things than buying a car or buying soap.
Do some industries get a pass for "less than" quality? I know in the movie industry you can tell someone that you saw a "B Movie" and automatically they will be cued in on the experience you had. If you then said "the effects were cheap and the writing was bad and the acting was bad" they'll wonder what the heck you were experiencing.
How about musical instruments? Buy an inexpensive musical instrument and you aren't going to get great quality, it's not going to sound good and believe it or not it might even be hard to play. I remember playing something on my $375 guitar and thinking "I should be able to play this why can't I?". went down to guitar center and said I was going to start at $1000.00 and continue to go up until I could play it flawlessly. Apparently the magic price tag was $3,800.00
So should the game industry get "a pass" for a variety of things? On paper no. But since it always seems to have issues I'm going to assume that either A, everyone in the game industry is a man/boy and incompetent (and I've cringed at so many developer interviews I sometimes wonder ...) or B, it's just a very difficult industry that is trying to do so many things at once and it's just plain difficult.
In which case the consumer needs to be an "informed consumer" and know what they are getting into.
I should probably add, work in the arts, work in higher education and work in, say, a law firm. Different experiences and different expectations on how things get done and what is expected "when".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
but 'was so frustrated with the game' is being highly dishonest. He knew it was crap before he bought it, which was my point
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Those crappy games are very clearly being sold and advertised as crappy games, the screenshots, the videos, the game play all of it, there is nothing misleading.
So again, expecting all games to be curated by a central authority for quality is a perfect example of 'special rules'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
When those vendors found out that they had glasses for the eclipse that weren't effective, I don't remember them attempting to sidestep the issue by claiming "well, it's not our place to curate offerings for any quality, no matter how basic."
We're seeing that the industry is going to continue to head down the rabbit hole of exploiting customers in every way, shape, and form, from indie scammers to AAA profiteers developing blatantly underhanded techniques to continually fleece their customers. Attempting to qualify it is asking for more of this.
As Tamanous mentioned in the Activision thread, attempting to qualify or down play such dangerous apathy or deceitful complicity from entities such as Valve is the equivalent of this little maneuver:
again it seems like your wanting 'special rules' for video games with one centralized authority controlling all quality
and I could not disagree more with you on the state of the gaming industry. I have gamed PC for 37 years and this is by far the best era yet.
so clearly given we have RADICALLY different views does it make sense to have one centralized authority (specifically Valve) controlling curation for everyone?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Steam also offers refunds.
I don't usually return games but I've received 3 refunds over all my time buying from Steam. Very easy.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo