I'll repeat again for the little royalty who have to have everything their way NOW.
What game are you using as a basis of comparison that was not buggy as hell during it's testing phases?
Path of Exile during alpha.
Original post of a topic:
"How companys change - back in 2012 there was free beta access for everyone in poe and now they try to milk the cow with the oriath beta. 500 $ ? Greed at its best."
Someone's response:
"Original beta was a buggy mess that needed a lot of fixing.
3.0 is more of a expansion pack."
Response to that response:
"
Original beta was a buggy mess that needed a lot of fixing.
3.0 is more of a buggy expansion pack that needs a lot of fixing.
Fixed it for you."
Apparently your comrades over on the POE forum don't agree with you. (Source)
Like I keep saying. People whine about bugs in EVERY game.
I'll repeat again for the little royalty who have to have everything their way NOW.
What game are you using as a basis of comparison that was not buggy as hell during it's testing phases?
there is buggy then there is unplayable, then there is a game thats already delayed a couple years and is (by the most generous guesses) 3 years away. I still say half the stuff they have claimed they had (in game play footage at the conventions) is impossible for them to do.
So then its a 9 year saga. But people will still be able to brag about how much money fools are still giving them. But the game still wont be any closer to release and people will still be making excuses.
I would like to know if there are ANY limits to what the 3 or 4 guys who are seemingly paid to keep defending this shitshow have where they might finally say 'you know what I dont think they will get it done'.
You didn't answer the question. Instead you went again on a hate rant without providing anything of substance in the debate.
Also, how exactly is alpha 2.6.3 unplayable ? Mind to elaborate ? If you have technical issues i can direct you to the right place to remedy most of them provided you're not running it on a potato.
You are indeed a backer and do have access to 2.6.3.. correct ?
2.6 is old news but yes when it first hit the PTU it was unplayable. 3.0 is the current topic and it too is unplayable.
but really 2.6 has what 6 or 7 systems in it so it really shouldnt be that buggy. Problem is 3.0 only adds (from what I have seen) 1 or 2 other systems and it broke the ones that 2.6 had fairly stable. (but still not bug free).
As for half the list, its more than that (probably 85-90%) because 3.0 doesnt have a lot in it (right now) so its easier to list the things it does have rather than what it doesnt, then just go look at the 700 or whatever lines there are in the patch notes and see what isnt there.
2.6 is old news but yes when it first hit the PTU it was unplayable.
Unplayable is a bit of a stretch, but it was quite laggy and not all that fun. I loaded it up once and said "Nah. This isn't for me. I'll check in again in a few months when they have smoothed it out more."
Then I did, and they had, and I was reminded of mission running in Freelancer by the content that was there.
See that's the thing about pre-release games. They are a work in progress. They do not stay in the same state forever. Just like people are whining about how POE's beta was a "buggy mess" but a lot of people play and love that game today, so will Star Citizen eventually be a finished product people can enjoy.
The big thing is I've been getting delivered Star Citizen content in small increments for years now, while most games won't let people even touch the game until it's nearly finished. For instance development on GW2 took slightly over 5 years and the public didn't get to touch it until 2012. About half a year before release.
SWTOR was a similar story and the general chat during the tests and on the day of release were like 50%+ people whining about bugs and performance issues.
So the fact we've been allowed in on the entire process starting not that long after the original kickstarter has been pretty cool. And if you can't handle that it's a point where it would usually only be playable internally, you don't have to play it.
well it helps if you have ever even played it rather than deny it even exists and say half of the things CIG say they will do are not even possible without even listing a single example. Then proceed to just 'know' what is in 3.0 without ever having seen it, never mind play it.
I'll repeat again for the little royalty who have to have everything their way NOW.
What game are you using as a basis of comparison that was not buggy as hell during it's testing phases?
there is buggy then there is unplayable, then there is a game thats already delayed a couple years and is (by the most generous guesses) 3 years away. I still say half the stuff they have claimed they had (in game play footage at the conventions) is impossible for them to do.
So then its a 9 year saga. But people will still be able to brag about how much money fools are still giving them. But the game still wont be any closer to release and people will still be making excuses.
I would like to know if there are ANY limits to what the 3 or 4 guys who are seemingly paid to keep defending this shitshow have where they might finally say 'you know what I dont think they will get it done'.
You didn't answer the question. Instead you went again on a hate rant without providing anything of substance in the debate.
Also, how exactly is alpha 2.6.3 unplayable ? Mind to elaborate ? If you have technical issues i can direct you to the right place to remedy most of them provided you're not running it on a potato.
You are indeed a backer and do have access to 2.6.3.. correct ?
2.6 is old news but yes when it first hit the PTU it was unplayable. 3.0 is the current topic and it too is unplayable.
So, you have access to 3.0 then.
Can you give us some info about the build ? Nothing too serious since i presume you are under an NDA. Just some bits.
Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
I seem to recall CR stating that SC had been worked on for a year already by the time the KS campaign started.
Erillion will no doubt say it does not matter, and that it does not count as they only had a couple of people at that point.
Erillion will say that CR said it had been worked on "in the past year" (which was 2012, as the interview was in 2012). CR has NOT said "for a year already". That is just deliberatly wrong quoting by a certain group of people.
Have fun
"Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "
Ortwin Freyermuth - 2014
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I seem to recall CR stating that SC had been worked on for a year already by the time the KS campaign started.
Erillion will no doubt say it does not matter, and that it does not count as they only had a couple of people at that point.
Erillion will say that CR said it had been worked on "in the past year" (which was 2012, as the interview was in 2012). CR has NOT said "for a year already". That is just deliberatly wrong quoting by a certain group of people.
Have fun
"Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "
100 sextillion cubic kilometers would be realistic. If each of Star Citizen's systems is 1AU and Star Citizen is supposed to have 100 of them, that would be about 100 sextillion cubic kilometers.
If we're talking about normal kilometers instead of cubic kilometers then the choice of units itself is ridiculous: One could explore 40 million kilometers within a single cubic kilometer by moving at 5 cm intervals.
1. Several interviewers ask questions of Chris and Ortwin and ALL of them get the year wrong
or
2. CIG has a misleading date on their website
Funny how a company supposedly founding in 2012 registered its website on Oct 2011
A simple whois search shows this.
I am still baffled why you fight this issue so strongly. What is the big deal if they started work in 2011 or 2012? We both know this game wont be close to containing half the features advertised until after 2020. It really doesnt matter to me, I just bring this up because it seems to hit a nerve with you hence you using caps in your post.
>>> Funny how a company supposedly founding in 2012 registered its website on Oct 2011 >>>
Some people register a website years in advance. THAT is your proof ? There are plenty of golddiggers that speculatively reserve lots of website names at minimal cost just to sell them for a HUGE profit later to those that really should own these website names.
I use CAPS because this topic has been discussed ad nauseam about 20 times in the past, with nothing new added to it. And still it is brought back from the grave time and time again.
A company having misleading data on their website when it comes to legally relevant information like company registration number or founding date ... i think not.
A few authors getting a year wrong (out of hundreds of people that wanted and got an interview about SC and then published articles about it) and/or misinterpreting CRs words ... sounds quite likely to me.
What you call "fighting" i call sticking to the facts. If you can show me a quotable credible source that states that facts are different, i am more than happy to accept these corrected facts.
Have fun
OK your facts are...
1. Multiple interviews of Chris Roberts were mis-quoted 2. Ortwins interview was also mis-quoted 3. Chris registered the website in 2011 to sell it and make money because the name was so awesome. 4. Having a company founded date on a website is somehow legally relevant but putting 2012 as the expected date on a kickstarter campaign is not.
Thanks for clearing that up.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
2.6 is old news but yes when it first hit the PTU it was unplayable.
Unplayable is a bit of a stretch, but it was quite laggy and not all that fun. I loaded it up once and said "Nah. This isn't for me. I'll check in again in a few months when they have smoothed it out more."
Then I did, and they had, and I was reminded of mission running in Freelancer by the content that was there.
See that's the thing about pre-release games. They are a work in progress. They do not stay in the same state forever. Just like people are whining about how POE's beta was a "buggy mess" but a lot of people play and love that game today, so will Star Citizen eventually be a finished product people can enjoy.
The big thing is I've been getting delivered Star Citizen content in small increments for years now, while most games won't let people even touch the game until it's nearly finished. For instance development on GW2 took slightly over 5 years and the public didn't get to touch it until 2012. About half a year before release.
SWTOR was a similar story and the general chat during the tests and on the day of release were like 50%+ people whining about bugs and performance issues.
So the fact we've been allowed in on the entire process starting not that long after the original kickstarter has been pretty cool. And if you can't handle that it's a point where it would usually only be playable internally, you don't have to play it.
Yeah but did any of those games you mentioned being silent til the last phase sell you concept ships for the first 4 silent years?
"Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "
Ortwin Freyermuth - 2014
The interview is known and has been discussed ad nauseam already.
I would suspect Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent the last decade building the space game concept and story. Ever since Freelancer was not fully what he intended it to be.
I am also quite sure Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent quite some time creating a prototype. Absolutely possible this was over a year. Which is a single person tinkering with code that may one day become a project. Or not. Like a thousand other persons tinkering with CryEngine.
Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012) Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project.
Yeah but did any of those games you mentioned being silent til the last phase sell you concept ships for the first 4 silent years?
Nope. But then again I willingly bought the ships I have knowing Kickstarters are a risk, and that crap happens, and wouldn't be at all angry if Star Citizen shut down tomorrow (Though I highly doubt that will happen.)
I bought into the game expecting a space sim with nice graphics made by the creator of one of if not my favorite game ever, and then they added a ton of crazy awesome stretch goals like infantry combat I wasn't actually sure they would pull off.
So I guess part of the reason I'm not stomping around screaming like a child who didn't get their candy is my expectations for this game have always been pretty grounded no matter how many features they promise. So when I see they actually have done things like build a FPS system and incorporate it in with space combat in the PTU I'm pleasantly surprised, and not throwing a fit because Star Marine is a bit buggy, as I was always fairly skeptical as to whether or not they would do it at all.
So I guess part of the reason I'm not stomping around screaming like a child who didn't get their candy is my expectations for this game have always been pretty grounded no matter how many features they promise. So when I see they actually have done things like build a FPS system and incorporate it in with space combat in the PTU I'm pleasantly surprised, and not throwing a fit because Star Marine is a bit buggy, as I was always fairly skeptical as to whether or not they would do it at all.
Is this really necessary?
Look, for months at a time they hype patches and the content and gameplay to be delivered in those patches They then deploy the patches to the PTU and, especially in the case of builds like 2.4, the client crashes just loading the game, the servers crash every few minutes and the whole process is so buggy and janky that you can hardly test the game anyway. All of this occurs after saying things like "We are delaying the patch to deliver the quality and polish that the backers have come to expect."
On top of all that you then have to download multiple gigabytes every day with 2.4 being something ridiculous like 20+ patches, because after 4 years they still didn't have an incremental patcher in place.
It's not surprising that people were getting annoyed given all the hype and rhetoric coming from the studio. Laying all of the blame on the backers and none on the company says it all tbh.
It's not surprising that people were getting annoyed given all the hype and rhetoric coming from the studio. Laying all of the blame on the backers and none on the company says it all tbh.
Well if people stuck to the stable Persistant Universe where that content is more or less as advertised in stead of jumping into the TEST server and then proceeding to complain it has bugs then they wouldn't get as annoyed would they. Most of these people are hardly young kids, perhaps they should bring it a step further and ban anyone who makes whiney complaint posts about bugs on the ptu from being able to access ptu ever again!
It's not surprising that people were getting annoyed given all the hype and rhetoric coming from the studio. Laying all of the blame on the backers and none on the company says it all tbh.
Well if people stuck to the stable Persistant Universe where that content is more or less as advertised in stead of jumping into the TEST server and then proceeding to complain it has bugs then they wouldn't get as annoyed would they. Most of these people are hardly young kids, perhaps they should bring it a step further and ban anyone who makes whiney complaint posts about bugs on the ptu from being able to access ptu ever again!
Why am I not surprised to see you trying to foist everything away from CIG...
If this was just about bugs I would be right with you saying that people need to get a grip but it's never so simple. As I said, if CIG hype and mismanage expectations while delivering builds that barely even function and have claimed they've undergone polish and rounds of QA testing it's no surprise people react badly.
if CIG hype and mismanage expectations while delivering builds that barely even function
CIG deliver builds to the PU that run just fine for an alpha. I can't comment to the polish remark as I have never noticed that.
CIG have mismanaged hype for events that they hold which is why I was delighted to see them turn focus away from CitizenCon more than an hour before going live this time. Beyond that, why shouldn't we get excited for things being brought to us that didn't exist before? I can't get behind the idea that it is somehow CIG's fault that some people react to hype like a dropped bottle of coke being opened.
if CIG hype and mismanage expectations while delivering builds that barely even function
CIG deliver builds to the PU that run just fine for an alpha. I can't comment to the polish remark as I have never noticed that.
CIG have mismanaged hype for events that they hold which is why I was delighted to see them turn focus away from CitizenCon more than an hour before going live this time. Beyond that, why shouldn't we get excited for things being brought to us that didn't exist before? I can't get behind the idea that it is somehow CIG's fault that some people react to hype like a dropped bottle of coke being opened.
People got excited about SC's basic features... years and years ago. Maybe with almost none of those delivered, people get a little frustrated when they're shown new features like faceIP when what they were initially promised is nowhere close to being delivered.
I'd love a game where new things are added every week... as long as there's a basic game and those things are actually added instead of promised and a few years later a fraction of those features are added and even those that are, are in a very basic form.
Endless features are great but the game as it is now is boring and as barebone as it gets.... the few leaked 3.0 videos don't seem to fix that (if they're legit). I'm hoping there's more meat to it.
what they were initially promised is nowhere close to being delivered.
Well that's a tough subject. The very first people who backed a much smaller game and those who were pretty much mainly only interested in sq42, the people who voted NO to expanding the scope of the game. Those people I do feel have a legitimate reason to feel annoyed with CIG. Luckily for them they have had about 4 years to get a refund for their $20.
As for those who have joined up to SC backing the later large scope and design which included the possibility of full planet interaction and faceIP following R&D, some of which is starting to be delivered now after successful R&D....these people have much less to complain about. Things seem to be moving along at a reasonable pace for such a game even though there have been substantial unforeseen delays. For my personal hopes they are about a year behind where I expected / hoped they would be, that is a long time, but I can live with it, It is one hell of a large project.
"Endless features are great but the game as it is now is boring and as barebone as it gets.... the few leaked 3.0 videos don't seem to fix that (if they're legit). I'm hoping there's more meat to it."
So no there are no 'endless features' as I have said before here, most the stuff they add were talked about pretty early on in the design process. Would like to know what vids you have seen for 3.0 as the only few I have seen floating about are very short bug report vids. I really think you should just probably hold off touching SC until 4.0, which judging by the maths applied to other subjects in this thread will arrive in exactly 1.6 years and is in no way a complete guess and we can take it as the new SC standard figure for accurate predictions.
"Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "
Ortwin Freyermuth - 2014
The interview is known and has been discussed ad nauseam already.
I would suspect Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent the last decade building the space game concept and story. Ever since Freelancer was not fully what he intended it to be.
I am also quite sure Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent quite some time creating a prototype. Absolutely possible this was over a year. Which is a single person tinkering with code that may one day become a project. Or not. Like a thousand other persons tinkering with CryEngine.
Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012) Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project.
Have fun
But you are missing something.
Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "
So it was not just
Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I can foresee one feature creep area though and that will be planet side stuff, tanks and base defense and all sorts of stuff I can see being added in the future. How bad.
Comments
"How companys change - back in 2012 there was free beta access for everyone in poe and now they try to milk the cow with the oriath beta. 500 $ ? Greed at its best."
Someone's response:
"Original beta was a buggy mess that needed a lot of fixing.
3.0 is more of a expansion pack."
Response to that response:
"
Fixed it for you."
Apparently your comrades over on the POE forum don't agree with you. (Source)
Like I keep saying. People whine about bugs in EVERY game.
..Cake..
but really 2.6 has what 6 or 7 systems in it so it really shouldnt be that buggy. Problem is 3.0 only adds (from what I have seen) 1 or 2 other systems and it broke the ones that 2.6 had fairly stable. (but still not bug free).
As for half the list, its more than that (probably 85-90%) because 3.0 doesnt have a lot in it (right now) so its easier to list the things it does have rather than what it doesnt, then just go look at the 700 or whatever lines there are in the patch notes and see what isnt there.
..Cake..
Then I did, and they had, and I was reminded of mission running in Freelancer by the content that was there.
See that's the thing about pre-release games. They are a work in progress. They do not stay in the same state forever. Just like people are whining about how POE's beta was a "buggy mess" but a lot of people play and love that game today, so will Star Citizen eventually be a finished product people can enjoy.
The big thing is I've been getting delivered Star Citizen content in small increments for years now, while most games won't let people even touch the game until it's nearly finished. For instance development on GW2 took slightly over 5 years and the public didn't get to touch it until 2012. About half a year before release.
SWTOR was a similar story and the general chat during the tests and on the day of release were like 50%+ people whining about bugs and performance issues.
So the fact we've been allowed in on the entire process starting not that long after the original kickstarter has been pretty cool. And if you can't handle that it's a point where it would usually only be playable internally, you don't have to play it.
Can you give us some info about the build ? Nothing too serious since i presume you are under an NDA. Just some bits.
Ortwin Freyermuth - 2014
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If we're talking about normal kilometers instead of cubic kilometers then the choice of units itself is ridiculous: One could explore 40 million kilometers within a single cubic kilometer by moving at 5 cm intervals.
1. Multiple interviews of Chris Roberts were mis-quoted
2. Ortwins interview was also mis-quoted
3. Chris registered the website in 2011 to sell it and make money because the name was so awesome.
4. Having a company founded date on a website is somehow legally relevant but putting 2012 as the expected date on a kickstarter campaign is not.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I would suspect Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent the last decade building the space game concept and story. Ever since Freelancer was not fully what he intended it to be.
I am also quite sure Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person) spent quite some time creating a prototype. Absolutely possible this was over a year. Which is a single person tinkering with code that may one day become a project. Or not. Like a thousand other persons tinkering with CryEngine.
Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012) Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project.
Have fun
I bought into the game expecting a space sim with nice graphics made by the creator of one of if not my favorite game ever, and then they added a ton of crazy awesome stretch goals like infantry combat I wasn't actually sure they would pull off.
So I guess part of the reason I'm not stomping around screaming like a child who didn't get their candy is my expectations for this game have always been pretty grounded no matter how many features they promise. So when I see they actually have done things like build a FPS system and incorporate it in with space combat in the PTU I'm pleasantly surprised, and not throwing a fit because Star Marine is a bit buggy, as I was always fairly skeptical as to whether or not they would do it at all.
Is this really necessary?
Look, for months at a time they hype patches and the content and gameplay to be delivered in those patches They then deploy the patches to the PTU and, especially in the case of builds like 2.4, the client crashes just loading the game, the servers crash every few minutes and the whole process is so buggy and janky that you can hardly test the game anyway.
All of this occurs after saying things like "We are delaying the patch to deliver the quality and polish that the backers have come to expect."
On top of all that you then have to download multiple gigabytes every day with 2.4 being something ridiculous like 20+ patches, because after 4 years they still didn't have an incremental patcher in place.
It's not surprising that people were getting annoyed given all the hype and rhetoric coming from the studio. Laying all of the blame on the backers and none on the company says it all tbh.
Why am I not surprised to see you trying to foist everything away from CIG...
If this was just about bugs I would be right with you saying that people need to get a grip but it's never so simple. As I said, if CIG hype and mismanage expectations while delivering builds that barely even function and have claimed they've undergone polish and rounds of QA testing it's no surprise people react badly.
Everybody shares the blame.
CIG have mismanaged hype for events that they hold which is why I was delighted to see them turn focus away from CitizenCon more than an hour before going live this time. Beyond that, why shouldn't we get excited for things being brought to us that didn't exist before? I can't get behind the idea that it is somehow CIG's fault that some people react to hype like a dropped bottle of coke being opened.
Maybe with almost none of those delivered, people get a little frustrated when they're shown new features like faceIP when what they were initially promised is nowhere close to being delivered.
I'd love a game where new things are added every week... as long as there's a basic game and those things are actually added instead of promised and a few years later a fraction of those features are added and even those that are, are in a very basic form.
Endless features are great but the game as it is now is boring and as barebone as it gets.... the few leaked 3.0 videos don't seem to fix that (if they're legit).
I'm hoping there's more meat to it.
..Cake..
As for those who have joined up to SC backing the later large scope and design which included the possibility of full planet interaction and faceIP following R&D, some of which is starting to be delivered now after successful R&D....these people have much less to complain about. Things seem to be moving along at a reasonable pace for such a game even though there have been substantial unforeseen delays. For my personal hopes they are about a year behind where I expected / hoped they would be, that is a long time, but I can live with it, It is one hell of a large project.
"Endless features are great but the game as it is now is boring and as barebone as it gets.... the few leaked 3.0 videos don't seem to fix that (if they're legit).
I'm hoping there's more meat to it."
So no there are no 'endless features' as I have said before here, most the stuff they add were talked about pretty early on in the design process. Would like to know what vids you have seen for 3.0 as the only few I have seen floating about are very short bug report vids. I really think you should just probably hold off touching SC until 4.0, which judging by the maths applied to other subjects in this thread will arrive in exactly 1.6 years and is in no way a complete guess and we can take it as the new SC standard figure for accurate predictions.
Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.