Starting Cities

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 22,892
    waynejr2 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:

    And that person's friends can run to meet him/her as well.


    Solo. Got it. 
    It's weird to say that people have to be with people/around people every single moment of the game experience. Especially if this is supposed to be "a world".

    Heck, I live in a city and I can walk down certain streets at certain times of the day and not see people.



    And some people go to the bathroom in groups!  haha.
    Ok, you win this round ...
    KyleranMrMelGibson



  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,174
    I can't speak for anyone else who played EQ when it launched back in 1999. However, I know for a fact, I played the game pretty much without real life friends. Anyone I grouped with was a complete stranger, whom I had never met before. I'm sure Pantheon won't be more strict than EQ was regarding starting locations or being able to group with friends, but I think it's funny to hear people say it's the end of the world if they can't group from the minute they log into the game. Has the world devolved into such an anti-social society that it's now taboo to group with random strangers? You know, it's ok to make new friends, just make sure they aren't handing out candy and you should be fine.
    DullahanMendelsvannMrMelGibson

  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    Rhoklaw said:

     Has the world devolved into such an anti-social society that it's now taboo to group with random strangers?
    No, but the world has devolved into misquoting others early and often.

    My simple question about whether and how to accommodate friends who want to start the game together has been misquoted as essentially advocating for:

    1. Instant ports, everywhere, all the time;

    2. No challenging travel, anywhere, ever;

    3. Never group with anyone you don't already know;

    4. No travel waiting time;

    5. Wanting a game like WoW;

    6. EZ mode play;

    7. Dogs and cats, sleeping together; and

    8. The coming of the end of days.

    Oh and I left out a call for communal restrooms.

    But that is so typical of this forum. Misquote someone, accuse them of wanting a WoW clone, then bang on about how uber you are and how uber things were back in the day. 

    if I had posted "Players should be able to drink water," there are posters who would scream "What? You mean just GET water? You should have to earn that water. There should be a quest - no, an epic quest, for your first drink of water. No water until at least level 15. Meanwhile drink mud out of a bootprint. Players today just want water to be easy. Blah, blah, give me a freakin break blah.
    KyleranMrMelGibson

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,347
    edited October 12
    Amathe said:
    Rhoklaw said:

     Has the world devolved into such an anti-social society that it's now taboo to group with random strangers?
    No, but the world has devolved into misquoting others early and often.

    My simple question about whether and how to accommodate friends who want to start the game together has been misquoted as essentially advocating for:

    1. Instant ports, everywhere, all the time;

    2. No challenging travel, anywhere, ever;

    3. Never group with anyone you don't already know;

    4. No travel waiting time;

    5. Wanting a game like WoW;

    6. EZ mode play;

    7. Dogs and cats, sleeping together; and

    8. The coming of the end of days.

    Oh and I left out a call for communal restrooms.

    But that is so typical of this forum. Misquote someone, accuse them of wanting a WoW clone, then bang on about how uber you are and how uber things were back in the day. 

    if I had posted "Players should be able to drink water," there are posters who would scream "What? You mean just GET water? You should have to earn that water. There should be a quest - no, an epic quest, for your first drink of water. No water until at least level 15. Meanwhile drink mud out of a bootprint. Players today just want water to be easy. Blah, blah, give me a freakin break blah.
    Your issue is not nearly as benign as you portray it. It's that many of us see this issue as a feature, not a defect, and changing something like travel is a serious threat to gameplay.

    Even if it's a one time thing, those types of changes are a slippery slope and a departure from the design ethos necessary for creating a virtual world rather than just another online video game.
    Post edited by Dullahan on
    LegotheHutt


  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,615
    Steve said:
    Rhoklaw said:

     Has the world devolved into such an anti-social society that it's now taboo to group with random strangers?
    No, but the world has devolved into misquoting others early and often.

    My simple question about whether and how to accommodate friends who want to start the game together has been misquoted as essentially advocating for:

    1. Instant ports, everywhere, all the time;

    2. No challenging travel, anywhere, ever;

    3. Never group with anyone you don't already know;

    4. No travel waiting time;

    5. Wanting a game like WoW;

    6. EZ mode play;

    7. Dogs and cats, sleeping together; and

    8. The coming of the end of days.

    Oh and I left out a call for communal restrooms.

    But that is so typical of this forum. Misquote someone, accuse them of wanting a WoW clone, then bang on about how uber you are and how uber things were back in the day. 

    if I had posted "Players should be able to drink water," there are posters who would scream "What? You mean just GET water? You should have to earn that water. There should be a quest - no, an epic quest, for your first drink of water. No water until at least level 15. Meanwhile drink mud out of a bootprint. Players today just want water to be easy. Blah, blah, give me a freakin break blah.

    True!
    LegotheHuttMrMelGibson
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  • ZuljanZuljan Member UncommonPosts: 107
    edited October 13
    I think fast travel breaks immersion in EQ and pantheon for a variety of reasons. Even if you somehow know every mob's spawn point, spawn timer, aggro ranges (this varies greatly), night and day cycle (more powerful creatures at night many of which see through invis and varying aggro ranges), patrol routes (these aren't simply 2 point single line segements; rather, they spider and fork), etc. If you somehow manage all of this (which is ridiculously difficult especially in later level zones with copious amounts of mobs) there are still instances in each zone where you will get more than 1 mob crossing your path no matter what, some seeing invis. There are also zones where your vision is limited, and depending on what race you choose your vision could be even worse at night or in fog, poor faction with the zone NPCs could increase aggro range etc (this just adds more detail/immersion to races, areas, similar to cultural/anatomical differences we see in various races in the real world which give it character/diversity and reinforces the theme of respecting/fearing your environments). Your elven friends in group can lead the way in the dark with good vision, your halfling friend can fit through small spaces and usually have a sneak mechanism. I could go on, but all the little traits affect travel, immersion, and depth/player skill.

    If you're a character without invis or a port (teleporting in EQ still only gets you semi-close to your zone or destination, often times you'll still have to trek at least another 5-10 minutes), you're going to have to develop a lot more skill in paying attention to mobs, zones, and how to find your group if someone left and you have to go alone to the dungeon. Travel never becomes trivial until you're way higher level than the zone, and basically it's just an added layer/depth of gameplay, requiring more player knowledge/skill (just wait until you see how many people die or can't find their way to you in a huge zone, player skill can be easily revealed before the dungeon crawling even begins).

    Travel also gives zones a notorious reputation or "fear factor" that everyone is afraid to tread there alone etc (again little things like this really help bring the world to life and give it character, forcing you to respect your environment at all times, which ends up creating a rush of adrenaline everywhere you travel, sometimes being forced to gamble and sprint to a zoneline, with a full train in tow). It's inaccurate to talk in extremes (everyone, no one, etc), but for those on the fence about the time, skill, or other details involved with travel, I really think you will eventually come to find it a rewarding/more immersive experience. The added difficulty, danger, and thrill just makes it that much more rewarding to conquer in the end.
    Post edited by Zuljan on
  • DaranarDaranar Walkersville, MDMember UncommonPosts: 223
    svann said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    The only people who are against immersive forms of travel are the so called "I don't have time to sit around for 5 minutes on a boat, because my time is precious" crowd.
    Whenever you start out "The only people who...." you are almost certainly wrong and in this case you certainly are. 

    Many people in many threads have brought up the point that when you have a group and one has to leave the group generally does not have patience to wait 20 minutes for a replacement to find his way.  Its not always about my time, its often about the group's time.  Im not sure how you could not get that unless you are one of those people that just solo and never group?
    This is kinda proving Rhoklaw's point.   The mature crowd tries when possible to say, "Hey i'll need to be logging for dinner in 15min, you guys wanna start looking for a replacement?"  And that gives the replacement time to be found, and travel to where he needs to be, whether zone in for CotH like spells or my favorite, to be picked up by a group's bard playing invis to get them into camp before a group member leaves.  Strategy extends beyond the fight for some people.  

    I think what Rhoklaw said in his original point was spot on about the communities.  These newer handholder games don't even have to address this stuff anymore because camps are gone and so too are gone the days of spending hours with a group, where it makes sense to travel distances because you may be there for hours cycling through a few group members.  I'm very excited to have a game like Pantheon stick to the old ways because there is a crowd for it.  And some of these newer MMO guys might complain but that's why they won't flock to Pantheon because it's not a game for them and that's OK.
    DullahanRhoklawGyva02

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  • svannsvann san jose, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,996
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:

    And that person's friends can run to meet him/her as well.


    Solo. Got it. 
    No, if you want to join your friends  then it is possible for your friends  to come find you as a group, not solo.
  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    svann said:
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:

    And that person's friends can run to meet him/her as well.


    Solo. Got it. 
    No, if you want to join your friends  then it is possible for your friends  to come find you as a group, not solo.
    Oh? Are these friends all in the same place?  How far do they have to travel SOLO at level 1 before they can become a group? Cross-continent? Cross-world?

    I realize almost no one read my OP and folks are still just assuming erroneously that this is all a pitch for fast travel, but of course there is no question that friends can eventually hook up in game by traveling to meet one another. That is obvious and not in need of discussion. We have all played these games before and know that. 

    The issue is what if anything can be done to enable friends to START OUT playing together without having to limit themselves to just one or two races/classes to make that possible (the alternative being trying to cross the whole damn world at level 1). 

    Now watch as someone else posts "I think fast travel is a bad thing because ...." and reinforce my statement that no one reads what I write lmao. 
    ZuljanMendelKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ZuljanZuljan Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Amathe said:
    svann said:
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:

    And that person's friends can run to meet him/her as well.


    Solo. Got it. 
    No, if you want to join your friends  then it is possible for your friends  to come find you as a group, not solo.
    Oh? Are these friends all in the same place?  How far do they have to travel SOLO at level 1 before they can become a group? Cross-continent? Cross-world?

    I realize almost no one read my OP and folks are still just assuming erroneously that this is all a pitch for fast travel, but of course there is no question that friends can eventually hook up in game by traveling to meet one another. That is obvious and not in need of discussion. We have all played these games before and know that. 

    The issue is what if anything can be done to enable friends to START OUT playing together without having to limit themselves to just one or two races/classes to make that possible (the alternative being trying to cross the whole damn world at level 1). 

    Now watch as someone else posts "I think fast travel is a bad thing because ...." and reinforce my statement that no one reads what I write lmao. 
    haha, speaking only for myself, I was responding to a few people in here talking about fast travel pros and cons. Wish we had more insight to help answer your original question. What we do know is the world map. You can generally see which races will start close together, and obviously once the game has been out a few months, if you are a porting class or just have money, you can give your newbie friends some cash to get to you or vice versa (i forgot they have the level down mechanism to play with friends as well). 

    In the end I would expect a system that is somewhere in the upper middle threshold for difficulty in starting with friends. We would also have to take faction into account, for evil races like Skar are going to be Kill on sight to many towns guards. Still impossible to say for sure the extent of any of this though.
  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    MendelZuljanRhoklawMrMelGibsonKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 22,892
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I would say there shouldn't be a disguise but that the player has to sneak, hide, skulk in order to get around OR if there is a disguise then in certain instances there is a chance someone might see through it.

    If someone is in a hostile city then the game play should reflect that. That could actually be very exciting.
    ZuljanRhoklawDullahanMrMelGibson



  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 1,810
    edited October 13
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I like the idea of a temporary disguise.  I'd cap it at level 2 or 2 hours, though.  And if people want hardcore, have the default bind be in that room.  This would give the character 2 hours to find a bind in a safer place, or give them a chance to learn the local NPCs for when they have to navigate past the locals.  I would even consider adding a 'cost' to the disguise, in the form of an XP penalty, or a preexisting quest that has a negative effect until completed (for orcs, report to the Orc Ambassador).

    I don't like having in-game skills such as sneak, hide, go invisible, etc., as @Sovrath said, because that puts these skills / tools in the hands of 1st level characters.  I feel these abilities are more advanced than entry level skills.
    Post edited by Mendel on

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • ZuljanZuljan Member UncommonPosts: 107
    edited October 13
    Sovrath said:
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I would say there shouldn't be a disguise but that the player has to sneak, hide, skulk in order to get around OR if there is a disguise then in certain instances there is a chance someone might see through it.

    If someone is in a hostile city then the game play should reflect that. That could actually be very exciting.
    I actually really like this concept. If executed properly, it still plays into the risk vs reward style of Pantheon as well. Just passed this along to the devs. Nice one boys
    Post edited by Zuljan on
    Amathe
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,174
    Amathe said:
    svann said:
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:

    And that person's friends can run to meet him/her as well.


    Solo. Got it. 
    No, if you want to join your friends  then it is possible for your friends  to come find you as a group, not solo.
    Oh? Are these friends all in the same place?  How far do they have to travel SOLO at level 1 before they can become a group? Cross-continent? Cross-world?

    I realize almost no one read my OP and folks are still just assuming erroneously that this is all a pitch for fast travel, but of course there is no question that friends can eventually hook up in game by traveling to meet one another. That is obvious and not in need of discussion. We have all played these games before and know that. 

    The issue is what if anything can be done to enable friends to START OUT playing together without having to limit themselves to just one or two races/classes to make that possible (the alternative being trying to cross the whole damn world at level 1). 

    Now watch as someone else posts "I think fast travel is a bad thing because ...." and reinforce my statement that no one reads what I write lmao. 
    Again, if you ever played EQ, which I said Pantheon is more likely to be less strict in this regard, you just have to group with complete strangers or heaven forbid, make new friends. If that is not your style, you and your friend can take turns, leveling up characters that can group together until you are high enough level to meet up with your main characters. The point is, nothing is easy, but that doesn't make it impossible. Having choices with varying levels of difficulty is what made EQ a great game. Please stop trying to play victim in your own thread. No one is attacking you or like you claim, misquoting you. Based on some of your responses, it seems you are doing your best to create strawman arguments. You asked a question, a lot of people replied with several different answers. What's the big deal?

  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    Rhoklaw said:

    Please stop trying to play victim in your own thread. 
    As the song says. It's my party and I'll cry if I want to. 
    RhoklawKyleranXarko

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 22,892
    Mendel said:
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I like the idea of a temporary disguise.  I'd cap it at level 2 or 2 hours, though.  And if people want hardcore, have the default bind be in that room.  This would give the character 2 hours to find a bind in a safer place, or give them a chance to learn the local NPCs for when they have to navigate past the locals.  I would even consider adding a 'cost' to the disguise, in the form of an XP penalty, or a preexisting quest that has a negative effect until completed (for orcs, report to the Orc Ambassador).

    I don't like having in-game skills such as sneak, hide, go invisible, etc., as @Sovrath said, because that puts these skills / tools in the hands of 1st level characters.  I feel these abilities are more advanced than entry level skills.
    Not really "sneaking" in the way you are thinking.

    More like Dungeons and Dragon's Online or Elder Scrolls Online where it's not "a skill" but something anyone can do.
    MrMelGibson



  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 1,810
    Sovrath said:
    Mendel said:
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I like the idea of a temporary disguise.  I'd cap it at level 2 or 2 hours, though.  And if people want hardcore, have the default bind be in that room.  This would give the character 2 hours to find a bind in a safer place, or give them a chance to learn the local NPCs for when they have to navigate past the locals.  I would even consider adding a 'cost' to the disguise, in the form of an XP penalty, or a preexisting quest that has a negative effect until completed (for orcs, report to the Orc Ambassador).

    I don't like having in-game skills such as sneak, hide, go invisible, etc., as @Sovrath said, because that puts these skills / tools in the hands of 1st level characters.  I feel these abilities are more advanced than entry level skills.
    Not really "sneaking" in the way you are thinking.

    More like Dungeons and Dragon's Online or Elder Scrolls Online where it's not "a skill" but something anyone can do.
    Sadly, this game is being made by Brad.  Sneaking has always been an in-game skill for him, and I've seen nothing to suggest that he is open to changing.  More likely, if it was done that way in EQ or VG, that's the way it will be in Pantheon.  (For the record, I like DDO and ESO and that way of sneaking far better than a skill).

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,347
    Amathe said:
    Here is one way to resolve the issue.

    1. Let players start their character out in any city;

    2. If the city is hostile to your race and class, upon log in (to an empty room) you will have a clickable temporary disguise in your backpack;

    3. The disguise allows you to move about the city without being attacked on the basis of your faction;

    4. You will appear to be someone indigenous to that city (so if you are an orc in a hobbit city, you will appear to be a hobbit);

    5. Again, the disguise is temporary (maybe for just 24 hours, or to level 5 - something short);

    6. Now you can find your friends in town, adventure with them some out in the noobie area, and head out to discover other places and cities together (with all the intended challenges).

    No fast travel required. 
    I'll explain why that would have a negative impact on the game, even if it's just a 1 time thing and not a symptom of a bigger problem.

    First, in a virtual world, the player should have to adapt - not the world.

    A proper world has rules, history and lore. The player should ignore them at their own peril. They definitely shouldn't encourage people to bypass that aspect of the game, or people will miss a big part of the narrative created to shape your experience as a player of a certain race, which is meant to connect the player to the world.

    If the lore establishes that a people or collective of people start out in an area, it's up to them to depart on their own and accept the risks. Automatically placing them in a different city contrary to lore, is fast travel.

    In fact, it's more than just fast travel. You want the game to bend multiple rules, including giving you instant access to an area that should be off limits and allowing your first level novice character to fool guards and inhabitants (as well as other players). Now we're not only disregarding lore, but the player is given the false impression that the inhabitants of the world are stupid, that the backstory doesn't matter, all while creating the expectation that concessions will be made when you don't want to play by the rules.

    All this also assumes that this won't lead to other problems down the road, like training, acquisition of new abilities, unique racial quests, faction benefits and other things that may not be available anywhere else.

    I'm sure this of course seems like another extreme assessment or taking you're suggestions out of context, but that's because you've become too accustomed to mmos as they currently exist.
    RhoklawGyva02Kyleran


  • svannsvann san jose, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,996
    edited October 13
    I really dont like the idea that any race can freely start out in any city without penalty.  I think that when you do that then people start asking "what is the best city to start in"?  Then the more people that go there the more incentive there is for everyone to go there because thats where all the groups are.

    Would you be happy if you were free to start in any city but with enough of a penalty to disincentivize starter city shopping for the majority of players?
    Post edited by svann on
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,347
    svann said:
    I really dont like the idea that any race can freely start out in any city without penalty.  I think that when you do that then people start asking "what is the best city to start in"?  Then the more people that go there the more incentive there is for everyone to go there because thats where all the groups are.

    Would you be happy if you were free to start in any city but with enough of a penalty to disincentivize starter city shopping for the majority of players?
    They already can by creating a character of a different race. If they want to be a different race, they should be able to travel. The game just shouldn't do it for them, because that suggests that what was created for players of that race do not matter, and that it's all generic. In most games it is, but it shouldn't be.
    Rhoklaw


  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    svann said:

    Would you be happy if you were free to start in any city but with enough of a penalty to disincentivize starter city shopping for the majority of players?
    Yes. But there is already a penalty. If you are an orc starting in an elf city in disquise, you won't have access there to orc oriented quests, orc lore, orc class related things, etc. Basically, for the privilege of grouping with friends to kill snakes and rats in the noobie yard, you miss out or postpone some things until you journey to your own capital.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • svannsvann san jose, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,996
    Amathe said:
    svann said:

    Would you be happy if you were free to start in any city but with enough of a penalty to disincentivize starter city shopping for the majority of players?
    Yes. But there is already a penalty. If you are an orc starting in an elf city in disquise, you won't have access there to orc oriented quests, orc lore, orc class related things, etc. Basically, for the privilege of grouping with friends to kill snakes and rats in the noobie yard, you miss out or postpone some things until you journey to your own capital.
    So you would have elf city quests be off limits to all other races.  They could probably do that, but I dont think many would find that to be acceptable. Sure maybe orc sounds reasonable, but hobbits cant do quests for elfs?  That doesnt seem right so far as lore goes.  And the people that actually travel from one city to another would say its not fair.  They get cutoff from quests just so you can have easy access to another city.  No I would say thats not a reasonable penalty, and I dont think they would implement it. 

    And an orc disguised as a hobbit is absurd.  Or was that what you were going for?  Are you just trolling yanking our chain?
  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,914
    What I said was that a hobbit town would not have orc oriented quests. There could of course be some  general quests. Bear in mind, however, that this is meant to be temporary. It is only to facilitate new players meeting up. Not for orcs to settle in and live in the Shire.

    The disquise would be magic, i.e a glamor. It is no more absurd than any other use of magic.

    Your dislike of the idea does not make me a troll. 
    MrMelGibson

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,174
    I remember when EQ2 came out and they had the Betrayal quests for good / evil factions to change sides. It was more of a grind than anything else, but eventually you would be allowed to live in opposing cities and start a new life. However, that doesn't really fix the problem of which city you start in. To be honest, I don't think they've specified who spawns at which cities. Chances are, this whole argument might have simply been for naught, until we get an official answer.
    Kyleran

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