I think that if your answer is "no" you need some answer better than a swipe at real world religion. The only comments I've labeled as "edgy" is those that are using this thread as an opportunity to voice their grievances with real world religion IE: "Religion divides people" and "fictional worlds are the only place a religion DOES belong".
I haven't labeled anyone as edgy for voicing legitimate reasons they don't want religion based on in-game factors.
So keep on trying with these attacks. For now I'm just going to take it that you're angry I talked back.
Aren't we just the snowflake. Now I'm attacking you lol. You sure don't like when someone disagrees with you. I'll stop so I stop hurting your feelings.
Calling it like it is. You came in posted a meme asserting I was a bible thumper who pushes my religion down everyone's throats. That's an attack. A particularly weak one given it's based on so many assumptions it didn't even hit close to home, but an attack.
I'm not offended, it just shows how riled up you get when someone disagrees with your worldview. Even if all they are disagreeing with is you and your buddies cramming your opinions on real world religions down our throats in a topic about religions in video games.
Essentially I'm just calling you on your hypocrisy. Kind of like when I had an ex would go on for hours about how dumb religious people were but couldn't tell me who the president during the Civil War was and believed the Roman Empire still existed. Or saw someone who I know swiped their social security card through an ATM and started crying (yes literally crying) when the money didn't come out posting the same crap on Facebook.
Bashing other people's beliefs doesn't make you clever. So if you are going do it on an unrelated forum in a topic that only has the barest of relevance to real world religion, expect me to make some quips at your expense. If you can't handle that then you really should look in the mirror before you start calling people "snowflakes".
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I do not want real world religions in the game world of the MMO. I want the game's religions within the game world itself. However, there are far too many stereotypes. Early RPGs and MMOs would have players in their Holy Quest to beat some DEMONLORD which is extremely Abrahamic, especially when one enters the final areas in some games and it is intended to look like a manifestation of hell itself.
However, the opposite is true too. Far too many RPG stories end with the party members killing of some religious zealot.
What I get offended at is the lack of story. Like I feel if I destroy one more DEMON or ZEALOT in a game, I am going to scream.
Its like the developers ran out of ideas and did "oh lets just use common real-world religious pretexts to fill our plot lines"
Its almost like a lack of imagination. Developers can do so much if they thought a little bit about it, but they don't and when push comes to shove, we are bombarded with stories filled with far too many stereotypes.
I think that if your answer is "no" you need some answer better than a swipe at real world religion. The only comments I've labeled as "edgy" is those that are using this thread as an opportunity to voice their grievances with real world religion IE: "Religion divides people" and "fictional worlds are the only place a religion DOES belong".
I haven't labeled anyone as edgy for voicing legitimate reasons they don't want religion based on in-game factors.
So keep on trying with these attacks. For now I'm just going to take it that you're angry I talked back.
Aren't we just the snowflake. Now I'm attacking you lol. You sure don't like when someone disagrees with you. I'll stop so I stop hurting your feelings.
Calling it like it is. You came in posted a meme asserting I was a bible thumper who pushes my religion down everyone's throats. That's an attack. A particularly weak one given it's based on so many assumptions it didn't even hit close to home, but an attack.
I'm not offended, it just shows how riled up you get when someone disagrees with your worldview. Even if all they are disagreeing with is you and your buddies cramming your opinions on real world religions down our throats in a topic about religions in video games.
Essentially I'm just calling you on your hypocrisy. Kind of like when I had an ex would go on for hours about how dumb religious people were but couldn't tell me who the president during the Civil War was and believed the Roman Empire still existed. Or saw someone who I know swiped their social security card through an ATM and started crying (yes literally crying) when the money didn't come out posting the same crap on Facebook.
Bashing other people's beliefs doesn't make you clever. So if you are going do it on an unrelated forum in a topic that only has the barest of relevance to real world religion, expect me to make some quips at your expense. If you can't handle that then you really should look in the mirror before you start calling people "snowflakes".
is there a church of "the correct definition of MMO"? I bet most here belongs to THAT church.
Not me. I belong to the church of "Don't give a rat's ass about the definition of an MMO".
Cryomatrix
Atheist
Actually that would make him an Agnostic.
Agnostics are by definition atheists. By not possibly knowing for sure if they exist or not, you claim that no currently defined God exists (anyone that seriously believes any of our made up gods exists would follow the teachings to the letter - but only a few people on Earth truly believe in God). Because that's agnosticism. Now atheism, is the disbelief OR lack of belief in gods or God. Therefore, by being unsure and considering it unprovable, you lack belief, making you atheist by force, by definition.
is there a church of "the correct definition of MMO"? I bet most here belongs to THAT church.
Not me. I belong to the church of "Don't give a rat's ass about the definition of an MMO".
Cryomatrix
Atheist
Actually that would make him an Agnostic.
Agnostics are by definition atheists. By not possibly knowing for sure if they exist or not, you claim that no currently defined God exists (anyone that seriously believes any of our made up gods exists would follow the teachings to the letter - but only a few people on Earth truly believe in God). Because that's agnosticism. Now atheism, is the disbelief OR lack of belief in gods or God. Therefore, by being unsure and considering it unprovable, you lack belief, making you atheist by force, by definition.
Shhhh...we are just joking around....you start getting all serious and the mods will shut this thread down.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think it's hilarious how most in this thread are totally ignoring the OP's whole point. He's talking about an in-game system where individuals can form communities and, depending on how large or successful that community is, he and his followers can get in-game powers and abilities.
What he's talking about really is just a sophisticated guild system as has been done in some games already (BDO and even Asheron's Call come to mind) but since he chose to use the word "religion" to describe his idea, a lot of you are responding like a dog who hears the word "squirrel."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think it's hilarious how most in this thread are totally ignoring the OP's whole point. He's talking about an in-game system where individuals can form communities and, depending on how large or successful that community is, he and his followers can get in-game powers and abilities.
What he's talking about really is just a sophisticated guild system as has been done in some games already (BDO and even Asheron's Call come to mind) but since he chose to use the word "religion" to describe his idea, a lot of you are responding like a dog who hears the word "squirrel."
yes an no, he not just wanting a refined improved guild system he "wants" religion but in a fantasy only. he does not want real world issues that come with it.
in his version magic powers exist an based on followers worship, new powers can be gained, with new spells that only devotees can use and players can gain ranks in said religion. in a sense it already exist we just gloss over it since we don't focus on the religious side.
shamans, druids, clerics, paladins, necro, all follow a belief to gain their power an some worship a god/spirt to gain said powers. only difference is your not bound to a guild type an cannot rise in ranks granting power to others.
i would not mind seen a flesh out version of his idea if it was done well but odds are good that it either be water down version of nothing new, from fear of offended zealots or a complex system that be used to push agenda an create propaganda.
I've not seen any games allowing seaverd heads, shemagh scarf's and beard collecting. Heads, Ears, fingers were collected by past religeons and military. I would not advise opening up that can of worms. Some of this still goes on in the real world.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
I've not seen any games allowing seaverd heads, shemagh scarf's and beard collecting. Heads, Ears, fingers were collected by past religeons and military. I would not advise opening up that can of worms. Some of this still goes on in the real world.
Mortal Online allows the collection of heads. And...
Agree 100%. It's not necessary. Especially don't like being forced to choose some fake religion, or losing out on in game benefits because I don't pick one.
I've not seen any games allowing seaverd heads, shemagh scarf's and beard collecting. Heads, Ears, fingers were collected by past religeons and military. I would not advise opening up that can of worms. Some of this still goes on in the real world.
Several games allowed players to collect severed heads of other players. UO was one example.
Agree 100%. It's not necessary. Especially don't like being forced to choose some fake religion, or losing out on in game benefits because I don't pick one.
I'd rather have the choice of something else besides melee, magic and crafting. Religion could provide a relatively simple-to-implement form of alternate progression. You'd not be 'losing out on in-game benefits' any more than someone playing a mage rather than a warrior.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Agree 100%. It's not necessary. Especially don't like being forced to choose some fake religion, or losing out on in game benefits because I don't pick one.
In my system, there would also be a bonus for no religion or all the pseudo-religions would have some sort of restriction system. Like my Red Bull religion, you couldn't use a 2h weapon or a shield because you always needed one hand free for that red bull in your hand .
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
is there a church of "the correct definition of MMO"? I bet most here belongs to THAT church.
Not me. I belong to the church of "Don't give a rat's ass about the definition of an MMO".
Cryomatrix
Atheist
Actually that would make him an Agnostic.
Agnostics are by definition atheists. By not possibly knowing for sure if they exist or not, you claim that no currently defined God exists (anyone that seriously believes any of our made up gods exists would follow the teachings to the letter - but only a few people on Earth truly believe in God). Because that's agnosticism. Now atheism, is the disbelief OR lack of belief in gods or God. Therefore, by being unsure and considering it unprovable, you lack belief, making you atheist by force, by definition.
That's... not what the term means.
It literally comes from Greek, meaning "without knowledge". The connotative meaning is "without knowledge of spiritual mysteries".
Atheism at its core claims God does not exist, therefore it does claim knowledge of spiritual mysteries. There may be such a thing as an agnostic-atheist, but the two are not synonymous.
Further, let me help you with your claim that "anyone that seriously believes any of our made up gods exists would follow the teachings to the letter". Firstly, you have a logical fallacy here (circular reasoning - supposing the conclusion 'gods are made up' is true without presenting evidence a.k.a. affirming the consequent).
However, let me address a slightly milder and perhaps broader thrust: "anyone that seriously believes any gods exist would follow the teachings [of that religion] to the letter". This is also false. Without getting too technical, it states in the code of canon law of the Catholic church that some teachings require a greater "assent of faith" than others. In other words, you don't have to accept everything the Catholic church teaches in order to be a good Catholic. Similar to science, there are layers of certainty when it comes to truth. What is emphasized is listening to one's conscience, which is generally pretty good advice regardless of whether or not one is a religious person (some things do require an assent of faith).
Therefore, I submit that it may also be possible to be a faithful-agnostic. In other words, you don't have to claim to know everything in order to be a faith-filled person. In fact, a great part of faith comes from not knowing, in my experience.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is a long tradition of religion in RPG going back to dungeons & dragons, it inspired the deities in warhammer, the aedric and daedric cults on tamriel. Unlike actual religions its often a divide between good and evil.
A song of ice and fire incorporate faiths with the old gods of the forest, the faith of the seven, the drowned god, the lord of light, the many-faced gods of death and are not clearly black and white like RPG gods tends to be.
There are still some faiths in games that resemble christianity, you have the brotherhood of steel in fallout and of course templars.
There will always be faith and spirituality within gaming and as long as it doesn't copy real world religions I don't see any problem with it.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Comments
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I'm not offended, it just shows how riled up you get when someone disagrees with your worldview. Even if all they are disagreeing with is you and your buddies cramming your opinions on real world religions down our throats in a topic about religions in video games.
Essentially I'm just calling you on your hypocrisy. Kind of like when I had an ex would go on for hours about how dumb religious people were but couldn't tell me who the president during the Civil War was and believed the Roman Empire still existed. Or saw someone who I know swiped their social security card through an ATM and started crying (yes literally crying) when the money didn't come out posting the same crap on Facebook.
Bashing other people's beliefs doesn't make you clever. So if you are going do it on an unrelated forum in a topic that only has the barest of relevance to real world religion, expect me to make some quips at your expense. If you can't handle that then you really should look in the mirror before you start calling people "snowflakes".
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally, I like the term "heathen".
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Bully Online (OWPVP FFA Griefing = Emergent Gameplay)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, the opposite is true too.
Far too many RPG stories end with the party members killing of some religious zealot.
What I get offended at is the lack of story.
Like I feel if I destroy one more DEMON or ZEALOT in a game, I am going to scream.
Its like the developers ran out of ideas and did "oh lets just use common real-world religious pretexts to fill our plot lines"
Its almost like a lack of imagination.
Developers can do so much if they thought a little bit about it, but they don't and when push comes to shove, we are bombarded with stories filled with far too many stereotypes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What he's talking about really is just a sophisticated guild system as has been done in some games already (BDO and even Asheron's Call come to mind) but since he chose to use the word "religion" to describe his idea, a lot of you are responding like a dog who hears the word "squirrel."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
yes an no, he not just wanting a refined improved guild system he "wants" religion but in a fantasy only. he does not want real world issues that come with it.
in his version magic powers exist an based on followers worship, new powers can be gained, with new spells that only devotees can use and players can gain ranks in said religion. in a sense it already exist we just gloss over it since we don't focus on the religious side.
shamans, druids, clerics, paladins, necro, all follow a belief to gain their power an some worship a god/spirt to gain said powers. only difference is your not bound to a guild type an cannot rise in ranks granting power to others.
i would not mind seen a flesh out version of his idea if it was done well but odds are good that it either be water down version of nothing new, from fear of offended zealots or a complex system that be used to push agenda an create propaganda.
MAGA
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
It literally comes from Greek, meaning "without knowledge". The connotative meaning is "without knowledge of spiritual mysteries".
Atheism at its core claims God does not exist, therefore it does claim knowledge of spiritual mysteries. There may be such a thing as an agnostic-atheist, but the two are not synonymous.
Further, let me help you with your claim that "anyone that seriously believes any of our made up gods exists would follow the teachings to the letter". Firstly, you have a logical fallacy here (circular reasoning - supposing the conclusion 'gods are made up' is true without presenting evidence a.k.a. affirming the consequent).
However, let me address a slightly milder and perhaps broader thrust: "anyone that seriously believes any gods exist would follow the teachings [of that religion] to the letter". This is also false. Without getting too technical, it states in the code of canon law of the Catholic church that some teachings require a greater "assent of faith" than others. In other words, you don't have to accept everything the Catholic church teaches in order to be a good Catholic. Similar to science, there are layers of certainty when it comes to truth. What is emphasized is listening to one's conscience, which is generally pretty good advice regardless of whether or not one is a religious person (some things do require an assent of faith).
Therefore, I submit that it may also be possible to be a faithful-agnostic. In other words, you don't have to claim to know everything in order to be a faith-filled person. In fact, a great part of faith comes from not knowing, in my experience.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A song of ice and fire incorporate faiths with the old gods of the forest, the faith of the seven, the drowned god, the lord of light, the many-faced gods of death and are not clearly black and white like RPG gods tends to be.
There are still some faiths in games that resemble christianity, you have the brotherhood of steel in fallout and of course templars.
There will always be faith and spirituality within gaming and as long as it doesn't copy real world religions I don't see any problem with it.