Crowfall and Camelot Unchained will be PVP MMOs right?
Yep, again the OP doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. There is a lot of interest in PVP in MMOs, it just hasn't been done right in a long time. The examples they used were niche games with limited appeal for many other reasons other than being PVP MMO games.
Then you are in for a very long wait with that wonder PVP game of yours, It will never happen, players enjoy different aspect in PVP, you can't implent ALL aspects in the same game and It magical works for everyone, It's like that dream MMO everyone dreams about that you will play for years, It's just that, a dream, so I say again, good luck.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never asked for a dream PVP MMO, I was just stating that there is an interest for it for sure. Both Crowfall and CU both a good following already. Even Albion Online had a huge surge in interest the several months and is still going pretty strong.
You sead there haven't been a PVP game done right, so a new MMO comes out with PVP, It's fun as hell Joe but It's boring as hell for for Jim but both enjoy PVP but not same kind of PVP.
Crowfall and Camelot Unchained will be PVP MMOs right?
Yep, again the OP doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. There is a lot of interest in PVP in MMOs, it just hasn't been done right in a long time. The examples they used were niche games with limited appeal for many other reasons other than being PVP MMO games.
Then you are in for a very long wait with that wonder PVP game of yours, It will never happen, players enjoy different aspect in PVP, you can't implent ALL aspects in the same game and It magical works for everyone, It's like that dream MMO everyone dreams about that you will play for years, It's just that, a dream, so I say again, good luck.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never asked for a dream PVP MMO, I was just stating that there is an interest for it for sure. Both Crowfall and CU both a good following already. Even Albion Online had a huge surge in interest the several months and is still going pretty strong.
You sead there haven't been a PVP game done right, so a new MMO comes out with PVP, It's fun as hell Joe but It's boring as hell for for Jim but both enjoy PVP but not same kind of PVP.
The difference is that CU and CF are not MMOs with Pvp, they are PvP mmos.
That crowd has now shifted to the FPS flavor of the month games that keep rolling out. The ones with 15-30 minute 'games' that feed the already ADD rattled brains of most gamers.
Basically any game where you drop down on some island somewhere and have x amount of time to gear up and try and survive. But generally only last a few minutes before you get killed by someone you dont even see.
But the rise of these games shows why PvP in MMOs was never really a good fit, because most 'traditional' mmo players are used to spending time in games they enjoy. Once 'faction pride' left MMos and any 'reward' for winning at PvP in an mmo then PvP became little more than another time sync ad since most of these PvP guys feel some need to 'win' at something PvP was dead.
Even FFXIV, ¨The KING¨ talking about PvE MMOs, have PvP with those 72 players BGS and Arenas, pretty much everysingle MMO out there have PvP and is probably the most played feature. As u can see, the PvP in the MMO world have been growing up for the last years.
But we are talking about OPvP, and ¨Gear Based PvP¨, Like we have in BDO online and everysingle Korean MMO out there. The PvP player want a balanced battlefield, not a PK system where gear always win over skill, that the problem With BDO and everysingle Korean MMO.
But the PvP is far from dead and is getting stronger everysingle day as we have better tech on games and internet conections to support that kind of gameplay in the MMO world.
There are a lot of players who like to play against other players; they play balanced games like moba, shooters, rts, and survival games. There is a niche who like a bigger setting where incomplete balance is just a challenge and opportunity to change tactics; they want their pvp mmo that "never has been done right". Then we have a large group of those who just enjoy pulling legs of spiders; they play pvp mmos and ruin it for the niche and the "carebears", but when they become the spider themselves or the "carebears" (content) dissapear, they leave for the next spider nest. Then there is a high percentage of mmo pve players ranging from casuals to hardcore, which are several groups but since we talk about pvp now..
This is why real pvp mmos will remain niche, and other "pvp mmo" will need to ditch the mmo part to become more horizontal (for balance) and cross into moba, fps and survival territory.
Crowfall and Camelot Unchained will be PVP MMOs right?
Yep, again the OP doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. There is a lot of interest in PVP in MMOs, it just hasn't been done right in a long time. The examples they used were niche games with limited appeal for many other reasons other than being PVP MMO games.
Then you are in for a very long wait with that wonder PVP game of yours, It will never happen, players enjoy different aspect in PVP, you can't implent ALL aspects in the same game and It magical works for everyone, It's like that dream MMO everyone dreams about that you will play for years, It's just that, a dream, so I say again, good luck.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never asked for a dream PVP MMO, I was just stating that there is an interest for it for sure. Both Crowfall and CU both a good following already. Even Albion Online had a huge surge in interest the several months and is still going pretty strong.
You sead there haven't been a PVP game done right, so a new MMO comes out with PVP, It's fun as hell Joe but It's boring as hell for for Jim but both enjoy PVP but not same kind of PVP.
The difference is that CU and CF are not MMOs with Pvp, they are PvP mmos.
They are still specific types of PvP though. CU as the spiritual successor to DAoC will lean heavily towards RvR if I'm not mistaken? Which would be of little interest to the PvPer who wants to attack anyone, anywhere, at any time. CF diversifies with its campaign system in an attempt to appeal to all PvPers, so that one might pull it off.
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My guess is there's no actual benefit from or purpose to BDOs PVP, hence little interest in it.
Add in the fact most PVPers wrote this one off long ago there's no surprise here.
Everyone knows that, if the Devs dont add PVE to a PVP game. The PVP game is dead.It dont matter what game...Even games with PVP are dead... Cough Darkfall...
Crowfall and Camelot Unchained will be PVP MMOs right?
Yep, again the OP doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. There is a lot of interest in PVP in MMOs, it just hasn't been done right in a long time. The examples they used were niche games with limited appeal for many other reasons other than being PVP MMO games.
Then you are in for a very long wait with that wonder PVP game of yours, It will never happen, players enjoy different aspect in PVP, you can't implent ALL aspects in the same game and It magical works for everyone, It's like that dream MMO everyone dreams about that you will play for years, It's just that, a dream, so I say again, good luck.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never asked for a dream PVP MMO, I was just stating that there is an interest for it for sure. Both Crowfall and CU both a good following already. Even Albion Online had a huge surge in interest the several months and is still going pretty strong.
That there is a declared interest in MMORPGs with a greater PvP focus which has now been clearly perceived by game developers is incontestable.
I am quite interested in seeing how well this is realized in actual, marketable interest over time. I am similarly interested in how this will work out for games meant to appeal to those looking for game play similar to that of the earliest MMORPGs such as UO.
Ideally games of both types will draw enough interest so at least some of them will survive, so that players looking for these types of play will have more viable options than presently.
It would be quite something if over time there would be a major shift to these games once players unfamiliar with them learnt of the differences in play they provide in contrast to the game led experiences that have dominated now for some time.
Such would be a full circle I have long felt couldn't possibly occur.
I don't think PvPers are a niche group. I think people who want fully unrestricted PvP covering 100% of the map are a niche group.
I think most PvPers would be pretty content to have an area in a game with some cool resources to fight over in an unrestricted fashion as well as some cool mechanics that promote competition between willing PvPers in other areas.
I think a vocal minority are offended by the idea that somewhere in their world may be a carebear sticking to the safezones and not participating in PvP content that they can't kill.
I think the majority of people who say they hate PvP actually mean they hate being forced into PvP but can enjoy it if they enter it willingly either by going into PvP zones that don't cover like 70%-90% of the map or taking part in content they know is likely to lead to PvP.
I think that if a game were to give regular PvPers (and not griefers) what they wanted and regular PvEers (And not people afraid of PvP happening anywhere in their game) what they wanted that it could be quite succesful.
The issue is most games either say "We're going to cater to the carebears" or "We're going to cater to the griefers" and leave everyone saying "We'd like something between those two extremes" hanging.
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PVP is a huge part of BD and its one of the reasons the game is so successful today.
Apparently, the relative failure of that PvP server seems to prove that the vast, very vast majority prefers the more controlled PvP of the original game though.
It's not the first attempt of FFA PvP servers to be a niche and/or fail... UO had to add Trammel to survive, AC1's Darktide never held more than a tiny fraction of the whole game's population, DAoC's Mordred was a desert, and Shadowbane utterly failed.
The PvP games which survive and thrive all have some kind of limits to stop the mindless killing.
I don't care about that PVP channel because it has no meaning of what Black Desert is as a game.
I already said that its just a channel for people to hop on from time to time to get some pvp in with out losing anything. Another smart busines move by Pearl. I don't care if it only averages 100 people a day then good for Pearl to give those 100 a playground.
Black Desert has had pvp since day 1 way before that pvp channel and since day 1 the game has grown and expanded to about 8 different countries and still growing.
PVP is a main feature of Black Desert and that feature is 1 of the many that make up the hottest mmo on the market today.
Check Black Deserts YouTube channel and see how many videos they post on PVP. Check out the top streamers and see just how many of them pvp.
lol .. pvp is only niche in hybrid pvp/pve games. Pvp itself is bigger than all MMO (and i am using the "traditional" definition). MOBAs, PUGB, shooters, Overwatch ... you can't claim pvp is niche when these pvp centric games are the most popular online games.
lol .. pvp is only niche in hybrid pvp/pve games. Pvp itself is bigger than all MMO (and i am using the "traditional" definition). MOBAs, PUGB, shooters, Overwatch ... you can't claim pvp is niche when these pvp centric games are the most popular online games.
MOBAs and shooters and the ones you listed are casual PvP. BDO is pretty casual PvP cause you lose nothing when you die...dying in PVE is far worse than dying in PvP in BDO.
However. I meant PvP as in, full loot, deathmatch, lose levels/exp kinda PvP. EVE is the only sorta exception to that, but that is because it has lots of safe areas and tons of PvP content. But games like Darkfall or Shadowbane and many other hardcore niche PvP sandbox MMOs, you can lose hours, days or sometimes (like in EVE) months of progress. Lose a titan, and you are out a lot of ISK and time+resources spent getting it
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However. I meant PvP as in, full loot, deathmatch, lose levels/exp kinda PvP. EVE is the only sorta exception to that, but that is because it has lots of safe areas and tons of PvP content. But games like Darkfall or Shadowbane and many other hardcore niche PvP sandbox MMOs, you can lose hours, days or sometimes (like in EVE) months of progress. Lose a titan, and you are out a lot of ISK and time+resources spent getting it
Then clearly it is not that pvp is unpopular, it is the chance of losing everything is. This is no difference than saying Diablo 3 hardcore mode is less popular than the softcore mode, because of perma-death. It has NOTHING to do with pvp, and everything to do with risk (pvp or pve).
However. I meant PvP as in, full loot, deathmatch, lose levels/exp kinda PvP. EVE is the only sorta exception to that, but that is because it has lots of safe areas and tons of PvP content. But games like Darkfall or Shadowbane and many other hardcore niche PvP sandbox MMOs, you can lose hours, days or sometimes (like in EVE) months of progress. Lose a titan, and you are out a lot of ISK and time+resources spent getting it
Then clearly it is not that pvp is unpopular, it is the chance of losing everything is. This is no difference than saying Diablo 3 hardcore mode is less popular than the softcore mode, because of perma-death. It has NOTHING to do with pvp, and everything to do with risk (pvp or pve).
While true, then why do developers keep making sandbox full loot deathmatch MMOs when that is a very niche market? There is only one single PvE sandbox MMO (Ryzom), which has a far wider potential market for a good high quality MMO, than the non-stop full loot sandbox MMOs.
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While true, then why do developers keep making sandbox full loot deathmatch MMOs when that is a very niche market? There is only one single PvE sandbox MMO (Ryzom), which has a far wider potential market for a good high quality MMO, than the non-stop full loot sandbox MMOs.
You have to ask them. May be not everyone wants to be successful commercially? May be they just want to make what they like (not unlike some indies).
And it is not like anyone is pumping AAA resources into sandbox full loot deathmatch MMOs.
The thread title is misleading. "PVPers are very niche group" is completely false. You're looking at an extreme case in a stale genre, FFA PvP MMORPG's.
Look outside of MMORPG's and PvP is very popular.
As to BDO, I like the game. It has a bunch of interesting features but the PvP sucks. It's hugely gear based that no amount of skill can overcome.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
What PvP? BDO would be a great PvP MMO if it wasn't for the extreme gear disparities and the relentless gear grind and RNG. If a player knows that they will most likely get one shot on sight by higher geared players,then they will avoid PvP as much as possible. When gear lvl and acquiring it becomes such an integral part of the game,and the defining factor for the outcome of PvP combat is gear,that discourages new players from getting involved with PvP. And the fact that the free for all PvP server is empty,only makes it even more obvious that the "PvPers" in such games are really PvE farmers that use op gear to avoid any short of meaningful PvP interaction.
I'd love to PvP in BDO,but when you go and gate that content behind hours of daily PvE grinding,and moronic RNG that's an insult even to casino addicts,then at most I will life skill and do dailies.And if that's the case why play BDO in the first place? There are far better PvE MMOs out there.
So that's the real problem,and why the PvP channel is underpopulated in BDO. There are millions of players that play PvP only games. PvP is not a niche. PvP with gear grind,is.
My guess is there's no actual benefit from or purpose to BDOs PVP, hence little interest in it.
Add in the fact most PVPers wrote this one off long ago there's no surprise here.
Everyone knows that, if the Devs dont add PVE to a PVP game. The PVP game is dead.It dont matter what game...Even games with PVP are dead... Cough Darkfall...
You mean pure PVP game like CS ? i don't remember it have PVE . It all depend on what type of that game is .
What PvP? BDO would be a great PvP MMO if it wasn't for the extreme gear disparities and the relentless gear grind and RNG. If a player knows that they will most likely get one shot on sight by higher geared players,then they will avoid PvP as much as possible. When gear lvl and acquiring it becomes such an integral part of the game,and the defining factor for the outcome of PvP combat is gear,that discourages new players from getting involved with PvP. And the fact that the free for all PvP server is empty,only makes it even more obvious that the "PvPers" in such games are really PvE farmers that use op gear to avoid any short of meaningful PvP interaction.
I'd love to PvP in BDO,but when you go and gate that content behind hours of daily PvE grinding,and moronic RNG that's an insult even to casino addicts,then at most I will life skill and do dailies.And if that's the case why play BDO in the first place? There are far better PvE MMOs out there.
So that's the real problem,and why the PvP channel is underpopulated in BDO. There are millions of players that play PvP only games. PvP is not a niche. PvP with gear grind,is.
How is being highly geared any different than a max level or highly equipped player coming down on a noob and ganking him over and over and over with no threat to the PvPer?
That is what most PvP MMOs come down to. So nothing different.
FPS games are vastly different though, because in most PvP games (battlefield, call of duty, even planetside 1/2)...it doesn't ever come down to items or over leveled or over skilled, it comes down to pure skill. Same with Leagues of Legends and other MOBA style games...pure player skill and team coordination. No over leveled items or overpowered stats/levels.
However, MMOs "need" progression so any high level or high geared guy can come down and gank anyone with no threat, none of it is based on actual player skill in an MMO...just stats and items. Not different at all to what BDO has.
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Comments
The difference is that CU and CF are not MMOs with Pvp, they are PvP mmos.
But we are talking about OPvP, and ¨Gear Based PvP¨, Like we have in BDO online and everysingle Korean MMO out there. The PvP player want a balanced battlefield, not a PK system where gear always win over skill, that the problem With BDO and everysingle Korean MMO.
But the PvP is far from dead and is getting stronger everysingle day as we have better tech on games and internet conections to support that kind of gameplay in the MMO world.
There is a niche who like a bigger setting where incomplete balance is just a challenge and opportunity to change tactics; they want their pvp mmo that "never has been done right".
Then we have a large group of those who just enjoy pulling legs of spiders; they play pvp mmos and ruin it for the niche and the "carebears", but when they become the spider themselves or the "carebears" (content) dissapear, they leave for the next spider nest.
Then there is a high percentage of mmo pve players ranging from casuals to hardcore, which are several groups but since we talk about pvp now..
This is why real pvp mmos will remain niche, and other "pvp mmo" will need to ditch the mmo part to become more horizontal (for balance) and cross into moba, fps and survival territory.
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Everyone knows that, if the Devs dont add PVE to a PVP game. The PVP game is dead.It dont matter what game...Even games with PVP are dead... Cough Darkfall...
I retired retroactively..Haha
I am quite interested in seeing how well this is realized in actual, marketable interest over time. I am similarly interested in how this will work out for games meant to appeal to those looking for game play similar to that of the earliest MMORPGs such as UO.
Ideally games of both types will draw enough interest so at least some of them will survive, so that players looking for these types of play will have more viable options than presently.
It would be quite something if over time there would be a major shift to these games once players unfamiliar with them learnt of the differences in play they provide in contrast to the game led experiences that have dominated now for some time.
Such would be a full circle I have long felt couldn't possibly occur.
I think most PvPers would be pretty content to have an area in a game with some cool resources to fight over in an unrestricted fashion as well as some cool mechanics that promote competition between willing PvPers in other areas.
I think a vocal minority are offended by the idea that somewhere in their world may be a carebear sticking to the safezones and not participating in PvP content that they can't kill.
I think the majority of people who say they hate PvP actually mean they hate being forced into PvP but can enjoy it if they enter it willingly either by going into PvP zones that don't cover like 70%-90% of the map or taking part in content they know is likely to lead to PvP.
I think that if a game were to give regular PvPers (and not griefers) what they wanted and regular PvEers (And not people afraid of PvP happening anywhere in their game) what they wanted that it could be quite succesful.
The issue is most games either say "We're going to cater to the carebears" or "We're going to cater to the griefers" and leave everyone saying "We'd like something between those two extremes" hanging.
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You are missing whats right in front of your face.
Try looking at the Guild Ads in chat and see how many of them that say they pvp.
I don't care about that PVP channel because it has no meaning of what Black Desert is as a game.
I already said that its just a channel for people to hop on from time to time to get some pvp in with out losing anything. Another smart busines move by Pearl. I don't care if it only averages 100 people a day then good for Pearl to give those 100 a playground.
Black Desert has had pvp since day 1 way before that pvp channel and since day 1 the game has grown and expanded to about 8 different countries and still growing.
PVP is a main feature of Black Desert and that feature is 1 of the many that make up the hottest mmo on the market today.
Check Black Deserts YouTube channel and see how many videos they post on PVP. Check out the top streamers and see just how many of them pvp.
And most important,
Check the Guild Ads in chat.
However. I meant PvP as in, full loot, deathmatch, lose levels/exp kinda PvP. EVE is the only sorta exception to that, but that is because it has lots of safe areas and tons of PvP content. But games like Darkfall or Shadowbane and many other hardcore niche PvP sandbox MMOs, you can lose hours, days or sometimes (like in EVE) months of progress. Lose a titan, and you are out a lot of ISK and time+resources spent getting it
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My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
And it is not like anyone is pumping AAA resources into sandbox full loot deathmatch MMOs.
Look outside of MMORPG's and PvP is very popular.
As to BDO, I like the game. It has a bunch of interesting features but the PvP sucks. It's hugely gear based that no amount of skill can overcome.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
BDO is not even close to having well-designed PvP. It's a shallow clusterfuck where RNG-based gear rolls and cash shop items determine dominance
I self identify as a monkey.
BDO would be a great PvP MMO if it wasn't for the extreme gear disparities and the relentless gear grind and RNG.
If a player knows that they will most likely get one shot on sight by higher geared players,then they will avoid PvP as much as possible.
When gear lvl and acquiring it becomes such an integral part of the game,and the defining factor for the outcome of PvP combat is gear,that discourages new players from getting involved with PvP.
And the fact that the free for all PvP server is empty,only makes it even more obvious that the "PvPers" in such games are really PvE farmers that use op gear to avoid any short of meaningful PvP interaction.
I'd love to PvP in BDO,but when you go and gate that content behind hours of daily PvE grinding,and moronic RNG that's an insult even to casino addicts,then at most I will life skill and do dailies.And if that's the case why play BDO in the first place?
There are far better PvE MMOs out there.
So that's the real problem,and why the PvP channel is underpopulated in BDO.
There are millions of players that play PvP only games.
PvP is not a niche.
PvP with gear grind,is.
That is what most PvP MMOs come down to. So nothing different.
FPS games are vastly different though, because in most PvP games (battlefield, call of duty, even planetside 1/2)...it doesn't ever come down to items or over leveled or over skilled, it comes down to pure skill. Same with Leagues of Legends and other MOBA style games...pure player skill and team coordination. No over leveled items or overpowered stats/levels.
However, MMOs "need" progression so any high level or high geared guy can come down and gank anyone with no threat, none of it is based on actual player skill in an MMO...just stats and items. Not different at all to what BDO has.
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