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Why WoW's Class Design is flawed and PVP will never be balanced
Eronakis
Member UncommonPosts: 2,248
I am looking at this from a DESIGNER's perspective.
Before I can go into what class balance is, we must define what a Class is.
Class = An avatar of a role.
What does that mean? A class is the character output of a role that is being produced via the player.
*Many players have a severe case of massive misunderstanding what class balance actually is. Let me express WHAT it is NOT.
Class Balance is not...
"Class balance means all of the classes are the same which would make gameplay boring."
or
"There is no such thing as class balance or if there is class balance it can never be achieved."
Rarely, I'll see this comment...
"Class balance means when each class has an opportunity to compete."
The above comment is very close to what Class Balance really is but it's not complete. However, it should read like this...
"Class balance means when each class has an opportunity to compete within their archetype role."
How to achieve Class Balance?
Class Balance is more or less a bottom up approach that is balanced within layers. Each layer of balance should complement the previous layer for consistency. Essentially, there are three layers of when you balance classes. Below I'll explain them a little further.
Layer 1: Define the Roles (The foundation of class balance)
This layer is the foundation for all of your classes. You determine what are the primary roles of classes you want to fit into gameplay. I'll keep it easy and say that Tanking, DPS, and Healing are primary roles. I won't go into secondary roles because this thread will turn into a novel. I want to try and keep this as simple as possible.
Once the archetype (roles) are defined then you establish the rule set for those roles. On as basic level we'll do damage to mitigation ratio.
Tank: Moderate Damage output and Moderate Mitigation
Caster DPS: High Damage output and Low Mitigation
Melee DPS: High Damage output (sliver below Caster DPS) and Medium Low Mitigation (Sliver above Caster DPS)
Healers: Low Damage output and High Mitigation via Heals.
There
are other things that go into defining the role and other rule sets
that would compliment whatever design is being used. So once Layer 1 is
defined and balanced you move onto Layer 2.
**This is where WoW's classes will always be in perpetual imbalance. Simply because Layer 1 is broken. Blizzard doesn't take in account the rule set of each role and their basic damage/mitigation output should be. Hybrid and Tank classes can out perform in damage over most pure DPS classes which were simply designed to produce massive damage with low mitigation input. When you choose a role that a class can provide you're in agreement that you're class excels in one role over another. This does not constitute a Rock/Papers/Scissors Class Balance approach.
Layer 2A: Balance All Classes that share the same Role.
This layer is only used if you have more than 1 class within the defined roles from Layer 1.
If
there are 3 classes that share the same role,(tank, Caster DPS, Melee DPS,
Healers), you then balance those classes within their respective
archetype. Meaning that each tank has an equal opportunity to tank
efficiently. This does not constitute all tanks will be the same. There
should be different path ways to tank for each class in a unique and
fun way. Whatever those paths are should be up the creative mind of the
class designer.
**For WoW, this is where the same utility abilities are simply distributed to nearly every class. I have never seen it this bad in a long time. Nearly, every class has a gap closer, able to spell lock/silence which completely locks down a player, and able to cc/stun without a heal. I feel sorry for Mages in PVP right now because they literally have zero advantage to most classes because of the former.
Layer 2B: Pure Classes vs. Hybrid Classes
Also in Layer 2 you would determine what classes would be Pure and what classes would be Hybrid. Let me define those.
Pure Class: A class in which can only perform 1 role
Hybrid Class: A class in which can perform more than 1 role. (usually 2 roles).
Most of the time you'll see more hybrid classes than pure classes to give the player more of a creative choice to choose from.
In this layer you could already break the class design before you even get to Layer 3 because of Hybrid Classes. Hybrid Classes are very tricky because they can't be as powerful as a Pure Class and yet they must still be valuable to a group.
Usually Hybrid classes are the soloable classes if the gameplay is focused on group based content.
I think a good direction to balance hybrid classes with pure classes is to allow Hybrid classes to act as a support class in a way. What I mean is, if a Hybrid Class can perform 2 roles, DPS and Healing, then reduce those roles by 30%. Meaning that if a Pure DPS and a pure Healer class can DPS and Heal 100%, then a Hybrid class can DPS and Heal at 70%. This way a Hybrid class is still effective and valuable in a group. They act as support DPS and Healing.
A Hybrid class should NEVER EVER be on par with a Pure Class because of their multiple roles. If a Hybrid class is on par with a Pure class then more than likely those pure classes will become obsolete. They won't be as valuable.
Ask you self this question. If a Mage is a pure DPS class that can do on par damage as a Sorcerer that can also heal, which class do you think would have a better chance at being more effective? As you can see this is an imbalance.
*In this portion of the balance is what literally breaks WoW's Class Design. Within their spec system, Hybrids are more powerful and have more utility. Hybrids/Melees rule wow's PVP currently.
Comments
Layer 3: Skill/Ability/Spell Balance & HP/Mana Balance
This is the top layer of class balance and always the most tricky. There are tons of variables because each class has a unique set of abilities to perform. Layer 3 is more than likely the layer most will spend time balancing their classes. A good design would keep in mind the following two layers and design abilities that won't go against those rule sets already established.
Also in Layer 3 you would determine when a class gets an ability when progressing. For an example, if a Warrior had Deadly Strike at level 1 that did 10 damage and a mob at level one had an ability that did 10 damage where both of you had 100 HP. Whoever struck first would win. So then you would adjust damage/HP/Mana levels accordingly and add in more abilities to make it fun and balanced in gameplay.
As you can see Layer 3 has a lot of variables to consider. Usually, this is one of the places where class balance can become imbalance.
Penalty. This is another way to balance very over powering abilities a class may have. Try and have the player to strategically use more powerful abilities instead of using them at their leisure.
Also in Layer 3 you would compliment whatever combat mechanics you have to balance your classes with that.
Layer 3 should also consist of player testing and tweaking to everything mentioned above.
What does Class Balance Mean? Can it be achieved?
Yes Class Balance can be achieved. Before I go on let me tell you what class balance is not. Class Balance does not constitute that all classes are the same with the same abilities or roles.
Class Balance is when your role are balanced and the classes that share the same role are balanced with each other. All classes within that role should have an equal opportunity to be as effective. That if more than 1 class within an archetype should have different functions to perform their desired role to have a good diversity of classes.
If a Hybrid class is more effective then a Pure class then that is not class balance but an imbalance.
Layer 3 with different abilities may sway classes to be tweaked more than others, but if the design stays true to Layer 1 and Layer 2, it should make Layer 3 a bit easier to tweak.
/rant over I am tiredThey designed the game so that players play SOLO and ALL the time doing quests that offer xp and that again is just a dumb idea that makes no sense at all.Then after days/weeks/months maybe a year of soloing they are asked to RAID ...roflamo,so they have never been in a group and asked to raid now,just dumb.
Back on the mention of quests giving xp.XP is SUPPOSE to be a representation of that classes skill level/ability,the more xp the more skilled that class is.Well how did their team of brilliant minds decide that doing some non related meaningless quest should allow that class to be more skilled,better at everything it does?The ONLY way xp makes sense from questing is if it is completely related to the skill of that class and or they want to have some sort of questing xp/levels but no way should linear questing be related to a class skill/abilities.
This is why you don't just COPY some other developer when making game unless you fully understand wtf you are copying.As well trying to give your OWN take on ideas is fine and could be good but when nothing makes sense you might as well get into a different line of work.But hey guess what,millions of gamer's seem to like games that don't make sense,good job Blizzard,your better at making money than making games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm assuming the folks at Blizzard try their very best to come up with ways to improve balance, and my guess is in the right hands most classes are competitive more or less.
So many factors influence the outcome outside of the actual avatar design, hard to determine what is actually a balance issue at times I'm sure, but one measure I'm certain is mostly useless are player complaints about lack of balance.
Right next to player suggestions on how to best design games.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
you have to play smarter when facing the classes that "pawn" you, making use of every single advantage you can get. At the same time, the game is more forgiving when pitted against the classes that you "own".
A lot of issues with class balance come purely from bugs... unintended consequences of changing a line of code. Sometimes it can take a long time to actually find the true culprit of a bug when a lot of things can possibly be feeding it.
And lastly, and probably the most important... players themselves are unpredictable. Classes are designed to be played a certain way by the Designers. Players think up all sort of creative ways to play them. Sometimes their unintended use of this ability or that item yields results that no one expected... some may call this an exploit. Can you fault the players for some oversight by the Designers? PVP, by nature is the art of looking for an exploit to use against your opponent to win.
You can create a game with only one class and only one set of skills, and only one weapon and there will still be those who will dominate and those who will be dominated. Balance is achieved when all things are being equal... the one thing that rarely ever is equal is the player.
If class A is weak, you play class B. Pretty simple. If weapon A is weak, you use weapon B. Pretty simple. If you don't play well, you learn to play better. Pretty simple.
People always think the flaw is with the class, the skills provided, or the weapons... well EVERYONE has the same access to all of that. The only thing that is unique to them is them.
Since "balance" is a large issue in most games (all games?) it clearly isn't an easy thing to do. I just highly doubt that some of the best paid designers in the world are sitting in a room with their heads in their hands and saying "well, I'm out of ideas".
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You wouldn't know anything about MMORPG definitions and beating dead horses would you?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
"Rock is overpowered please nerf. Paper is fine. -Scissors"
[Quote]
Rock-Best Defense, questionable speed, its special ability to gather no moss is useless though.
Scissors-Best Attack, moderate speed, however its recoil is aweful.
Paper-Underpowered, very fast though, Paper can do that origami shapeshifting thing, but its a gimmick at best.
Overall, I'd say rock needs to be nerfed, and paper needs a boost, scissors is the only balanced one. I myself use Paper cause I like the accuracy and Its cool to be a rebel.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The Holy Trinity Synergy (Tank, DPS, Support) is there for bigger challenges where none of the classes can Solo (Instances Raids etc)
But again, all of this is balanced around PvE. This is the meat and core of the Game.
WoW's PvP maybe popular but the game was never made or "balanced" around PvP.
I enjoyed WoW in Vanilla, both of its PVE and PvP, then from Burning Crusade onward PvP went downhill..completely.. with gear segregation and PvP specific stats etc..it all became more convoluted and trivial.
The only real improvement was PVE from BC onward, but still, we do not mention this because it is the core of the game. WoW is a PVE game, ye, even if it has PvP servers, it changes not the core of what the game is and how the game is primarily balanced against.
In either case, if you really want a solution to the problem,. Throw the whole class system in the garbage..end of problem.
Class based games are not suitable for PvP. An Open Ended Skill based system, is more suitable and auto balancing.
The classes in WoW do not have to be balanced for PvP. They are there for other reasons which you did not include in your analysis. The classes are there to offer variety to players, from a Role Playing Perspective too. Which constitutes a qualitative basis of measure and not a quantitative. Not everything is about Numbers. Not everything is about Rationality. As humans beings we also have emotions and we do make decisions with them as well.
When a person chooses to play a Mage they do so because it feels good to play the role of a Mage..they do not take out the calculator and start calculating the DPS versus Mitigation ratio compared to other classes or in specific Raids and Instances.
As a result, the designers of WoW do not need to make sure that the Mage class is balanced in comparison to other classes in PvP, the core of the Game is PVE and as such the only thing they need to make sure is that the Mage class is capable of leveling top the end game and has a role to play in groups versus the Environment. That is it.
The rest is all player decisions.
Cheers!
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ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
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On top of this, if the game has a trinity system and a lot of dungeons, the game may end up with a shortage of players wanting to play one role or a prejudice against certain classes joining dungeon groups. So the devs might give a 5% loot bonus to the shortage class to make it more appealing to play, while the prejudiced-against class might get a group buff ability and lowered aggro to make it work better in dungeon groups.
If i were to make an MMO, I honestly would only balance some of the classes in the layer A, B, and C system and then have other classes which are more varied but can do other things well.
I'd make classes purposefully suck at DPS and mitigation but my god would they be amazing in certain situations or when well protected.
I'm okay with certain classes being played a ton more than others. I'm okay with classes being soloable and some aren't, just let the player know before choosing. For example, I'd make a class with low mitigation and low DPS . . . a type of healer . . .but they are the only ones that can resurrect people and perform 1 on 1 healing perhaps.
They suck by themselves, but every guild would want to have one. They'd be a rare commodity within the community which would be fun to be a wanted commodity. Another class I'd make would be a wizard, in which the DPS is insanely high but the mitigation is worse than zero. But the crux is that the wizard's spells may take 30 seconds to 2 minutes to cast and can't be interrupted.
But their DPS would be like 5x of anything, but if you can't protect them, they are useless.
My two cents. Balance is important to me, but not that much. I'd make a hybrid system of balance, where the pure and hybrid classes would relatively be balanced but my other classes would purposely not be.
Cryomatrix
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The system illustrated in the OP is standard Pen And Paper class design and balancing. I don’t know what exactly Blizzard does, but I do know they have a design document that spells out something along these same lines. They will have formulas and techniques for design and testing. The imbalance comes from players and their playstyle and always will.
Tanks that spec damage and criticality rather than defense will be imbalanced.
DPS are designed to be low to medium defense and always will. They will not be granted Max Armour no matter how much or how long they cry.
Healers that spec damage and criticality rather than healing and damage mitigation will be imbalanced.
I don't have to address Hybrid because they are designed to be 70% of a pure class, but like the pure classes they players spec them for damage. Like most PvP players do. Be it by gear or talent tree, PvPers choose damage over all else.These are all imbalances caused by play style and not design error. What is broken are the players, not the game.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
About anything.
True mathematical balance and player satisfaction are two completely different things.